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Tenses in third person limited

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e.l

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Hello,

I've been planning a story for some time, and currently the way I want to write it is in third person limited, present tense. However, I get worried about writing it this way because of the many, many negative opinions on books written in this way.

The reason I want to is because, in places, the POV characters are forced to forget things they knew earlier on in the story. Whenever I write in past tense, I don't like to include things that the characters have forgotten in case it comes off as slipping into omniscient. I've thought about writing it in first person, too, but I'd rather not because there are multiple POV characters and I don't like writing in multi first person POVs personally.

Anyway, main question. If I did write it in the past tense (third limited), and I had characters knowing things at the beginning that they didn't later on, would that be okay? Sorry if this is a stupid question, it just feels weird to me writing their forgotten memories in past tense, as, well, they don't remember them any more. (Like in American Gods, Shadow cannot remember what the "forgettable man" (sorry, hilariously enough I can't recall a name if there even was one) says when the story is in past tense. When the story is in present tense, others can remember what the forgettable man said for a limited time. This is what mainly made me want to write it in third present, but of course AG is not fully written that way.)

Also, do you dislike third present? Or are you neutral to it, depending on the story itself?

(Apologies for rambling question. :( )
 

HoneyBadger

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Write it however you think is best for the story, and write it as well as you can.

These are the kinds of questions no one can answer but you, though many of us will urge you to perfect one POV and one tense before playing around with others.

Present tense gets a bad rap because it's easy to do poorly and very difficult to do well.
 

leahzero

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The reason I want to is because, in places, the POV characters are forced to forget things they knew earlier on in the story. Whenever I write in past tense, I don't like to include things that the characters have forgotten in case it comes off as slipping into omniscient.

An issue like this shouldn't dictate which tense you write in. (And why would you need to include forgotten things in past tense, but not present?)

If you make it clear that the characters experience something that makes them forget things, it doesn't matter what tense you're writing in--the reader will understand what's going on.

Use the tense that feels most natural and right for the story.

As for opinions on present tense, there are those who tolerate, love, and hate it. Present tense has a higher propensity to be annoying when handled poorly. Most stories are written in past tense, so present tense may be slightly jarring, depending on what the reader typically reads. A YA reader, for example, may not bat an eye, since present tense is much more common in YA.
 

BethS

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What does writing in past or present tense have to do with what a character knows or doesn't know? I'm not seeing any connection there.

If you want to write in third-person limited, then you only include things that character knows or has experienced or can remember. Period. (And also--those things need to be relevant to the story.) If things happened to him when he was a child that he can no longer remember, then you cannot mention those events without violating POV.

None of that has anything to do with whatever tense you're writing in.

As to the tense itself, I know that present tense is a growing trend, particularly in YA novels, but I personally can't stand it and won't read it.
 

Bufty

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Agreed. If the POV character has forgotten something and the reader knows he's forgotten it - that's it -gone - why mention it.

Are you perhaps guilty, e.l.. of over-explaining?
 

WriteMinded

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The reason I want to is because, in places, the POV characters are forced to forget things they knew earlier on in the story. Whenever I write in past tense, I don't like to include things that the characters have forgotten in case it comes off as slipping into omniscient.
I don't understand this. When you write in present tense, you do like to include things the characters have forgotten? If they've forgotten something, how can it be included?

If I did write it in the past tense (third limited), and I had characters knowing things at the beginning that they didn't later on, would that be okay?
Again - and it could just be me, haven't had that third cup of coffee yet - I don't understand how using present would change anything. Are you saying you think it would be less confusing for the reader?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, it just feels weird to me writing their forgotten memories in past tense, as, well, they don't remember them any more.
If you aren't writing the memories after they've been forgotten, it shouldn't matter.

Sorry, I didn't read American Gods, or I might better understand your concerns.

Also, do you dislike third present? Or are you neutral to it, depending on the story itself?

(Apologies for rambling question. :( )
I don't care to read present tense books. I'm reading one now and I keep questioning the author's use of tense when he goes back in time. Not saying he's done it wrong (he's a meticulous writer), just that my mind jumps out of the story and into grammarian mode. Not a good thing. However, you have to write your story the way you think it will work best. Maybe you'll have to try it both ways. See what betas think.
 

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It sounds like it might be omni no matter which tense you use. If they can't remember something, the only ways to bring that up are omni or having a different character mention the forgotten thing.

OTOH, I could see where past tense might require a lot of hads if the exact timing of thoughts, etc, matters a lot. If you are thinking of present tense so that you can avoid the clumsier sounding forms of the past tenses, that could make good sense.
 

kuwisdelu

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Before thinking about the tense, I would actually question the structure of the book. Is it possible to start where the characters first remember things and tell the parts they've forgotten in flashback/dual narrative?

Present tense gets a bad rap because it's easy to do poorly and very difficult to do well.

I disagree. I'm of the opinion both tenses are equally difficult to do well. The flaws when they're "done poorly" tend to be exactly the same between them. It's just because most people are more used to past, they tend to overlook these flaws because they're more used to them.
 

Buffysquirrel

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My characters too are forever forgetting things :). I write in first person, past tense. So I wouldn't have a problem whether you wrote this in past or present. I suspect you would have a wider potential audience in past, but that needn't dictate what tense you use. Use the one that feels right for your story.

After years and years of reading mainly first or third person, past tense, it can take me a while to adjust to variations like second person or present tense. But if the story's gripping enough, after a while that's what I'm paying attention to. After all, I had problems with some of the quirkiness in The Road, but it's still a favourite book.
 

Brigid Barry

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Kate built a working hovercraft out of paperclips and chewing gum. She navigates it to her bff's house.

Kate eats peanuts that taste funny and loses consciousness.

Upon waking, Kate walked out the door and couldn't make sense of the giant wad of paperclips and chewing gum. "What is this?" she asked.

The reader knows that it's a hovercraft, Kate does not. Kate has lost her memory, presumably from funny tasting peanuts or the subsquent loss of consciousness.

Even though it's all past, you are telling it in sequence. Kate built a hovercraft, ate (potentially) poison peanuts and now has no idea what a hovercraft is.

You don't need to put it into present tense unless you want to.
 

e.l

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What does writing in past or present tense have to do with what a character knows or doesn't know? I'm not seeing any connection there.

I'll try to explain it better, sorry.

The things that characters forget *are* relevant, but are forcibly erased from their minds during the story. The story begins before said things are erased, and after they're erased the characters recall events from the story differently than to what they did before.

So, if it was in present, the characters would live through the things they forget later on normally. Then, the memory is wiped, and they don't recall things from earlier on. (I won't be doing masses of parts on what they remembered after the memories were taken, as I know that would be annoying. There's just going to be hints that they've changed from earlier on where relevant.)

If it was in past, I'd feel I'd have to write it as they would recall it (with memories altered.) I could do it with them gradually realizing that what they can recall are lies, but that would be made confusing (IMO) as one POV character would be moving through things completely differently to the other without explanation for some time. (For example, a secondary character is completely erased from one MC's memory, and he fills in the gaps where that character would have been with another. The other MC can clearly recall the forgotten character, and would go through the events knowing he was there in past tense.)

Blah blah, whoever said I over-explain is completely right as you may be able to tell (lol). Basically, I don't like writing what *actually* happened in third-limited past when a character can't recall it, as that slips into omniscient. In present, the events would be happening as they happen, so I can have a character go through the events that he later forgets/has altered.

I hope that made sense. :_:#

EDIT: Forgot to add, one character never actually remembers something pretty major. Someone tells him what happened and he believes them and he knows he had the memory wiped, but he can never accurately recall what happened. (So the figuring out in flashbacks wouldn't work perfectly.)

(And I've just realized it sounds like I could just use the other POV. Without boring you further with reasons, that also wouldn't work unfortunately.)
 
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HoneyBadger

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Past doesn't mean a trillion years ago; past-tense can mean it happened five minutes ago.

Unless your MCs are relating things from their youth, the amount of distance, time-wise, you use is up to you.
 

e.l

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I feel odd writing things in past tense that they would not be able to recall at the end of the story. Is this stupid? ;_;#
 

Bufty

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I have no idea what you are talking about.
 

Buffysquirrel

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I'm beginnning to think your problem is more perceived than actual, although I am intrigued by your story all the same.

As I see it, you start the story with events happening 'this way'. Then, later, characters have their memories erased or altered, and remember things as happening 'that way', or don't remember them at all.

What you need to remember is that even though you are writing in past tense, any point in the story is the story's 'present'. So page 2, while the reader is reading it, is the 'present'. When they reach page 403, that is the 'present'. The fact it's written in past tense is merely a convention.

POV can't change in retrospect. If a scene is written in third limited, it can't become written in omniscient due to subsequent events. If your characters knew 'x' on page 9, they're still allowed to have known 'x' on page 9 even if they've forgotten it by page 99. Don't over-think this :).

I have a point in my novel where divine intervention rolls time back and events the narrators have already recounted suddenly haven't happened. Most of the characters don't remember these non-events, but two do. Those who do remember have conversations with the others that go like this:

What's this? he said. I don't remember this.
This is from the not-time. The time that will not have happened.
That's real?
For those who remember it.

Write the story in past tense. It's fine.
 

BethS

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In present, the events would be happening as they happen, so I can have a character go through the events that he later forgets/has altered.

A scene written in past tense is understood by the reader to be taking place in the story's present reality. IOW, "events would be happening as they happen." Using past tense (which has been conventional in novels for hundreds of years) doesn't require you to reveal things a character doesn't know or has forgotten. It doesn't force the use of ominiscient POV. It doesn't change the way the information is revealed, or how the plot progresses. Characters live through the story the same way they would if it were written in present tense.

So there's no reason (that I can see anyway) that you couldn't use the past tense to do what you propose.
 
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