Working with a New Horse Rider

dirtsider · Apr 13, 2012

I have a scene where I have someone who hasn't ridden much is now travelling with a group of experienced riders. Keeping pace with the experienced riders is not a problem. They're more like guards at this point.

Big thing is, what kind of advice would a more experienced rider (who is also riding) give a novice rider. I've taken riding lessons but it's been a few years since I've done that and the teacher was on foot. We were also in a training ring. This training is done while on the move. She, the trainer, can show the novice rider what he needs to do but I'd like to have some terminology that she can use.

Another thing, she's already made sure the saddle and stirrups were adjusted but eventually she's going to make sure he can do it on his own.

Lehcarjt · Apr 13, 2012

I vaguelly remember there being an entire thread on this exact topic last fall (or so).

However, to start again, usually the first thing to teach a rider is how to stop, turn, make the horse move forward.

Once the rider has been on a while (and getting sore), I'd usually talk about how to sit properly - weight in the feet thus keeping off the horses back (especially at the trot).

A lot of advice tends to happen as things are going wrong too. The thing about your scenario is that advice is going to be wanted / given based on the situations the rider runs into. So effective riding is more important than pretty riding.

WriteKnight · Apr 13, 2012

Yeah, I searched 'beginner' 'horse' 'balance' and found the old thread. This should answer a lot of your questions.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218726&highlight=horse+beginner+balance

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218726&highlight=horse+beginner+balance

Ariella · Apr 13, 2012

Nowadays, most formal riding lessons happen in enclosed rings or arenas, but it looks like your rider is going to be learning on the road, which presents a slightly different set of challenges.

Good posture is still important, but mainly because an uneven seat will make the beginner's horse become sore and stiff faster than the others. Your beginner is also likely to be introduced to rough terrain sooner than arena riders. She'll need to learn to shift her weight forward while going up hills and lean back while going downhill. Some horses like to run down steep hills because it's easier than shifting their weight back and keeping their balance. Safety-conscious riders generally discourage this behaviour because it can end in disaster if the horse trips. The rider may also introduced to jumping early on, when the horse decides to hop over a puddle or a rut.

Depending on how much aggravation you want your character to experience, there are lots of quirks you can give the horse. Many horses can't resist snatching at the tasty, tasty vegetation. Some will even lunge right off the trail to get to it. After learning to use nice soft hands on the reins, your character may have to learn to harden her grip instantly when she senses a lunge coming.

A horse that hasn't been away from home much can also be nervous about all kinds of things found on the road. It may get snorty and prance sideways around anything from geese to funny-looking logs. In rural areas, aggressive dogs can be a hazard, and in pre-modern settings you may find loose livestock. (A friend of mine who used to lead equestrian vacations in rural Romania reported that it was not uncommon for him to have to drive off loose stallions when he was on the trail.) The rider may have to learn to sit deep and stay relaxed even as the horse is starting to freak out.

Fenika · Apr 13, 2012

What they teach the noob depends on their own style. I used to think weight in the stirrup was important and heels had to be dowwwn. Now I trot with feet barely resting in the stirrup, even at the trot and feet pretty level (well, when I'm doing it right). It's not just the big difference between styles like western and english. Little things make a huge difference.

So do you have a culture and time in mind? It not, any general good advice is good. Or maybe throw in some bad advice- crank on their mouths to stop and if that doesnt work dear noob, we'll get you a stronger bit. We dont have time to fuss with these horses on the trail. (I mock, but there's the cultural justification in there. Folks on the road might not want to fuss with long term training. Just make it work.)

narmowen · Apr 13, 2012

It also depends on what style the beginner is learning. Western or English?

Buffysquirrel · Apr 14, 2012

Learn what frightens that particular horse. I remember for one animal it was fishing rods. No idea. Really. But the horse could not be got past them without having its eyes covered.

ArtsyAmy · Apr 14, 2012

Might seem obvious, but how about, "Duck!" If they're traveling through woodland trails, there might be branches that can hit a rider in the face (of course, the horse's head is lower than the rider's, so the horse keeps on going and the rider gets smacked in the head by a low-lying branch or gets his face scratched by the end of a branch--one of the dangers of trailrides). Ariella mentioned that the horse might want to sample the vegatation--agreed. I don't ride, but have been at my children's lessons and have seen horses try to eat grass (perhaps your character's horse might try to nibble something on tree they're passing). Apparantly that's a no-no when the horse has a bit in its mouth.

dirtsider · Apr 14, 2012

Thanks, WriteKnight. I remember seeing information relating to horses and horse care but not new riders. I'll take a look at those threads.

Anyway, this noob is a modern (aka 21st Century) man who finds himself in a post-apocolyptic setting. So the POV / experienced rider is teaching him Western style since those were the types of saddles most easily scrounged once the apocolypse hit. (That and I can probably get access to (and research) Western saddles rather than trying to try and write about or create specialized war saddles.)

ETA: the post-apocolyptic setting could be considered late medieval with a bit of Colonial America thrown in. Very limited firearms, mostly blackpowder, but most of the artilary is magic-based, rather than firearm based. It's a lot easier to cart around a mage than cannon and all the associated equipment.

narmowen · Apr 14, 2012

Better have him check for dry rot. That can be a big problem with western saddles. Saddle sores, too. Especially fif the saddle doesn't fit.

dirtsider · Apr 14, 2012

Thanks, Narmowen. Good point to remember.

Chazevelt · Apr 14, 2012

I've had horses for 47 years, and trained them as well as given riding lessons and taken novices on trail rides. I've found the biggest thing beginners struggle with is balancing themselves in relation to the horse's movement, and controlling the horse. Most tend to either let the horse wander where it may- mostly, as pointed out earlier- to tasty vegetation. Some want haul on the reins too much, either restricting the horse's forward movement or dragging them off course. Another is learning how to ask the horse to turn, either in a circle or simply switching sides. Most horses neck-rein, but beginners want to fist a rein in each hand and drag the horse's head one way or the other.
I'd be more than happy to answer specific questions, or take a look at what you're doing and offer suggestions. Feel free to PM me.

BlueMouse · Apr 14, 2012

Also be aware that a beginning rider, after spending the entire day in the saddle, is going to be seriously sore. Like, want-to-die, I-may-never-move-again sore, for at least the first few days, until his body adjusts to using the different muscles necessary for riding vs. walking.

jclarkdawe · Apr 15, 2012

dirtsider said:
I have a scene where I have someone who hasn't ridden much is now travelling with a group of experienced riders. Keeping pace with the experienced riders is not a problem. They're more like guards at this point. (emphasis added)

Why would they care about how well she rides? Or how comfortable?

As far as controlling the horse, you put a lead line on it and lead it with another horse and rider (ponying). If she gives you any grief, or is a problem, or doesn't like riding with the horse between her legs, you throw her face down over the horse and tie her legs and arms underneath the horse. Too noisy? Hit her over the head or gag her.

If I was guarding someone, the last thing I'd be worrying about is polishing her riding skills. Most I might tell her is "duck," but mainly because if she clotheslines herself, then I'm delayed while I fix that problem.

Anyone who hasn't ridden much is going to be so sore and in pain, they're not going to be happy campers and be interested in learning anything other then when the torture is going to end. Without the right clothing and having skin toughened by daily riding, she's going to be sore, bleeding, and having muscles ache that she doesn't even know she has. Experienced riders could travel 30 - 40 miles a day, day after day. Try riding 30 miles in a day (a normal schedule might be 4 hours in the morning, 2 hours for lunch (so the horse can graze), then another 4 hours in the afternoon)(unless you're an endurance rider) and see how you'll feel.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

dirtsider · Apr 15, 2012

jclarkdawe said:
Why would they care about how well she rides? Or how comfortable?

As far as controlling the horse, you put a lead line on it and lead it with another horse and rider (ponying). If she gives you any grief, or is a problem, or doesn't like riding with the horse between her legs, you throw her face down over the horse and tie her legs and arms underneath the horse. Too noisy? Hit her over the head or gag her.

It's important to know how well she rides and how comfortable she is because she's the one teaching my noob. Why would I want to beat up on my experienced female rider when it's the male rider who barely knows his saddle from his reins? :tongue

The reason said man is being 'guarded' is because he has information the leaders of the people he's traveling with wants. He's not a captive. The 'guards' are more for his benefit and mostly because he ended up traveling with a group of scouts who have just come off duty and are traveling in the same direction anyway. And he's pretty willing to travel (and learn how to ride) because he's totally lost and out of his element. My experienced female rider is actually the first person who is treating him decently, like a person, and is showing concern for his welfare. The other scouts will treat him with a degree of respect since he apparently has something their elders want but they're going to let my female MC take the lead on handling him. They will come to her aid if necessary. This way only one person is 'compromised' so to speak and the others can focus on security. (And getting home after several weeks of scouting on the border.)

The people he had been traveling with previously (just enough to get the worst of the beginner rider soreness over and done with) basically did a "good Samaritan" deed and let him travel with them for the few days before they were stopped by the scouts. Since most of the people he had been traveling with were on foot, it wasn't like he had to deal with endurance riding prior to meeting up with the scouts. He didn't want to be left alone so he dealt with the noob soreness. The only reason why he has a horse is because he took one prior to meeting up with the first band of travellers. So it's 'his' so to speak. He's had some knowledge of what to do about getting on and off a horse but limited actual physical experience until he had to actually make his escape.

But I was wondering if "ponying" was actually possible in real life. She may have to do that for him. Thanks!

Any words my experienced rider would use that would make the noob go "huh" and make her explain them?

jclarkdawe · Apr 15, 2012

dirtsider said:
Originally Posted by jclarkdawe
Why would they care about how well she rides? Or how comfortable?

As far as controlling the horse, you put a lead line on it and lead it with another horse and rider (ponying). If she gives you any grief, or is a problem, or doesn't like riding with the horse between her legs, you throw her face down over the horse and tie her legs and arms underneath the horse. Too noisy? Hit her over the head or gag her.

Click to expand...

It's important to know how well she rides and how comfortable she is because she's the one teaching my noob. Why would I want to beat up on my experienced female rider when it's the male rider who barely knows his saddle from his reins? So I lost track of who dangles and who bounces. Shoot me. But it doesn't make much difference to what I was saying. Other then a guy is probably going to be in a bit more pain after riding a day thrown over a horse.

The reason said man is being 'guarded' is because he has information the leaders of the people he's traveling with wants. He's not a captive. Sounds more like they're protecting him, then guarding him. Slightly different philosophy. The 'guards' are more for his benefit and mostly because he ended up traveling with a group of scouts who have just come off duty and are traveling in the same direction anyway. And he's pretty willing to travel (and learn how to ride) because he's totally lost and out of his element. My experienced female rider is actually the first person who is treating him decently, like a person, and is showing concern for his welfare. The other scouts will treat him with a degree of respect since he apparently has something their elders want but they're going to let my female MC take the lead on handling him. They will come to her aid if necessary. This way only one person is 'compromised' so to speak and the others can focus on security. (And getting home after several weeks of scouting on the border.) Salve (fat, grease). More salve. And extra padding for the saddle. Reality is you can't do a whole hell of a lot with a dude to make them more comfortable. You might have them three point (Stand in the stirrups with your hands resting on the horse's neck.)

The people he had been traveling with previously (just enough to get the worst of the beginner rider soreness over and done with) basically did a "good Samaritan" deed and let him travel with them for the few days before they were stopped by the scouts. Unless the scouts are slowing down, he's going to be sore. If you're used to riding a hour or two a day, then suddenly go up to six or seven, your body will feel it. If you go from a 3 mph pace (walking) to 5 mph (a lot of trotting and some cantering), your body will feel it. Not glamorous, not mentioned a lot in books, but it's the way of the real world. Since most of the people he had been traveling with were on foot, it wasn't like he had to deal with endurance riding prior to meeting up with the scouts. He didn't want to be left alone so he dealt with the noob soreness. The only reason why he has a horse is because he took one prior to meeting up with the first band of travellers. So it's 'his' so to speak. He's had some knowledge of what to do about getting on and off a horse but limited actual physical experience until he had to actually make his escape. To some extent, time in the saddle will teach him more about finding a position of comfort in the saddle then anything else. Everybody and everything try to obtain the most comfortable position to do something possible. Humans, if they can get their brains out of the way, will do this naturally.

But I was wondering if "ponying" was actually possible in real life. She may have to do that for him. Thanks! Ponying is very possible. Her horse will need some training in doing this (depending on the horse this can be very quick or a day or two). Pack horses can be led in a line of five with a little practice. Ponying would give him the opportunity to find the most comfortable position on the horse.

Any words my experienced rider would use that would make the noob go "huh" and make her explain them? Just about anything to do with horses. Clicking to the horses, three-point, ponying, dally, and the list goes on.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

blackrose602 · Apr 15, 2012

Unless the scouts are slowing down, he's going to be sore. If you're used to riding a hour or two a day, then suddenly go up to six or seven, your body will feel it. If you go from a 3 mph pace (walking) to 5 mph (a lot of trotting and some cantering), your body will feel it. Not glamorous, not mentioned a lot in books, but it's the way of the real world.

This. So much this. I took riding lessons for years (an hour at a time, 2-3 times a week), but never did more than two hours in the saddle at a time. Then for my birthday one year, my best friend ( a very experienced horsewoman) rented horses for an all-day trail ride. By the time those 8 hours were over, I could barely get off the horse, and driving home in my manual shift car was a lesson in exquisite pain. Your guy is going to learn a whole new meaning to the word "agony."

dirtsider · Apr 15, 2012

Thanks, Jclarkdawe. Your info is definitely what I'm looking for.

Hmm. I might just end up putting him on a pack horse or one of the team's spare riding horses, which the scout team would have, and have her pony him that way. The gear from that horse would go on his. At a living history farm I go to on a regular basis, they have a 'ride the draft horses' day. Since one of the staff saddled up one of the newer (and younger) horses to get the horse used to being ridden more, I'm going to go ahead and have most of the horses in the hands of my MC's and their allies be 'broken' to the saddle as well as their 'usual' duties, especially since hoofing it is the main means of transportation, human or otherwise.

Having the team slow down is not a problem since they can send messages on ahead explaining the reason why they've done so. Getting the guy there in one piece is more important than speed at this point. And half the team can go on ahead if necessary. In this scene, they can take the time. Later, he's going to be going on a mission, riding again, but by then he'll have a bit more experience and be in a better physical condition.

Thanks, folks!!

WriteKnight · Apr 15, 2012

A pack horse does not have a riding saddle on it, it has a pack saddle. Depending on the culture and era, this is basically a wooden frame with tie-points on it for lashing packs to. Usually no stirrups. Not something you can ride in. Just so you know.

"Draft" animals - in the modern sense, are larger breeds. And WIDER. Sitting on a draft is even tougher than sitting on something like a quarter horse, arab or thouroughbred. Your hips feel it almost immediately - you have to spread them WIDE. (Yeah, I've ridden and jousted on them. I prefer not to.)

dirtsider · Apr 15, 2012

Don't worry, I wasn't planning on putting my characters on draft horses, just that I've seen someone ride one in real life. The horses in the story are most likely Morgan horses or "regular" riding horses breeds. And I wasn't planning on putting the character on a pack saddle itself, just the moving the saddle onto a horse regularly used for a pack horse so it can be 'ponied'. The MMC's horse is more likely to follow along with its new "herd" rather than run off on its own. Given that they're in friendly territory during this scene, nothing's really going to attack them. And if something does spook it outside of town, chances are they'll be able to find it again fairly soon since it's a riding horse, rather than the draft horses generally used in the area outside the town itself.

Brigid Barry · Apr 23, 2012

dirtsider said:
I have a scene where I have someone who hasn't ridden much is now travelling with a group of experienced riders. Keeping pace with the experienced riders is not a problem. They're more like guards at this point.

Big thing is, what kind of advice would a more experienced rider (who is also riding) give a novice rider. I've taken riding lessons but it's been a few years since I've done that and the teacher was on foot. We were also in a training ring. This training is done while on the move. She, the trainer, can show the novice rider what he needs to do but I'd like to have some terminology that she can use.

Another thing, she's already made sure the saddle and stirrups were adjusted but eventually she's going to make sure he can do it on his own.

When I went horseback riding in Ireland there were several people on the trip who were beginners. One girl in particular I helped her.

She had a tendency to tip forward. I kept telling her to SIT BACK. She finally figured out when I told her "look straight ahead". If you aren't looking between your horses ears you aren't sitting up.

Get off your horse's back. Going up a hill you should stand in your stirrups to free the horse's back so it's easier to get up the hill. Riding for long periods of time on the road you will have your stirrups longer than if you were going to be in an arena or jumping for a short period of time.

Biggest novice mistake ever is not having an independent seat to hands. So a lot of the newbies on the ride would yank on their horse's mouth while asking the horse to go faster. Conflicting signals.

Granada · Apr 25, 2012

Seems like you already have a ton of advice. but I'll echo what KateM said about eyes and add...

Look up, look where you want to go. knees, ankles, feet, fingers, back sore. Collapse in the dirt when you're done.

A

dirtsider said:
Don't worry, I wasn't planning on putting my characters on draft horses, just that I've seen someone ride one in real life. The horses in the story are most likely Morgan horses or "regular" riding horses breeds. And I wasn't planning on putting the character on a pack saddle itself, just the moving the saddle onto a horse regularly used for a pack horse so it can be 'ponied'. The MMC's horse is more likely to follow along with its new "herd" rather than run off on its own. Given that they're in friendly territory during this scene, nothing's really going to attack them. And if something does spook it outside of town, chances are they'll be able to find it again fairly soon since it's a riding horse, rather than the draft horses generally used in the area outside the town itself.

shaldna · Apr 26, 2012

I'm an endurance rider, and a former instructor/coach, and a dressage rider, former 3 day eventer.

What I can tell you right now is that the rider is going to be SORE after a day, even at walk - the lower back muscles are going to hurt. The chaffing will be bad for a guy - a trick I tell my male students is to wear a pair of tights under their jeans/jodhs.

The area between the rectum and the tackle is likely to be sore too - being exposed to a hard surface for a prolonged period.

Most folks can deal with walk and trot pretty much instantly to be honest. Balance might be a little off, but it soon corrects.

Working with a New Horse Rider

dirtsider

Not so new, really

Lehcarjt

Been here, Done this.

WriteKnight

Arranger Of Disorder

Ariella

...

Fenika

narmowen

Lost in the woods

Buffysquirrel

ArtsyAmy

dirtsider

Not so new, really

narmowen

Lost in the woods

dirtsider

Not so new, really

Chazevelt

BlueMouse

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?

dirtsider

Not so new, really

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?

blackrose602

dirtsider

Not so new, really

WriteKnight

Arranger Of Disorder

dirtsider

Not so new, really

Brigid Barry

Under Consideration and Revising

Granada

shaldna

The cake is a lie. But still cake.