More Goings On in the World of Games and Women

BunnyMaz

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This article from a female games journalist is pretty disappointing. I thought it was quite timely given the recent discussions we've had on here.

“Do you play PC games?” he asked, frowning.
One of the publications on my media badge was listed as PC PowerPlay. It shouldn’t have been necessary for him to ask such a question, but I answered. “Yes.”
“Well, OK.” I sensed a disbelief in the guy’s voice. “But do you play shooters?”
I remember the silence that filled this space beyond this question. I was horrified that anyone could even ask such a thing. Here I was, sitting with my fingers spread across WASD, admiring a game world — and somehow, for some obtuse reason, being assumed to be someone who didn’t know anything about the world or how to interact with it.
“I think I better play it for you,” he said finally, prying my hands away and turning the keyboard towards himself.
And so there I was, hands twisted awkwardly and uselessly in my lap as a guy walked me through his game. In laboured detail, he explained to me simple mechanics that any shooter player would be well-acquainted with. He avoided the gameplay due to some apparent strange belief that I was not there to learn about shooting things in a shooter game, that perhaps my delicate girl senses might be offended by killing with guns and missiles. He pointed out rabbits in the grass with all the condescension of an adult trying to distract a noisy toddler, as if my interest in this simulation-grade shooter lay in some wildly misguided assumption that it would be full of adorable, fluffy animals.

Apparently, while the above was a pretty glaring example of the issue, similar incidents occurred to her throughout the event.
 

fireluxlou

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If I were her I'd be shocked like her and probably wouldn't respond to him no matter if I was there for a job because those events are largely male and it's intimidating. I'd be representing my paper/magazine like her and think it might be unprofessional of myself to respond.

I'm just a shy creature who doesn't like confrontation. I'm not surprised similar things happen through the event, I go into a game shop and I get similar reactions from the male staff.

I bought Oblivion agges ago and he asked me if I was buying it for a boyfriend or brother and I said 'No I have my own XBOX' said to me 'Do you understand what this game is about?' I said 'Yea I've got the last one'. He was like 'Oh' as in disbelief too.

I miss having a GAME shop near me it was largely run by women. Didn't treat me like I was stupid or knew nothing about Games. I tend to buy online now. No condescending assholes treating me as dumb because I am a woman.
 

RichardGarfinkle

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There's a lesson here for all of us. Nothing guarantees good reviews and increase in customers more than hateful condescension.

Honestly, I do not understand the idea that only males game.

I don't know if I just lucked into it, but even 30 years ago when I came to college we had a gaming club with more than one gender of players.

Given that I met my wife at that club, I can't see the appeal of trying to keep gaming boys only.

Did all the chauvinism of previous generations distill into the current crop of gamers?
 

BunnyMaz

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Heh. And you know it's getting pretty overt when even Yahtzee notices and takes time out of his excellent but necessarily limited videos just to mention it.
 

Monkey

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Sexism among gamers is pretty rampant. My buddies who play competitively seem to have a separate category for women... a woman's gender will always be mentioned, for better or worse. Even when they're ridiculously skilled, the guys just can't help but point out, "And she's a GIRL!"

They don't consider that sexism, because they're associating it with something she's doing well. I do consider it sexist, but it's the kind I roll my eyes at. I've learned to pick my battles. That said, the guy in the OP would have been put in some sort of physical pain if he hadn't given me the damn controller back.
 

LOG

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Maybe the problem will begin to alleviate now that females are a larger part of the gaming population?
It's hard to have a bias towards female gamers when the ones I play games with are better at them than me.

I imagine that the last game of League I played with RivDizzle, she spent the time being exasperated with me as I failed at supporting her Vayne with Taric.
 

Zoombie

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Dear god, I hope so...gamers are lucky that games are so fun that women continue to play them in the face of this.

This is just...disgraceful.
 

LOG

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a trailer feature a man ripping into a band of sexy nuns. No wonder we’re seeing it filter down into the developers, who implement in-game achievements for looking up the skirts of 19-year-old women dressed like schoolgirls

Do I even want to know what these are in reference to?
 

muravyets

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Yeah, that business about taking the controller away from her, physically... not okay. The idiotically sexist assumptions of many in the gaming world aside, that kind of face-to-face sexism with actual real-life sexist physical interaction boosts that particular jackass up a few levels, I guess you could say. It it had been me in her place, destroying him in every game he ever plays for the rest of his life might very well become my new hobby. Tiddlywinks wouldn't be safe for that ass.
 

Zoombie

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Do I even want to know what these are in reference to?

The Hitman: Absolution trailer and the game Chainsaw Lollipop. Fun fact, Chainsaw Lollipop's main character is voiced by Tara Strong, so if you ever wanted to hear Twilight Sparkle say the words, "Wear your vagina with pride!" ...well, there you go.

I've had friends try and tell me that the panty achievement is okay because Sudo-51 is "Quirky" or "Insane" or "Japanese."

...no...no it's not.
 

Sarashay

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Maybe the problem will begin to alleviate now that females are a larger part of the gaming population?

Or, more likely, the problem will get worse, because misogyny (like racsim and homophobia) shouts loudest when threatened with equality.
 

RichardGarfinkle

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I figure it gets worse until the old guard dies off and are replaced with new people.

...hopefully.

Hey. As I pointed out unthread, some among we Old Guard were far less sexist then the current crop.

I'm concerned it's the opposite, that there's a reactionary group among the younger generation.
 

absitinvidia

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Maybe the problem will begin to alleviate now that females are a larger part of the gaming population?


The thing is, we've been a larger part of the gaming population for a while now, and still the perception persists that women are not gamers.
 

Priene

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I figure it gets worse until the old guard dies off and are replaced with new people.

...hopefully.

That's what we all thought thirty years ago.
 

JohnnyGottaKeyboard

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I think some of it might stem from the sexist belief that 12 y o boys won't want to play a game that they think appeals to girls (and, while sexist, not untrue). So the marketers at events like E3 (as well as game producers in interviews and adverts) are being overly cautious about letting their games be seen as appealing to female gamers.
From the Article: "I left that booth having learnt very little about the game, beyond that it apparently wasn’t a game that should have interested me. I was evidently a nuisance to these people because… because what?"
 

fireluxlou

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I think some of it might stem from the sexist belief that 12 y o boys won't want to play a game that they think appeals to girls (and, while sexist, not untrue). So the marketers at events like E3 (as well as game producers in interviews and adverts) are being overly cautious about letting their games be seen as appealing to female gamers.

Well it's the same attitude from Disney and Pixar. Disney doesn't want to title their Princess film line anymore with the Princess's name , that's why Tangled was titled Tangled (it was Rapunzel) and the trailers promoted it as a boy film from the perspective of the male main character. Pixar are having their first female main character in ever and one of the top people in Pixar said that 'female characters don't sell, people won't watch films with women as main characters so our women characters have only had minor parts in our films before. we're testing the waters with Brave'.

So I'm guessing if Brave flops they will put it down to the female lead, not the crappy story changes they made to it.

And I don't think that is true at all. When I was 12 everyone played Lara Croft, the second game was one of the best selling games of my generation.
 

Teinz

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The thing is, we've been a larger part of the gaming population for a while now, and still the perception persists that women are not gamers.

I regularly play Gears 3. One of the people I usually play with is Anita. She's a enemy-rushing-leader-gibbing-gnasher-blasting-wallbouncing 40-year old mother of two. She's way better than I am. So, no, I and other male players I know don't really share that perception.

Having said that, she's one of only a handful af women I met whilst playing Gears. I guess maybe 10 percent of Gears players is female. Maybe that's even an optimistic estimate.

I don't know how this plays out for other gametypes, but I reckon it's pretty much the same for all shooters. A majority of players is male. So, looking at it from that angle, I can understand the initial reaction of the pr-guy from the story. Women who are interested in shooters are rare. Maybe he was genuinely surprised.

I agree that not letting the reporter play for herself was a stupid move. It reeks of "you are a woman, ergo, you can't play."

I also think she could have been a bit more assertive. She easily could have said; "Hey, enough with the rabbits, let me shoot someone!"


Oh, if someone fancies a game of Guardian, pm me.
 

icerose

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As a female gamer I run into sexism all the time. It's why I avoid MMO's and online shooters like the plague now. Too many asshats that get in the way of enjoying he game.
 

Maxinquaye

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When I played Eve Online my corp leader was a female that liked to ambush people with bling ships just for the kill-record. She was a superb strategist and tactician, and I've not really met that kind of attitude. People that displayed it was issued with a sort of fatwah, and the game would quickly lose its charm for the offender.

But, still, 95 percent of Eve players are male, and that shows. People are surprised when players reveal themselves to be female.
 

Kaiser-Kun

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Cretin. And then losers like this one wonder why no woman wants them.
 

Alessandra Kelley

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I also think she could have been a bit more assertive. She easily could have said; "Hey, enough with the rabbits, let me shoot someone!"

I can speak from :rant: experience that getting assertive is not always easy when you're standing there stunned thinking "WHAT did he just say/do?"

I have managed to defuse garbage like this with humor if I have a companion to speak to. But beyond a loud "EXCUSE ME" once in a while, generally I am too shocked to speak against someone, even if it rapidly becomes clear that I know a whole lot more about what I'm doing than he does.