I think it's time to throw in the towel

Undercover · May 8, 2012

I wrote 5 novels to date. My first two were published by a super small publisher which barely gave me money for, so I searched for an agent for the third. I got one and that didn't work out. Wrote the fourth during the time I was with my first agent and since she didn't want that one and was no longer interested in pitching the other one, we split. Found another agent for the fourth one and wrote my fifth while we waited on submissions, but my second agent gave me some issues, so I parted ways with her too.

So now I am stuck with three unpublished novels and trying to get another agent for at least one. I've been pitching number 4 and 5 and have gotten some requests on 4 from the query, but it seems when they read it, it's a bust since I got a rejection on one of the partials already. Number 5 isn't getting any bites whatsoever.

I'm beaten down by this whole publishing process. I don't want to submit to smaller independent publishers in fear of having the same problem with my first two. And I have no idea what I am going to do if I don't connect on another agent. And I am not writing anymore either. I don't want to, have no urge at all. I just don't know what else to do anymore...I think it's time to give up.

mccardey · May 8, 2012

KRHolbrook · May 8, 2012

Nah, I wouldn't give up. Tons of people get rejections and have a hard time publishing, but you have to keep going at it. Eventually you'll find an agent / publishing company who will love your novels.

mccardey · May 8, 2012

KRHolbrook said:
Nah, I wouldn't give up. Tons of people get rejections and have a hard time publishing, but you have to keep going at it. Eventually you'll find an agent / publishing company who will love your novels.

Yes this. It's a really, really hard thing to do - but if you're a writer you're going to write anyway. That's the awful thing...

But you don't have to make a decision Right Now. Just chill for while. Recover.

Drachen Jager · May 8, 2012

I hear ya. I feel ready to throw in the towel some days, or weeks... like this one.

It seems like agents are blasting through submissions and queries as they try to catch up right now. One agent I had a full with sent at LEAST a dozen rejections (and by mathematical projection, probably more like 60) last Saturday. At that rate I find it laughable that she could have properly weighted most of them before giving us the boot. She probably never made it past page 1 in most cases, just looking for an excuse for a quick 'no'.

I had an agent for this work, but it's not really her genre, so she sent it to the four editors she knows who were looking for it (over my objections that it needed another round of edits first). When three passed and one passed with compliments and two pages of notes (and a hint that she might look again if the MS were seriously revised) she waited for me to do a massive edit, then dumped me without even reading the edit.

Everyone who has read the update agrees it's a huge improvement over the old one, but the agents I've sent it to don't seem to care. It got more interest last year than this one.

Anyhow, it looks dead on the agent front (still some subs out, but I don't really hold much hope any more), so I'm looking at subbing to the few decent publishers that will accept subs (more than four that I can sub to on my own have higher profiles than the four she sent it to!). If I get a publisher that way I think I'm just going to turn anti-agent. Why should I pay someone 15% for an additional layer of hassle.

Undercover · May 8, 2012

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

Yeah, DJ, that actually doesn't sound like a bad idea, the "anti-agent" thing. I've had two and both couldn't do it. The first one only sent it to like 7 publishers and just dumped me. The second sent it to 6 and was already looking for smaller publishers that I could have sent it to myself. I was like WTF? It only goes one round and that's it? Come on.

And I know what you mean about the agents giving us the boot. There's one in particular, that's a new agent on the Bewares that seemed to reject loads in the past few days with no hesitation.

I just hate it when there seems to be so much interest in my one novel on the query, but when they read it, wham! They spit it back out. And a lot of these are partials. And you know what? That second agent I had never even helped me edit it. She was just shady to begin with, that's why I dropped her. Who knows if she even sent it out to publishers. I'm really beginning to wonder about some of these agents.

Hope things get better, DJ. Let me know how things are going.

Mclesh · May 8, 2012

Undercover, since falling down the rabbit hole of querying, revising, resubmitting -- the whole process of getting my work published -- I've questioned my sanity more than once. This is a crazy-making world. I came very close to getting representation with a couple of agents (one of which I went through one year and four extensive sets of revisions with).

I've signed with an epublisher for three of my books. I figure they'll be out in the world and not stuck on my hard drive. And I'm happy to not be going through the querying process or the wait on submissions to publishers.

It sounds like your writing is good. Don't give up. Maybe take a break and consider your alternatives.

Oh, I just received a request in my inbox a few minutes ago on a query I sent 7 months ago. (Lol.)

Al Stevens · May 8, 2012

Undercover, sounds like classic burn-out. Give it some time.

RobJ · May 8, 2012

Drachen Jager said:
At that rate I find it laughable that she could have properly weighted most of them before giving us the boot. She probably never made it past page 1 in most cases, just looking for an excuse for a quick 'no'.

I believe one page is often more than enough to make a no decision, properly weighted. Some rejections will take more consideration, though.

To the OP, I have huge respect for what you've achieved so far, writing 5 novels, publishing two of them, and attracting two agents. You may not be where you want to be yet, but you're doing something right and you're already ahead of many aspiring writers. I suspect that if you do give up it will be temporarily, and wish you luck and success whatever you decide.

lorna_w · May 8, 2012

Oh, kiddo, do I feel for you.

I was in nearly your position six (?) years ago. Four finished novels, several published stories, awards, letters from agents and editors asking about my novels (before I had any), and I couldn't catch a break once I had the novels in hand. It broke my heart, broke my will. I was angry. I was hurt. I was fifteen years into a career that had netted me little that I had hoped for.

I don't regret taking a break. I never even thought it was a break--I thought I was done, forever, screw-'em-if-they-can't-see-what's-in-front-of-'em done. And yet here I am again, writing again. The good news this time is that if, after a short period of querying, I get no takers, I'm e pubbing. These days, we needn't let the industry determine whether or not we get read. No, probably I won't make much money if I go that route (some is better than none), but what I can do is retain my love for the process (which I do love--more times than not, at least). I'll never let them take that from me again.

I hope, truly hope, that in a month or a year or five years, you can find your own way back to your love of writing, too. Until then, hugs.

ether · May 8, 2012

For the novel you're getting query-bites on, but getting rejections for the partials, have you gotten a beta reader or three to go over your work with you? Obviously the concept is getting attention. Maybe a beta can tell you what the story itself is lacking. Betas are golden, let me tell you.

Otherwise, let me second (third? fourth?) what others have said. Take a step back for awhile. Maybe send your work out to some betas for opinions. In the meantime, take a deep breath, relax. Try writing something for fun without any intention of publishing it. Write for fun. Write because you love it.

Then go from there.

Good luck!

Drachen Jager · May 8, 2012

Undercover said:
That second agent I had never even helped me edit it.

Ha! I'll one-up you. My agent in our phone interview said she had notes and her assistant had notes. I asked about them and told her I wanted to do another edit before submitting, but she pressured me into going ahead. I never saw any notes. I still wonder if she even read that version, or if she just picked it up on her assistant's word (he loved it).

Mr Flibble · May 8, 2012

That second agent I had never even helped me edit it.

Not all agents edit, to be fair (mine doesn't) This is not a mark of a good/bad agent.

But chin up and read the PM I sent you

Take a break, write something just for fun.

Drachen Jager · May 8, 2012

RobJ said:
I believe one page is often more than enough to make a no decision, properly weighted. Some rejections will take more consideration, though.

B.S.

I have beta-read far too many times to believe that crap. Most first-time authors take a chapter to smooth out. Granted they SHOULD be able to go back and recognise their mistakes, but it's a blind spot, it happens.

I know not every manuscript deserves more than a cursory inspection, but to get through them at the rate she was means she's seeking out problems. EVERY first time author is going to have problems. A good agent weighs the good vs the bad. For instance Harry Potter would never have got an agent if they'd all taken that attitude, even as published after editorial help and perhaps agent help too, the first pages aren't much good, but obviously an agent read far enough to see the good sides and realise they potentially outweighed the bad.

The agent in question is less than a year in the biz, and I think she just let stuff pile up then did the immature thing and purged, rather than being a little more discriminating in the first place (or just keeping up with her work).

Mr Flibble · May 8, 2012

EVERY first time author is going to have problems.

Absolutely - and some not so first time too

However, the problems need to be minor. Have you ever put a book down while browsing because you knew by the end of the first page it just wasn't doing it for you?

If an agent has room for just one more client, they're going to go with the one that shows the least problems. And a writer shoudl be good enough they don't need a chapter to smooth out - those first pages should be the best they got (followed by another few hundred that are also their best, natch).

Undercover can clearly write - hell it took me long enough to get one agent, never mind two! - but it's not always the writing. Maybe....the agent was expecting hard-boiled and it's cute. Maybe any number of things. But most agents can tell within 5 pages whether a book is something they want (mostly - it might all fall apart in chapter ten) Why should they waste any more time if they know it isn't what they are looking for? Same as most browsers will put a book down after a page or two if it's obviously this isn't the book for them (which doesn't mean it;s a bad book, just not what they are after). Essentially, the agent is your first 'browser', except tehir criteria is different - it's 'who can I sell this to?' Even if they LOVE the book, if they don't have the contacts to sell it, they won't (usually) take it on.

Upshot? Given your writing is good, you need to find the agent who has the contacts to sell what you have written (or, depending on genre etc, maybe twist what yoyu write so it can sell - not write a book for the commercial, but write a book you love AND can sell), and who likes your style. This can take a while. Research can help you here, to really target the ones who will be a match.

Jamesaritchie · May 8, 2012

Drachen Jager said:
B.S.

I have beta-read far too many times to believe that crap. Most first-time authors take a chapter to smooth out. Granted they SHOULD be able to go back and recognise their mistakes, but it's a blind spot, it happens.

I know not every manuscript deserves more than a cursory inspection, but to get through them at the rate she was means she's seeking out problems. EVERY first time author is going to have problems. A good agent weighs the good vs the bad. For instance Harry Potter would never have got an agent if they'd all taken that attitude, even as published after editorial help and perhaps agent help too, the first pages aren't much good, but obviously an agent read far enough to see the good sides and realise they potentially outweighed the bad.

).

That makes no sense at all, and you really need to get over your Harry Potter bias, or at least get the facts straight.

In the first place, agents and editors are not beta readers, and beta reading doesn't mean you have a clue about how the process works.

You don't have to seek out problems with the vast majority of manuscripts. They jump out at you on page one, and when this happens, page five, or page 259 isn't going to get any better. First time writer, or fiftieth time writer, if you can't get the first five pages right, you shouldn't be writing.

Agents and editors are not looking for first time writers, fifth time writers, or nine hundredth time writers. They're looking for writers who can do the job right. When a writer can't, that his fault, and his responsibility.

As for Harry Potter, she changed the manuscript, primarily the first chapter, each time she sent it out, and when she got it right, she found a publisher.

And the first pages are not only good, they're brilliant. So is the rest of the novel. One primary reason for failure as a writer is thinking great writing is bad, and bad writing is great. And the whole editor showing to his kid thing is also blown way out of any resemblance to the truth.

A good agent knows good writing, good storytelling, and good characterization. So do good writers, and this is what they give the good agent and the good editor. No blind spots, no help from the agent, just the writer doing his job so the agent can do hers.

If you don't want an agent finding problems, then write a manuscript that has no problems.

Jamesaritchie · May 8, 2012

Undercover said:
And you know what? That second agent I had never even helped me edit it. .

Writers should not want agents to help edit, and should, in fact, avoid any agent who thinks editing is part of her job.

I don't know what issues your second agent gave you, but let me ask you this. What on earth do you expect an agent to do for you, other than send your manuscript to top editors?

Writing a good manuscript is your job. Rewriting and editing the manuscript is your job. An agent's job is purely and simply sending the manuscript to top editors.

Your agents did exactly this. Those editors said no. This is not the agent's fault. No agent you find can do anything worthwhile other than send your manuscript to top editors.

Either you write a manuscript those editors want, or you don't. For most types of manuscripts, seven is a pretty respectable number of submissions before moving to smaller publishers. Sometimes you have to start small, or mid-size at best, before finding a home with the big six. The right mid-size publisher can make this happen, and an agent has a better of selling to many of these publishers. Just because you can submit to them yourself does not mean the manuscript gets the same attention it would from an agent.

I understand burn out, and anytime you want to quit is a good time, but just concentrate on doing your job, which is writing an irresistible manuscript that agents don't have to help, and that editors can't refuse.

Do this, and you won't have to worry about the rest.

RobJ · May 8, 2012

Drachen Jager said:
The agent in question is less than a year in the biz, and I think she just let stuff pile up then did the immature thing and purged, rather than being a little more discriminating in the first place (or just keeping up with her work).

Yeah, that must be it. Thanks Drachen. That's the only explanation that makes any sense. The agent must've let the stuff pile up, then did the immature thing and purged.

MsJudy · May 8, 2012

RobJ said:
Yeah, that must be it. Thanks Drachen. That's the only explanation that makes any sense. The agent must've let the stuff pile up, then did the immature thing and purged.

Woah. How is that immature?

It's her job. She doesn't have any obligation to take on any writer unless she wants to. If she wants to be grabbed on Page One and won't read on unless you do, that's her right.

Have you ever been to one of the conferences where people volunteer to read their first page to the panel, and the agents/editors just yell out Stop! whenever they would stop reading and hit Reject? Yes, it's brutal. But boy, when you're the person who makes it past page one and no one has shouted at you yet, then you know you're on the right track.

Readers do it all the time. I read the back cover. I read the first page. Then I either buy the book or put it back on the shelf. I don't have time to sit in a bookstore reading the first chapter, hoping it will "smooth out."

It isn't the agent's responsibility to give you the benefit of the doubt. It's your job as the writer to grab her by the short hairs and make her want to keep reading.

Sorry. I don't mean to be an insensitive jerk. I totally understand discouragement and frustration and despair. Like many other posters, I reached that point where I thought I'd given up. Fortunately, it turned out to be just a long break. But to be honest, I'm so very, very glad now that no one would publish those early books. They weren't good enough. I can do better.

I suppose if I ever reach the point where I feel like This book is simply the best I'll ever be able to do, then I'll give up if it isn't published. But so far, I've always been able to write another one, and make it better than the one before. And that's my job, isn't it? It's not the agent's job to polish me up. It's mine.

MysteryRiter · May 8, 2012

Ugh.

Sorry, Undercover. I can't pretend to know what that's like, but I think you should remember that you must have talent to have landed two agents. I can't even get an agent to reply to fulls or partials I send them (they must be that bad...). Don't give up; this makes me sad to hear, because you've obviously got mad skillz. If I've learned one thing, it's that publishing is random. As long as you're persistent, your chance will come. Be patient, keep writing, and don't give up.

In three years when you're a mega-seller, you'll be glad you kept working at it.

Paul · May 8, 2012

thing is not to define yourself by your work.

if work is rejected by all, the work isn't up to scratch. but you still are.

that's cool. you improve the work.

thing is, it can take a long time.

either way, it's the work. it's not you.

that way, there is no 'emotional burn out'. just lessons in how to write better.

still, it hurrtttsss. of course it does. coz we forget. we think the work is ourselves.

but is isn't.

we begin to doubt ourselves, our life choice, our talent, our sanity,

but they're not being rejected . the work is.

why?

coz it's not good enough. yet.

Drachen Jager · May 8, 2012

RobJ said:
Yeah, that must be it. Thanks Drachen. That's the only explanation that makes any sense. The agent must've let the stuff pile up, then did the immature thing and purged.

What is your problem?

First, I said "I think" x is the case.

Second, there is absolutely no need to attack me, I wasn't attacking you or anyone else here.

Third, get off your high horse and think before you post next time please.

maybegenius · May 8, 2012

Jamesaritchie said:
Writers should not want agents to help edit, and should, in fact, avoid any agent who thinks editing is part of her job.

Respectfully disagree, actually. Many agents are actually former acquisitions editors or book scouts who decided to become literary agents instead. They can often see a diamond that's still cut a little rough and could do with a polish before editors see it, so they'll give (real, trained) editorial notes. My agent has a wonderful editorial eye and helped me give my MS a final oomph before we sent it out. Her notes were spot-on.

Competition in trade publishing is higher than ever. Many editors aren't just looking for raw talent anymore -- they're looking for books that are polished out of the gate. Less rough-edges work for them, and they can focus on the fine-tuning.

Undercover · May 8, 2012

Thank you for the kind and thoughtful compliments, I appreciate that. As for the agent editing thing, for me I would want an agent to help me on. Like May said, I would want an agent to help me polish my novels to their best before sending it to publishers. I seem to have gotten all the way to the agent getting full requests for my novels and personalized comments, although rejections, they are comments that they've read it.

My first agent was great in the beginning. She told me things I needed to fix, even pointed out my typos. I actually had offers from publishers from when I submitted beforehand, but declined them because their contracts were poor. And I also feared the same thing would happen like my first publisher...no doe...or very little of it. The agent wasn't interested in these small pubs either and ultimately let me go.

The second agent offered me rep back in December and I felt something off with her from the get go, so I contacted the other agents interested. I even got a counteroffer from another agent, but she wanted me to get it professionally edited which was out of the question. So I went with the first offer. She never really went into the novel at all. Just told me, "I love it." She never went into detail why or how she loved it. She said their were minor edits, just typos and such. She said she cleaned it up before she sent it out. Never saw that copy. There were lots of little things like that that bothered me. I was beginning not to trust what she was saying. But what turned me off was her correspondense, which totally sucked. When she scolded me on "I won't be held on the exact date, time, second" I snapped and fired her.

I'm getting the same damn thing I got before, much interest, but all declines. Oh, and I did the beta thing with each script.

I don't think I will completely give up pushing my novels, but the pen is down for now and has been for the past two months.

I really appreciate everyone's input. It helps, greatly.

blacbird · May 11, 2012

Be serene. Write for yourself and enjoy the journey. Don't worry about publication, it doesn't matter.

At least that's what all the really good, easily and well-published writers here tell us.

caw

I think it's time to throw in the towel

Undercover

I got it covered

mccardey

KRHolbrook

is not a My Little Pony

mccardey

Drachen Jager

Professor of applied misanthropy

Undercover

I got it covered

Mclesh

It's too hot

Al Stevens

RobJ

lorna_w

Hybrid Grump

ether

Drachen Jager

Professor of applied misanthropy

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Drachen Jager

Professor of applied misanthropy

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Jamesaritchie

Jamesaritchie

RobJ

MsJudy

MysteryRiter

Murder isn't so bad...

Paul

Drachen Jager

Professor of applied misanthropy

maybegenius

might be a giant

Undercover

I got it covered

blacbird