Any reason to believe in an afterlife?

Those consistent descriptions of the other side all occur during states of rather consistent chemical and neurological distress.

My faith in something more than merely physical come from moments of intense personal response from and with the universe. I call that "God." It proves nothing to anyone but me.

But a true rationalist could no more declare God impossible than I can state factually that God exists. Each position can respect the stance of the other. I choose that path.

yes, eternal damnation.


and ye don't want that hassle. for ever and ever. trust me.

Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

In my experience, it ain't the belief that matters; it's the practice that get you to the experience of vastness.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Maybe go read this thread.

I think there will never be proof, but I do have faith there's something more, simply because sometimes, weird stuff happens. And what happens often seems too outrageously correct to be dismissed as a coincidence or random chance.

But I've decided to just quietly have faith. I do not believe there will ever be proof.

I'm a Christian, but sometimes I have a thought about dying, and it feels like I can't breathe. Like I'm in a box. Even thought I believe in Heaven, I do have those claustrophobic feelings at times.

For me, I believe Heaven is real because of the way I feel when I read the Bible or when I write about Jesus or even see a miracle. I can't explain it, but it's like a warmth on my heart. When I hear certain Christian songs, I get cold chills. Maybe it's a physical response, but maybe it's something more. I choose to believe it's more.

I think it's natural to wonder 'what's next' after we die. I know even among Christians we have different ideas of what it will be like. I told my husband that I didn't need a mansion-- I'd be content with a shack in the far corner of Heaven.

Sometimes you just have to do things based on faith; not what you can see, but what you feel.

I hope you find the answers or peace you are looking for

I do. I'm Christian. But even believing that I'm going to heaven after I die doesn't put me at peace with the idea of death. Or growing older. I am not, unfortunately, one of those Christians who sings songs about how excited they are for Jesus' second coming. I'm not excited about it because I don't want to be here for Armageddon.

efreysson said:

I'm in one of my periodic slumps, pondering this subject...

The weight of my mortality just hits me now and then, and I thought I'd check for opinions.

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Someone once suggested to me that if chimpanzee's were the highest life form on this planet... they would write the history books (and to further this, the philosophy books as well).

The problem I see from reading your post is the limits of terms used, most particularly afterlife. I don't see things that black and white. I see things as a continuum, and as a continuum I can not allow myself to carry the burden of a 'weight of mortality'.

I think that humans attempt to define the unknown, and in those attempts we get stuck by the very limits imposed by our own humanity: The vessel cannot imagine being the fluid it holds...

=)

ohthatmomagain said:

...For me, I believe Heaven is real because of the way I feel when I read the Bible or when I write about Jesus or even see a miracle. I can't explain it, but it's like a warmth on my heart.

Sometimes you just have to do things based on faith; not what you can see, but what you feel.

I hope you find the answers or peace you are looking for

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Yeah. All of the above ^

I recommend Closer To The Light: Learning From the Near-Death Experiences of Children by Melvin Morse, M.D.

Both the intellectual and the faithful parts of me appreciate this book. Dr. Morse sets out to try and prove or disprove life after this one by studying the near-death experiences of children. He does not approach it as "I'm a scientist and I'm going to show you that near-death experiences can be explained away by science." Nor does he approach it as "Just have faith."

He really takes the subject apart, looks at it from various angles, various studies and various children.

From the book jacket:

Among the questions Dr. Mose and his research team address are: Do children have different NDE's than adults? Does one need to be near death to have an NDE? Is there an area of the brain that produces NDEs? Have the researchers missed any traits? Is there an area of the brain that may be genetically coded for near-death experiences? The answers they found may change your view toward death and dying forever.

Closer to the Light describes what it feels like to die, yet it makes a convincing case that the same "something" that gives us life survives bodily death. Here is a scientifically exemplary, enormously comforting contribution to the field of near-death research and to the belief in the right to die with dignity.

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And yes, I believe in life after death.

Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

In another section of this forum, I wrote a post describing an ultrasound for a pregnancy that ended in miscarriage. What I didn't mention, since it wasn't relevant to the OP's question, was that I had a Near Death Experience during the miscarriage. I was chanting to get through the pain of it. Then the doctor and nurse left the room and put my husband in charge of giving me water as I had refused an IV. I saw a path with a light obscured by darkness. And I knew that darkness was caused by my resentment of someone who had treated me badly. I thought about it, turned to my husband and said, "If I die tonight, please tell so-and-so he's forgiven." The room flooded with light, and I was in a state of spiritual ecstasy for days.

I feel for people who are at death's door and haven't gone through it. But fear of death? No.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Here's one thing you may like to consider:

Find a really good hypnotherapist and ask him/her to regress you to a previous life.

Assuming that the hypnotherapist is well-trained and understands the process, (and that you cooperate fully) it is entirely possible that you will have something of an epiphany. The experience may be wonderful or it may be terrifying - or both - but you'll likely walk out of there with a very different view of life. If you've lived before, there is no reason to believe that you won't live again. Kind of makes the idea of the end of this life a lot less scary, don't you think?

Just my 2c's worth.

My belief in the afterlife (of sorts) and reincarnation were solidified after reading about Dr Ian Stevenson's studies of young children who seemed to remember past lives. His were not religion-based studies, btw. Extremely interesting reading.

GailD said:

Find a really good hypnotherapist and ask him/her to regress you to a previous life.

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And then have him/her take you back to before there was anyone here. Then think about that time after which there will be no one here. And where will you be?

What will it be like after you die? Remember 1910? No? Chances are that's what it will be like.

I don't have an answer, I only wanted to let you know that I share very similar slumps. My greatest challenge in life, by far, is depression. And the worst manifestation of that depression is an obsession with meaning and mortality and a desire to feel, somehow, permanent.

When I am not less depressed, I sometimes think there's at least a possibility of something after life. When I am deeply depressed, the "truth" that this is all both temporary and meaningless is enough to paralyze me completely. It is always a battle for truth, between my two different brain-states.

People like my husband seem to find meaning in the here and now, even when they fully believe that their consciousness will cease to exist on every level. I don't. I admire that, and I wish I felt that way, but I just don't.

One of the worst physical experiences of my life was a medical procedure done under sedation when I was a kid, and I only remember a few minutes of it. My parents remember how traumatized I was after, but I don't. It's like it didn't happen. It doesn't mean anything to me. It means something to them, but when they are gone, it won't mean anything to anyone. Without memory, I don't know where meaning comes from.

So if you figure this out, clue me in, okay?

I think no matter what you religion you practice, you're still practicing in it for one of two reasons:

One: You've seen something, somewhere, that has made you continue to believe. Maybe a relative's cancer just disappeared, right after you spoke to your God(s) about it.

Two: Your family makes you.


Hopefully the former not the latter, but it sadly #2 is more frequent than some would think.

I'm a dedicated Baptist, and after seeing some of the things I've seen, my faith in Jesus isn't going anywhere.

A quote from Sherlock Holmes (that can reasonably be connected to matters regarding the afterlife):

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

When things happen that cannot be explained, it is thus reasonable to assume that there is an afterlife/other side helping things along.

I believe in an afterlife. Jesus said He is the resurrection and the life, and I believe Him.

I remember when I was young and really became aware of my mortality. Since then I've been doing my best to forget that one day I'm going to die, but every once in a while I remember and it freaks me out, and if I think about it too long I get nihilistic and start losing motivation so I do my best to re-direct my thoughts. Maybe we are just material brains, but even in that case I think it's possible to live a meaningful, happy life.

Lots of Shakespeare sonnets touch on mortality and death. This one muses on a kind of immortality.

When forty winters shall besiege thy brow,
And dig deep trenches in thy beauty's field,
Thy youth's proud livery so gazed on now,
Will be a totter'd weed of small worth held:
Then being asked, where all thy beauty lies,
Where all the treasure of thy lusty days;
To say, within thine own deep sunken eyes,
Were an all-eating shame, and thriftless praise.
How much more praise deserv'd thy beauty's use,
If thou couldst answer 'This fair child of mine
Shall sum my count, and make my old excuse,'
Proving his beauty by succession thine!

This were to be new made when thou art old,
And see thy blood warm when thou feel'st it cold.

(So not you, but, you know, your genes)

Shakespeare's most famous work on the subject is probably "to be or not to be," talking about "what dreams may come."

When I was six I saw my grandfather's ghost a week after he died. Having people I've loved die has made me believe they are still around, somehow. I can't say whether these things are just inventions to help me deal with death, though.

At this point in my life I find meaning enough – to me, living life is the 'meaning' of my life; my purpose. Sometimes I don't know why I'm doing it, sure. But I know I want to live.

The thought of my parents dying terrifies me. It makes me feel dislodged, and lost. Also, it makes me think about having kids because then I'll know – be able to hang onto the idea – that 'life' goes on even after I'm dead. Not my life, but the world continues. Somehow that's glorious to me. Probably a weird reason to have kids...?

Ultimately, it doesn't matter to me whether there is life after death, or not. If there is, I can only imagine it'd be relatively pleasant, or neutral (I don't believe in heaven or hell). If there isn't, well, then I'll be gone and won't feel or think a thing.

I'm not sure if that helps at all. I hope you feel better soon.

efreysson said:

Any thoughts? I'd love to hear how other people tackle this issue.

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I believe in life before death and believe we should make the most of our opportunity to enjoy it, and to help those around us enjoy it.

If there is an afterlife, we'll find out about it soon enough. If there isn't, we won't have to worry about it.

efreysson said:

I'm in one of my periodic slumps, pondering this subject.

The cold rationalist in me can't get over the fact that our modern understanding of evolution, formation of the universe and brain functions leaves no room for a soul or a way for one to go on after death. At the same time my human nature wants to believe in a continuation, and to somehow be assured that all accounts of the supernatural aren't simply the result of brain chemistry and falsehoods.
I mean there are plenty of people, at least in my country, who give rather consistent descriptions of the other side. But as soon as I feel a spark of hope that horrible rationalist strikes and reminds me that those people could very well be experiencing the same type of brain hiccup or just weaving commonly accepted stories into their . . . stories.

I guess I don't really know where I'm going with this. The weight of my mortality just hits me now and then, and I thought I'd check for opinions.
Any thoughts? I'd love to hear how other people tackle this issue.

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There's plenty of evidence for me, personally, to believe in God (another Christian here) and in life after death. I believe in heaven and look forward to it. But facing down mortality can be a scary thing. Have you ever given faith a real try?

It is interesting to see how NDE's vary so widely across cultures - indicating that there is a very strong 'cultural' link there.
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My answer:

The real question to answer is: What happens to software when the hardware dies?

There is no reason to believe that the software will end simply because the hardware does .. you can run the software perfectly well in a virtual machine long after the hardware has died. The only thing that is required? That the environment has a running backup process .. which is fundamentally happening once you have a single process in the system that is omniscient. (By definition an omniscient process is more than enough to be equivalent to having a backup of all other processes!)

Mac
(PS: To be pedantic - obviously the 'wetware' & 'software' on a human are very intertwined - so the 'backup' on my analogy is a virtualisation of many parts of the wetware as well - so it isn't solely a software backup But it's an analogy - not a religious text)

(PPS: Imagine you understood the truth about software & hardware backups ... and then were sent back to the 1st Century and had to explain to the locals how your functional iPhone was preserved even though the hardware was destroyed ... because the software was stored on the Cloud and put into a new body. Translate that into 1st Century Aramaic and back and you have something pretty indistinguishable from many theologies!)

(PPPS: Personally I don't see any reason to believe in the afterlife - any more than there is a reason to believe in Russell's teapot. But in a big universe that we don't fully understand there is one thing I'm sure of .... we are going to discover amazing things that make an orbiting teapot seem pretty dull..)

Sincerely ask God if he exists, He will answer you but don't listen for a voice. Open your heart and He will open your eyes.