What is poetry?

kdnxdr

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There is a scripture that says something like this:

A word aptly spoken is like an apple of gold in a setting of silver.

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William Haskins

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Nateskate said:
Poetry is the artful means of consolidating powerful thoughts into vivid word pictures.

but isn't that what a novel is as well; at least, ideally? what makes visually vivid powerful thoughts poetry?

Nateskate said:
A single word, well placed, can be poetic.

poetic, yes, but can it constitute poetry?

kdnxdr said:
There is a scripture that says something like this:

A word aptly spoken is like an apple of gold in a setting of silver.

but is its aptness what makes it poetic?
 

William Haskins

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jen.nifer said:
Today I will say, a rhythmic arrangement of words.

Tomorrow I may have a different definition.

okay. but if it's a rhythmic arrangement of words that makes it poetry, don't all song lyrics, childhood nursery rhymes and chants qualify as poetry?
 

William Haskins

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sarah s said:
Poetry is mental masturbation.

a cute quip, i suppose. but is poetry really analogous to physical self-gratification? the goal of masturbation is orgasm—so, if i follow your logic, coming would be analogous to writing the poem.

but it's obvious that poetry goes beyond satisfaction of the self, by evoking something in the reader. so, the selfishness inherent in masturbation falls to the wayside.
 

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In most artful writing (screenplays, novels, etc) the whole package is the art, the movie, the story, the song. Maybe in poetry it’s ALL about the words.
 

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oneovu said:
In most artful writing (screenplays, novels, etc) the whole package is the art, the movie, the story, the song. Maybe in poetry it’s ALL about the words.

okay. i think you're on to something here.
 

rhymegirl

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I thought this was a good definition of poetry or what a poet does:

"The poet, from his own store of felt, observed, or imagined experiences, selects, combines and reorganizes. He creates significant new experiences for the reader..."
Laurence Perrine
Sound and Sense

Now granted, this doesn't say exactly how (in what form--rhyme or non-rhyme) the poem is put together, but it does offer something tangible we can think about.
 

brokenfingers

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It seems poetry, like art, can be very subjective.

I think there's a fine line between wonderful prose and wonderful free-form poetry. I think maybe that's why there's so much bad stuff out there.

I'm trying to define it in my head but am having a problem right now iterating it. There's a subtle difference between the two, a certain lifting of the reader that occurs when it's a poem. I've begun some that seemed like they might just be a little story or anecdote, but somewhere within the lines, the poet had succeeded in lifting the piece above the plain and into the magical realm of higher prose (poetry)

Somewhere along the way, a switch was tripped within me that said:

Aha! Here is a fundamental human truth - revealed in a way that sings within me and echos in the corridors of my mind.

I'll look and see if I can find some examples of what I mean and come back. Maybe it'd help if each of us posted something to help explain what they mean. (or then again, maybe not)

(Please carry on and don't wait for me as I am easily sidetracked.)
 

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a certain lifting of the reader that occurs when it's a poem.

okay, now we're cooking with gas. exaltation of the spirit, or the heart, or the intellect.

i would agree that this is one major component of poetry.
 

mkcbunny

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I'm of the mind that what makes a poem a poem is the poet's declaration thereof. Which is not to say that other forms of writing cannot be poetic without such a declaration, but rather that our assessment of the meter, rhyme, meaning, metaphorical content, etc, is irrelevant to the poem's existence as such.

I might say this is a poem:

Night Wind

blow


Now, others might say that this is a lousy poem. But if I present it as a poem, then it is one. [And I'm not, btw. LOL.] Regarding the Williams examples discussed earlier, several folks didn't think they were very poetic—which is a reader's subjective interpretation. But the fact that it's presented as poetry makes it so. If I put my shoe on a pedestal and call it "art," it is. Doesn't mean it's good art, or that Duchamp didn't do the same thing more successfully with a urinal.
 

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William Haskins said:
okay, now we're cooking with gas. exaltation of the spirit, or the heart, or the intellect.

i would agree that this is one major component of poetry.
Does that mean that an unaffecting [for lack of a better word-one that fits the exhaltation criteria hinted at] poem isn't really a poem, or just that it isn't poetic?
 
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William Haskins

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okay, this is a breakthrough of sorts. one can call any piece of writing (typically broken into lines) poetry, just as one can call any media slapped on a canvas or piece of paper or wood a painting. so, yes, subjectivity is a force in the determination.
 
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William Haskins

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mkcbunny said:
Does that mean that an unaffecting [for lack of a better word-one that fits the exhaltation criteris hinted at] poem isn't really a poem, or just that it isn't poetic?

well, exaltation would certainly be in the eye of the beholder, but i think human reason offers us the capacity to see that a piece of work is capable of moving a reader, somewhere, even when it fails to move us personally.

the same can be said of opera. with rare exceptions, it moves me not one whit, but i have no problem believing with some certainty that it moves many others. i don't disqualify it as opera simply because it fails to affect me.
 

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But the thing that still bothers me is that there has to be some distinction between a poem and a few sentences strung together or even one sentence simply placed on different lines. You see what I mean? If all you do is put a few sentences together, I mean anybody can do that. What makes it stand out? What makes it poetic? What makes it meaningful?

If I just write something like:

I was walking down the street
when suddenly I turned
and saw the most amazing
sports car coming down the road.

Is THAT a poem????
 

mkcbunny

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William Haskins said:
well, exaltation would certainly be in the eye of the beholder, but i think human reason offers us the capacity to see that a piece of work is capable of moving a reader, somewhere, even when it fails to move us personally.
What about work that moves us negatively, as opposed to work that has no effect at all? Bad reaction vs. no reaction. [I'm going with "no" but putting that out there].
 

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well, just to put it in rather common terms, sometimes we hate movies, right? but there can be no doubt they are movies.

but why do we hate them? perhaps they were highly flawed in concept, or in how that concept was executed. in other words, despite the fact that it has the form of a movie, it failed in its function, which is to entertain or stimulate emotion/thought.

we can also hate movies that function successfully, for instance those that disturb us to some great extent or that fail to connect with our own experience or curiosity.
 

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rhymegirl said:
But the thing that still bothers me is that there has to be some distinction between a poem and a few sentences strung together or even one sentence simply placed on different lines. You see what I mean? If all you do is put a few sentences together, I mean anybody can do that. What makes it stand out? What makes it poetic? What makes it meaningful?

that's a good question, and it might serve you well to look at it from the other side, determine how you define prose and what its function and characteristics are.
 

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mkcbunny said:
I'm of the mind that what makes a poem a poem is the poet's declaration thereof. Which is not to say that other forms of writing cannot be poetic without such a declaration, but rather that our assessment of the meter, rhyme, meaning, metaphorical content, etc, is irrelevant to the poem's existence as such.

I might say this is a poem:

Night Wind

blow

Now, others might say that this is a lousy poem. But if I present it as a poem, then it is one. [And I'm not, btw. LOL.] Regarding the Williams examples discussed earlier, several folks didn't think they were very poetic—which is a reader's subjective interpretation. But the fact that it's presented as poetry makes it so. If I put my shoe on a pedestal and call it "art," it is. Doesn't mean it's good art, or that Duchamp didn't do the same thing more successfully with a urinal.
I'm afraid I must disagree with this idea. I think this sentiment is part of the problem causing people to lament the state of poetry and it's alleged demise.

A poem is an offering.

Many people think it's just ink on paper and treat it accordingly. I wrote this and have declared this a poem. HERE.

I disagree. It is a piece of the writer's soul distilled through ink. A fragment of the writer's life as translated through the written word. It is these qualities that make it a poem, good or bad, not the mere act of writing it and giving it the label.

Even when the poem is not good - like a lot of teenage heartbroken stuff, for instance - the emotion contained within is still palpable to those on the sidelines and so it is obvious to all that it is indeed poetry, though maybe not the best kind.

I'm not an adherent of the "I Say It's Poetry, So It Is" school.