Who are we? Where are we going? Why are we not published?

Another perspective

I admit that Mr. Walsh's book is a little rant-prone. That's one of the things I enjoyed about it.

This is definitely not a typical follow-your-bliss-and-the-money-will-come inspirational writing book. It is the viewpoint of an overworked editor who has been bombarded with too much tripe. But its great strength is that it is honest--and I happen to believe that getting inside the snowblind, jaded head of an editor is a useful exercise.

The book is unkind and even deliberately discouraging. Yet I found it to be valuable, and to provide a perspective no other book out there provides. For that reason, I suspect it may become something of a classic.

On the other hand, I can easily understand how another reader might find it extremely annoying: this one is definitely not for everyone.

You know, I saw that in Barnes and Noble just this morning. I skimmed over it on my way to the coffee bar, and came to the conclusion that while he may have some good ideas, most of them wouldn't be useful to me personally. I didn't think this book would tell me anything I didn't already know.

Glad I passed on it.

This book was recommended to me by one of MacAdam/Cage's authors & I thought it was funny & engaging [but I'm a sarcastic b!tch in general ], & it made me think about a couple of things in a new way. Walsh gave Craig Clevenger a break so he's in my Pantheon Of Editors. It's just too bad he's not working as one anymore -- he could've "discovered" another great writer or two, maybe even one of us? *shrug*

Just my $0.02.

Happy New Year everyone!

It's a book guaranteed to make almost any unpublished writer angry, but it's also a book that tells the truth on almost every page.


Actually, after seeing so much crap, anything even remotely good shines like a diamond. It shines so brightly that the temptation to buy mediocre fiction is almost overwhelming.

The simple truth is that almost everything an agent or editor sees is crap. Pure, unadulterated, unholy crap. There are far, far too many wannabe writers who think writing is easy, who honestly beleive they don't have to know grammar (I can always hire it done! Yeah, right. If you believe this, you are an idiot.), who think syntax is a surcharge on whiskey, or who simply don't read enough. There are far too many wannbe writer who think you can learn to write by watching TV, or by reading only a few novels in your own genre.

There are far too many wannabe writers who don't even know what a story is, let alone how to tell one well, and far, far too many wannabe writers who put characters on the page that would give cardboard a bad name.

Publishers do not have black hearts. They love writers. At least they love writers who take writing seriously, who don't submit more crap just like all the other crap that makes their lives miserable day in and day out. They love writers who understand that you DO have to know grammar and syntax and punctuation, that you do have to read often and widely, that you do have to understand good writing is not subjective, and who know and understand just what it is that publishers, and the reading public, are really looking for.

There is no reason to love, or like, or even tolerate, writers who do not know and do these things.

As for reading your work aloud, in a very real sense, he's absolutely right. Reading your work aloud is a very good way of catching typos and the like, but it's also the worst possible way of judging quality. When you read work aloud, you can make it sound any way you want it to sound.

Writing is going to be read silently by the great majority of reader, so no voice inflection, no voice emotion, only the silent word on the silent page. You work must stand this test. A good reader can make a phone book sound interesting when he reads it aloud. When a writer reads his own manuscript aloud, he reads it the way he thinks it should sound, which is often not at all the way it's going to sound to the average reader.

Reading your work aloud? To catch typos, sure, go ahead. To judge quality? No, do not read your work aloud to judge quality. It doesn't work, and can fool you into thinking something you've written is a lot better than it really is.

Anyone who can be discouraged from writing probably should be. Better than 90% who try writing simply do not have the talent or the skill. Period. Most of the rest lack the determination, or fall into that category where they believe such things as grammar and punctuation and syntax are not things they have to know inside out.

Writing well is always difficult. Telling a good story is even harder. Making characters come alive on the page is darned near impossible. Having a dream does not mean having the talent to make that dream come true. That's just how it is. Too many writers sound exactly like those horrible first round contestants on American Idol, but they can't hear their own voices.

The smartest thing a new writer can do is probably to read Pat Walsh's book two or three times. It tells the truth, and the truth is not that publishers have black hearts. The truth is that most people can't write. The bigger truth, on touched on early and often in this book, is that very often it's the writer's own fault that he can't write because he doesn't take such things as grammar, etc., seriously. He finds excuses for not reading enough, for not writing enough, for this, for that, and for the other.

Pat Walsh knows what he's talking about, an dthis is actually a very encouraging book. But it's also a brutally honest book, and honesty is something new writers simply do not get enough of. Everyone tries to be polite, to sof soap, to enocourage, even when there's nothing to encourage. Reading this book line by line about three times in a row, and believing every word of it, is the smartest thing any new writer could possibly do.

Jamesaritchie said:

syntax is a surcharge on whiskey

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This made my whole day! I have to find somewhere to use this.

I haven't read the book, so I can't comment on it. But the two completely polar views of it expressed here will definitely make me pick it up -- even if only at the library. It should be interesting...

Hmmmmm . . . after I bought the book, I plowed through it in one sitting & immediately went back to read every section that surprised me over again -- maybe there's hope for me yet!

James -- I love your "syntax = surcharge" bit too!

It sounds like Pat didn't do such a good job of getting his ideas across to folks who don't already grok him.

It sounds like the book makes sense to James because he's already gotten what what there is to get out of it -- he's done a good job of translating it for us.

I think I'll skip Pat's book and wait till James's comes out.

paprikapink -- While I'd be glad to read James' book too, I thought I should tell you that I didn't know Walsh was the one who gave Clevenger a break until I read the book that started this thread. Granted, the reason I checked out MacAdam/Cage in the first place was because they published Clevenger, but I didn't know who Walsh was before I read his book. I have, and will, recommend it to anyone who seriously wants to get a novel published. I guess his style of humor isn't for everyone!

And that's the cold, hard truth... most people can't write. People who think they can, can't. And when people who can write tell others that they can't (no matter how politely) those who think they can but can't get all snippy. Not pointing to anyone who has replied to this thread, just making a sweeping generalization about the populace overall.

Someone finally had the balls to write it down? I gotta see this book

There are different methods of delivering the truth. It sounds like this guy does it in a rather rough way. Some relish that authentic tone. And others don't. I don't really need someone shouting "You stink!" in my face to know that I stink.

I have to say I disagree about reading your work aloud. I find it's a good way to pick up bad sentence structure and phrasing. Yes a good reader can make anything sound good; but - if you ever have to edit or produce audiobooks you'll see this for yourself - they sometimes have to work really hard at it.

I really benefitted from having my family do a "staged reading" (in the living room) of one of my screenplays. I got to hear where the plot dragged and which lines sounded unnatural (maybe all the better because they're not professional actors who could compensate).

I haven't read this book, so my comments aren't aimed at it. But the problem with books like that in general is that the target audience won't match the actual audience. That is, this sounds like it's directed at the putz writers-- the ones who believe grammar doesn't matter, pay no attention to proper protocol, send in first drafts, etc. However, those people don't read books about how to improve one's writing. They think they know it all already. Maybe, maybe, they'll drop in at a forum like this and ask a couple of questions (it's free and easy), but it'll usually be questions like, "Which agents represent mysteries?" or "How much money do first-time novelists usually make?"-- not "How do I create more compelling character arcs?" or "Is this chapter lead grabbing enough?"

So you end up with the writers who actually do care enough to learn, who take their writing seriously, reading books like that-- and feeling totally patronized.

Well, I went out and bought it yesterday, just to see what it had to say. I have to agree with James. It's cold, brutal -- and completely honest. I've only read about the first 100 pages, but the advice in there is all very realistic about the publishing industry as a whole. But it doesn't allow for excuses. I can see Uncle Jim having written this book. It sounds pretty much like everything on his thread. "Butt in Chair. Write the book. Don't TALK about writing it." "If you've already thought about the perfect cover, and the actor to read it as an audio version, and the character to play the lead in the movie, you're NOT writing it -- and probably never will."

Harsh, but true. I'd recommend the book to anyone who's considering publishing, but Jenna's right. Those who need it would never pick it up, and those who would pick it up would already agree. It's a "preaching to the choir" sort of book. But I'll definitely finish it, because I just might learn something. And then I'll pass it along to another member of the choir.

My question is -- who is the target audience? Would wannabe writers care about the "cold, harsh, take-no-prisoner reality of publishing"? Would published authors think, "This is preaching to the choir"?

JennaGlatzer said:

That is, this sounds like it's directed at the putz writers-- the ones who believe grammar doesn't matter, pay no attention to proper protocol, send in first drafts, etc. However, those people don't read books about how to improve one's writing...So you end up with the writers who actually do care enough to learn, who take their writing seriously, reading books like that-- and feeling totally patronized.

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So is there a way to tell what kind of writer you are without spending the money on this book, and deciding whether or not you've wasted your time and money?

Well, I finished the whole book, and highly recommend it to anyone with a thick skin who wants to know what REALLY happens in the publishing world. But check your ego at the door, because it will get bruised very quickly.

Celia Cyanide said:

So is there a way to tell what kind of writer you are without spending the money on this book, and deciding whether or not you've wasted your time and money?

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Well, here are the "14 Reasons That You Just Might" from the back of the book. If you think you have ALL 14, then you're probably part of the choir.

PART NINE: The Good News

1. You Wrote a Good Book
2. You Are Honest With Yourself
3. You Do Your Homework
4. You Make Yourself Stand Out
5. You Have High Hopes... and Reasonable Expectations
6. You Have a Healthy Perspective
7. You Take Advantage of Time
8. You Learn from Rejection
9. You Are Flexible
10. You Take Calculated Risks
11. You Take Yourself Seriously
12. You Make Your Own Luck
13. You Have Fun

I'd say that probably 50% of the writers I meet are missing some combination of #2, #5, #6, #8, and #9. Without them, the road will be more difficult, and a writer might learn a great deal from the book.

JMHO! But I will be recommending this book to a number of people.

As an aside, I also just finished Jenna's new book "The Street Smart Writer." Buy it! Read it! Use it to beat off the sharks in the world! It's the entire wisdom of this forum condensed into a bound, useable format! Yay! TERRIFIC BOOK, JENNA!

I'm reading this book right now, after seeing this thread, and I think it is hilarious. I found the tone to be tongue-in-cheek rather than patronizing. His sense of humor is self-deprecating enough to mitigate the otherwise harsh message. I get the feeling as I'm reading, as he states this often, that these are things he would never say to someone's face. I have not published a book and I feel like I'm learning a lot. This is much better than all of the cheerleader "Anyone Can Become an Author" that I've read.

Book

I do think the trouble with such books is that those who need it most probably won't read it, or will read it and disagree with everything in it. In all honesty, I'm not sure anything can help the bottom 50% of writers who land in slush piles.

But I think, maybe, it will be of great help to a certain percentage of writers. There are those who do take writing seriously, who understand the need to master grammar, punctuation, etc. There are those who write hard, work hard, and who do understand the reason they aren't getting published is because they are doing something wrong, but just don't know what.

And there are many writers who may have been published in some small way, such as a short story in a small magazine, and who sometimes recieve positive feedback from editors, but who just can't get over the hump. It may be such writers will read this book, take it seriously, and improve enough to get where they want to go.

I also think there's something for well-published writers in this book. Reminders, if nothing else. Reminders that it pays to take chances, pays to separate yourself from teh crowd, and reminders that even those of us who have had novels published can't slack off or we'll find ourselves in the midlist cuts and on the remainder tables.

It is a brutally honest book, and it will anger many new writers, but it's also a truthful book, and one I thought was funny, rather than patronizing.

Celia Cyanide said:

So is there a way to tell what kind of writer you are without spending the money on this book, and deciding whether or not you've wasted your time and money?

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The writer's best friend is the library. If they don't have it, they can get it. But I don't think reading this book is a waste of time for any serious writer.

Inspired said:

There are different methods of delivering the truth. It sounds like this guy does it in a rather rough way. Some relish that authentic tone. And others don't. I don't really need someone shouting "You stink!" in my face to know that I stink.

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Sometimes there is no nice way to put something. If you want to be a writer, you need a thick skin. Pat Walsh isn't mean, he's just truthful, and the truth is always better told straight out.

I think that if you can really tell you stink without having someone tell you, you probably wouldn't stink.

Jamesaritchie said:

Anyone who can be discouraged from writing probably should be. Better than 90% who try writing simply do not have the talent or the skill. Period. Most of the rest lack the determination, or fall into that category where they believe such things as grammar and punctuation and syntax are not things they have to know inside out.

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This is probably the truest thing I've read anywhere. It's the reason I no longer participate in critique groups.

After everyone wrote so many positive things about this book, I had to check it out, despite my earlier reservations. I picked up a copy at Barnes and Noble yesterday.

I am up to reason #6, and I am SO glad I dropped the $14 for it! This is absolutely hilarious! It's funny, in a snarky way that I adore, and it actually is useful.

Late to the party, as usual...

Just wanted to add my $0.02 -- I had never heard of this book until this thread, which inspired me to pick it up from the library. Funny, yes, but wherever it hits close to home, it's gonna hurt. I can't claim to have come away unscathed myself, but it's a great eye-opener.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention!