Did Douglas Adams base Zaphod on someone else's work?

retropaw · Jun 21, 2012

Not sure if this is the right place to discuss this but (feel free to move it Mods) I was reading a short story yesterday that was first published in 1971 by someone called James Tiptree Jr. The author introduction hinted heavily at it being a pen name and the story was "I'll be waiting for you when the swimming pool is empty". As I started reading it , it felt oddly familiar. About halfway through at the mention of a pangalactic something or other I realised that It was as if I was reading a lost chapter of hitchhiker's guide. The main character who has a penchance for fast ships and women, could actually be Zaphod Beeblebrox's brother, with dialogue such as "hey, Kids" "if you dig" and so on. The style was also sarcastic and dead-pan nonchalance just like Mr Adams, with character names that could have jumped from the guide. So it was a surprise to learn that the pen name was actually that of an American writer called Alice Bradley Sheldon and she wrote the short story a full 7 years before Hitchhkers guide came out. So was this story the secret root of the infamous trilogy in six parts? Even the title of the short story sounds similar to "So long and thanks for all the fish". Please please could someone else read the story and let me know!

Caitlin Black · Jun 21, 2012

I haven't read that short, and don't have time right now, but...

It's been established that Douglas Adams would change the story of how he came up with Hitch-Hiker's Guide over the years. The famous one is laying down in a field in Innsbruck, but a biography I read seriously doubts that.

So while I'd love to say that Adams was original, I can't say for sure.

In any event, his books are brilliant, and take pride of place in my collection.

Alessandra Kelley · Jun 21, 2012

Adams originally wrote Hitch-hikers by the seat of his pants as a radio script. I wouldn't be surprised if he grabbed at anything to hand, in memory or otherwise.

And Tiptree/Sheldon is very, very famous. Even has a literary award named after her. She wrote well for years, and surprised nearly everybody when she was revealed to be a woman.

The parallels in that story of hers sound interesting.

BigWords · Jun 21, 2012

Interesting... I haven't seen that particular story, but I know that some of the contents of the series was open mockery of other works (blowing up the Earth was a reaction to the planet being the seeming center of the universe in other SF).

retropaw · Jun 21, 2012

I'll post some lines from the story this evening unless someone can find a link or passages from the story online somewhere?

Torgo · Jun 21, 2012

Zaphod always struck me as having being constructed for the scene in which he horns in on Arthur's tentative chat-up of Trillian at that party in Islington. "Hey, baby - is this guy boring you? Come and talk to me, I'm from a different planet!"

He's everything Arthur is not - hip, sexy, confident, and exotic - though Zaphod's hipness is largely played for laughs; he's a sort of parodic 70s cool cat, and both Arthur and the reader are supposed, I think, to find him ludicrous when nobody else can. And there's a great joke about Zaphod becoming President of the Universe but it turning out he doesn't get to make any decisions and is essentially there for entertainment purposes.

He fits so nicely into Arthur's life as an infuriating reflection that I can't believe he's nicked from anywhere; I think he springs out of Arthur. If Tiptree/Sheldon was doing the same kind of thing I think probably she was parodying the same kind of person as Adams was. (I haven't read the story.)

retropaw · Jun 21, 2012

"Look,you shouldn't get the idea that I think I'm some sort of god or whatever,and to prove it I'm going to live amongst you." He felt confident about this because his whole class had been on the pangalactic immmunization program.

"How would this grab you: one religio-cultural center for both your nations, where all the people could dig them? And while we're on it - you know, this bit of dropping babies down the wells to bring rain has to be a joke. I mean, existentially, that's why you all have squitters."

"Well now," said Cammerling, "that was truly a groovy grope."

"Hey kids, when you get yourselves together, I'll show you how to make some pizzas."

Silver King · Jun 21, 2012

retropaw said:
Not sure if this is the right place to discuss this but (feel free to move it Mods)...

You might get more responses in Roundtable than Office Party, so I'll move your thread there now.

Interesting topic, by the way.

BigWords · Jun 21, 2012

My eyes are going blurry reading through the horrible yellow type, but so far I can't find any notes about titles which could have served as inspiration on the alt group. It did remind me that Neil Gaiman, if anyone, is probably the best person to ask about such things though...

areteus · Jun 22, 2012

It is always hard to determine inspiration and work out if something was plaguarised or influenced by someone else's work. I suspect the reason why Adams was so vague about the origins of Hitchhikers was because he himself was vague about it - exact details can be hard and remembering them is sometimes impossible.

To take an example of my own. A long time ago, I came up with an idea for a race of pseudoceltic, tree dwelling, furry creatures. I acknowledged that there was something of the Wookie in them and a little Ewok and a soupcon of Klingon - they were almost deliberate influences because this was for a game and I wanted something that players could relate too. However, a few years after this was written, I re read a short story I had read when much younger and there was, more or less, this race - or at least many of the elements of them that weren't wookie, klingon or ewok. I didn't remember that story when designing that race but clearly there was some aspect of them that I called upon.

bearilou · Jun 22, 2012

Okay, so...if we take our inspiration from other writers and are perhaps influenced by themes, characters, stories and plots...we're going to run into problems of plagiarism?

And I'm sorry, retropaw, but that comment of quotes (#7) gives me no context at all in regards to your point.

Mr Flibble · Jun 22, 2012

It's only plagiarism if you copy the actual words, isn't it?

All stories are informed by the stories around them (I think). No story exists in a vacuum. It is influenced by society, by cultural expectations, by all the stories that have come before.

I did have a bit of a facepalm lately when i rewatched a fave film from years ago and realised I'd got a very similar scenario at the end of one of my books. I'm going to call it a homage

As for Hitch-hikers and this story - maybe there is a touch of the flavour there. But as said upthread, maybe they were both riffing on the same sort fo person IRL. Or maybe the story influenced Adams, knowingly or otherwise. Not sure it matters?

seun · Jun 22, 2012

retropaw said:
Not sure if this is the right place to discuss this but (feel free to move it Mods) I was reading a short story yesterday that was first published in 1971 by someone called James Tiptree Jr. The author introduction hinted heavily at it being a pen name and the story was "I'll be waiting for you when the swimming pool is empty". As I started reading it , it felt oddly familiar. About halfway through at the mention of a pangalactic something or other I realised that It was as if I was reading a lost chapter of hitchhiker's guide. The main character who has a penchance for fast ships and women, could actually be Zaphod Beeblebrox's brother, with dialogue such as "hey, Kids" "if you dig" and so on. The style was also sarcastic and dead-pan nonchalance just like Mr Adams, with character names that could have jumped from the guide. So it was a surprise to learn that the pen name was actually that of an American writer called Alice Bradley Sheldon and she wrote the short story a full 7 years before Hitchhkers guide came out. So was this story the secret root of the infamous trilogy in six parts? Even the title of the short story sounds similar to "So long and thanks for all the fish". Please please could someone else read the story and let me know!

Not sure if there's anything concrete here that links the two works. The dialogue is pretty much a 70s cliche, plenty of characters are deadpan and the two titles don't really smack me in the face as being overly similar.

BigWords · Jun 22, 2012

IdiotsRUs said:
It's only plagiarism if you copy the actual words, isn't it?

Yup.

IdiotsRUs said:
All stories are informed by the stories around them (I think). No story exists in a vacuum. It is influenced by society, by cultural expectations, by all the stories that have come before.

Adams was riffing on a whole lot of things in the original radio drama, and even more so in the books - I hardly expect that there is anything in the body of work (which is a hell of a lot of words, with every variation of the story taken into consideration) which is completely and utterly original. Rather, his appeal lies in the way he takes something and twists it around so that the absurdity is highlighted.

Mr Flibble · Jun 22, 2012

I just realised I have unconsciously inserted an oblique reference to the Stay Puft marshmallow man at the end of Ghostbusters into my WIP....

Alessandra Kelley · Jun 22, 2012

While I can't find the term anywhere in my old OED, I'm pretty sure the term "pangalactic" was in use long before either of these stories. And the Xaphod Beeblebrox sort of cocktail-party hipster was a humor cliché already.

Probably Tiptree and Adams were just both riffing on similar tropes.

Alessandra Kelley · Jun 22, 2012

IdiotsRUs said:
I just realised I have unconsciously inserted an oblique reference to the Stay Puft marshmallow man at the end of Ghostbusters into my WIP....

I went back and re-read some early Isaac Asimov and had the distinct impression he was riffing off beat poetry. It was surreal.

gothicangel · Jun 22, 2012

In the book I'm subbing, I was definitely riffing off The Illiad.

Mark W. · Jun 22, 2012

Doesn't seem too similar to me. Just sounds like generic hipster speak for the 70s. But who knows, it could be.

Jamesaritchie · Jun 22, 2012

I'd guess, but can't prove, there was some influence, but this is a good thing. It's very common in the SF world. James Tiptree jr. was extremely famous. Everyone knew her work, and most SF readers today still know it well. Adams certainly knew of it.

Xelebes · Jun 22, 2012

IdiotsRUs said:
I just realised I have unconsciously inserted an oblique reference to the Stay Puft marshmallow man at the end of Ghostbusters into my WIP....

Come on, you don't do that to Vikings. . .

Stacia Kane · Jun 22, 2012

retropaw said:
The main character who has a penchance for fast ships and women, could actually be Zaphod Beeblebrox's brother, with dialogue such as "hey, Kids" "if you dig" and so on.

Lots of male MCs have a penchant for fast vehicles of any kind and women.

And my characters say "if you dig," and I've never read either Tiptree or Adams.

IdiotsRUs said:
I just realised I have unconsciously inserted an oblique reference to the Stay Puft marshmallow man at the end of Ghostbusters into my WIP....

My MC uses Tobin's Spirit Guide for research.

Homage!

(ETA: I've also included references to the Salem Witch Trials, Poltergeist, The Turn of the Screw, The Changeling...)

retropaw · Jun 22, 2012

seun said:
Not sure if there's anything concrete here that links the two works. The dialogue is pretty much a 70s cliche, plenty of characters are deadpan and the two titles don't really smack me in the face as being overly similar.

I think you really have to read the story before being able to dismiss the possibility! It's quite uncanny.

James D. Macdonald · Jun 23, 2012

Stacia Kane said:
My MC uses Tobin's Spirit Guide for research. Homage!

Ha! One of my characters looks something up in Jein's All the Worlds' Spaceships.

(Pangalactic is a pretty common SF term; easily invented even if you'd never seen any previous instances. I'd be surprised if it didn't show up--repeatedly--in the pulps.)

Deleted member 42 · Jun 23, 2012

It's a literary allusion. There are a number of nods in Hitchhiker's to other writers, and to actors and FOD (Friends of Douglas). There are even riffs off of old radio commercials.

Did Douglas Adams base Zaphod on someone else's work?

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