Sat, Was sat -- and other "developments"

aruna

On a wing and a prayer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
12,862
Reaction score
2,846
Location
A Small Town in Germany
Website
www.sharonmaas.co.uk
I'm hearing this more and more in speech and writing these days. For instance, in a novel on my Kindle, it appears several times, as in ... glancing across to Lizzy, who was sat in the front passenger seat

Or, just now in a newspaper article: But it was then they saw Jake sat very quietly in the corner with Mrs Sadler's iPad.


Is this just a British thing? Is it done in the US? What other "new grammar rules" have you noticed?
 

Terie

Writer is as Writer does
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
4,151
Reaction score
951
Location
Manchester, UK
Website
www.teriegarrison.com
From my experience (40 years in Southern California and nearly 12 years in England), it's a British thing.

Me hates it, I does!
 

Priene

Out to lunch
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
6,422
Reaction score
879
I'm hearing this more and more in speech and writing these days. For instance, in a novel on my Kindle, it appears several times, as in ... glancing across to Lizzy, who was sat in the front passenger seat

That just sounds normal to me, and certainly not new. Maybe slightly more commonly used in the North of England.
 

shadowwalker

empty-nester!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
5,601
Reaction score
598
Location
SE Minnesota
My Brit friends use "was sat" all the time, which sounds horrible to my American ears!
 

Fallen

Stood at the coalface
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
5,500
Reaction score
1,957
Website
www.jacklpyke.com
From my experience (40 years in Southern California and nearly 12 years in England), it's a British thing.

Me hates it, I does!

Guilty. Me uses it, me does. I do edit it out, though (as best as possible, 'cuz, I was, like, sat all over the place until edits).
 

Alpha Echo

I should be writing.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
9,615
Reaction score
1,852
Location
East Coast
Ick. I've only read it in British novels.

Personally, I prefer "was seated" or just plain old "sat."
 

aruna

On a wing and a prayer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
12,862
Reaction score
2,846
Location
A Small Town in Germany
Website
www.sharonmaas.co.uk
My Brit friends use "was sat" all the time, which sounds horrible to my American ears!

It sounds horrible to my non-American ears, too. I never heard/read it untilfairly recently.

Ick. I've only read it in British novels.

Personally, I prefer "was seated" or just plain old "sat."

... or, "was sitting".
 

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
16,768
Reaction score
4,663
Location
Scotland
There's stacks of these misplaced tense phrases around in the UK.

They abound in soap operas, reality shows, talent shows...everywhere. Even in The Apprentice board meetings...

You can either kill yourself by trying to be King Canute, or grin and bear it.

:D:D:D
 

aruna

On a wing and a prayer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
12,862
Reaction score
2,846
Location
A Small Town in Germany
Website
www.sharonmaas.co.uk
There's stacks of these misplaced tense phrases around in the UK.

They abound in soap operas, reality shows, talent shows...everywhere. Even in The Apprentice board meetings...

You can either kill yourself by trying to be King Canute, or grin and bear it.

:D:D:D

See, I don't watch any of the above, except TA. I know that sometimes I am shocked at how unprofessional some of those candidates sound when they come on with their thick cockney accents. Or maybe I'm just a snob...
 

aruna

On a wing and a prayer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
12,862
Reaction score
2,846
Location
A Small Town in Germany
Website
www.sharonmaas.co.uk
Bad grammer is part of slang/dialect and can be charming -- you should hear how Guyanese speak! But when it starts to sneak into novels (except as dialogue) and newspapers -- I cringe.
 

Priene

Out to lunch
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
6,422
Reaction score
879
Bad grammer is part of slang/dialect and can be charming -- you should hear how Guyanese speak! But when it starts to sneak into novels (except as dialogue) and newspapers -- I cringe.

It doesn't even sound like bad grammar to me. Would you say He was perched on a ledge or She was slouched in a settee? Or are they UK English as well?
 

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
16,768
Reaction score
4,663
Location
Scotland
Don't understand your question -there's nothing wrong with either of your phrases.

He were perched on a ledge would not be uncommon here, is rather easy on the ear in appropriate local dialect, but is bad grammar.

It doesn't even sound like bad grammar to me. Would you say He was perched on a ledge or She was slouchedin a settee? Or are they UK English as well?
 

aruna

On a wing and a prayer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
12,862
Reaction score
2,846
Location
A Small Town in Germany
Website
www.sharonmaas.co.uk
@ Priene, re "was perched" etc:

I would, but I wouldn't say "I was slept".

I'm not good at grammar rules and can't explain them, as I'm too long out of school; it just feels wrong.

But what do I know. Where are the grammer pedants?
 
Last edited:

Terie

Writer is as Writer does
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
4,151
Reaction score
951
Location
Manchester, UK
Website
www.teriegarrison.com
It doesn't even sound like bad grammar to me. Would you say He was perched on a ledge or She was slouched in a settee? Or are they UK English as well?

Excellent question! I've dug pretty deep and still can't quite put my finger on it!

However, here are a couple of links that might help explain why it's wrong:

http://www.eng-lang.co.uk/grammar.htm -- scroll down to the entry for 'Sit Sitting', where the verb sit is equated in form to the verb 'walk'

http://painintheenglish.com/case/4796

My best guess (and I'm willing to be corrected by someone who knows more) is that 'was sitting' (similar to 'was walking') is the correct form of the past participle when used in the context of one's body movement. For example, 'The dog was walked this afternoon' is fine (if passive and lame...it's still grammatically correct), because someone else walked the dog; but you'd never say, 'I was walked down the street' if you were just walking (as opposed to being walked like a dog :)).

It might have to do with transitive/instrasitive usage? Maybe combined with reflexive usage? In essence, 'I was sat on the sofa' really means someone else sat me there; whereas 'I sat on the sofa' and 'I was sitting on the sofa' mean I sat myself there.

'Was sat' is fine for dialect, but it's not (ahem, currently :D) correct for strictly formal usage. I might have a character say it, but I would never use it in a formal context, such as in a publication for my day job as a tech writer, a formal business letter, an academic paper, a formal speech, and so on.
 
Last edited:

Priene

Out to lunch
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
6,422
Reaction score
879
Don't understand your question -there's nothing wrong with either of your phrases.

He were perched on a ledge would not be uncommon here, is rather easy on the ear in appropriate local dialect, but is bad grammar.

My question was a genuine one. Do you use He was perched? Because to me it's a similar formation to He was sat. My family is from Northern England and I spent part of my childhood in Manchester and I can't see why one would be grammatically right and one wrong. He was sat to me has a marginally different meaning to He was sitting.

It reminds me a bit of a discussion I once had about The lift mustn't be working, which is apparently Tyneside English but sounds totally normal to me. If style books say it's a regional form then I guess it must be true, but it doesn't feel like it.


@ Priene, re "was perched" etc:

I would, but I wouldn't say "I was slept".

I agree, but perched and sat are both verbs of, I don't know, position.

But do I know. Where are the grammer pedants?

Oh, they're out there, just waiting to swoop.

'Was sat' is fine for dialect, but it's not (ahem, currently :D) correct for strictly formal usage. I might have a character say it, but I would never use it in a formal context, such as in a publication for my day job as a tech writer, a formal business letter, an academic paper, a formal speech, and so on.

It makes me wonder what other things I say that sound normal but aren't considered grammatical. It's an known unknown, so to speak.
 

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
16,768
Reaction score
4,663
Location
Scotland
Yes, Prienne, I realised that on reading the responses. I misread your post - sorry. :)

He was sat seated...

I'm just one of the great unwashed, and accept these things as part of the complexity of the English language but it must make learning the nuances of English hard for non-native English speakers.
 

BethS

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
11,708
Reaction score
1,763
Is this just a British thing? Is it done in the US?

I've never encountered it before (I'm American) and it frankly sounds abominable. I gather it's colloquial usage in parts of England?

We have our own abominations on this side of the pond. Like using "had went" instead of "had gone." This is rural Southern-speak, and even though I'm more or less a Southerner, it makes me cringe.
 

BethS

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
11,708
Reaction score
1,763
It doesn't even sound like bad grammar to me. Would you say He was perched on a ledge or She was slouched in a settee?

Nothing wrong with either of those.

But in the "sat" example, the correct form that matches your examples would be "was seated" or maybe "was sitting." "Was sat" does not even exist as a grammatical form.

And it's quite horrifying to know that people don't even realize that.
 

Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
8,049
Reaction score
770
Location
Clearlake Park, CA
Website
www.strokingthepen.com
I'm hearing this more and more in speech and writing these days. For instance, in a novel on my Kindle, it appears several times, as in ... glancing across to Lizzy, who was sat in the front passenger seat

Or, just now in a newspaper article: But it was then they saw Jake sat very quietly in the corner with Mrs Sadler's iPad

It all sounds very abnormal to me, and I am US California born and bred. :)
 

DeaK

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
1,085
Reaction score
176
...Lizzy, who was sat in the front passenger seat
I read that as meaning Lizzy was placed there. Isn't that what it's supposed to mean?

What about "I sat him down on the stoop and told him to stay"?