Can you tell how many words a story will be?

I don't know what to say to this other than it comes out as long or as short as I make it come out.

You never say anything here anyway, James. Why start now?

Dee, in answer to your question, yes.

Interesting question. I can almost always tell whether I'm going to be writing a flash, a regular 2-4k short story, or something like a novelette. But occasionally I do get into the trenches of the story, usually with fantasy, and realize that world building or some other aspect of the piece is going to make it longer than expected.

As for James's comment: there's truth to that as well. If I start out with a goal, say 3,000 words, I always hit within 500 words of it. (And being able to do that first draft is the result of practice.)

But I usually don't start with a word count in mind, so I'm open to letting things contract or expand during the process.

Hope that answers your question.

Sometimes I want a story to be a specific length, then sometimes I find out that length is wrong for that story. I've begun to learn that to keep a story short, it often helps to have fewer focal characters, less settings, and a premise that doesn't necessarily have complex, world or universe changing consequences. And a relatively simple character arc. Small works better for short, for me. If I just write based on an idea I want to work through, then I get a pretty good idea after a while whether the story "wants" to be long or short. Lately, I've been working on a story that keeps trying to become a novel. It's been hard to pin it down to a point where I can keep it under 8000 words, and the feedback from at least half those who've read it is consistently: this could be explored in a novel; this would make a great movie; this needs to be longer... Trouble is, I'm not ready to write a novel. But I think I've done it, by working on the character arc, and getting it to a point where it can stop at 8000 words. So Dee Pratt, I do worry about length, and sometimes have to alter ideas to keep them shorter, but that's only because I don't think I've hit the novel idea that I want to write yet. Short gives me the chance to explore, and if I were to do a novel, I want to be passionate about the world I'm writing about, and not tire of it.

There are also stories I've kept to 3000 words, by vicious editing, but were much better after I expanded them again. I do think the idea has to be right for the length, and that's something learned with experience.

I usually have an idea of general length - whether it will be flash fiction, a short story, a long-short story or a novella/novel.

But I'm bad at writing to a specific length by default. If I want to hit less than 6k (for instance) I usually have to find an idea, work out a few scenes, then adjust to make it shorter or longer depending on what length I'm trying for. But I don't know 'til I have at least part of it written how long it's likely to be.

Complex stories are very hard to keep short. Stories that require world-building are very hard to keep short. It can be done, but part of the trick to knowing how long a story will be before you write it, is knowing how many twists the plot will take, how much your characters like to talk, whether the events will take place in a single location or many, and so on and so on.

Personally, I'm much better at longer stories. Every now and then I get a really good, really short one, but they are rare. I work better at longer lengths and I'm okay with that. Even if it makes it harder to sell the stories I produce.

So, to answer your question, sorta kinda.

I had an idea for a novel once that I turned into a short story for a class. You add and remove plot elements to fit the length of the story. I removed plot elements for the shorter story, condensed scenes, etc. It's usually a good idea to know what length you want the story to be before you write. Then I follow my characters around on the journey and they move around the space I've given them. If that makes sense.

If I set out to write a short story, I'll get to the end after 3000 to 5000 words. A novel. It'll be at least 55000 to 96000 depending on my characters and the complexity of the plot and how difficult the task at hand is. I usually end up somewhere in the middle.

katci13 said:

I had an idea for a novel once that I turned into a short story for a class. You add and remove plot elements to fit the length of the story. I removed plot elements for the shorter story, condensed scenes, etc. It's usually a good idea to know what length you want the story to be before you write. Then I follow my characters around on the journey and they move around the space I've given them. If that makes sense.

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Well, that's an interesting approach. But I have to say, there are very few ideas that will make both a good short story and a good novel. Simply removing plot elements from a novel idea will not equal a short story. And simply adding stuff to a short story idea will not equal a novel. (Though you would be surprised how many people seem to think that's the "trick" to writing a novel.)

So, for me, having an idea that can just be whatever length I want to make it is the exception, not the norm.

Aggy, has developed a few short ideas into longer projects, but never the other way around

I don't go into a story thinking about how long it will be, but most of my work seems to be about the same length. I can write to a word count very well from my journalism days, but there is more freedom in fiction.

I do check the word count quite often when I am writing. It helps me gage how for along the story should be and kind of keeps me on track.

I have an idea when I start writing, but I'm very often wrong. That's further compounded by the fact that I cut mercilessly in editing (as much as 30-40%). I have noticed, though, that, regardless of the piece, my short fiction seems to be growing longer the more I do it. When I first started writing short, everything was 1-2k. After a few glorious months in the sellable range of 3-4, I now seem to have ballooned out to the point where five thousand words is about the best I can hope for to contain the ungainly monstrosity I've spewed forth onto the page. Then again, after obsessing over one story's excessive length and failing to cut it, I sold it at nearly seven thousand words. So I have to echo this from earlier:

zanzjan said:

Aggie is entirely correct that longer stories are harder to sell than shorter ones, but more importantly, mediocre stories are *much* harder to sell than good ones.

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I usually know how big an idea is before I start writing the associated story. Actually, if anything, my stories often come in shorter than I expect them to.

I find that I can sort of predict the length of a particular story... if I outline it.

Somebody reading this probably rolled their eyes. That's fine. Outlining is not for everyone, but I plan to live a long life in its arms. Ha.

Generally, if I outline each scene I plan to have in a story, I can kind of do the math. I've realized that my scenes are generally between 700-1250 words, with the average being around 1000 (though some are much longer). The latest book I wrote has about 80ish scenes based on the initial outline and I'm closing it out at the mid 80,000s (though I still have scenes to add that I later decided I needed). Basically, with 80 scenes times 1,000 average word length, the 80,000 word count at the end is close to where I'm at.

If you don't use outlines or know your average scene length, then I have probably just bored you with useless drivel. Apologies

I can usually judge how long a story is going to be after I get a page or so into it. I never condense or expand a story just to fit a word criteria, though. I write until it's done, no more and certainly no less.

I usually get a feel for what category it will fall in- flash, reasonable, what I consider reasonable, a little long, this doesn't fit anywhere, what the $%&* have I written?, or I need to print this out and burn it. Then my story ends up, every time, the next category up. Well, with one notable exception- a 6kshort has since explained that it's really a YA novel, so it needs work.

In general, I don't worry about it (which is probably why it keeps happening). I could outline and make them shorter, but for me, personally, it feels like paint-by-numbers. I don't enjoy it and quality takes a dive. I'd rather keep a god story until my name is marketable, rather than send out something I feel I've mangled.

Again, this is me personally. Others are able to control their work without strangling it. Maybe with more experience I'll learn that skill, but it's probably just the way I work.