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Ohgodaspider
06-06-2012, 07:48 AM
I'm looking for a type of weapon that is often associated with magic, but can double as a melee weapon, and be easily concealed. If at all possible I'd like to avoid the ever popular wand and staff.

ThunderBoots
06-06-2012, 08:13 AM
Sounds a bit obvious, but how about a sword?

Lots of sword-in-the-stone precedents (i.e. enchanted swords).

Ohgodaspider
06-06-2012, 08:27 AM
I need to edit my original post to make it concealable.

Jay Jennings
06-06-2012, 08:31 AM
Melee weapons are typically stabby/cutty things, or clubby things. Taking a look at this list on Wikipedia and scanning down through it I don't see a lot that jumps out at me as something that is typically thought of as magic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_melee_weapons

A couple that do could be thought of simply as another type of staff, such is the Irish shillelagh.

Maybe that list will give you some ideas you can work with.

Jay

Ohgodaspider
06-06-2012, 08:41 AM
I already scanned that list. Nothing.

Dreity
06-06-2012, 08:56 AM
What about a kris? Their length varies, but they can certainly be made small enough to be concealable. Many legends in Indonesian folklore mention krises with supernatural abilities, and the culture at large viewed them as magical talismans and often carried them as part of their ceremonial dress. They also really liked for their krises to be pretty; there are some seriously cool, intricately designed krises out there, so you can have a lot of fun with the description.

Ohgodaspider
06-06-2012, 09:15 AM
Hrmmm. I'll check it out. Keep em coming.

RichardGarfinkle
06-06-2012, 12:21 PM
The Athame might be of use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athame

But many weapons have been of use in different forms of magic. Are you drawing on a particular tradition?

writania3
06-06-2012, 12:25 PM
I have found this two sites that might help you decide on what weapon associated with magic you will be using. Hope you could find one there.


[links removed by moderator]

onesecondglance
06-06-2012, 12:30 PM
Magical daggers are reasonably well-established. Especially the Kris as Dreity mentioned.

areteus
06-06-2012, 01:27 PM
In many magical traditions the sword is common as it represents one of the elements and is used as a ritual tool (others including the wand and the chalice). This is sometimes replaced (for convenience more than anything) with a dagger or athame (convenience because they are easier to carry).

However, these are ritual tools and therefore considered sacred. You would not use an athame to peel potatoes or stab someone save in extremis.

The staff is sometimes used instead of a wand (well, like the sword/dagger thing it is likely that a wand is a more convenient tool than a staff). There are also links with druidic traditions and certain other primitive practises where decorated staves are used.

The main reason why daggers and staves are linked with mages in RPGs, however, is more to do with game balance. Mages in AD&D were not allowed to use the same weapons and armour as other classes. Later games (like Rolemaster) added reasons for this linked to not being able to carry large quantities of metal because it interfered with the channelling of magic. Therefore a dagger is fine because it is only a small amount of metal and a staff is also fine because there is no metal. However, the root reason is purely game balance. In your setting there is nothing to stop you from having your mages use any weapon they feel like.

In one RPG I played (Dragon Warriors - if you have heard of it outside the UK I would be very surprised...) sorcerors were allowed to use short swords. This allowed me to create a character who was a Roman style 'artillery' magician - a battle wizard who carried a gladius. So it comes down to your setting and how you want things to play out.

A suggestion may be to design something unique - a weapon with an unusual design. That could make it something you have more control over and you can work in reasons why they use it into your background.

The reas

lbender
06-06-2012, 05:17 PM
You never mentioned 'when' your story takes place. I mention this because I've seen more modern stories with magic, and I've seen cops with short batons that elongate into clubs. Something like this might work.

Ohgodaspider
06-06-2012, 06:35 PM
Story takes place present day, in the USA, Northeastern Region/New England

lbender
06-06-2012, 08:53 PM
If present day, that greatly expands your possibilities. The already mentioned baton, a short staff with concealed blade, something specially made up, etc.

dirtsider
06-06-2012, 09:19 PM
A cane or walking stick. Particularly if the mage in question is a Rennie or Steampunk. (Rennies are people who are part of or often go to Renn Fairs.) So walking canes and staffs are often sold at Renn Fairs and Steampunk events and conventions.

How about brass knuckles?

You might want to watch/read the Dresden Files. That takes place in modern day Chicago. Harry Dresden uses a hockey stick as a staff.

Yeah, I played D&D and preferred the spell caster classes. So I remember the restrictions. I think a good "logical" reason is that it takes a lot of time to learn how to read and cast spells and everything else related to the mage class. Just as it takes an equal amount of time to learn how to use a sword, shield and armor well. Yes, you can learn both but focusing on one or the other makes the person better at the chosen "profession". That's my take on it. :) Yes, I'm such a geek.

Drachen Jager
06-06-2012, 09:41 PM
SwitchWand, a wand with a retractable blade.

:)

Buffysquirrel
06-06-2012, 10:50 PM
If you use magic to conceal it, it can be anything at all.

thothguard51
06-06-2012, 11:18 PM
It's your world, enchant anything you want to use as a weapon. Just make sure you have a good explanation for its use...

Lots of fantasy stories running around with mini crossbows, those are pretty neat. Good against vampires and zombies as well...

Dave Hardy
06-07-2012, 01:06 AM
A snub-nosed .357. Milled from meteoric iron on a moonless night and tempered in the blood of a unbaptized babe. Loaded with hollow point rounds, muzzle velocity of 1400 feet/second. Each hollow point holds one grain of the corpse-dust of Samuel Colt. And they're silver. Concealed-carry permit is of course required.

For melee purposes, just pistol-whip the victim.

Ohgodaspider
06-07-2012, 01:23 AM
A cane or walking stick. Particularly if the mage in question is a Rennie or Steampunk. (Rennies are people who are part of or often go to Renn Fairs.) So walking canes and staffs are often sold at Renn Fairs and Steampunk events and conventions.

How about brass knuckles?

You might want to watch/read the Dresden Files. That takes place in modern day Chicago. Harry Dresden uses a hockey stick as a staff.

Yeah, I played D&D and preferred the spell caster classes. So I remember the restrictions. I think a good "logical" reason is that it takes a lot of time to learn how to read and cast spells and everything else related to the mage class. Just as it takes an equal amount of time to learn how to use a sword, shield and armor well. Yes, you can learn both but focusing on one or the other makes the person better at the chosen "profession". That's my take on it. :) Yes, I'm such a geek.

Big fan of the Dresden Files, but I'm really leaning away from the staff/wands. They just are not viable as a melee weapon (wands) or concealable (staves). I liked the idea of a kris or a collapsible baton

lbender
06-07-2012, 01:23 AM
Actually, if I remember correctly, Mercedes Lackey, in her Diana Tregarde stories, had her heroine magician use a gun on a regular basis, although the ammunition may have changed depending on the target.

Laurell Hamilton's Anita Blake, although not straight magic, also uses guns feequently.

Ohgodaspider
06-07-2012, 01:42 AM
I don't disagree with guns, in the appropriate genre but I dislike them in fantasy. :P

Sorry if I'm sounding difficult.

Xelebes
06-07-2012, 02:19 AM
If everything looks like a nail, use a hammer.

(Thor's Hammer, Ukka's Hammer, Weyland's Hammer, Hephaestes' Hammer, Vulcan's Hammer, etc.)

Lhipenwhe
06-07-2012, 03:53 AM
This might be a bit of a stretch, but the scythe can be associated with death magic; most modern portrayals of the Grim Reaper have him carrying a scythe. Doesn't need to be a big one, either; the Kama is a small Japanese scythe.

Whips/scourges/ect ect have been associated with devils, and if you could enhance it with magic (setting things it hits on fire, for example), they'd be viable.

Hope those were helpful.

ThunderBoots
06-07-2012, 07:23 AM
A snub-nosed .357. Milled from meteoric iron on a moonless night and tempered in the blood of a unbaptized babe. Loaded with hollow point rounds, muzzle velocity of 1400 feet/second. Each hollow point holds one grain of the corpse-dust of Samuel Colt. And they're silver. Concealed-carry permit is of course required.

For melee purposes, just pistol-whip the victim.

Ha! Love it!

I personally would love to see a Magic Taser worked into a story ...

rainsmom
06-07-2012, 07:20 PM
Phurba. Used in Tibetan magick, and it's a kickass weapon.

EngineerTiger
06-07-2012, 07:31 PM
I'm partial to Bowie knives myself. You could imbue it with the fightin' spirit of Jim Bowie himself. Maybe someone found it in the ruins of the Alamo.

NikkiSloan
06-07-2012, 10:41 PM
Could always used a wicked long fingernail tipped with razor-sharp metal or dipped in deadly poison, like from the poison dart frog or monkshood.

dirtsider
06-08-2012, 03:59 AM
Well, Dresden Files was the one series I recall where the mage/wizard used a magical weapon. In his case, the hockey stick. But I was also thinking there may be other things in the series that might spark ideas.

Then again, there's always the handy-dandy magically enhanced rock....

Xelebes
06-08-2012, 05:23 AM
Then again, there's always the handy-dandy magically enhanced rock....

I was going to recommend a thunderstone.

YeonAh
06-09-2012, 03:50 AM
In Tales of Symphonia, a magic-user uses a kendama (http://web-japan.org/kidsweb/virtual/kendama/images/kendama.jpg). He also uses it as a melee weapon (I'm assuming by whacking people with the ball at the end?). A little out-there, but using a toy as a weapon would be interesting. You could try a yo-yo, whack people with it and tie them up with the string.

Ohgodaspider
06-11-2012, 09:51 AM
Ha! Love it!

I personally would love to see a Magic Taser worked into a story ...

I have never considered this at all. It sounds ridiculously cool! :D

Dave Hardy
06-11-2012, 06:25 PM
Phurba. Used in Tibetan magick, and it's a kickass weapon.

Isn't a phurba a symbolic thunderbolt? IIRC it's a dagger blade with a pommel of projecting flanges making a sort of cage-work. Very distinctive in appearance, part dagger, part truncheon.

Rainsmom makes a good point about its use in magick. A phurba is a magic weapon in the sense it is designed for magic, but is in the form of a weapon. I don't recall if it is more associated with Bon or Buddhism. I think it's intended to be symbolic, but I could see a left-hand path wizard using it for a bit of mayhem.

EDIT: I was getting the phurba mixed up with the dorje, which is the thunderbolt. Phurbas still have a hefty pommel. I don't think dorjes are conceptualized as weapons, but if some Tibetan thug walloped one with bronze "thunderbolt" it would surely leave a mark.

L. Y.
07-13-2012, 07:49 AM
Did anyone mention a cane sword? A sword concealed in the handle of a cane or walking stick?

areteus
07-13-2012, 12:25 PM
This might be a bit of a stretch, but the scythe can be associated with death magic; most modern portrayals of the Grim Reaper have him carrying a scythe. Doesn't need to be a big one, either; the Kama is a small Japanese scythe.



A sickle might be more appropriate here. They are usually linked with druidic magic because of the usefulness in harvesting plants for use in magic. Far easier to carry than a scythe...

Which is another point. This is modern day. Characters walking around with significant metal work are going to attract attention from the authorities. Ok, a knife or gun can be concealed and a walking stick/sword cane can be unobtrusive (though if you listen you can hear the blade rattling inside a sword cane) but a staff is a little obvious in a modern context as is any thing like a sword. The ren fair excuse might let you get away with it sometimes but not always and you might still get searching questions (this is based on my own experiences and those of friends of dealing with police when carrying a hell of a lot of weapons...) On one occasion a friend of mine was accussed of being the get away driver for a burglary (he happened to be parked outside reading a map while the crime was occuring) and he had a boot full of fake firearms and weapons. He managed to explain it to the police but they insisted on escorting him to the event he claimed to be going to in order to confirm his story.

So, you do have to think about what is normal in your world in terms of weapons being carried. Also, why is a modern day character bothering with an ancient weapon when there are guns about?

BTW, the hockey stick thing is purely the series. In the books he uses a staff and has a blasting rod. Dresden in the books is more Gandalf the grey than the urban fantasy guy who tries to blend in with the mundane world he is in the series.

Cath
07-13-2012, 01:55 PM
The OP is no longer here folks, and because this skirts the realm of fantasy, I'm closing.