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thekingsguard
05-20-2012, 06:26 AM
Watched it. Reviewed it (http://korsgaardscommentary.blogspot.com/2012/05/battleship.html). Need a stiff drink and therapy now - its easily one of the worst movies I've seen in a while, and far worse than even the trailers would have you believe.

Has anyone else seen it?

Cyia
05-20-2012, 06:38 AM
I haven't seen it, but Cinemark bumped Avengers from the XD theater for it. Considering the tiny audience I saw leaving after the show, I think they might put Avengers back next week.

MttStrn
05-20-2012, 07:00 AM
I am just flabberwibbled that Entertainment Weekly actually liked it and gave it a B+.

BeatrixKiddo
05-20-2012, 07:17 AM
Gosh, I must be a sucker for special effects because I just happened to see this movie last night...and I liked it.

:chair

The audience I was with seemed to enjoy it as well.

J.S.F.
05-20-2012, 08:55 AM
My younger son (eight) made me take him and he thought it was boring. The characters were wooden, one-note, and boring for the most part. The cat-and-mouse game between the aliens and the destroyer actually built up some suspense and the 'trick' of finding out how to find the aliens was rather clever...but that took only about ten minutes at most.

Shame on Liam Neeson for appearing in this stinker! He must need the cash because this movie bored the crap out me, not to mention my son. Basing it on a board game? Lord have mercy. Great special effects but my God, it sucked! To those of you thinking about seeing it or taking your kids, buy them the game instead, play baseball or shoot some hoops with them, take them to another movie...but don't let them see this turkey.

Gobble, gobble....

Once!
05-20-2012, 01:25 PM
The boy and I were going to see it yesterday, but our local cinema had stopped showing it. That's a remarkably short run for a summer (ish) blockbuster. Sounds like we didn't miss much.

J.S.F.
05-20-2012, 01:52 PM
The boy and I were going to see it yesterday, but our local cinema had stopped showing it. That's a remarkably short run for a summer (ish) blockbuster. Sounds like we didn't miss much.
---

Consider yourself fortunate. You live to think another day. Watching that movie has been medically proven to rot brain cells and we all know they don't regenerate.

:D

fireluxlou
05-20-2012, 04:39 PM
Meh I enjoyed it.

dclary
05-20-2012, 07:31 PM
Every trailer that's come out has looked worse, more frenetic, less coherent than the next. I have been saying since at least early March that this looks to be the worst movie of the year, and will be this year's "Waterworld" (a feat that is hard to imagine, since John Carter has already sunk to amazingly deep levels of box-office-suckage).

While it had a decent $25 million estimated weekend take so far, far under the studio's expectations, the film tracks better overseas than John Carter did, and at least will make its money back.

Mee_sa
05-20-2012, 09:24 PM
Hmm, I enjoyed it as well..

Xelebes
05-20-2012, 10:00 PM
I hope to see it at the Turkey Shoot in a few months.

James D. Macdonald
05-20-2012, 11:08 PM
Has anyone else seen it?


Yes, I saw it.

Even by the standards of the Transformers films this is a bad movie. I could feel my IQ lowering with every minute I spent in the theater.

If you find that you have to see this, I'd recommend taking along earplugs. The dialog is worse than anything you could imagine, so just imagining what they're saying would be an improvement.

For all the time that's given to Liam Neeson in the trailers, he essentially has a walk-on. For all that the film is called Battleship, most of it (the parts that don't look like they're out-takes from a particularly insipid romantic comedy) are set on a destroyer.

If you look at that destroyer, you'll see that most of the time it's showing the ball-diamond-ball dayshapes, which mean "I am constrained in my ability to maneuver" (probably because they have a camera barge alongside). That mostly sums this thing up: Even the ships are unable to act.

BenPanced
05-20-2012, 11:21 PM
Syfy is currently showing American Warships: (http://www.syfy.com/movies/view/179) "Disguised aliens launch a global attack, and one military ship must save the world."

ON TV. NOT IN THEATERS. ACCEPT NO IMITATIONS.

fireluxlou
05-20-2012, 11:25 PM
Syfy is currently showing American Warships: (http://www.syfy.com/movies/view/179) "Disguised aliens launch a global attack, and one military ship must save the world."

ON TV. NOT IN THEATERS. ACCEPT NO IMITATIONS.

Lol well it's by The Asylum they always bring out mockbusters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Asylum).

BenPanced
05-21-2012, 12:25 AM
Figures. Sounds like one of theirs. :rolleyes:

Rhoda Nightingale
05-21-2012, 01:30 AM
lol--oh dear. Well I wasn't expecting much from this movie, but poor Kitsch. I sure hope Savages does better than John Carter and Battleship have so far, at least critique-wise, because dude. Duuuude. You are my favorite up-and-coming actor--be more awesome!

J.S.F.
05-21-2012, 02:59 AM
I think this movie done sunk his awesomeness, if it was ever there to begin with.:)

Rhoda Nightingale
05-21-2012, 03:12 AM
Oh, it's there. And I did love the John Carter movie, bad reviews/poor box office notwithstanding. But this one... *shakes head* Maybe I should hold off judgment until actually seeing it, but just this small amount of buzz so far makes me not at all hopeful.

James D. Macdonald
05-21-2012, 03:16 AM
Another review of this disaster movie: http://moviebob.blogspot.com/2012/05/escape-to-movies-battleship.html

(NOTE: That's disaster-of-a-movie, not a movie about a disaster. Tries for one, gets the other.)

J.S.F.
05-21-2012, 03:35 AM
Rhoda, honestly, save your money, rent a Disney DVD, take your children to the park and I PROMISE you it will be infinitely more rewarding than sitting through this gobbler. Plan 9 From Outer Space is an Oscar winner compared to this, except the special effects aren't as good.

And it had Bela Lugosi in it, even though he died during the making of that movie....

WildScribe
05-21-2012, 03:53 AM
I am a girl, but I like explosions. Loved Die Hard, for example, and went to see Avengers twice because it was so fun (and explodey!) but even the previews for Battleship just make me sort of wrinkle my nose. I leaned toward my husband and whispered "It looks like a Transformers movie... only worse!" and two seconds later it says "From the people who brought you Transformers!" Ah, got it.

I need at least a LITTLE plot with my explosions.

mario_c
05-21-2012, 03:59 AM
lol--oh dear. Well I wasn't expecting much from this movie, but poor Kitsch. I sure hope Savages does better than John Carter and Battleship have so far, at least critique-wise, because dude. Duuuude. You are my favorite up-and-coming actor--be more awesome!Saw the trailer for Savages, and I am excited about this one. If Oliver Stone can restrain his preachiness a little, this will rule.

That is all. Did not see Battleship. :D

Stacia Kane
05-21-2012, 04:07 AM
Loved Die Hard, for example.


Well, DIE HARD is one of the greatest films ever made.

Seriously.

dclary
05-21-2012, 07:01 AM
Well, DIE HARD is one of the greatest films ever made.

Seriously.

QFT.

dclary
05-21-2012, 07:05 AM
If you look at that destroyer, you'll see that most of the time it's showing the ball-diamond-ball dayshapes, which mean "I am constrained in my ability to maneuver" (probably because they have a camera barge alongside). That mostly sums this thing up: Even the ships are unable to act.

This is the most awesome obscure knowledgeable fact and analysis I have read in 2012.

WildScribe
05-21-2012, 07:12 AM
This is the most awesome obscure knowledgeable fact and analysis I have read in 2012.

QFT. I was also extremely impressed. :)

James D. Macdonald
05-21-2012, 07:21 AM
Well, DIE HARD is one of the greatest films ever made.

Seriously.


This is because Die Hard is:

1) A classic romantic comedy, and
2) A Christmas movie.

JimmyB27
05-21-2012, 02:52 PM
Basing it on a board game? Lord have mercy.
Have you seen the next big blockbuster (http://next%20big%20blockbuster)?

fireluxlou
05-21-2012, 03:00 PM
Well Clue the 1985 movie is based on a board game :D Cluedo.


Wadsworth: You *were* jealous that your husband was schtupping Yvette. That's why you killed him, too!
Mrs. White: Yes. Yes, I did it. I killed Yvette. I hated her, so much...
[stammers]
Mrs. White: it-it- the f - it -flam - flames. Flames, on the side of my face, breathing-breathl- heaving breaths. Heaving breaths... Heathing...

Manuel Royal
05-21-2012, 03:22 PM
If you find that you have to see this, I'd recommend taking along earplugs. The dialog is worse than anything you could imagine, so just imagining what they're saying would be an improvement.Now I'm hoping Rifftrax does a commentary for this movie.

K. Taylor
05-21-2012, 03:25 PM
Saw one critic say they liked it better than the last 2 Transformers movies, but that was about all he was able to say that was good.

Stacia Kane
05-21-2012, 03:31 PM
This is because Die Hard is:

1) A classic romantic comedy, and
2) A Christmas movie.


Sort of. :)

I rote a big long thing about this in an interview I did a year or two ago; here it is C&Pd. Why DIE HARD is one of the greatest movies ever made:

If you take out all of the fantastic action and excitement and the pitch-perfect performances and notes of levity balanced with moments of gravity, you have a completely tight story with tension increasing every minute. Nothing in DIE HARD is wasted, not a line, not a moment. John McClane is on a place; his seatmate tells him to take off his shoes and wiggle them around. He does, and ends up barefoot.

His wife is using her maiden name. It perfectly illustrates the tension in the marriage, and also gives her a chance to keep her "true identity" hidden.

When he arrives, Ellis, the annoying cokehead, gets all braggy about the watch Holly was given for her great work. She hadn't told John. Another great example of their alienation, but also, the watch is important in the final moments of the film's climax, when she's almost pulled out of the window because Hans grabs the watch. (It's almost symbolic; is she going to keep the watch--i.e. stay at her job, devote herself to her new, independent life without John, or lose the watch and become his wife again?)

See what I mean? NOTHING in that film is wasted. The limo driver gets his chance to foil the robbers. Al gets to shoot Alexander Gudinov (RIP). The dickhead reporter exposes Holly to Hans, and gets punched in return. Every moment in that film has a purpose. Everything is used.

Even the setting. Placing them all in a high-rise office building--better yet, the top few floors of a high-rise office building--gives them fewer places to hide, and forces them to stay in close proximity to each other. That proximity increases the tension, because we KNOW that at any moment John could be caught. Not to mention they're high up, completely cut off from the rest of the world; if they had access to lower floors they might well have tried to escape that way but of course there's no chance from where they are.

Even the fact that it's Christmas is used perfectly, from the party to Hans's "It's Christmas. It's the time of miracles," to the Ho-Ho-Ho tape John uses to stick the gun to his back. It could have been any ordinary party at the Nakatomi building, but it's not, and the fact that it's Christmas once again ups the tension. They're not just in danger, they're in danger on Christmas!

There's lots more examples, of course, but now I'm just sort of running on. The point is, if you sit down and analyze DIE HARD as a story and as a movie, you'll see that it's put together so perfectly. I can't think of another movie that's made the same way. And that's why I think it's one of the greatest movies ever made; not just because it's awesome and I love it, but because the story itself, the craft of that story, is something we all try to emulate.

James D. Macdonald
05-21-2012, 10:12 PM
Speaking of concretized metaphor (which we weren't but should have been) in Die Hard John McClane quite literally walks barefoot over broken glass for his wife.

On-topic: None of those good things (e.g. setting supporting theme) are present in Battleship.

Camilla Delvalle
05-22-2012, 01:07 AM
For all that the film is called Battleship, most of it (the parts that don't look like they're out-takes from a particularly insipid romantic comedy) are set on a destroyer.
It's not even a battleship? That's really lame. And false advertising.

Toothpaste
05-22-2012, 01:16 AM
Question: do they ever at any point say "You sunk my battleship"??? And if so, in what context? I've been dying to know the answer to this question since I learned they were making this movie. But see, I really don't want to actually SEE the movie.

Rhoda Nightingale
05-22-2012, 02:50 AM
^Okay, I hadn't even thought about that, but now I need to know too.

Also--Cleolinda weighs in. (http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/1023299.html)

@cleolinda: This was long after Taylor Kitsch got tasered for falling through a 7-11 ceiling and stealing a chicken burrito. FOR LOVE.

@cleolinda: And his brother Vampire Eric is VERY DISAPPOINTED IN HIM

James D. Macdonald
05-22-2012, 03:50 AM
Question: do they ever at any point say "You sunk my battleship"??? And if so, in what context?


No, no one uses that line.

Also, they have Missouri turning on springs (which is what it's called when you drop an anchor in order to assist your turn), probably because they saw it in Pirates of the Caribbean and thought it looked So Cool. While that is a useful maneuver with sail-powered wooden ships in certain very specific situations (e.g. Nelson in the Battle of the Nile), Missouri is so darned maneuverable that this is completely unneeded in the tactical situation as seen in the film.

Missouri can turn very sharply indeed by twisting ship (e.g. ahead full on the starboard screws, back full on the port screws to twist to port). And even with that, there's No Flaming Need to aim the guns by aiming the whole ship. That's the entire point of putting guns in steam-powered rotating turrets. You can spin those things around a whole lot faster than you can turn the ship. This has been the case since ... oh, let me see ... USS Monitor in 1862.

I wanted to slap every one of those "naval officers" until he settled down and learned his [bleep]ing job. What a bunch of incompetent washouts.

Duncan J Macdonald
05-22-2012, 07:02 AM
Also, they have Missouri turning on springs (which is what it's called when you drop an anchor in order to assist your turn), probably because they saw it in Pirates of the Caribbean and thought it looked So Cool. While that is a useful maneuver with sail-powered wooden ships in certain very specific situations (e.g. Nelson in the Battle of the Nile), Missouri is so darned maneuverable that this is completely unneeded in the tactical situation as seen in the film.

Just out of curiosity, what was the approximate depth of water when they dropped anchor, and what was their speed over ground?

James D. Macdonald
05-22-2012, 09:00 AM
They were close inshore Hawaii, somewhere just outside of Pearl. (although an awful lot of chain ran out). They didn't have their CGI anchor chain painted correctly so I can't tell you the number of shots. They were doing All Ahead Full.

fireluxlou
05-22-2012, 11:46 AM
No one uses the line specifically but there was reference to it

'No, we ain't sinking this battleship'

http://www.mcclinks.com/peter-berg-explains-the-reference-to-battleships-famous-line-2/

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1685272/battleship-mystery-peter-berg.jhtml

Toothpaste
05-22-2012, 06:09 PM
Well that disappoints me. Anyone making a board game into a very silly movie needs to appreciate the absurdity. To me it is quite telling that they didn't include that line, like they might be taking themselves a wee bit too seriously.

retromovie
05-22-2012, 06:35 PM
So guys, let's figure out the next SF hit. We'll get a tough woman like in Alien, set it on water like The Abyss, have alien ships attacking earth like in Independence Day, and have the aliens vulnerable to something wholesome like light, like the water in Signs. What could go wrong?

Cyia
05-22-2012, 07:02 PM
Well that disappoints me. Anyone making a board game into a very silly movie needs to appreciate the absurdity. To me it is quite telling that they didn't include that line, like they might be taking themselves a wee bit too seriously.


Exactly. I would have assumed the line would come in early, like after a first strike. Some angry admiral on the phone or in a meeting with people who just don't "get it", snarls "They sank my battleship!" about a crew lost at sea.

Duncan J Macdonald
05-22-2012, 09:13 PM
They were close inshore Hawaii, somewhere just outside of Pearl. (although an awful lot of chain ran out). They didn't have their CGI anchor chain painted correctly so I can't tell you the number of shots. They were doing All Ahead Full.

Ah. I'm sure it looked neat on-screen. However, an awful lot of chain is right. The Hawai'ian Islands are all volcanic, and the bottom drops off swiftly. At just 4,000 yards (2 nautical miles for the uninitiated) you'll find the 200 fathom curve (1200 feet).

According to the USS New Jersey (http://www.ussnewjersey.com/hist_sts.htm)statistics site:
Each anchor is the stockless bower type weighing 30,000 pounds; each chain is 12 shots, or 1,080 feet long, including the outboard swivel shot. Each link weighs 110 pounds.

Here's a zoomable chart of the Approaches to Pearl Harbor (http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/19369.shtml) Please note that the soundings are in fathoms, and that there are only four anchorages listed, all on or near the 10 fathom curve. If you play around, you'll find that the 50 fathom curve is only 500 yards from shoal water, and it gets deeper fast.

If you get out to Papa Hotel (the point where you need to come to 333 degrees true to line up with the channel entrance, and the point seaward of which all non-harbor traffic needs to stay) you are at the 200 fathom curve.

From the stats listed above, the Missouri (an Iowa class battleship, like the New Jersey) only has 1,080 feet of chain (not all of which is usable -- the bitter end of the chain is secured to the inner bulkhead of the chain locker).

As a rule of thumb, you want to run out three times as much chain as there is depth of water. Rounding down, from 1,080 feet, you don't want to anchor in more than 300 feet of water (50 fathoms).

If they were past the 100 fathom curve, the weight of the anchor plus the weight of the chain is gonna keep that anchor chain running. You might have enough time to clear the fo'c'sle when the yellow starts coming out. If the chain is red, it's too late.

I hope thay had lots of CGI showing the destruction of the anchor windlass and the chain pipe, the decking, the hawsepipe, and the bitter end of the chain snapping over the side taking big chunks of the bow with it. (And that's at a stand-still -- if they're making Ahead Full, she's doing 28 knots or so. 80,000 tons of ship has just a little bit of inertia...)

Shadow_Ferret
05-22-2012, 09:31 PM
Is "Battleship" based on the board game? Other than discussions here I haven't read anything about it and I haven't even seen any trailers for it in TV.
Syfy is currently showing American Warships: (http://www.syfy.com/movies/view/179) "Disguised aliens launch a global attack, and one military ship must save the world."

ON TV. NOT IN THEATERS. ACCEPT NO IMITATIONS.

I watched that on your recommendation. I actually enjoyed it, but then, as an ex-Navy man I'm a sucker for anything that uses real footage of an Iowa-class battleship. :)

Toothpaste
05-22-2012, 10:12 PM
Yup, based on the boardgame.

Shadow_Ferret
05-22-2012, 11:33 PM
Yup, based on the boardgame.

You're just teasing, right? How could they? There's no story or plot with a board game, just a stated goal. What next? "Football" based on the old vibrating table top game! The characters wander aimlessly about the screen just like in the game!

fireluxlou
05-22-2012, 11:38 PM
You're just teasing, right? How could they? There's no story or plot with a board game, just a stated goal. What next? "Football" based on the old vibrating table top game! The characters wander aimlessly about the screen just like in the game!

Well there have been a few films based on board games before. Like Clue (1985)

Shadow_Ferret
05-22-2012, 11:44 PM
Well there have been a few films based on board games before. Like Clue (1985)

Yes, but Clue is a standard mystery. There might not be a story, but there are characters, lots of rooms with hidden passageways and such.

They could probably make movies from Monopoly, Life or the more complex board games.

But battleship? That just seems silly.

Jcomp
05-23-2012, 12:35 AM
Yes, but Clue is a standard mystery. There might not be a story, but there are characters, lots of rooms with hidden passageways and such.

They could probably make movies from Monopoly, Life or the more complex board games.

But battleship? That just seems silly.

It's about as silly as it seems. It's basically "Battleship in Name Only." It could very easily have been called something else entirely with zero substantial changes.

Cyia
05-23-2012, 02:29 AM
It would have been a much more interesting, and fitting, premise if they'd kept the game tie-in and made the movie a sort of War Games situation with a pair of kids thinking they're playing a RPG and actually directing two nations' ships into a near war.

Manuel Royal
05-23-2012, 02:43 AM
You're just teasing, right? How could they? There's no story or plot with a board game, just a stated goal. What next? "Football" based on the old vibrating table top game! The characters wander aimlessly about the screen just like in the game!Well, Universal has a contract to produce several more movies based on Hasbro board games. In the planning stages are at least two:

Candyland, possibly with Adam Sandler. (At this point Sandler's got nowhere to go but up.)

Monopoly, possibly directed by Ridley Scott. I'm not making that up.

I've got my fingers crossed for Hungry Hungry Hippo, a hard-R horror movie directed by John Carpenter.

James D. Macdonald
05-23-2012, 04:50 AM
Here's a way that they could have turned the Hasbro game into a credible Big Budget Blockbuster Movie (http://www.minionsatwork.com/2012/05/minions-321-were-sunk.html) without perpetrating anything as bad as the actual current offering.

Mustafa
05-23-2012, 05:14 AM
I saw it, and actually liked it quite a bit. I also liked Transformers.

James D. Macdonald
05-23-2012, 09:14 AM
Minesweeper: The Movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHY8NKj3RKs&list=FLBx_F0OWuxSXpdt22htlyJA&index=215&feature=plpp_video)

J.S.F.
05-23-2012, 09:44 AM
Minesweeper: I dig that.....

Sorry, I'm really bored and it was the only thing I could think of.

:D

Once!
05-23-2012, 10:33 AM
The first Transformers was fun. The second was a chore. I fell asleep in the third.

defcon6000
05-23-2012, 01:26 PM
It would have been a much more interesting, and fitting, premise if they'd kept the game tie-in and made the movie a sort of War Games situation with a pair of kids thinking they're playing a RPG and actually directing two nations' ships into a near war.
Isn't that the premise of Ender's Game?

JimmyB27
05-23-2012, 02:01 PM
Isn't that the premise of Ender's Game?
SPOILER ALERT!!

Cyia
05-23-2012, 03:50 PM
Isn't that the premise of Ender's Game?


I wouldn't know.

Manuel Royal
05-23-2012, 06:43 PM
Sort of. :)

I rote a big long thing about this in an interview I did a year or two ago; here it is C&Pd. Why DIE HARD is one of the greatest movies ever made:Excellent job, Stacia. A precise, insightful little essay that doesn't analyze the movie to death and kill the fun.

Die Hard has been imitated so many times, and they almost never get it right. Doesn't matter how big the action is, if we don't have a character we connect with. The first quarter hour very efficiently introduces us to John McClane, makes him both flawed and sympathetic, and hooks us in emotionally.

One of the things I love about that movie is that John McClane doesn't want to be heroic; the first thing he does is try to call for help. But he's forced to be heroic by circumstances, and it's just a huge pain in the ass.

This is more fun than talking about Battleship.

Teinz
05-23-2012, 07:00 PM
Liked the effects of the movie, the scale of it.

Storywise it wasn't pretty...

Mustafa
05-23-2012, 07:28 PM
I wouldn't know.

You haven't read Ender's Game? You should. It's incredible.

Stiger05
05-23-2012, 07:53 PM
Well, Universal has a contract to produce several more movies based on Hasbro board games. In the planning stages are at least two:

Candyland, possibly with Adam Sandler. (At this point Sandler's got nowhere to go but up.)

Monopoly, possibly directed by Ridley Scott. I'm not making that up.

I've got my fingers crossed for Hungry Hungry Hippo, a hard-R horror movie directed by John Carpenter.

Of all of them, I might actually go see that!

I heard they were making a Monopoly movie and thought it was the dumbest idea ever (until I heard of Battleship at least). Let's make a move of a really long board game that no one really likes to play and never finishes but everyone owns. Of course, from the premise I read, they might as well call it a documentary on Donald Trump and be done with it.

Cyia
05-23-2012, 08:16 PM
You haven't read Ender's Game? You should. It's incredible.


I've never read anything of Card's.

Mustafa
05-23-2012, 08:49 PM
I've never read anything of Card's.

I've read a couple, but Ender's Game is the best. It's in the same genre as you write (according to your sig), so you might like it. I read it recently and consider it one of the best books I've read in a long time. Anyway, just a recommendation :).

Manuel Royal
05-23-2012, 10:46 PM
I've never read anything of Card's.
I just don't care for his writing. But, that novel's got a big fan base, so maybe you'll like it.

thebloodfiend
05-24-2012, 01:39 AM
Ender's Game is alright. It was amazing when I read it in fourth grade. Tried to re-read last year. Couldn't. Ender's Shadow is much better. Card is pretty hit and miss, though. Can't say I'd rec' him due to his politics, but I do kind of like his Women of Genesis stuff. I can't stand the rest of the Ender Game/Shadow stuff, though.

Anyway, is this worse than Battle LA? Because that was a pretty bad movie. I couldn't get past the halfway mark on that. And I fell asleep on Transformers. Megan Fox was hot, but not even her face could've saved my attention span.

fireluxlou
05-24-2012, 01:46 AM
Don't really care for Orson Scott Card either. Mainly because his nasty views put me off ever reading his books.

jjdebenedictis
05-24-2012, 09:14 AM
Don't really care for Orson Scott Card either. Mainly because his nasty views put me off ever reading his books.This is what libraries and second-hand book stores are for, my friends. You do not need to support him with your dollars to enjoy his books.

I thought Ender's Game was okay and The Crystal City was amazing. I agree that Card is hit and miss, but when he's good, he's very good.

bettielee
05-24-2012, 09:22 AM
Syfy is currently showing American Warships: (http://www.syfy.com/movies/view/179) "Disguised aliens launch a global attack, and one military ship must save the world."

ON TV. NOT IN THEATERS. ACCEPT NO IMITATIONS.

why why do this they do this??


Well Clue the 1985 movie is based on a board game :D Cluedo.

Clue was teh awesome. :)

Oh, and haven't seen the movie... it looks kinda dumb.

I did see John Carter in 3d though, and I don't get the hate. I admit, the leads had no chemistry and I was disappointed in Lynn Collins and how amazingly boring she was, but I enjoyed the 4 armed people and the beautiful flying machines.

thekingsguard
05-24-2012, 08:42 PM
Gotta agree that Die Hard is an underrated classic... but why all the hate on Orson Scott Card? What views does he have that are deal breakers?

Mustafa
05-24-2012, 08:51 PM
Gotta agree that Die Hard is an underrated classic... but why all the hate on Orson Scott Card? What views does he have that are deal breakers?

I was going to ask the same thing. I don't usually look into the views of the authors I read. That would take a lot of time. I'm not a fan of Mel Gibson as a person, but I do like a lot of his movies.

Toothpaste
05-24-2012, 09:49 PM
Gotta agree that Die Hard is an underrated classic... but why all the hate on Orson Scott Card? What views does he have that are deal breakers?

He's a homophobic bigot and actively spreads his hatred by writing articles on the subject.

thekingsguard
05-25-2012, 12:17 AM
He's a homophobic bigot and actively spreads his hatred by writing articles on the subject.

Were these staements made in regards to his LDS faith, or in regards to not liking LGBT people?

Stiger05
05-25-2012, 01:40 AM
He's a homophobic bigot and actively spreads his hatred by writing articles on the subject.


This is why I ignore people's politics. There are excellent writers and musicians and actors who I don't agree with politically, but still enjoy their books, or music, or movies as long as I stay blissfully ignorant of their private lives. Finding out their views on issues ruins their art.

I can't listen to John Mayer anymore without thinking of his rants from a couple years ago, and I refuse to watch a new Tom Cruise movie because of his special brand of crazy, for example. So, for the last few years, I've just ignored everything else. I don't want to know. I just want to read.

People may denounce this choice and yell at me for still supporting people I might not agree with, but to all of those dissenters I say: do you know the political views of each and every author you read or purchase books from? If not, then you don't really have room to talk, respectfully speaking of course. If so, then that's your decision not to read those works, and kudos to you for the research.

Toothpaste
05-25-2012, 03:29 AM
Were these staements made in regards to his LDS faith, or in regards to not liking LGBT people?

Does it make a difference? It seems to me a heck of a lot of homophobia has its roots in religion "Being gay is a sin..." etc etc. Does it make bigotry more palatable if it is based in religion?

As it stands the answer seems to be both. You can find articles where he discusses homosexuality and how it should be handled within the LDS church, and comments he has just made in general about the unnaturalness of homosexuality.

PeterHill
05-25-2012, 12:09 PM
It was an alright film I guess, won't be buying it on DVD.

fireluxlou
05-25-2012, 01:41 PM
Were these staements made in regards to his LDS faith, or in regards to not liking LGBT people?

Well he has openly expressed that homosexuals are akin to paedophiles for one.

From his wiki page:


Card has publicly declared his disapproval of homosexuality and of marriage rights for gay men and women. In 1990, Card called for laws that ban homosexual behavior to "remain on the books... to be used when necessary to send a clear message that those who flagrantly violate society's regulation of sexual behavior cannot be permitted to remain as acceptable, equal citizens within that society", although he no longer advocates this, and argues that the 1990 stance must be seen in the context of the times (such laws were still deemed constitutional at the time) and the conservative Mormon audience to whom his essay was addressed.[28] In 2009, Card became a member of the board of directors of the National Organization for Marriage, a group that seeks to prevent the legalization of same-sex marriage.[29]

Card has voiced his opinion that paraphilia and homosexuality are sometimes linked. In a 2004 essay entitled "Homosexual 'Marriage' and Civilization", Card wrote:


The dark secret of homosexual society -- the one that dares not speak its name -- is how many homosexuals first entered into that world through a disturbing seduction or rape or molestation or abuse, and how many of them yearn to get out of the homosexual community and live normally.[30]

Additionally, in Card's novella Hamlet's Father, which re-imagines the backstory of Shakespeare's play Hamlet, some claim that Card depicts the main character's problems as being the result of his father's activities as a gay pedophile. The novella prompted public outcry and its publishers were inundated with complaints.[13] The trade journal Publisher's Weekly criticized Card's "flimsy novella" and stated that the main purpose of it was to attempt to link homosexuality to pedophilia.[31] Orson Scott Card has responded to the claims that Hamlet's Father links homosexuality with pedophilia, Card wrote:


...[T]here is no link whatsoever between homosexuality and pedophilia in this book. Hamlet's father, in the book, is a pedophile, period. I don't show him being even slightly attracted to adults of either sex. It is the reviewer, not me, who has asserted this link, which I would not and did not make.[32]

And:



"Same-sex attraction is not a strait jacket; people's desires change over time; gay people still have choices; a reproductive dysfunction like same-sex attraction is not a death sentence for your DNA or for your desire to have a family in which children grow up with male and female parents to model appropriate gender roles."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/04/orson-scott-card-gay-marriage-amendment-one_n_1478936.html

For me though it's simple. I won't support or read works of those - who I know - that hate people like me. Life's too short for time wasted on people who express such sentiment.

Mustafa
05-25-2012, 04:36 PM
This is why I ignore people's politics. There are excellent writers and musicians and actors who I don't agree with politically, but still enjoy their books, or music, or movies as long as I stay blissfully ignorant of their private lives. Finding out their views on issues ruins their art.

I can't listen to John Mayer anymore without thinking of his rants from a couple years ago, and I refuse to watch a new Tom Cruise movie because of his special brand of crazy, for example. So, for the last few years, I've just ignored everything else. I don't want to know. I just want to read.

People may denounce this choice and yell at me for still supporting people I might not agree with, but to all of those dissenters I say: do you know the political views of each and every author you read or purchase books from? If not, then you don't really have room to talk, respectfully speaking of course. If so, then that's your decision not to read those works, and kudos to you for the research.

This.

Toothpaste
05-25-2012, 06:16 PM
I actually agree that it's tough to start judging the art by the person. Especially as we don't know what everyone really believes and thinks, and just because Mel, let's say, shares his insanity with the world, doesn't mean others aren't equally mad, just they keep it under wraps. How can we make a judgment that we absolutely won't support this artist, when possibly another artist we love secretly has the exact same proclivities?

That being said.

I never was that interested in reading Card, even before I found out about his bigotry. The only reason I might read him is because he's a big name and I feel one ought to read what's popular. Knowing what I know about his bigotry, however, has basically meant that since I never really needed to read his stuff in the first place, I'm definitely not going to now. If, however, I really was interested in his work, I'd probably still give it a go, despite him being totally reprehensible to me.