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Puddle Jumper
01-04-2006, 08:19 AM
Does anyone here think pre-cognition is possible? Pre-cognition being the ability to see things before they happen.

William Haskins
01-04-2006, 08:37 AM
i don't, no.

AdamH
01-04-2006, 08:40 AM
I think it's possible. Sure. But that would mean that the future is already written and set. And I don't like to believe that.

So I believe it's possible to see a potential future but it's not written in stone. Take "A Christmas Carol" for example. The Ghost of Christmas Future showed Scrooge his future if he stayed on his path of greed and solitude. His future of dying alone wasn't any more false than what his outcome would be when he changed his ways.

That's how I see it. Sometimes a precognition can be a warning to change your ways. Other times it can be something to strive for.

Now, are precognitions actual clips of the future or are they snippets triggered by something else to make you aware of something? Well, that's another discussion all together.

paprikapink
01-04-2006, 08:47 AM
Ohhhhh. I was thinking pre-cognition would be when my 7-year-old starts saying "I know. I know!" as soon as I start to explain to her something about which she knows bupkus.

Puddle Jumper
01-04-2006, 08:52 AM
I think it's possible. Sure. But that would mean that the future is already written and set. And I don't like to believe that.

So I believe it's possible to see a potential future but it's not written in stone. Take "A Christmas Carol" for example. The Ghost of Christmas Future showed Scrooge his future if he stayed on his path of greed and solitude. His future of dying alone wasn't any more false than what his outcome would be when he changed his ways.

That's how I see it. Sometimes a precognition can be a warning to change your ways. Other times it can be something to strive for.

Now, are precognitions actual clips of the future or are they snippets triggered by something else to make you aware of something? Well, that's another discussion all together.
So you don't like to believe real prophecies can be made either? :)

I do think it's possible though I don't know of any actual cases of such.

The idea in a way creeps me out. But then I get creeped out at how often I'll think of a particular tv show episode of a tv show I haven't seen in ages, then a day or so later while I'm surfing I'll suddenly see that exact episode of that show on tv. Or most recent on my way to work I was thinking about the Billy Joel Song that begins "Goodbye England's Rose (or Norma Jean)" a song I hadn't heard in ages and have no idea why it poppped into my head, and then that morning at work I heard the song on the radio. The idea, then, of someone being able to see or think of things more than that and then seeing them happen I think is a bit creepy. But I think it's possible.

How about Deja-Voo?

reph
01-04-2006, 09:33 AM
...that would mean that the future is already written and set. And I don't like to believe that.
That's what precognition would mean, all right. I don't believe the future is set, not because I don't like to (not liking the idea wouldn't be a good enough reason to disbelieve it), but because a set future is inconsistent with the way causation works as I understand it.

I do, however, understand what it feels like to believe the future is set. In my teens, I felt it was.

Optimus
01-04-2006, 10:24 AM
No, I don't believe in it.

tiny
01-04-2006, 10:31 AM
I believe some people have the ability to see what might happen through a keen ability to take in all factors and process then well. Kind of a Sherlock Holms thing. This might be confused by a person as 'seeing the future'.

I think most people can say at one time or another they have watched a situation unfold and they new the outcome. Either they knew how the people involved would react or they just sorta guessed correctly by watching the events leading up to it.

But to the future set in stone, for me, is a frightening thought. Means nothing really matters.

Puddle Jumper
01-04-2006, 10:37 AM
But to the future set in stone, for me, is a frightening thought. Means nothing really matters.
I think it depends upon how you look at it.

If somebody 1000 years ago saw a glimpse into their future and saw what we now see as history, would that mean they saw a future set in stone or merely the future resulting from the choices people made?

I don't see the ability to see into the future meaning the future is "set in stone" but as the ability to see the results of peoples choices.

I don't think such person would be able to change the future they saw because I think the future would reflect any choices they attempted to make because of what they saw.

I think it also depends upon how you view "time."

tiny
01-04-2006, 10:42 AM
Doesn't that mean "seeing into the future" is just being able to understand the consequences, good or bad, or our actions bring?

Then, really, every forward thinker saw into the future. Da Vinci saw man fly long before he did. Is that seeing into the future or just having the ability to dream?

Puddle Jumper
01-04-2006, 10:46 AM
Doesn't that mean "seeing into the future" is just being able to understand the consequences, good or bad, or our actions bring?

Then, really, every forward thinker saw into the future. Da Vinci saw man fly long before he did. Is that seeing into the future or just having the ability to dream?
No, you're talking about looking at the world around us and interpreting what you see and hear and based on that, being able to make an educated guess as to where mankind is headed.

That's totally different than being able to see the future and report what you saw. It's the difference between guesswork and unquestionably knowing.

tiny
01-04-2006, 10:51 AM
No, you're talking about looking at the world around us and interpreting what you see and hear and based on that, being able to make an educated guess as to where mankind is headed.

That's totally different than being able to see the future and report what you saw. It's the difference between guesswork and unquestionably knowing.


But if the future is not set in stone, than there is no unquestionably knowing. It may change. (I know, I'm splitting hairs :) )

reph
01-04-2006, 10:54 AM
If somebody 1000 years ago saw a glimpse into their future and saw what we now see as history, would that mean they saw a future set in stone or merely the future resulting from the choices people made?
You said "their" future, not "the" future, so I'm not sure you want to consider this kind of example, but you said "history," so maybe you do. Nobody 1000 years ago could have predicted the invention of the telephone or the electric light. Nobody could have said that someday the southern part of North America would be a nation consisting of 50 states. Those things didn't follow from choices people had made at that time.

If anyone could have made such predictions and necessarily have been right Ė that is, not by lucky guessing Ė then the conditions that made the predictions accurate (lights, phones, and the U.S. exist) would have been inevitable. They weren't inevitable. They were contingent. Things could have turned out differently.

brokenfingers
01-04-2006, 11:54 AM
Hmmmm, interesting question. Once again a post forces me to actually formulate all the random and barely coherent thoughts in my head and put them in some semblence of order that makes a kind of sense to others who don't inhabit my internal wasteland. Here goes:

I think there is more to this universe than just what us humans can see, hear, taste, smell or feel. I've always felt that we've only touched on some of the, what I call facets of the universe, but are commonly referred to as planes or dimensions.

I feel that is why there are so many unexplained incidences of strange phenomena occurring and why it seems so impossible to prove or disprove.

I think Time as we see it and the way we now interpret it is akin to how people once thought the Earth was flat or believed that a person was sick because of spirits in the body. Just like them, all we really know right now is what we see and so we make our judgements accordingly.

I also think it's the height of foolishness to think that mankind currently knows all the laws of the universe, that we have learned it all and know how everything works.

They say that the majority of the human brain is not actually used. You can call me crazy - and my doctors will no doubt agree - but I think that as humans develop the ability to utilize more and more of their mind, these other levels of the universe which are not readily available now, will open up to us.

Who here can deny the power and the mystery of the human mind? No one can deny that there are some people who have done and experienced some amazing things in this world - things that seem to defy normal scientific explanation.

I think, yes, it is possible to see a glimpse of the future, but that our limited understanding of time leads us to get caught up in the seeming paradoxes of free will, destiny, choices etc. We're as yet unable to see the workings of time or truly understand it. All we can do is measure it. And make our own guesses as to how it works based on what our currently available senses tell us.

I believe (and my doctors are working on this) that some people's minds can sometimes slip and open up a doorway that allows them to pierce the veil of time. Just as I believe that some people's minds can slip and leave them in a bad way also.

Of course the only reason I can tell you this right now is because I haven't yet taken the little pill the nice lady in the white dress gave me.

In the morning I wont even remember this.....

mdin
01-04-2006, 12:12 PM
I don't want to hijack the miner thread, but a perfect example of this just happened right before my ears only a few minutes ago.

Sylvia Brown at this moment is on Coast to Coast am giving predictions about the coming year. When the show started, the news was that 1 miner had died and 12 more were alive. He asked her if she had predicted that, and she said "Oh, I knew they were alive the whole time."

Well, she was wrong. The news says the initial reports were wrong, and the miners are dead.

It's bs. All of it.

L M Ashton
01-04-2006, 12:54 PM
Yep, I think it's possible. I know that I've had dreams in which certain things happened, and in reality, they happened years or decades later. Not many, but it's happened. *shrug* These things can be interpreted in a lot of different ways.

Having said that, though, I don't believe that precognition takes away our choices. To me, the two are not exclusionary.

aadams73
01-04-2006, 02:15 PM
Sylvia Brown at this moment is on Coast to Coast am giving predictions about the coming year. When the show started, the news was that 1 miner had died and 12 more were alive. He asked her if she had predicted that, and she said "Oh, I knew they were alive the whole time."


Sylvia Brown is the worst of hacks. Has she ever been right about anything?

I like to believe in free will, and that we can shape our own future through our choices and actions.

brokenfingers
01-04-2006, 02:15 PM
I don't want to hijack the miner thread, but a perfect example of this just happened right before my ears only a few minutes ago.

Sylvia Brown at this moment is on Coast to Coast am giving predictions about the coming year. When the show started, the news was that 1 miner had died and 12 more were alive. He asked her if she had predicted that, and she said "Oh, I knew they were alive the whole time."

Well, she was wrong. The news says the initial reports were wrong, and the miners are dead.

It's bs. All of it.We're all entitled to our opinions, of course. And, obviously, there will be charlatans and fakes.

I'd just like to point out though, that just because some guy gets on TV and says he can save your soul for a measly donation of $100 and winds up ripping you off - it doesn't mean that there is no God or people cannot find redemption.

But then again, maybe I just write too much speculative fiction...

Carole
01-04-2006, 02:36 PM
If it doesn't exist, I would like to know what the name is for knowing something in advance. If it had a different name, would it be more acceptable an idea? I have most definitely experienced it on numerous occasions, although it is not what I would call a gift. I'm not a seer. I can't just decide to see into the future and then do it. (Although with the tarot, that does change the playing field considerably.)

I believe that it would be difficult for someone to believe in something that they have never seen or experienced, especially if it is deemed "Supernatural". Thing is, just because someone has never experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I didn't go to the moon and I have never held moon rocks. That doesn't mean I don't believe it's happened.

I don't mean for this to sound snotty, but too many times I have been confronted with the attitude of, "Well if *I* can't do it, then NO one can!" That's pretty sad if you ask me, not to mention narrow minded.

Then there's people like my mom who say that if you can or have experienced it, then it is "Of the Devil" and you're going straight to Hell. No passing GO and no collecting $200. Pretty weird for something that can and does spontaneously happen to curse my soul to Hell. Pretty irritating to be judged for it, too.

I guess I could pretend that the things I have seen that turned out precisely as I saw...down to the letter...didn't actually happen if it would make those who don't believe feel more confortable with not having experienced it.

Unique
01-04-2006, 04:43 PM
Yes, I do. I'll tell you why.

I was in the hospital. I was standing in my room talking to one of the nurses and my room mate. I said, 'That's my mom!' and I ran to the nurses station.
I held out my hand with a 'give me the phone, give me the phone, give me the phone' motion. The nurse at the desk looked at me like I was crazy. (I am, but that's a different story)

And then the phone rang. It was my mom.

Does that count?

Mark Anderson
01-04-2006, 07:05 PM
To some degree, yes. Every now and then I know what is going to happen for the next several seconds, which is particularly creepy when it involves other people. The longest it occurred for was when I was 13 and playing cards on a camping trip with some family. I knew in advance what everyone was going to say, which cards they had, what gestures they would make for about 3 minutes.

It's never happened with something important, just boring daily living. Not too useful. And I've noticed it happens much less often the older I get, maybe once a year now. I don't know if it's actual precognition, a minor stroke or some other unknown cause.

I do like that it implies that the world isn't as black and white as I normally assume.

rtilryarms
01-04-2006, 09:03 PM
Precognition? Sort of. Pre-ordainment? No. Destiny? yes with reservation.

Precognition and destiny, to me, is simple if you consider that certain events happen as a result of human traits and deeds. Destiny is variable and predictable in many ways. I think precognition is not as possible as good intuition is. When i write my stories stories i am delving deep into these philosphies which have strong martial arts backing.

maestrowork
01-04-2006, 09:06 PM
I saw this thread coming two days ago.

Bingo!

Shadow_Ferret
01-04-2006, 09:15 PM
No. I dont believe in it.

maestrowork
01-04-2006, 09:15 PM
On a serious note, I do think "foreseeing the future" is possible only if you realize that the future one sees is only a "possibility" and not set in stone. Some also call it "destiny" but as we know, we can change our destinies if we want to. My own limited experiences told me that all that is possible. I had seen, in my dreams, events in the "future" that actually came true. I was blown away, but could I honestly say they were just coincidence? I can't. I can't prove it or disprove it. I just know what I experienced.

One such experience: In college. I was walking along a path on campus and I suddenly had a strong feeling that a person I knew was nearby. I couldn't explain it. I just knew. I thought it was stupid and crazy, but I still had that feeling. Then near the Heinz Chapel, for some reason I decided to stop and turn around, and about 15 feet behind me, there he was. I was shocked. He was just as shocked that I turned around like that, as if I knew he was there.

Bizarre, I know.

Now if you think of the past, present and future as all the possibilities already written (an analogy would be a video game... all the rules, happenings, etc. are already written on that DVD-ROM, but they're just possibilities. There are a gazillion ways to play the game with a gazillion outcomes)... then you may think that it IS possible to foresee a "future" -- a possibility based on certain "paths" or combination of events/consequences. Again, sort of like playing a video game -- by doing certain things, you may foresee what's going to happen in the next second or two, or two levels down the road... ;)

Oh, yeah, I am crazy.

NickDangr
01-04-2006, 09:17 PM
Precognition: I believe it does exist. Frequently I have dreams where something will happen, only to occur in life, a few days later. Unfortunately I've not yet dreamt lottery ticket numbers.

Destiny and preordainment: If they *do* exist, then someone has done a good job disguising the randomness of life around multiple pre-determined paths.

I think that arguing for or against either can easily become a religious discussion.

maestrowork
01-04-2006, 09:21 PM
Sylvia Brown at this moment is on Coast to Coast am giving predictions about the coming year. When the show started, the news was that 1 miner had died and 12 more were alive. He asked her if she had predicted that, and she said "Oh, I knew they were alive the whole time."


You can't base your conclusion on a hack like that. It's as if you said all publishers are scams by pointing at PublishAmerica.

ChunkyC
01-04-2006, 09:37 PM
I do believe in it. My wife regularly does it. The day before the tsunami hit, she woke up with a splitting headache and told me something terrible was about to happen. She did it with the bombing of the underground in London too. Time and time again, she's had feelings that something was about to happen, and within hours or a day or two at the most, it did.

However, I believe she's picking up on something that's making her feel uneasy, not actually predicting the future as in 'On Tuesday, three men will walk past your door wearing Nike sneakers.'

I think she's sensitive in ways I can't explain, but do believe that like many things, would make sense once we understand them. All I know is her 'spidey sense' is far too accurate to discount.

Julie Worth
01-04-2006, 09:49 PM
It's certainly possible, esp. thru dreams. An early aeronautical engineer, JW Dunne, wrote an interesting book on the subject eighty years ago--An Experiment With Time (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1571742344/qid=1136396761/sr=11-1/ref=sr_11_1/103-2202755-2168639?n=283155).

blisswriter
01-04-2006, 09:57 PM
I believe it because it happens to me a lot. I dream things that come to pass. Sometimes in a literal sense, but usually not. (Thank God.)

I've given the numbers from my dreams to friends, who in turn use them to play the lottery and win. Somehow, it never happens when I play the numbers tho. Oops, it did happen once, but it was over 20 years ago. It was the first time I ever played the lottery. I dreamed that I was at my aunt's job, eating ice cream. I looked up at the clock and saw that it was 9:18, which made me late for work.

When I woke up, I looked up the number for ice cream (Do y'all know what a dream book is?) and it was 819. I played the number and boxed it, for 50 cents. I won $40.

It turns out that my hubby (who I met 11 years ago) was born at 8:19. (A coincidence? LOL)

I don't call it pre-cognition. I just think of it as something that happens to me. I believe it happens to other people too.

DaveKuzminski
01-04-2006, 10:22 PM
I believe in post-cognition. ;)

Okay, jokes aside, there appear to be no explanations for some instances which appear to be pre-cognition.

I do not accept the claim of being able to predict that something bad will happen simply because on a global scale there is always something bad happening just as there is always something good taking place. In other words, the claim of pre-cognition has to be more refined than a general claim that something bad will happen. It has to be specific to the area and type of event. It also has to be an event that is not expected under current conditions. Therefore, claiming that someone will be killed is unlikely to fulfill that quantification while claiming that the leader of country X will be killed is quite specific and fits the need for essential detail to qualify as pre-cognition if it actually takes place unless the claimer is involved in the attempt to begin with. Then it's just a prediction based on known information.

I do believe that pre-cognition is possible since I have experienced it myself on a few isolated occasions concerning minor events unlikely to have any bearing toward proving or disproving the existence of pre-cognition. I do not claim to have any special power, but I think many people experience pre-cognition in their daily lives but that most don't realize it because most of their experiences are similarly on a low level involving minor events.

rtilryarms
01-04-2006, 11:15 PM
I saw this thread coming two days ago.

Bingo!


I predicted you would say that!

paprikapink
01-04-2006, 11:25 PM
Too bad this isn't a poll. Now someone has to go through and count up how many folks in the yes camp and in the no camp and the yes but or the no but camps. But first, any guesses as to the totals?

I fall into the brokenfingers category, with reservations. (I know others fall into the same basic category, but I think BF expressed it well, that's why I named it for him.) We forget what a tiny blip we are in the universe.

I don't put as much stock in the underused-brain part of the theory. I've got a suspicion that the human brain is not that great a factor in the workings of the universe.

Julie Worth
01-04-2006, 11:37 PM
When I woke up, I looked up the number for ice cream (Do y'all know what a dream book is?) and it was 819. I played the number and boxed it, for 50 cents. I won $40.

It turns out that my hubby (who I met 11 years ago) was born at 8:19. (A coincidence? LOL)


My birthday is 10/10. I donít remember how it began, but one day I got it in my head that this was my lucky number. I was seeing it everywhere. 1010...1010...1010. Even in magazines. It seemed that I had but to turn a page, and there was another watch set at ten after ten. Eerie, psychic stuff.



Then I learned the alternative explanation. That all clocks are set that way in advertisements, the better to show off the face.

brokenfingers
01-04-2006, 11:42 PM
I don't put as much stock in the underused-brain part of the theory. I've got a suspicion that the human brain is not that great a factor in the workings of the universe.I totally agree. What I was trying to say was that as the human brain develops - our ability to better understand the universe will increase.

The universe is what it is. The only thing that'll change is our perception of it.

blisswriter
01-04-2006, 11:56 PM
My birthday is 10/10. I donít remember how it began, but one day I got it in my head that this was my lucky number. I was seeing it everywhere. 1010...1010...1010. Even in magazines. It seemed that I had but to turn a page, and there was another watch set at ten after ten. Eerie, psychic stuff.



Then I learned the alternative explanation. That all clocks are set that way in advertisements, the better to show off the face.


Although I'm no longer a lottery fanatic Julie, I have to tell ya that 1010 was a 4-digit number that seemed to come out quite a bit in DC.

Before I sent my hubby to G.A., a woman who ran the corner store in our old neighborhood (where he played the lottery most often) told him to play 1010 one day. He did and he hit for a tidy sum. He gave her a nice tip as a "thank you".

I have a girlfriend back home who's dad hits 1010 several times a year. But he may be playing DC and MD 4-digit. I'm not sure.

Julie Worth
01-05-2006, 12:22 AM
...1010 was a...to play 1010 one ... hits 1010 several times a year.

And there it is again! It is lucky! It is!

mdin
01-05-2006, 12:26 AM
You can't base your conclusion on a hack like that. It's as if you said all publishers are scams by pointing at PublishAmerica.

That's true enough. It was just funny that I heard it happen, then clicked on this forum a minute later. I used to work as a telephone psychic while in college. I did it for six months, and I had person after person call and ask me if I thought they were psychic too.

I still think it's all phooey. We've all had those moments where something weird happens. I remember I was thinking of my grandmother, out of the blue, when the phone rang, and I learned that she died. I want to believe it's true because it's exciting, but I just can't.

It's all coincidence. At any given moment we have several strings of thought running through our head, and every now and then events collide.

rhymegirl
01-05-2006, 12:35 AM
Oh yeah? Well, I predict that someone will post something after this post.

trumancoyote
01-05-2006, 12:42 AM
Wrong, Biatch!

Hahah. Ahahah
Hahah.
Hah.

... D'oh!

blisswriter
01-05-2006, 01:03 AM
It's all coincidence. At any given moment we have several strings of thought running through our head, and every now and then events collide.


Coinky dink, living in tune, myoho, synchronicity, right living--there are many names for it. I think no matter what you/we call it, it's still the same phenomena. I believe we all have an innate intuition and some of us seem to have more incidences of it because we give more credence to the episodes we do have. (Just my two cents so don't get yer knickers in a bunch. ;))

For me, it's sometimes that little whisper that says "take your umbrella" as I'm headed out on a sunny day. I ignore it and whoosh! It pours later. Sometimes I'll argue with that voice. (Who wants the whispers to be right?) But my common sense tells me that the little voice has been right and what does it hurt to take my umbrella or the box of staples?

As long as it doesn't tell me to chop off a toe or run out into rush hour traffic on the freeway, I'm okay with it. Most of the time.

I keep a journal that has served as documentation for many of my intuitive moments. Some of them are quite pleasant but some are not. Some events have happened fairly soon after dreams but some have taken years to come about.

I do think some of it can be attributed to subconscious behaviors and/or activities such as being unaware that we've overheard something on telly or in another's conversation. I'm not sure how much of it can be explained away by these types of events though.

For example, about 15 years ago, I had a very vivid dream of being at a friend's house to play. We jumped rope in the street and played in front of her house. At one point, we walked a few blocks. I didn't recognize the friend or the neighborhood, but I never forgot how the area looked.

A few years ago, I went to Chicago to visit a friend I'd met online. I got out of the car at his house and a chill ran up my neck when I glanced up the street. My view was the same one I'd had in the dream I just described, empty lot, houses on the next street and all. It was very eerie.

rhymegirl
01-05-2006, 01:21 AM
Wrong, Biatch!

Hahah. Ahahah
Hahah.
Hah.

... D'oh!

What did you call me???

Ah, look!! My prediction came true! I am a true psychic!

trumancoyote
01-05-2006, 01:29 AM
I called you loverly :)

rhymegirl
01-05-2006, 01:37 AM
Uh huh. I further predict that Zach will say something either dirty or weird in the near future.

trumancoyote
01-05-2006, 01:41 AM
Damnit. Now you've cursed me to a life of behavery.

trumancoyote
01-05-2006, 02:22 AM
Heheh. Tomfoolery.

rhymegirl
01-05-2006, 02:49 AM
You know, right before I clicked on this thread I thought, "I have a feeling that Zach and Kathy are going to be in there fooling around!"

And there you have it. Up to their old tomfoolery again!

Hey! I resent that. Zach and I were not fooling around. We were very serious.

robeiae
01-05-2006, 02:52 AM
I predict this thread's time has come.