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henry_krinkle
07-01-2012, 03:56 AM
This hasn't happened to me, but I'm still worried if it does:

I started querying agents about my novel around June 23rd. I queried about 20. So far, about 15 have gotten back to me with rejections, and I have yet to hear from the other 5. I'm considering self-publishing the book as an e-book on amazon, but I'm worried that one of the 5 I haven't heard from yet will get back to me the day after I publish it and request a partial.

(I doubt that this would happen, but if it did, what would you do?)

merrihiatt
07-01-2012, 04:15 AM
I'd wait to hear back from the other five before self-publishing. In the meantime, though, I'd format the book, review it again, create the cover, write the blurb/description and work on my plan of action to promote the title. I'd also start writing my next book.

Sometimes the rush to self-publish quickly takes over and we feel like the title has to be posted NOW! There is time. That feeling that you might be losing sales for each day your book isn't available is a whole lot of hooey. You and your book deserve the time to pursue all your options.

I know it isn't easy to wait, but sometimes waiting is the very best thing to do in a given situation.

Good luck!

henry_krinkle
07-01-2012, 04:28 AM
I'd wait to hear back from the other five before self-publishing. In the meantime, though, I'd format the book, review it again, create the cover, write the blurb/description and work on my plan of action to promote the title. I'd also start writing my next book.

Sometimes the rush to self-publish quickly takes over and we feel like the title has to be posted NOW! There is time. That feeling that you might be losing sales for each day your book isn't available is a whole lot of hooey. You and your book deserve the time to pursue all your options.

I know it isn't easy to wait, but sometimes waiting is the very best thing to do in a given situation.

Good luck!


I know waiting is the best option. But I feel like the wait will be unusually long or I won't hear back at all. This week is basically a write-off with the 4th of July, so I most likely won't hear anything this week. I think I'm gonna wait till August or publish the book before I begin my Master's degree at the very latest.

robertbevan
07-01-2012, 09:35 AM
also... why did you stop at twenty queries? if you'd really prefer to go the trade route, then you should probably be sending off something like ten times that amount of queries. of course, you still want to research each agent and personalize each letter, but you're going to have more success with a shotgun than you are with a sniper rifle.

Terie
07-01-2012, 09:58 AM
This hasn't happened to me, but I'm still worried if it does:

I started querying agents about my novel around June 23rd. I queried about 20. So far, about 15 have gotten back to me with rejections, and I have yet to hear from the other 5. I'm considering self-publishing the book as an e-book on amazon, but I'm worried that one of the 5 I haven't heard from yet will get back to me the day after I publish it and request a partial.

(I doubt that this would happen, but if it did, what would you do?)

Commercial publishing is a slow business. It takes months and months to hear back from agents and publishers. Even if an agent takes you on, it'll be months or years before you get a book contract, and if that happens, it'll be years before the book hits the shelves. You've been at it for just over a week.

If what you want is a commercial publishing deal, you need to step away from self-publishing now, learn patience, and go through the process. Self-publishing isn't usually a route to a commercial deal. The stories you hear in the news are exceptional...that's WHY they're in the news.

If what you want is to self-publish, then forget about the commercial publishing process and focus your energy on self-publishing. It requires a ton of work, and you don't need any extra distractions and worries.

You can't do both with the same book. Decide what you really want, and follow that path.

Oh, and to answer your question, most agents will care that the book was self-published and decline to consider it further; some won't. So if what you want for this book is a commercial publishing deal, to self-publish it a mere week into a process that is likely to take years will probably be counterproductive.

That's why I say you need to decide what you really want to do.

Minwind
07-01-2012, 06:41 PM
If what you want is a commercial publishing deal, you need to step away from self-publishing now, learn patience, and go through the process. Self-publishing isn't usually a route to a commercial deal. The stories you hear in the news are exceptional...that's WHY they're in the news.

If what you want is to self-publish, then forget about the commercial publishing process and focus your energy on self-publishing. It requires a ton of work, and you don't need any extra distractions and worries.

You can't do both with the same book. Decide what you really want, and follow that path.


There are more and more people making the jump...h.p.mallory, Michael j. Sullivan, Anthony Ryan, even Hugh Howey took a deal from random house (uk only...he's keeping his US stuff self published.) Amazon has also trad published a lot of self-pub people. I'm not saying the op should not pick a path and stick with it...but I'm also saying that doing both isn't impossible.

shadowwalker
07-01-2012, 06:52 PM
There are more and more people making the jump...h.p.mallory, Michael j. Sullivan, Anthony Ryan, even Hugh Howey took a deal from random house (uk only...he's keeping his US stuff self published.) Amazon has also trad published a lot of self-pub people. I'm not saying the op should not pick a path and stick with it...but I'm also saying that doing both isn't impossible.

It's not impossible if you have a solid - and that's really solid - record of sales behind you. For a book that's already been self-published by a brand new author - astronomical sales. So this goes into that "Yeah, anything's possible - but what's probable?" category.

Terie
07-01-2012, 07:04 PM
There are more and more people making the jump...h.p.mallory, Michael j. Sullivan, Anthony Ryan, even Hugh Howey took a deal from random house (uk only...he's keeping his US stuff self published.) Amazon has also trad published a lot of self-pub people. I'm not saying the op should not pick a path and stick with it...but I'm also saying that doing both isn't impossible.

I didn't say it's impossible. To quote myself: "Self-publishing isn't usually a route to a commercial deal. The stories you hear in the news are exceptional...that's WHY they're in the news."

There are undeniably some self-published authors whose work has been picked up by commercial publishers. But it's still a relative handful. That's why it's news: it's extremely exceptional.

Of the tens of thousands of books commercially published in the past 12 months, I'd be surprised if even 100 were originally self-published and subsequently picked up by a commercial publisher.

Or, to look at if from the other side, of the hundreds of thousands (possibly a million by now) books originally self-published in the past 12 months, I'd be surprised if even 100 were subsequently picked up by a commercial publisher.

I didn't tell the OP not to self-publish.

I told the OP to decide what he really wants, and then follow the path for that outcome.

As I said in another thread recently: Expecting to follow in the footsteps of mega-outliers is a bad plan.

Brian Rush
07-01-2012, 07:37 PM
This hasn't happened to me, but I'm still worried if it does:

I started querying agents about my novel around June 23rd. I queried about 20. So far, about 15 have gotten back to me with rejections, and I have yet to hear from the other 5. I'm considering self-publishing the book as an e-book on amazon, but I'm worried that one of the 5 I haven't heard from yet will get back to me the day after I publish it and request a partial.

(I doubt that this would happen, but if it did, what would you do?)

The decision to self-publish should be made on a basis other than because it's taking forever to trade publish. Basically, at this point you should self-publish ONLY if, after doing so, and you receive a request for a partial from one of those 5 agents, you are sure you would politely decline.

The legitimate reasons to self-publish are as follows:

1) At any given level of success, you'll make more money.

2) You'll have more control over the entire process, including editorial changes you may not agree with and the book cover etc.

3) You have a limitless window for success rather than the strictly limited time you have to get there if you trade-publish.

If those persuade you to self-publish, do it and don't worry about your agent queries that are still unanswered. If not, wait until you hear back from those 5 agents, sending them prompts if necessary.

willietheshakes
07-01-2012, 07:47 PM
The decision to self-publish should be made on a basis other than because it's taking forever to trade publish. Basically, at this point you should self-publish ONLY if, after doing so, and you receive a request for a partial from one of those 5 agents, you are sure you would politely decline.

The legitimate reasons to self-publish are as follows:

1) At any given level of success, you'll make more money.

2) You'll have more control over the entire process, including editorial changes you may not agree with and the book cover etc.

3) You have a limitless window for success rather than the strictly limited time you have to get there if you trade-publish.

If those persuade you to self-publish, do it and don't worry about your agent queries that are still unanswered. If not, wait until you hear back from those 5 agents, sending them prompts if necessary.

The OP is having a hard enough time without the misinformation and skewed perspective contained in this post, Brian Rush.

merrihiatt
07-01-2012, 07:54 PM
The decision to self-publish should be made on a basis other than because it's taking forever to trade publish. Basically, at this point you should self-publish ONLY if, after doing so, and you receive a request for a partial from one of those 5 agents, you are sure you would politely decline.

The legitimate reasons to self-publish are as follows:

1) At any given level of success, you'll make more money.

2) You'll have more control over the entire process, including editorial changes you may not agree with and the book cover etc.

3) You have a limitless window for success rather than the strictly limited time you have to get there if you trade-publish.

If those persuade you to self-publish, do it and don't worry about your agent queries that are still unanswered. If not, wait until you hear back from those 5 agents, sending them prompts if necessary.

How can one person decide what is a "legitimate" reason for someone else?

Brian Rush
07-01-2012, 07:55 PM
The OP is having a hard enough time without the misinformation and skewed perspective contained in this post, Brian Rush.

I basically told him that if he is still interested in trade publishing he shouldn't self-publish at this time. I suspect you agree with that, as it probably concurs with your own biases.

Brian Rush
07-01-2012, 07:56 PM
How can one person decide what is a "legitimate" reason for someone else?

Perhaps that was a poor choice of words. I just don't think someone should self-publish only because he gets rejections from a lot of agents. If you want to trade-publish that's what's going to happen in the beginning. It ain't easy no matter what road you take.

Old Hack
07-01-2012, 07:57 PM
There are more and more people making the jump...h.p.mallory, Michael j. Sullivan, Anthony Ryan, even Hugh Howey took a deal from random house (uk only...he's keeping his US stuff self published.) Amazon has also trad published a lot of self-pub people. I'm not saying the op should not pick a path and stick with it...but I'm also saying that doing both isn't impossible.

Minwind, you've caught hold of the wrong end of the stick. The OP wasn't asking whether he should self publish or not, he was asking what might happen if he did self publish and then heard from one of the publishers he's already submitted to.

It would help enormously if you'd try to remain on-topic. Thanks.


The legitimate reasons to self-publish are as follows:

1) At any given level of success, you'll make more money.

2) You'll have more control over the entire process, including editorial changes you may not agree with and the book cover etc.

3) You have a limitless window for success rather than the strictly limited time you have to get there if you trade-publish.

I'm uncomfortable with a part of your second point, Brian: editors suggest changes to writers, they don't force changes upon them. Writers with good publishers always have full editorial control, and are never made to change anything if they don't want to.

I'm not sure that self publishing vs trade publishing can be decided on a "which earns most" basis: I know a good few self publishers who would make a packet if they took the trade deals they've been offered, but they prefer not to.

And as few books are contracted for a couple of months only, this whole idea that there's always a very limited period of time during which your book will be able to sell is a dodgy one too. I agree that some books only get a few weeks on the bookshop shelf to prove themselves: but many books get a whole lot more time, and most books remain in print and available for a year or more.

Old Hack
07-01-2012, 08:24 PM
The OP is having a hard enough time without the misinformation and skewed perspective contained in this post, Brian Rush.

Agreed.


How can one person decide what is a "legitimate" reason for someone else?

Agreed.


I basically told him that if he is still interested in trade publishing he shouldn't self-publish at this time. I suspect you agree with that, as it probably concurs with your own biases.

I agree that "if he is still interested in trade publishing he shouldn't self-publish at this time", but I don't agree that that's what you told him; and I find your comment about biases unnecessarily provocative. You're swinging dangerously close to rudeness here, and I don't like it.


Perhaps that was a poor choice of words. I just don't think someone should self-publish only because he gets rejections from a lot of agents. If you want to trade-publish that's what's going to happen in the beginning. It ain't easy no matter what road you take.

It was a poor choice of words, and the advice you gave was flawed and misleading. However, I agree with what you've written here and I bet others do too, so shall we all move on?

Dungeon Geek
07-01-2012, 09:22 PM
Some agents never respond, Henry, so you could be waiting forever to hear back from them. I know this from experience and careful record keeping. If you self publish and an agent does respond with a request for a partial or full, your best bet is to be truthful and explain that you self-published the book and reveal how many copies it has sold. There is a chance the agent may then decline further business. But honesty is the best policy.

Beachgirl
07-01-2012, 09:35 PM
I started querying agents about my novel around June 23rd.

My first thought was :Wha:? The querrying process isn't something that you should expect to spend only a week on. Or a month. Or even a year. It can be a very long process.

I worry that you are going into trade publishing with very unrealistic expectations, which makes me wonder if you would have equally unrealistic expectations regarding self-publishing. It sounds like you may need to do some serious research about the realistic expectations and outcomes for both trade and self publishing - through unbiased channels (and contrary to certain opinions, AW really is a very unbiased source of information).

If being trade published is really where you want to be, I would hate to see you dump that dream due to misinformation about either process.

Daddyo
07-01-2012, 09:36 PM
I agree with robertbevan. Twenty queries is really too few. Maybe when you get up to a hundred and no one bites, then decide on an alternative route.

Old Hack
07-01-2012, 09:43 PM
My first thought was :Wha:? The querrying process isn't something that you should expect to spend only a week on. Or a month. Or even a year. It can be a very long process.

Yep.


I worry that you are going into trade publishing with very unrealistic expectations, which makes me wonder if you would have equally unrealistic expectations regarding self-publishing. It sounds like you may need to do some serious research about the realistic expectations and outcomes for both trade and self publishing - through unbiased channels (and contrary to certain opinions, AW really is a very unbiased source of information).

Yep.


If being trade published is really where you want to be, I would hate to see you dump that dream due to misinformation about either process.

Yep. And I'd add the caution that it's foolish to commit yourself to either route--self publishing or trade--without knowing the good and bad sides to both.


I agree with robertbevan. Twenty queries is really too few. Maybe when you get up to a hundred and no one bites, then decide on an alternative route.

Yep again.

evilrooster
07-01-2012, 09:51 PM
I'd wait to hear back from the other five before self-publishing. In the meantime, though, I'd format the book, review it again, create the cover, write the blurb/description and work on my plan of action to promote the title. I'd also start writing my next book.

Bolded an important thing there: whatever else you do, keep writing. Experience being what it is, the next book is likely to be better than this one in many ways. So if this fails, you're already moving on. And if it succeeds beyond your wildest dreams, and everyone's clamoring for more of your work, you're partway there. :)

Also, it gives you something to do apart from fuss too much about this book.

(Says the rooster who is studiously avoiding starting the next story she's committed to...)

EMaree
07-01-2012, 09:59 PM
20 queries isn't much at all when it comes to the agent submissions. If being commercially published is still something you want, keep submitting.

Agents can be an important part of your career even if you do decide to self-publish your book. Quite a few authors self-publish some works and commercially publish others, and they value their agent's input on both sides of their writing career. Chuck Wendig and Nicola Morgan come immediately to mind from things they've mentioned on their blogs.

lorna_w
07-01-2012, 10:16 PM
If I were you, I wouldn't worry.

If you want to self publish, do it.

henry_krinkle
07-02-2012, 03:29 AM
Some agents never respond, Henry, so you could be waiting forever to hear back from them. I know this from experience and careful record keeping. If you self publish and an agent does respond with a request for a partial or full, your best bet is to be truthful and explain that you self-published the book and reveal how many copies it has sold. There is a chance the agent may then decline further business. But honesty is the best policy.

This was the only response that answered my question directly. But the other responses were helpful too ;)

I think I'm going to wait a month and then self-publish because my book deals with a very topical subject (some might even say a "fad") and I feel it needs to be published as soon as possible. I think it has potential to be more profitable that way, since I have a series planned and I can build readership through strategic pricing and sequels. I also already have a cover page designed that looks quite eye-catching for the demographic. So I think my chances are good...but who knows?

Unimportant
07-02-2012, 04:03 AM
I think I'm going to wait a month and then self-publish because my book deals with a very topical subject (some might even say a "fad") and I feel it needs to be published as soon as possible.
If the book does need to be published ASAP, then, yes, self publishing is probaby your best option. It'd probably take a year at the very least to get an agent and then a publishing contract and then go through the whole commerial publishing process. If your book needs to hit the shelves now, not next year, then DIY is the only way it's going to realistically happen.

Katrina S. Forest
07-02-2012, 04:24 AM
Basically, at this point you should self-publish ONLY if, after doing so, and you receive a request for a partial from one of those 5 agents, you are sure you would politely decline.

Well, at that point, your only options would be to decline, to hide the fact that it's published and send it anyway (not a good idea), or to send it with a note that in the time the agent took to reply, you decided to self-publish (better than option 2, but probably won't come across nicely, especially if the agent responded in a very reasonable amount of time.)

Terie
07-02-2012, 09:21 AM
Some agents never respond, Henry, so you could be waiting forever to hear back from them. I know this from experience and careful record keeping. If you self publish and an agent does respond with a request for a partial or full, your best bet is to be truthful and explain that you self-published the book and reveal how many copies it has sold. There is a chance the agent may then decline further business. But honesty is the best policy.

This was the only response that answered my question directly.

Really? You mean, I didn't say this?


Oh, and to answer your question, most agents will care that the book was self-published and decline to consider it further; some won't. So if what you want for this book is a commercial publishing deal, to self-publish it a mere week into a process that is likely to take years will probably be counterproductive.


I think I'm going to wait a month and then self-publish.

I guess you didn't read my post at all, did you? You know, the part where I said commercial publishing is a process that takes years?

And that being the case, if you're so impatient to have your book 'out there' right away, what's the point of waiting another month before going forward with self-publishing? If you believe there's only a small time-frame for this book, waiting another month is just wasting a chunk of that small time.

henry_krinkle
07-02-2012, 09:05 PM
Really? You mean, I didn't say this?





I guess you didn't read my post at all, did you? You know, the part where I said commercial publishing is a process that takes years?

And that being the case, if you're so impatient to have your book 'out there' right away, what's the point of waiting another month before going forward with self-publishing? If you believe there's only a small time-frame for this book, waiting another month is just wasting a chunk of that small time.


Terie, relax. It appears you've taken offense to the fact I didn't acknowledge your original post. I wasn't trying to snub you. I appreciate your feedback regardless but my original question was, if an agent requested to read your book after it's already been published, what would you do? Dungeon_Geek answered that question. You did not.

And to answer your question, I'm going to wait a month with the faint hope that the agents I haven't heard from yet will get back to me. One of them sent me a rejection this morning, so just gotta hold off for the others. Also, I want to start work on a sequel, so this will give me some time.

Terie
07-02-2012, 09:17 PM
Terie, relax. It appears you've taken offense to the fact I didn't acknowledge your original post. I wasn't trying to snub you. I appreciate your feedback regardless but my original question was, if an agent requested to read your book after it's already been published, what would you do? Dungeon_Geek answered that question. You did not.

Well, I said pretty much the same thing Dungeon did, but whatever. (He didn't, in point of fact, state what he would do.)


And to answer your question, I'm going to wait a month with the faint hope that the agents I haven't heard from yet will get back to me. One of them sent me a rejection this morning, so just gotta hold off for the others. Also, I want to start work on a sequel, so this will give me some time.

But why? You said this earlier:


...because my book deals with a very topical subject (some might even say a "fad") and I feel it needs to be published as soon as possible.

Even if one of those last four agents requests a partial or a full, it would be months before you heard back with an offer or a rejection. If you got an offer, even if the agent didn't want you to do any more rewrites, it would be months to years more before you'd get an offer for publication -- if one came. And if one did, it would be another two years minimum before the book would hit the shelves.

So my question remains: Why, if you think the book needs to be out as soon as possible, are you bothering to wait to hear back from agents, when the very best case scenario possible would put your book on the shelves in two to three years minimum?

This is exactly why I said what I did earlier: You have to decide exactly what it is you want, and then pursue that path. And if exactly what you want is speed, self-publishing, not commercial publishing, is the option you should be pursuing.

ESKraay
07-02-2012, 09:21 PM
Don't worry about it and press on with Kindle. It took me 100 query letters to hook up with an agent on my first novel The Olympian: A Tale of Ancient Hellas in 2004. I was delighted, but two years later, he had not produced, and this gentleman is one of the big guns in NYC. We parted ways amicably. A friend suggested the self-publishing/POD route, and I pressed on with BookSurge/CreateSpace. That first novel still sells very well as a paperback and as an ebook. Frankly, the ebook outsells the hard copy approaching 10 to 1. I would recommend the Kindle route to anyone. Another unexpected benefit of the route I took with The Olympian: within one year I received an email out of the blue from a film producer and he optioned the film rights and has extended the option twice. A final note... a traditional publishing house contacted me about publishing the book, but they wanted me to re-write it as a 'philosophical' novel vs. the historical novel. I was greatly tempted, but I was happy with the book the way it was. I say go for it with Kindle, you'll never know all the good things that can happen until you do it.

Roger J Carlson
07-02-2012, 09:27 PM
You know, if it's been universally rejected there's always the possibility that the book really isn't ready for publication. You should at least consider the possibility.

So what happens if that is the case? (Let's just assume here for a minute.)

You won't be able to trade publish your sequel because few publishers will publish a sequel to a self-published book, so you're going to have to self-publish the entire series. If your real interest is trade publishing, you're pushing that off much farther into the future.

Even if your sequel is good enough to publish, because the first book in the series was not (remember, we're assuming that just for the moment), not many people will buy the second based on the first.

Now, I'm not saying that the book you're currently subbing is not publishable. But self-publishing before a book is really ready has consequence beyond the original book.

Something to consider, anyway.

Sheryl Nantus
07-02-2012, 09:32 PM
Sounds like you don't really know what you want to do.

Might be worth taking a break and figuring out what you want before rushing into anything.

*shrugs*

shadowwalker
07-02-2012, 09:37 PM
One thing to bear in mind is that even self-publishing, it's going to take time to get the word out; just getting the book itself 'out there' is only the beginning. If the story is that time sensitive, you may have a problem regardless of which route you go.

quicklime
07-02-2012, 09:42 PM
Sounds like you don't really know what you want to do.

Might be worth taking a break and figuring out what you want before rushing into anything.

*shrugs*


or what either side really offers.


Jim likes to say the folks who want to be published in the worst way possible often are. I think, Henry, you are headed down this route. One can usually do something quickly, or correctly, and you seem intent on the former, with no regard for the latter. That doesn't mean you shouldn't self-pub, but it seems you'd rather "get it out there" first, and then figure out what the hell you did, and what it means for you, your book, and your future, afterwards.

Old Hack
07-02-2012, 09:44 PM
Terie, relax.

Mr Krinkle. Please don't patronise people. It sets my teeth on edge and when that happens, I get grumpy and you really don't want to make that happen.


Don't worry about it and press on with Kindle ... A friend suggested the self-publishing/POD route, and I pressed on with BookSurge/CreateSpace. That first novel still sells very well as a paperback and as an ebook.

I'm glad that self-publishing has worked well for you but that doesn't mean it's the best choice for everyone.


I say go for it with Kindle, you'll never know all the good things that can happen until you do it.

I say investigate all your options and try to keep an open mind, and then you'll have a much better idea of what's likely to happen when you proceed.

henry_krinkle
07-02-2012, 09:45 PM
Sounds like you don't really know what you want to do.

Might be worth taking a break and figuring out what you want before rushing into anything.

*shrugs*


I will self-publish. Most of these comments have convinced me. I can't wait on it because, like many of you have said, it takes years to find an agent and a contract, and the topical nature of my book demands that it is published as soon as possible.

And Roger, thanks for bringing that up. But I do think my book is ready for publication. I really do. I will be publishing under a pseudonym anyway, so if it turns out that people hate it and it does not sell well, no harm done.

henry_krinkle
07-02-2012, 09:48 PM
or what either side really offers.


Jim likes to say the folks who want to be published in the worst way possible often are. I think, Henry, you are headed down this route. One can usually do something quickly, or correctly, and you seem intent on the former, with no regard for the latter. That doesn't mean you shouldn't self-pub, but it seems you'd rather "get it out there" first, and then figure out what the hell you did, and what it means for you, your book, and your future, afterwards.

Thanks for your concern, but this is untrue. I've been doing a lot of research these past few days. I have a cover designed by myself that I think will catch readers' eyes. I also have a promotion plan mapped out on blogging sites, etc.

Beachgirl
07-02-2012, 09:50 PM
I think I'm going to wait a month and then self-publish because my book deals with a very topical subject (some might even say a "fad") and I feel it needs to be published as soon as possible.

I'm seriously perplexed as to the type of story that could possibly have that short of a shelf life. You describe it like its got the lifespan of an average housefly. If it's truly that much of a "fad", then what's the point of a series? By the time you've written additional books they will be obsolete.

IMO, no story is outdated. It's the execution that matters. Otherwise, historical fiction wouldn't even be a genre.

henry_krinkle
07-02-2012, 09:52 PM
I'm seriously perplexed as to the type of story that could possibly have that short of a shelf life. You describe it like its got the lifespan of an average housefly. If it's truly that much of a "fad", then what's the point of a series? By the time you've written additional books they will be obsolete.

IMO, no story is outdated. It's the execution that matters. Otherwise, historical fiction wouldn't even be a genre.

lol I think I overstated just how topical my book is. I don't mean to say it needs to be published IMMEDIATELY. Just within a year. Or two.

EMaree
07-02-2012, 09:54 PM
It seems to me like you're already set on the self-publishing route, so good luck with whatever path you take. But all the advice in this thread is well intentioned and comes from a lot of experienced writers, so keep it in mind when making any decisions.

It's usually not worth worrying about 'running out of time' for a book, especially in the fiction market. Spend the time crafting the best book you possibly can instead.

EDIT: I just thought I'd mention that you already received some good info on self publishing as an option in your previous thread (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247961).

quicklime
07-02-2012, 09:54 PM
Thanks for your concern, but this is untrue. I've been doing a lot of research these past few days. I have a cover designed by myself that I think will catch readers' eyes. I also have a promotion plan mapped out on blogging sites, etc.



do you believe that's the timeline of ANYONE successful, in paper or electronic format?


as for "topical", I suppose you have a point; Primary Colors was pubbed like 2 years after the election, and the film came out later still, and they did horribly in terms of commercial success...other than the time they spend on bestseller lists


you can do as you like, but I can't see any case where half-ready is better simply because of timeliness. Any. and from your questions, it seems clear you don't understand all that much on pubbing in either format; the one advantage in that case goes to publishing through a house, where someoen can hold your hand....self-pubbing is a tough road, and certainly doesn't get easier by knowing less.

henry_krinkle
07-02-2012, 10:08 PM
do you believe that's the timeline of ANYONE successful, in paper or electronic format?


as for "topical", I suppose you have a point; Primary Colors was pubbed like 2 years after the election, and the film came out later still, and they did horribly in terms of commercial success...other than the time they spend on bestseller lists


you can do as you like, but I can't see any case where half-ready is better simply because of timeliness. Any. and from your questions, it seems clear you don't understand all that much on pubbing in either format; the one advantage in that case goes to publishing through a house, where someoen can hold your hand....self-pubbing is a tough road, and certainly doesn't get easier by knowing less.

This is a board dedicated to helping writers, right? I've been asking questions, and I've received very helpful answers. I have learned a lot, and I am convinced self-pubbing is the way to go for me.

And when did I ever say my book was "half-ready"?

Roger J Carlson
07-02-2012, 10:09 PM
And Roger, thanks for bringing that up. But I do think my book is ready for publication. I really do. I will be publishing under a pseudonym anyway, so if it turns out that people hate it and it does not sell well, no harm done.Well, I hope you'll let us know how it works for you.

henry_krinkle
07-02-2012, 10:10 PM
EDIT: I just thought I'd mention that you already received some good info on self publishing as an option in your previous thread (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247961).

Yes. That thread was locked because I apparently offended a lot of people with my views on marketing. Some others agreed with me though.

EMaree
07-02-2012, 10:13 PM
Yes. That thread was locked because I apparently offended a lot of people with my views on marketing. Some others agreed with me though.

Careful, Henry, this sounds a bit combative. That's not why the thread was locked -- the reasons why are clear in the final posts.

quicklime
07-02-2012, 10:13 PM
This is a board dedicated to helping writers, right? I've been asking questions, and I've received very helpful answers. I have learned a lot, and I am convinced self-pubbing is the way to go for me.

And when did I ever say my book was "half-ready"?

that is true, but to get to the conclusions you are getting to you're doing an awful lot of cherry-picking within the well of advice you refer to, Henry.

best of luck,
Quick

Sheryl Nantus
07-02-2012, 10:15 PM
This is a board dedicated to helping writers, right? I've been asking questions, and I've received very helpful answers. I have learned a lot, and I am convinced self-pubbing is the way to go for me.

And when did I ever say my book was "half-ready"?

You've figured it all out with less than a hundred posts, total, on this board.

There's people here with literally thousands still learning the ins and outs of the industry.

Best of luck to you.

henry_krinkle
07-02-2012, 10:17 PM
Careful, Henry, this sounds a bit combative. That's not why the thread was locked -- the reasons why are clear in the final posts.


My final response came across as rude, but it was not intended to be. I simply meant that the debate was fun. I will admit there was a fair bit of snarkiness in my posts, but so were others.

henry_krinkle
07-02-2012, 10:27 PM
You've figured it all out with less than a hundred posts, total, on this board.

There's people here with literally thousands still learning the ins and outs of the industry.

Best of luck to you.

I didn't realize I needed to reach a specific quota of posts before I could come to a conclusion.

A lot of the posts confirmed some of my own beliefs about self-pubbing, so it was easier to come to a conclusion faster. I will keep you all posted on how things work out!

mccardey
07-02-2012, 10:31 PM
My final response came across as rude, but it was not intended to be.

You'll want to be careful of your words then. Since this is a writers' board...

Old Hack
07-02-2012, 10:35 PM
I do think my book is ready for publication. I really do. I will be publishing under a pseudonym anyway, so if it turns out that people hate it and it does not sell well, no harm done.

First of all, Henry, publishing under a pseudonym won't guarantee that no one will be able to connect the book with you. It's very easy to find out the real person behind the pseudonym, and you really can't rely on this to keep your name separate from your book.

Second: if you think there's a chance that you might need this separation, that suggests to me that you aren't actually confident that your book is ready for publication.

And third: now that you've got your fifty posts why don't you post an extract of your book in Share Your Work? Or perhaps your query letter? That way we can see for ourselves how close to publication you really are, and you might benefit from the feedback you receive.

henry_krinkle
07-02-2012, 10:40 PM
First of all, Henry, publishing under a pseudonym won't guarantee that no one will be able to connect the book with you. It's very easy to find out the real person behind the pseudonym, and you really can't rely on this to keep your name separate from your book.

Second: if you think there's a chance that you might need this separation, that suggests to me that you aren't actually confident that your book is ready for publication.

And third: now that you've got your fifty posts why don't you post an extract of your book in Share Your Work? Or perhaps your query letter? That way we can see for ourselves how close to publication you really are, and you might benefit from the feedback you receive.

First: Yes, my work can still be connected to me. But I will not do anything that will make it obvious who I really am.

Second: The reason I am using a pseudonym is not because I'm embarrassed of my work. As I mentioned in another thread, my work is quite vulgar, and I am currently studying to be a psychotherapist. I would hate for one of my future patients to discover me online and say, "My psychotherapist wrote this? Dear Lord I am in awful hands!"

Third: I could share my work. But I feel like this would be counter-productive considering that I have now come to the conclusion that I will self-publish lol

Beachgirl
07-02-2012, 10:44 PM
My final response came across as rude, but it was not intended to be. I simply meant that the debate was fun. I will admit there was a fair bit of snarkiness in my posts, but so were others.

Snarkiness was not why that thread was closed. Lots of us get snarky. I can cite 3 reasons, off the top of my head, as to why that thread closed.

1. Never call another writer "bad". Rule Number 1: Respect your fellow writer.

2. Never come on a writer board and claim words, writing, prose don't matter.

3. Never, ever, ever tell a moderator "whatever". Ever.

It seems you had your mind made up as to what you were going to do before you ever posted anything and were just looking for confirmation, so you have done some serious cherry-picking to back up your conclusion. I hate to see anyone make a decision that may hurt their future prospects, but I wish you luck all the same. I hope you achieve whatever success you're aspiring to.

henry_krinkle
07-02-2012, 10:56 PM
Snarkiness was not why that thread was closed. Lots of us get snarky. I can cite 3 reasons, off the top of my head, as to why that thread closed.

1. Never call another writer "bad". Rule Number 1: Respect your fellow writer.

2. Never come on a writer board and claim words, writing, prose don't matter.

3. Never, ever, ever tell a moderator "whatever". Ever.



Numbers 1 and 2 are poor reasons to close a thread, in my honest opinion.

I never called any writer on AW bad. I called Stephenie Meyer and E.L. James bad, and even then, I praised their marketing strategies. It was their prose I took issue with (And I'm not the only one).

And number 2 is my opinion, which I backed up with Stephenie Meyer and E.L. James. I fail to see how expressing one's opinion on a message board is grounds for locking a thread. It might be controversial, but so what? This isn't Soviet Russia.


It seems you had your mind made up as to what you were going to do before you ever posted anything and were just looking for confirmation, so you have done some serious cherry-picking to back up your conclusion. I hate to see anyone make a decision that may hurt their future prospects, but I wish you luck all the same. I hope you achieve whatever success you're aspiring to.

Wow, this comes across as awfully snarky. I get the impression that you think I am destined for failure... Thanks for your kind words!

Dungeon Geek
07-02-2012, 10:59 PM
Henry, since you're about to be new to self publishing, I suggest starting with the excellent Smashwords Style Guide, which you can find on the website. I also suggest hiring an editor or at least having a few people look it over (unless your editing skills are on a professional level). Also, unless you're a skilled artist, get some professional cover art to make your book stand out from the crowd. Readers tend to skim over books with shoddy covers. And your blurb on the product page is very important. Make it as easy to read, straight to the point, and as compelling as possible.

quicklime
07-02-2012, 10:59 PM
First: Yes, my work can still be connected to me. But I will not do anything that will make it obvious who I really am.

Second: The reason I am using a pseudonym is not because I'm embarrassed of my work. As I mentioned in another thread, my work is quite vulgar, and I am currently studying to be a psychotherapist. I would hate for one of my future patients to discover me online and say, "My psychotherapist wrote this? Dear Lord I am in awful hands!"

Third: I could share my work. But I feel like this would be counter-productive considering that I have now come to the conclusion that I will self-publish lol



so....

1. you have a week to wait for an agent, but no time to sub to the syw forum

2. you asked for advice, got it, and used virtually none of it.

3. you continue with defensive, passive-aggressive bits like claiming not to know why your other thread was closed, other than possibly because you "had an opinion" and the comment about needing a specific post count to draw a conculsion...while still seeking advice

you know, a guy with a spot of training in psychoanalysis might conclude you are defensive because you already know what you'll hear in SYW, and in your heart of hearts, you know this isn't ready for prime-time...maybe...if he had any psych training.

I don't have any formal psych training, so I'm just predicting a flounce, instead of anything related to the above....

Katrina S. Forest
07-02-2012, 11:00 PM
I could share my work. But I feel like this would be counter-productive considering that I have now come to the conclusion that I will self-publish lol

Huh? Why would this be counter-productive? You want your work to be as good as possible, no matter what publication route you take.

I get why posting your query letter wouldn't make any sense, though. Is that what you meant?

Beachgirl
07-02-2012, 11:12 PM
Wow, this comes across as awfully snarky. I get the impression that you think I am destined for failure... Thanks for your kind words!

It wasn't meant to be snarky at all. I truly do wish you the best of luck. And no, I don't believe you are destined to failure. Sorry you took it that way. I do, however, think you might be rushing headfirst into something you may not know as much about as you think you do and that will affect your success. I hope I'm wrong - I really do. Its JMO based on what I've read so far and I am absolutely not opposed to admit it if I'm wrong.

henry_krinkle
07-02-2012, 11:26 PM
I get why posting your query letter wouldn't make any sense, though. Is that what you meant?

Yes.

shadowwalker
07-02-2012, 11:29 PM
We seem to be running into a few people who ask for advice/info but already have their minds made up.

Something in the air? :Shrug:

Sheryl Nantus
07-02-2012, 11:30 PM
I'm sort of chuckling over the "vulgar" part. As if many of us in this forum haven't seen/written/read such things.

Vulgar and "topical". Should be interesting to guess the title when this hits the virtual stands.

:)

henry_krinkle
07-02-2012, 11:35 PM
so....

1. you have a week to wait for an agent, but no time to sub to the syw forum

2. you asked for advice, got it, and used virtually none of it.

3. you continue with defensive, passive-aggressive bits like claiming not to know why your other thread was closed, other than possibly because you "had an opinion" and the comment about needing a specific post count to draw a conculsion...while still seeking advice

you know, a guy with a spot of training in psychoanalysis might conclude you are defensive because you already know what you'll hear in SYW, and in your heart of hearts, you know this isn't ready for prime-time...maybe...if he had any psych training.

I don't have any formal psych training, so I'm just predicting a flounce, instead of anything related to the above....

Quicklime, why do you sound so hostile in this post? I don't appreciate you questioning my training in psychology. Honestly, what was the point of that? If you must know, I have a B.Sc. in Psychology and I am beginning a Master's in September. But I shouldn't have to explain myself in the face of condescension. I'd prefer if you kept your Freudian 101 analysis to yourself. Thanks.

"2. you asked for advice, got it, and used virtually none of it."

How have I used none of it? I already claimed it's been helpful, and has convinced me to self-publish.

henry_krinkle
07-02-2012, 11:36 PM
I'm sort of chuckling over the "vulgar" part. As if many of us in this forum haven't seen/written/read such things.

Vulgar and "topical". Should be interesting to guess the title when this hits the virtual stands.

:)

LOL. I promise you'll get a good laugh when you see the title!

evilrooster
07-02-2012, 11:41 PM
Numbers 1 and 2 are poor reasons to close a thread, in my honest opinion.

Thank you for sharing.


I never called any writer on AW bad. I called Stephenie Meyer and E.L. James bad

I hope you're keeping careful track of who is and is not on Absolute Write. I hope you've scried through all of the pseudonyms, unpicked all the anonymous IDs, and done very careful research.

Because you don't know who is and is not on this forum. There are a lot of people here, some quite prominent in publishing, some who have sold a heck of a lot of books, some whom you've not only heard of, but quite probably admired.

I don't know if Meyer or James is, has been, or might one day be on AW. And I'm a mod here. How come you think you do?


And number 2 is my opinion, which I backed up with Stephenie Meyer and E.L. James. I fail to see how expressing one's opinion on a message board is grounds for locking a thread.Well, go ahead and start your own message board where people can express all of their opinions, no matter how disrespectful of others.

I'll send hot dogs, marshmallows, and toasting forks.

Here on Absolute Write, the rule is to respect your fellow writers, whether or not they're on the board at this point in history. It's also a very good idea to acknowledge when a mod points out that you're in violation of the rules, apologize, and learn to do better.

It is not a good idea to just complain that it was a stupid rule anyway, then turn back to sucking as much useful information as you can out of the kind, helpful people here. It's not nearly as cute or clever as you seem to think it is.

If you're a member of this community, and get the benefits from it, you obey the rules. It's really not that complicated.


It might be controversial, but so what? This isn't Soviet Russia.No, it's a privately run server being paid for by someone who hasn't charged you a dime, but has simply requested that you follow a few simple rules.

My sincere suggestion to you is that you begin to do so immediately and with good grace.

henry_krinkle
07-02-2012, 11:50 PM
I hope you're keeping careful track of who is and is not on Absolute Write. I hope you've scried through all of the pseudonyms, unpicked all the anonymous IDs, and done very careful research.

Because you don't know who is and is not on this forum. There are a lot of people here, some quite prominent in publishing, some who have sold a heck of a lot of books, some whom you've not only heard of, but quite probably admired.

I don't know if Meyer or James is, has been, or might one day be on AW. And I'm a mod here. How come you think you do?

Well, go ahead and start your own message board where people can express all of their opinions, no matter how disrespectful of others.

I'll send hot dogs, marshmallows, and toasting forks.

Here on Absolute Write, the rule is to respect your fellow writers, whether or not they're on the board at this point in history. It's also a very good idea to acknowledge when a mod points out that you're in violation of the rules, apologize, and learn to do better.

It is not a good idea to just complain that it was a stupid rule anyway, then turn back to sucking as much useful information as you can out of the kind, helpful people here. It's not nearly as cute or clever as you seem to think it is.

If you're a member of this community, and get the benefits from it, you obey the rules. It's really not that complicated.

No, it's a privately run server being paid for by someone who hasn't charged you a dime, but has simply requested that you follow a few simple rules.

My sincere suggestion to you is that you begin to do so immediately and with good grace.

You speak as though Stephenie Meyer and E.L. James would take personal offense to my criticisms of their prose. These authors have sold millions of books and have millions of fans. Their books have also prompted millions of bad reviews. I think they can handle the opinion of some Nobody on a message board. Otherwise, they picked the wrong career path.

I won't argue with your other points though. I will exercise discretion in my future posts.

evilrooster
07-02-2012, 11:58 PM
You speak as though Stephenie Meyer and E.L. James would take personal offense to my criticisms of their prose. These authors have sold millions of books and have millions of fans. Their books have also prompted millions of bad reviews. I think they can handle the opinion of some Nobody on a message board. Otherwise, they picked the wrong career path.

There are other reasons to respect your fellow writer than just in case they get offended. It's not a good tone to set in the conversation, for one thing. Discussions that include sneering at people are, quite simply, rarely as interesting, productive or informative as ones that don't.

Food for thought.


I won't argue with your other points though. I will exercise discretion in my future posts.Thank you.

Goldenleaves
07-03-2012, 12:23 AM
I'd say go right on ahead. Self publish. That's my opinion.

Maryn
07-03-2012, 12:54 AM
[Maryn puts both hands over her mouth for a very good reason.]

James D. Macdonald
07-03-2012, 01:40 AM
Third: I could share my work. But I feel like this would be counter-productive considering that I have now come to the conclusion that I will self-publish lol

Indeed. Why would someone who has decided to "self-publish" want his works to be "well-written"?

henry_krinkle
07-03-2012, 01:50 AM
[Maryn puts both hands over her mouth for a very good reason.]

Am I missing something? Please share.


Indeed. Why would someone who has decided to "self-publish" want his works to be "well-written"?

James, it's not that I don't value the SYW critiques. I'm just more comfortable editing the novel myself. Publishing excerpts of a novel on a message board is, in my opinion, a very dangerous thing, and I'd be concerned about plagiarism. I'm not saying that anyone on this board would plagiarize, I'm just saying that by not sharing my work, I am afforded a level of comfort I wouldn't have if I did otherwise.

Unimportant
07-03-2012, 02:25 AM
Publishing excerpts of a novel on a message board is, in my opinion, a very dangerous thing, and I'd be concerned about plagiarism. I'm not saying that anyone on this board would plagiarize, I'm just saying that by not sharing my work, I am afforded a level of comfort I wouldn't have if I did otherwise.
If it would make you uncomfortable then you certainly shouldn't do it!

But, nonetheless, you'd be very welcome to participate in the ShareYourWork subforum. A writer who can craft prose of a quality that would attract plagiarists would likely excel at spotting faults in other people's prose. If you're looking for a way to 'pay back' the support and advice that James and Old Hack and the other industry professionals here have given you, critiquing other AW members' stories in SYW might do the trick! ;-)

quicklime
07-03-2012, 03:02 AM
Am I missing something? Please share.



James, it's not that I don't value the SYW critiques. I'm just more comfortable editing the novel myself. Publishing excerpts of a novel on a message board is, in my opinion, a very dangerous thing, and I'd be concerned about plagiarism. I'm not saying that anyone on this board would plagiarize, I'm just saying that by not sharing my work, I am afforded a level of comfort I wouldn't have if I did otherwise.


add

1. the notion self-editing is invariably better than fresh eyes, as well as

2. the "steal your work" fallacy, to the list of fundamental misunderstandins it would really, really behoove you to sort out before you just toss this thing into the electronic wastebasket.

henry_krinkle
07-03-2012, 03:24 AM
add

1. the notion self-editing is invariably better than fresh eyes, as well as

2. the "steal your work" fallacy, to the list of fundamental misunderstandins it would really, really behoove you to sort out before you just toss this thing into the electronic wastebasket.

I ask again, What is your problem? First, you insinuate I was lying about my psychology background, and now you're using phrases like "toss this thing into the electronic wastebasket."

"1. the notion self-editing is invariably better than fresh eyes"

This is not what I said. I said I feel uncomfortable posting my book on a message board for the world to see. As a writer, I think that is a legitimate concern that I have a right to have. Plagiarism can happen.

Who are you anyway? Are you successful? I hope so, because otherwise, your holier than thou lecturing would be sort of ironic.

BenPanced
07-03-2012, 03:45 AM
:Thumbs: Yup. Stay klassy.

quicklime
07-03-2012, 03:58 AM
I'm an abject failure...or something similar--that's for you to decide I guess. Many others in this thread who have told you the same things are not, including James just upthread...

nobody, including myself, is trying to wreck your career; we're trying to stop you from doing so. If it helps, you can take solace in the fact your lack of interest in such efforts IS slowly getting through. But folks WERE here to help.

henry_krinkle
07-03-2012, 04:04 AM
I'm an abject failure...or something similar--that's for you to decide I guess. Many others in this thread who have told you the same things are not, including James just upthread...

nobody, including myself, is trying to wreck your career; we're trying to stop you from doing so. If it helps, you can take solace in the fact your lack of interest in such efforts IS slowly getting through. But folks WERE here to help.

Huh? I realize folks are here to help me, and I am grateful. What I am ungrateful for, is you making arrogant and completely unfounded remarks about my psychology background, and then suggesting that my book is headed for the "electronic wastebasket".

If you want to help me, don't be an arrogant fool about it. Thanks.

Dungeon Geek
07-03-2012, 04:28 AM
Well, getting some crit action isn't a bad idea. I used to hang out on Critters, and I learned some things that helped elevate me to the professional level. While it's true that not all critiques are helpful, you can really learn about what people like and what might be turning them off. For example, I posted one story where 10 people told me the main character was annoying. Guess what? The main character was annoying, and I was the only one who didn't see it.

G. Applejack
07-03-2012, 04:46 AM
Yeah. Based on what I've seen on this thread, you should totally go the self-publishing route. Let us know how that works out for you.

Unimportant
07-03-2012, 04:54 AM
I ask again, What is your problem? First, you insinuate I was lying about my psychology background, and now you're using phrases like "toss this thing into the electronic wastebasket."

"1. the notion self-editing is invariably better than fresh eyes"

This is not what I said. I said I feel uncomfortable posting my book on a message board for the world to see. As a writer, I think that is a legitimate concern that I have a right to have. Plagiarism can happen.

Who are you anyway? Are you successful? I hope so, because otherwise, your holier than thou lecturing would be sort of ironic.

Taking them backwards: Posting in ShareYourWork on AW isn't "for all the world to see"; it's a password protected area, so only AW members can access the posts there.

The gurus here at AW have seen many hundreds of writers rush into self publishing with detrimental results. Not every good writer is also a good editor, and not every good editor is capable of editing his own prose as well as other people's. So, most self-publishing authors do benefit from getting external feedback on their prose before they put it up for sale. And many self-publishing authors don't have the sales successes they hope for because they go into it under-educated or under-prepared.

The folks here are trying to help you. It seems odd that you'd trust the people here enough to ask their advice and to ask for specifics on agent response times etc, but not trust them to look at your prose without stealing it.

Dungeon Geek
07-03-2012, 05:00 AM
Henry, it's very rare for critique samples to get stolen. Plagiarists don't want works in progress. It's probably much easier just to download a free, complete e-book and steal the material or what have you. I wouldn't worry about it.

J. Tanner
07-03-2012, 05:48 AM
Agreed. The odds of something like theft happening are so astronomically low as to be a complete non-concern. On the other hand, self-publishing something that has not been read by a reasonably objective outsider or two (or four!) pre-publication is one of the bigger mistakes a newer writer can make. Heck, get 10 pre-publication opinions if you can...

SYW is one good option for that, but there are many others if there's something specifically problematic about AWs method. Still, when a writer doesn't want his work read through something like SYW I have to admit it worries me (on said writer's behalf). There seems to be more going on than the writer is sharing.

BenPanced
07-03-2012, 05:50 AM
The odds are so low, it hits the news when it does happen.

Unimportant
07-03-2012, 08:10 AM
I've never seen a case of plagiarism of an unpublished work. Have you, BenPanced?

Terie
07-03-2012, 08:10 AM
No, it's a privately run server being paid for by someone who hasn't charged you a dime, but has simply requested that you follow a few simple rules.

My sincere suggestion to you is that you begin to do so immediately and with good grace.I will exercise discretion in my future posts.


If you want to help me, don't be an arrogant fool about it. Thanks.

Sigh.

henry_krinkle
07-03-2012, 08:38 AM
Terie, I'm a little confused as to why you chose to highlight my two quotes as if they were contradictory. My second quote was in response to Quicklime's rude posts. Why not highlight Quicklime's posts? He's the one at fault, not me.

henry_krinkle
07-03-2012, 08:42 AM
SYW is one good option for that, but there are many others if there's something specifically problematic about AWs method. Still, when a writer doesn't want his work read through something like SYW I have to admit it worries me (on said writer's behalf). There seems to be more going on than the writer is sharing.

I thank you for your concern but I can assure you, there's nothing sinister going on that I'm not sharing. I just don't want to publish my novel on a message board. Why is that so difficult to understand? I would think writers, of all people, would understand why I would feel uncomfortable with that. Some are okay with it. I am not. If I want someone to edit it, I'll share it with them in person. It's a personal preference. Do we really need to dwell on it any longer? I feel like I'm being attacked because I do not want to share my work.

henry_krinkle
07-03-2012, 08:43 AM
I daresay a mod will set you straight soon.

Set me straight? For what? Falling victim to Quicklime's insults? I'm astonished that you have yet to mention Quicklime.

BenPanced
07-03-2012, 09:10 AM
I've never seen a case of plagiarism of an unpublished work. Have you, BenPanced?
Nope. When somebody plagiarizes another's work, it's always, always, always from something that's been published already. Plagiarizing something that's unpublished is too much work.

Old Hack
07-03-2012, 09:12 AM
Henry.

You're new here, and perhaps you don't realise how seriously we take this stuff:


Who are you anyway? Are you successful? I hope so, because otherwise, your holier than thou lecturing would be sort of ironic.


Huh? I realize folks are here to help me, and I am grateful. What I am ungrateful for, is you making arrogant and completely unfounded remarks about my psychology background, and then suggesting that my book is headed for the "electronic wastebasket".

If you want to help me, don't be an arrogant fool about it. Thanks.

You can't claim to be ignorant of our One Rule, because it's been pointed out to you in this very thread:


Snarkiness was not why that thread was closed. Lots of us get snarky. I can cite 3 reasons, off the top of my head, as to why that thread closed.

1. Never call another writer "bad". Rule Number 1: Respect your fellow writer.

That means no name-calling, for a start. See that bit up there where you called Quicklime an "arrogant fool"? That, right there, is one place where you went too far and I'm tempted to give you a short ban for it.

But I'm not going to because you were being spoken to from every direction, and I can see how this thread might have felt like a bit of a pile-on to you.

Because of that pile-on, and because it's clear you're not listening to a single word of the good advice that you've received here which means that we're all wasting our time trying to help you, I'm going to close this thread now. If you, Henry, would like me to reopen it so that this discussion can continue then send me a PM and I'll do it straight away.

Please note, Henry, that you have now used up your chances with me and the next time I see you being rude to anyone here I'll slap a time-out on you without a second thought.

And in future, if you don't want advice, then don't ask for it. I won't have you wasting everyone's time like this again. I strongly suggest that you start no more new threads anywhere on AW for a couple of weeks (apart from in Share Your Work, which I think you'd find very helpful).

MacAllister
07-03-2012, 10:02 AM
Actually, Old Hack is soooo much nicer than I am.

Henry, you're all noise and no signal.

You're also all finished sucking up resources for your own lulz here. Good luck elsewhere on the web, but clearly AW can't help you, nor do you really want us to.