An offer to publish my trunked horror novel but--

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underthecity

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I have a few reservations.

I had submitted my horror novel to about 150 or so agents, it was rejected by everyone. I never submitted to publishers. Last year I did a beta swap with another AW member, and this member pointed out a lot of problems with the story. I agreed with her assessment and decided to trunk it, thinking I might revisit in the future and do a massive rewrite if need be.

Since then, I've written a YA novel that is currently being queried (with two current fulls out).

Two months ago an AW member posted in Announcements about her new book coming out. I checked it out and discovered it was a local press (in my city). It's small, they don't publish very many titles, do POD and eBooks. I decided, what the hell, I read their submissions and decided to "test the waters" and see if they'd be interested in my novel. I also wanted to test their acceptance threshold. Did they accept just about anything? (No, their catalogue is pretty small.) But would they accept my book, the one every agent in the U.S. rejected?

After a month, yes, they accepted.

I feel like I should be rejoicing, but I keep coming back to the old axiom: it's better to not be published than badly published.

Is going with this small press "badly published?" I checked out their books on amazon. The covers are not bad, and the sample I read had a grammatical error and punctuation error on the first page, but the story was compelling enough to keep me reading the first three pages. And it wasn't bad prose or anything.

So here's what gives me pause.

Do I go through with this? Obviously there will be little bookstore presence outside of a few local ones. I don't know what kind of promotion they do, but googling their name does show they're active in attending conventions and things. I just can't see any information on the experience of the owners. I have a feeling this is an author-turned-publisher kind of business. And this isn't always an avenue for failure, but it can be.

Since this is a trunked novel, I have nothing really to lose.

Thoughts?
 

Calla Lily

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underthecity, you'd get better answers if you asked to have this thread moved to the thread about the publisher in BR&BC. Because no one can really give you useful advice if we don't know which pub you're talking about. :)
 

quicklime

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Since this is a trunked novel, I have nothing really to lose.

Thoughts?


except the possibility of ever fixing it to sell"properly" and possibly some reputation.



beyond that, what calla said--those are things you DO stand to lose, but without knowing the publisher it is hard to say anything about the wisdom or folly of using them
 

underthecity

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I didn't want to mention the name of the publisher in this thread just yet. I did read the thread in BR&BC forum and it doesn't have anything negative in it, and it turns out the owner does have experience, just not specifically in publishing. The authors in the thread (all with four or five posts apiece) all gave positive experiences.
 

kaitie

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I wouldn't accept an offer from anyone with grammar problems in a sample. It shows editing problems, and often is a sign of an inexperienced publisher.

If your book came out with similar errors, the reviews are likely to comment on it--and not favorably. You'll sell fewer books than if you went with a more professional one.

That's my opinion, anyway. Check them out in the B&BC section and see what other people say, but unless I was 100% impressed with the products, I wouldn't go with them because I'd want more than that for my books.
 

leahzero

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If their distribution is near nonexistent, and their books go to press with grammatical errors (which suggests poor/nonexistent editing), then what do you have to gain from going with this press as opposed to self-publishing?
 

Katrina S. Forest

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I didn't want to mention the name of the publisher in this thread just yet. I did read the thread in BR&BC forum and it doesn't have anything negative in it, and it turns out the owner does have experience, just not specifically in publishing. The authors in the thread (all with four or five posts apiece) all gave positive experiences.

Okay, I'm going to make some very general statements. Without knowing the publisher by name, it's impossible to tell which of these actually apply to your situation and which don't.

I feel like one month is a pretty fast turn around for a full manuscript. Most pro short story markets take at least that long. Now this could mean any number of things, ranging from the company being incredibly efficient to the company taking on any manuscript that isn't outright unreadable. (Again, without a name, it's impossible to guess.)

If the owner has some other business experience, that may not bring anything to the table at all. Publishing demands a unique set of skills and knowledge that you wouldn't get from owning a business outside of it, even a fairly successful one.

Positive comments from current authors are always good signs, but I would try to get more information that that. What, specifically, will this publishing company do for you that you can't do for yourself?

As others have said, you do have some things to lose. If nothing else, you only get one book that you can stamp "debut novelist" on, only one book that won't come with any previous sales numbers behind it.

If you don't want this trunked novel to be that book, I'd say thanks, but no thanks, and in the future, don't submit work unless you really mean it. It's not your responsibility to test the quality bar at this publisher. Their standard of quality is already reflected in the books they've previously published. Let aspiring authors judge from there.
 

Al Stevens

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A publisher who puts into the public eye works--sample pages, book descriptions, website content, etc.--with glaring errors does not understand two things: 1) how to edit and 2) the importance of the marketplace's perception of them. Do you want them to be your publisher?
 

Mustafa

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I'd worry less about "debut author" status, as it really isn't that big of a deal, and more about the publisher. What can they do for you? I'm constantly amazed by how excited authors are when they get a contract offer from a know-nothing, new and unproven, publisher who is only going to slap a cover on your book and put it on Amazon. I mean, any joe can do that, and the editors they're getting, you can get yourself.

Just look very closely at that. I always thought the mantra of 'better not published, than published badly' was related to getting a deal with a bad press rather than putting out a bad book.
 

Susan Coffin

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Why don't you want to mention the publisher? That's the only way you will get any real information on them.

It sounds like you have big reservations. Listen to your gut. If I saw errors in the first few pages of editing, I would not want to publish with them. It reads too much like inexperience publishing and perhaps poor editing.

There are many small publishers who have been around for years and turn out excellent books. Their list just isn't as long as bigger publishing houses. You need to choose a publisher that is best for you (and that has a good reputation, of course).

I am a firm believe that it is better to not be published than to be published badly, but small publisher does not mean badly unless they have a bad reputation and/or don't pay attention to the books they are putting out.

So, what does you gut tell you?
 

Phaeal

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If they can't do something significant for you that you couldn't do for yourself through self-publishing, I'd call it a no-go. It sounds like they won't even put print books into local stores (unless, I suppose, the local stores order themselves some PODs. I don't know any independents that do this, but hey, mine isn't a huge sample set.)
 

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What you will get from a press depends on the press, large or small. And just because the B&BC thread isn't full of fire and screaming does not mean they will do a good job.

Look at how they did with other books. Would you be happy with that?
 

Mustafa

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If I were going to go with a small press, I'd want to look at the authors they've worked with. Do I want to be associated with that group? Are there any names you recognize? Any authors who have gone onward and upward? Where are the editors from? Where did they get their experience? Who reads their books?
 

underthecity

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Thanks for all the feedback. I was away from the computer most of the day and couldn't respond individually.

The publisher is this one, to answer the main question.


Why would you want this novel published when you know it needs a lot of work?
I still think it's a good story, and if a publisher were actually interested, I would expect feedback on what they expect me to do with it before they publish it. However, they want to add it to their "2012 catalogue," which seems really soon. I emailed this morning and asked about editing and developmental editing, but haven't gotten a reply.

I wouldn't accept an offer from anyone with grammar problems in a sample. It shows editing problems, and often is a sign of an inexperienced publisher.

If your book came out with similar errors, the reviews are likely to comment on it--and not favorably.
My thoughts too. That was kind of a red flag.

If their distribution is near nonexistent, and their books go to press with grammatical errors (which suggests poor/nonexistent editing), then what do you have to gain from going with this press as opposed to self-publishing?
I don't want to self publish. A small press might be good for it. It's worked out for other authors around AW.

If you've revised it, why not try querying agents again?
I haven't revised it. It's still trunked.

If you don't want this trunked novel to be that book, I'd say thanks, but no thanks, and in the future, don't submit work unless you really mean it. It's not your responsibility to test the quality bar at this publisher. Their standard of quality is already reflected in the books they've previously published. Let aspiring authors judge from there.
Yeah, I've been thinking along the same lines. The thing is, I saw that post in Announcements from the other AW member who was so excited about getting her book published and making her dreams come true. I wondered about the publisher and looked it up and also wondered what kind of rejection threshold they had. I sent them mine. And mine needs work.

A publisher who puts into the public eye works--sample pages, book descriptions, website content, etc.--with glaring errors does not understand two things: 1) how to edit and 2) the importance of the marketplace's perception of them. Do you want them to be your publisher?
No, not really. But the website's not so bad and neither are the descriptions. It's not bad. But the samples were lacking in some editing.

I'd worry less about "debut author" status, as it really isn't that big of a deal, and more about the publisher. What can they do for you? I'm constantly amazed by how excited authors are when they get a contract offer from a know-nothing, new and unproven, publisher who is only going to slap a cover on your book and put it on Amazon. I mean, any joe can do that, and the editors they're getting, you can get yourself.

Just look very closely at that. I always thought the mantra of 'better not published, than published badly' was related to getting a deal with a bad press rather than putting out a bad book.
It happens a lot, and we've read horror stories on AW about really bad presses.

It sounds like you have big reservations. Listen to your gut. If I saw errors in the first few pages of editing, I would not want to publish with them. It reads too much like inexperience publishing and perhaps poor editing.

There are many small publishers who have been around for years and turn out excellent books. Their list just isn't as long as bigger publishing houses. You need to choose a publisher that is best for you (and that has a good reputation, of course).

I am a firm believe that it is better to not be published than to be published badly, but small publisher does not mean badly unless they have a bad reputation and/or don't pay attention to the books they are putting out.

So, what does you gut tell you?
That there are better options out there. I wanted to see what other AWers had to say.

If they can't do something significant for you that you couldn't do for yourself through self-publishing, I'd call it a no-go. It sounds like they won't even put print books into local stores (unless, I suppose, the local stores order themselves some PODs. I don't know any independents that do this, but hey, mine isn't a huge sample set.)
According to the email I got, they say they try to get books into local bookstores that take small press books. I know of a bookstore that had a stack of authorhouse books that were overpriced and supposedly selling.

Sounds like you've decided and just want affirmation. I say look at some other stuff they've published and see what company you're in. Then make a decision.
I didn't think the other books were bad. But I did want to see if a small press would be interested in my much-rejected book.

What you will get from a press depends on the press, large or small. And just because the B&BC thread isn't full of fire and screaming does not mean they will do a good job.

Look at how they did with other books. Would you be happy with that?
I didn't think the other books were bad. I do think other presses could be better.

If I were going to go with a small press, I'd want to look at the authors they've worked with. Do I want to be associated with that group? Are there any names you recognize? Any authors who have gone onward and upward? Where are the editors from? Where did they get their experience? Who reads their books?
No recognizable names, and it doesn't matter what company I keep with the other authors. No word on any of the editors, there's no mention of any experience on the website. And no idea who reads their books. They haven't been around long.
 

Dancre

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After reading the other posts, you might be right. I say, post the name under the beware and see what others say. If others have had good experiences, then it might be a good beginning.

I have a few reservations.

I had submitted my horror novel to about 150 or so agents, it was rejected by everyone. I never submitted to publishers. Last year I did a beta swap with another AW member, and this member pointed out a lot of problems with the story. I agreed with her assessment and decided to trunk it, thinking I might revisit in the future and do a massive rewrite if need be.

Since then, I've written a YA novel that is currently being queried (with two current fulls out).

Two months ago an AW member posted in Announcements about her new book coming out. I checked it out and discovered it was a local press (in my city). It's small, they don't publish very many titles, do POD and eBooks. I decided, what the hell, I read their submissions and decided to "test the waters" and see if they'd be interested in my novel. I also wanted to test their acceptance threshold. Did they accept just about anything? (No, their catalogue is pretty small.) But would they accept my book, the one every agent in the U.S. rejected?

After a month, yes, they accepted.

I feel like I should be rejoicing, but I keep coming back to the old axiom: it's better to not be published than badly published.

Is going with this small press "badly published?" I checked out their books on amazon. The covers are not bad, and the sample I read had a grammatical error and punctuation error on the first page, but the story was compelling enough to keep me reading the first three pages. And it wasn't bad prose or anything.

So here's what gives me pause.

Do I go through with this? Obviously there will be little bookstore presence outside of a few local ones. I don't know what kind of promotion they do, but googling their name does show they're active in attending conventions and things. I just can't see any information on the experience of the owners. I have a feeling this is an author-turned-publisher kind of business. And this isn't always an avenue for failure, but it can be.

Since this is a trunked novel, I have nothing really to lose.

Thoughts?
 
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Polenth

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No recognizable names, and it doesn't matter what company I keep with the other authors.

The point of who they've published isn't about whether you want to hang out with the authors. It's a measure of success. If the press is succeeding at putting out a quality product and making a name for itself, some of their new talent should have gone on to do other things (a sign they're choosing quality work) and some established talent will have submitted to them (a sign they've established a good reputation in the industry).

You will be associated with other authors at the press, simply because those authors are part of how people judge the press. If those authors only have a name for not-there-yet and could-do-better, that's exactly how your book will be judged.

(I'm talking in generalities here, rather than the press in particular, as I don't know anything about them. But you do want to look up the other authors, to see what else they've done and what the low star reviews for their books say. It will reflect on you and your book.)
 

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Just my two cents.

I could never be happy publishing a book that I knew I could have made better. It would tarnish the feeling of success I expect to get from publishing.
 

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I didn't want to mention the name of the publisher in this thread just yet. I did read the thread in BR&BC forum and it doesn't have anything negative in it, and it turns out the owner does have experience, just not specifically in publishing. The authors in the thread (all with four or five posts apiece) all gave positive experiences.

It's worth noting that none of the authors who posted on the BR&BC thread are members participating actively here at AW, each having only a handful of posts. Folks who swoop in to post warm fuzzies about their pubilsher and then swoop out again are seldom super-duper objective. After all, a lot of people with PubliSHAMerica are happy with their publisher, too.

What you have to look at is the quality of the books a publisher puts out and their track record of sales.
 

bearilou

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It's worth noting that none of the authors who posted on the BR&BC thread are members participating actively here at AW, each having only a handful of posts. Folks who swoop in to post warm fuzzies about their pubilsher and then swoop out again are seldom super-duper objective. After all, a lot of people with PubliSHAMerica are happy with their publisher, too.

I was just going to make this same comment. Three "I'm So Happy With Them" comments in a row, each with less than 10 posts to their name here.

Not to say this press is or isn't good but 'AW members happy with them' isn't exactly the case here.
 

seun

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In your position, I wouldn't go with this publisher. If I thought the book still had potential, I'd revise the hell out of it and get that bad boy back out there.
 

underthecity

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In your position, I wouldn't go with this publisher. If I thought the book still had potential, I'd revise the hell out of it and get that bad boy back out there.
I've been thinking about that too. It would require major revision. And maybe by the time it's finished, the market for horror might be changed so publishers are considering it again.
 

BunnyMaz

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Ignoring the issue of the publisher, why would you want to publish a piece of work that you trunked because it needed major improvements? Regardless of who the publisher is, the quality of that piece will hang over you for a very long time.
 
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