"I Hope They Ain't Black" moments...

nighttimer · Jun 25, 2012

This is a rant. Sorry about that. :rant:

If you're Black have you ever heard about some awful crime and thought to yourself, "I hope they ain't Black."

I read about this story today and as my blood boiled, my heart sank:

DENVER -- A Denver police officer trying to break up a confrontation was shot and killed Sunday at a city park where hundreds of families had gathered for a free weekly jazz concert before gunfire erupted and sent hundreds fleeing.

The officer, who was shot in the head, was taken to a hospital where she was pronounced dead, police spokesman Sonny Jackson said. The Denver Post reported that one person has been taken into custody but added they had not been confirmed as a suspect.
NBC News station KUSA reported that officers were seen searching a dumpster near a lake on Sunday night.

According to the newspaper, the slain officer was a single mother who was originally from Detroit. She was a seven-year veteran of the police force, the Post reported.

At least three shots were fired shortly after the jazz band playing on a lake-side pavilion stage finished, sending waves of people running through park grounds where some concert-goers who were initially unaware of the shooting remained seated on picnic blankets and lawn chairs.

Goddammit, why do these gun-toting, mouth-breathing, loser assholes always have to mess up everything.

That was my initial thought.

Then I read more through the story looking for hints of the race of the cop and the shooter. There were no names, but mentioning the slain officer was a single-mother from Detroit sent up red flares.

Shit. I bet she's Black.

Nothing reveled the suspect's race until I found a follow-up story in the Denver Post:

A 21-year-old man with a clean criminal record in Colorado on Monday was advised he is being investigated for the murder of Denver Police Officer Celena Hollis.

Police believe Rollen Oliver, 21, shot Hollis in the head when she responded to a report that two groups were fighting during the City Park Jazz concert Sunday night.
Monday morning he appeared at an advisement hearing.

He was escorted into the courtroom by six Denver deputies, all of whom had black and blue bands of mourning over their badges.

Oliver wore a red jail jumpsuit and had chains around his waist that were held by a deputy. He was handcuffed and shackled.

He is being held in the Denver jail without bond, facing first-degree murder charges.

Rollen Oliver. Yeah, he's probably Black.

Dammit.

I tell myself nobody is responsible for the bad actors who shame themselves and by extension shame their entire race. I know in my rational and logical mind there is no reason to think this way. No one, no matter how noble or evil or foolish represents or reflects on every other member of a racial or ethnic group.

The journalist Carl T. Rowan sagely observed, A minority group has "arrived" only when it has the right to produce some fools and scoundrels without the entire group paying for it.

Logically, sure, I know this to be true, but the failures of Black people are so often shoved under my nose, I find myself actively craving and seeking the success stories just to remind myself we're ALL not thugs, criminals, psychos and human garbage.

The Black race has produced philosophers, healers, entertainers, scientists, politicians, athletes and other men and women of distinction that have made the world a better place.

It needs more like Celina Hollis and a lot less like Rollen Oliver.

I shouldn't feel embarrassed for every Black person, but when I know how this kind of tragedy will be seen (and spun) as Blacks killing, Blacks being violent, Blacks doing stupid shit, Blacks proving every horrible stereotype about us is true, I do feel embarrassed for every Black person who doesn't kill, who isn't violent, who do smart stuff and prove every horrible stereotype about us is false.

After all, do White people ever feel a sense of collective guilt that Adolf Hitler and Jeffrey Dahmer and Jerry Sandusky are White? No such shame in their game.

W.E.B. DuBois said, "The Negro race, like all races, is going to be saved by its exceptional men (and women, I would amend)." DuBois was speaking of a "Talented Tenth" percent of the race that would rescue the remainder of the race. It sounds a bit elitist, but DuBois was fundamentally correct it's the exceptional people of a race that inspire and lead the rest of the race.

I don't know if Celina Hollis was exceptional, but I'm certain Rollen Oliver was not.

I keep hoping they ain't Black but I'm continually disappointed and seldom surprised when I know they are.

Zoombie · Jun 25, 2012

nighttimer said:
After all, do White people ever feel a sense of collective guilt that Adolf Hitler and Jeffrey Dahmer and Jerry Sandusky are White? No such shame in their game.

I know I'm atypical. I'm a weirdo. But...yeah, I feel pretty disgusted with my own race when I think of Hitler. The worst part is he thought he was doing people like me a favor. Fucking asshole...

The burden isn't on black people to prove that they're human. The burden is on white people to stop making the qualification for "human" to be "white."

Black people, as far as I can tell, have been doing just fine in terms of the humanity department...with all the good and bad that brings. Because, at the end of the day, the difference between Adolph Hitler and Martin Luther King Junior is less than one one hundrednth of a percent - at least when it comes to DNA and genetics.

The real difference is between the eyes and in the chest. And that's changed by how people are raised, how they think, and how they are taught.

So...for all the good it's worth, I think that the world is going to remember Celena. She sounds like she was worth remembering. Hell, spending just five minutes with my nieces and nephews throws the whole "parenthood" thing in stark relief, I'd put her up for the medal of honor just being a single mom...add police officer ontop of that and I'd be halfway convinced she's a saint.

little_e · Jun 25, 2012

Denver is such a lovely city. Lived there for many years.
There are poor folks in Denver. The poor areas, yeah, are more violent. It was hard to miss which parts of the neighborhood had more visits by the police.

As long as black folks are disproportionately poor, they're going to dominate the crime stats. An' it's a tragedy.

I used to feel guilty abut my race. Then I got angry at other races. Then I realized I was being stupid. I am responsible for me and no one else (well, and my kids.) So are you. So are we all.

thebloodfiend · Jun 25, 2012

Sometimes, I feel this way as well. It's sad, but true. My relatives haven't helped much in that department, either.

Bookewyrme · Jun 25, 2012

nighttimer said:
After all, do White people ever feel a sense of collective guilt that Adolf Hitler and Jeffrey Dahmer and Jerry Sandusky are White? No such shame in their game.

Just adding my voice to Zoombie's. I don't feel it so much about Hitler, but I do feel ashamed when I hear about white supremacists, or that one guy (I can't remember if he was a preacher or a politician, which says something but that's another topic) who wanted to send all the blacks back to the plantation "for their own good" or the guys who thinks it's the right thing to do to send hispanic kids raised in this country to their "home" country even when they've spent their whole lives here. Basically, any time I hear of white folks oppressing others, I feel a little sad and angry and ashamed. As zoombie said though, we are exceptions not the rule.

But I do think little e has a point: We are each of us only responsible for our own actions (and our children's but only up to a point, after all we don't have remote-control chips in them...yet) and should not be held responsible for others' actions, or hold ourselves responsible. That way lies madness, I think.

JoNightshade · Jun 25, 2012

Bookewyrme said:
Basically, any time I hear of white folks oppressing others, I feel a little sad and angry and ashamed. As zoombie said though, we are exceptions not the rule.

Just want to echo this. Since there's three of us, I'm not so sure we're exceptions? But when it's a white person specifically being racist, I'm embarrassed.

When I think of epic baddies like Hitler, though, it's not specifically linked to any race. Basically I just feel a little ashamed to be human.

thebloodfiend · Jun 25, 2012

Not trying to be patronizing in the least, but I've often heard the term referred to as White Guilt.

Zoombie · Jun 25, 2012

Eh, it's not a logical thing. No more logical than "black guilt."

And the desire to have other white people treat black people like human beings instead of subhuman animals isn't an expression of white guilt, or white mans burden or any of those nasty colonial ideologies. No more than men wanting other men to treat women as human beings instead of subhuman animals isn't an expression of misogyny.

It's called "being an ally."

Just don't be patronizing, self indulgent, deluded or any of the other common afflictions that can bog down being an ally.

sliccat · Jun 25, 2012

Kitty Pryde · Jun 25, 2012

Just a reminder to everybody to keep it civil, Respect Your Fellow Writer, and read the room rules stickies at the top of the PoC forum.

thebloodfiend · Jun 25, 2012

I do think there's a difference between White Guilt (which isn't synonymous with the White Man's Burden) and being an Ally. I only brought it up because I've heard the term used to describe white people who feel guilty for slavery and the things Hitler did.

It's also quite different from black guilt, though neither are logical. When the proportion of positive images of blacks is skewed in the media, as opposed to the proportion of positive images of whites, there's no comparison. I mean, I really do feel embarrassed when I watch a Tyler Perry movie, knowing that this might be the only exposure to black people a sheltered white kid might see. Aaron McGruder, Spike Lee, and TP are pretty much the only "big" black directors out there.

It gets worse when you hear people talk about OJ and Michael Jackson and Barry Bonds and Michale Vic, and you try to rationalize with yourself that their misdeeds do not fall onto the entirety of your race. And when watching a movie like Finding Forrester or Akeelah and the Bee makes you feel good about your race. I mean, do you guys watch (insert movie with white MC) and think, goddamn, I'm so glad they didn't coon it up or make the white dude the rapist or kill him off in five minutes, thank god for this positive portrayal of white people. Every time I hear someone gush about The Help, or some TP movie, or laugh at a "black" joke, I cringe.

Anyway, I'd say being an Ally is positive, you don't make it all about youself. I'd say White Guilt shifts the focus from the group in question, to the person who feels the guilt, often placing the group they're trying to equalize or respect on a pedestal, dehumanizing them in the process. Quite frankly, it's annoying. It leads to magical negros, magical wise natives, and the gay best friend who's only purpose is to help the MC. It gets more annoying when cultural appropriation comes into play.

I suppose I should've clarified above.

/derail

Zoombie · Jun 25, 2012

Yeah, I get that and I think it's better to mention that something MIGHT be a problem so that people can look at themselves rather than be silent and let the problem fester.

And yeah, there's a distinct and clear difference in the ways of thoughts...and that's why it's vitally important to have multifaceted, complex, and more importantly, HUMAN characters of color. I mean, aside from the fact that diversity in and of itself is a good thing - makes things interesting - but inclusiveness has a positive effect on the readers.

It's not going to "solve racism", but it's a good step towards helping.

Lavern08 · Jun 26, 2012

nighttimer said:
...I shouldn't feel embarrassed for every Black person, but when I know how this kind of tragedy will be seen (and spun) as Blacks killing, Blacks being violent, Blacks doing stupid shit, Blacks proving every horrible stereotype about us is true,

I do feel embarrassed for every Black person who doesn't kill, who isn't violent, who do smart stuff and prove every horrible stereotype about us is false...

Yeah that ^

(But then I have to keep reminding myself not to turn into a POC with the mindset of Adolph Caesar's character in A Soldier's Story.)

Jcomp · Jun 26, 2012

Oh yeah, I think about this pretty regularly. Ultimately it's not even about feeling "guilty," but worrying about "guilt by association." In my most cynical moments I think that it's not too improbable for something to happen that will cause a threateningly large portion of the population to openly turn against black people. Asians suffered this fate in the wake of Pearl Harbor (and to a much lesser extent, due to the threat of Japanese competition with American motor companies--this week was the 30th anniversary of Vincent Chin's murder, which resulted in something less than a slap on the wrist for his murderers). Various dark-skinned people of even vaguely "Middle-Eastern" descent suffered this in the aftermath of 9/11. We're all susceptible to it, save for the one racial / ethnic group in the country that's all but guaranteed to win if it really went down. That's not an accusation, that's just reality.

nighttimer · Jun 26, 2012

thebloodfiend said:
It's also quite different from black guilt, though neither are logical. When the proportion of positive images of blacks is skewed in the media, as opposed to the proportion of positive images of whites, there's no comparison. I mean, I really do feel embarrassed when I watch a Tyler Perry movie, knowing that this might be the only exposure to black people a sheltered white kid might see. Aaron McGruder, Spike Lee, and TP are pretty much the only "big" black directors out there.

It gets worse when you hear people talk about OJ and Michael Jackson and Barry Bonds and Michale Vic, and you try to rationalize with yourself that their misdeeds do not fall onto the entirety of your race. And when watching a movie like Finding Forrester or Akeelah and the Bee makes you feel good about your race. I mean, do you guys watch (insert movie with white MC) and think, goddamn, I'm so glad they didn't coon it up or make the white dude the rapist or kill him off in five minutes, thank god for this positive portrayal of white people. Every time I hear someone gush about The Help, or some TP movie, or laugh at a "black" joke, I cringe.

Anyway, I'd say being an Ally is positive, you don't make it all about youself. I'd say White Guilt shifts the focus from the group in question, to the person who feels the guilt, often placing the group they're trying to equalize or respect on a pedestal, dehumanizing them in the process. Quite frankly, it's annoying. It leads to magical negros, magical wise natives, and the gay best friend who's only purpose is to help the MC. It gets more annoying when cultural appropriation comes into play.

When you know the image beamed around the world is one of Black-on-Black crime, Black-on-White crime, Black poverty, Black pathology, Black failure, how many clean-cut, educated, articulate, non-threatening, SAFE colored people does it take to counter those perceptions?

I submit if you cloned Colin, Bill, Oprah, Barack, Will, Tiger, Condoleeza, and Sidney and dispatched them around the globe as goodwill ambassadors of the Black race, it would still fail to undo the fear and loathing caused by one asshole's actions.

It doesn't matter how far we advance. We can still be yanked back by one fool. It's not right. It's not fair. But it is what it is.

Sometimes I don't want to be a credit to my race. I'd rather sit in my chair, scratching inappropriately and guzzling a Bud Lite. Then the news comes on about the weekend's body count in Chicago and I have to put on a suit and tie and smile when I'm not down for that.

It just gets old. It's tiresome always having to be on your best behavior.

Celia Cyanide · Jun 26, 2012

I think this is probably a perfect example of white priviledge, and the things we white folks take for granted being white. When a white person does something horrible and disgusting, I don't have to worry about everybody who isn't white thinking, "Yup, that's what they're like."

I remember when the news about the Virginia Tech massacre broke. There was a Hmong guy at our clinic, and he was really upset about it, and he said, "That guy's Asian. He's going to make me look bad."

And what did the media do? They said, "He must have gotten this from Old Boy, because he is Korean, and the people in Old Boy are also Korean."

Having said all of that, I agree with Zoombie that I do feel pretty disgusted when a white person does something racist and icky. I think I feel that way because that person generally wants people to think they stand for all white people and they don't.

zahra · Jun 26, 2012

Yes, I feel this, and I hate feeling it.

One thing that strikes me, though, is that the white people here all feel bad when a white person does something racist, not when they commit ANY kind of heinous crime. White people don't cringe because of the race of, say, the Green River Killer as I bet blacks would have done had he been black.

I guess that's the privilege of your race only being spotlighted when it's in relation to another group's race. Our race is spotlighted all the time.

backslashbaby · Jun 27, 2012

zahra said:
Yes, I feel this, and I hate feeling it.

One thing that strikes me, though, is that the white people here all feel bad when a white person does something racist, not when they commit ANY kind of heinous crime. White people don't cringe because of the race of, say, the Green River Killer as I bet blacks would have done had he been black.

I guess that's the privilege of your race only being spotlighted when it's in relation to another group's race. Our race is spotlighted all the time.

Yep!

But I do think we white folks look bad to PoC about a lot of other things, so I do think about that often. It's not the same thing at all, though. It's not about serious issues when it's not about racism, and people thinking badly of you is just not the same thing as what the non-privileged go through. At all.

aruna · Jun 27, 2012

My heart sinks whenever the perp turns out to be a PoC. Especially here in Germany, where PoC are a dwindling minority trying hard to gain full acceptance.

Williebee · Jun 27, 2012

Maybe it is a matter of white privilege. I hear about Sandusky and feel sorrow and anger, and some shame for my species and sex. I hear about the racist crap some skinhead Michigan Militia wannabee pulls and feel that same anger, and a little ashamed of my race. Or about bullshit some self-entitled tourist pulls in Italy or France and feel shame or at least embarrassment for my nationality. I keep thinking we should all have grown up out of this by now. But I don't hear "somebody shot so and so" and first think, I hope they aren't white. So, yeah, there is that. A couple of centuries of inherited privilege, victimization and negative stereotyping. I have to wonder how many it will take to get past it.

Mharvey · Jun 27, 2012

While I personally don't have any experience with a "white guilt" type phenomenon, I believe my mother experiences something very close to what has been talked about in this thread. She's a die-hard Catholic.

She tears up, nearly breaking down, every time Catholicism is in the news, typically spearheaded by yet another priest/altar boy sex scandal. She feels ashamed and guilty over it. She's even come to me, in tears, asking me if our priest ever did anything to me... which, I have to laugh and say no. Of all my problems with that religion, the Irish-Catholic parish priest who actually came over to our house to watch the Patriots games, was not one of them in the least. A great man.

I think the reason I don't really feel "White Pride" or can't even begin to understand what people of color feel when one of their own commits a terrible crime is because I never really felt a sense of "white community". Then again, I grew up in suburban Boston where like 1 kid in my school was black and maybe two were latino. It wasn't a "white community"... it was just my community.

As my mother has a strong sense of "Catholic Pride", she takes it very personally when the church is involved in a scandal. Because these acts *do* lower the esteem of the body as the whole. And, I can see why a proud, upstanding black or proud latino man would feel the same thing when a member of their own commits a terrible crime.

The only thing I can say is, I think the majority of people (at least in my social circles and where I live) don't really acknowledge race as a big factor when it comes to crime, but poverty level. I think, if you look at people of all colors below the poverty line, the ratios of people who commit crimes per certain number are pretty even across the boards. Just, there's more poor latino/black people than white, so it seems like it's a racial problem... when in reality, their motivations would be the same as whites who lived where they lived and made what they made.

My hope for the future is that people of all income levels get the same chance to succeed on their own merits one day, on equal footing with people born to wealth. Foolishly optimistic? Maybe, but who knows what the next hundred or two hundred years will bring.

Unimportant · Jun 27, 2012

Celia Cyanide said:
I think this is probably a perfect example of white privilege, and the things we white folks take for granted being white. When a white person does something horrible and disgusting, I don't have to worry about everybody who isn't white thinking, "Yup, that's what they're like."

Yes, that's an excellent point.

I wonder if Republicans think "Oh, I hope it's not..." every time there's a news headline about "Politician caught having gay sex."

nighttimer · Jun 28, 2012

When something like this goes down I don't have "I Hope They Ain't Black" moments...

A 7-year-old girl was fatally shot in the back Wednesday outside of her family’s home in Chicago.

The girl, identified as Heaven Sutton, was selling candy with her mother and playing with friends around 10:45 p.m. in the city’s North Austin neighborhood when someone opened fire down the street, NBCChicago.com reported.

The girl’s mother, Ashake Banks, said she threw herself on the ground while her daughter ran into her family’s home. Moments later, Banks said she found her daughter unconscious inside a hallway.

“There were two guys,” Heaven’s brother, Malik Ellis told NBCChicago.com. “I saw one come out of the gangway. He walked into the middle of the street and started shooting.”

Heaven was rushed to an area hospital. She was pronounced dead there at 11:16 p.m., according to the Cook County medical examiner’s office.

“I’m lost for words. That was my pride and joy,” Banks told the Chicago Tribune.

Banks said the soon-to-be second grader told her on several occasions she wanted her family to move out of the violent neighborhood. She said her daughter was a sweet, smart girl.

Heaven is the 20th person under the age of 17 to be killed by gunfire in Chicago this year, reported the Chicago Tribune.

...because I already know they are Black.

_Sian_ · Jun 29, 2012

I think it also has a lot to do with worrying about what others think. Like others have mentioned in this thread, I get guilty when some idiot makes a comment that is either racist or homophobic. Thinking about it, the reason I don't feel guilt over the murders/other horrible things my race does is because I know I won't be ... blamed? That's not the right word, but I doubt anyone will associate me personally with that crime. Whereas I know people could associate me personally with racist or homophobic comments that are made by my people of my skin colour and/or social background.

I however do feel guilt when an Australian does something over seas that is a crime. Again, because there's the feeling that someone could associate being an Australian with that crime or behaviour.

RJLeahy · Jun 29, 2012

This is an interesting conundrum of our species and I want to commend nighttimer for the way he presented his frustrations. It could have easily been much more inflammatory.

I say our species, because the us/not-us way in which we classify and sort other people is probably as old as homo sapiens. ("Hey, you see that Neanderthal? Keep an eye on him. Because you know, they're ALL that way.") It's imbedded in our psyches as a survival tool. Those who are not-us may want to hurt us, so they are not to be completely trusted. And when we can identify someone by something as simple as skin color, determining who is not-us becomes not only easy, but unavoidable. And of course, every anti-social act perpetrated by a non-us, only further confirms the suspicions of us.

This behavior isn't an entirely American phenomena, by the way, although our history of institutionalized slavery certainly made us one of the worst offenders. Muslims across America and Europe cringe just as much when the face of another 'martyr', is flashed on the TV following another suicide bombing. The venomous looks and whispered insults can be just as withering as those suffered during Jim Crow. There are non-color example as well (hutu and tutsi tribes in Rwanda), but I think the point has been made.

So what can be done? Well, education, greater familiarity, etc are all certainly helpful, but I don't think anything this deeply ingrained within us is easily changed. In fact, I'd argue after thirty thousand years and still dividing each other into us/not-us, proves that point.

What I think will improve things, at least in this country, is the change in demographics. It's clear that whites are slowly becoming the minority and not only because of lower birth rates and immigration. Whites are decreasing in number because of interracial marriage. As anyone who paints knows, white is the absence of color. Whether your spouse is black or Hispanic or middle eastern, your children will no longer be "white". Your own family is now part of the not-us, and that's just not something the human brain can wrap itself around easily.

As nighttimer correctly observes, cloning Colin, Bill, Oprah, Barack, Will, Tiger, Condoleeza, and Sidney would do little. It would simply be a world full of great and wonderful not-us's. Have an uncle Will, however, or an aunt Oprah, or cousin Tiger, and the whole thing crumbles under its own weight.

At least for here, and for this form of racism.

("Watch him closely", said Samuel, as Abdul walked into the store. "Because you know, they're ALL like that.")

"I Hope They Ain't Black" moments...

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