Yet another question about guns...

I'm no expert but rooftop on moving car? Depends on angle, skill, distance etc.

A mac 11 will probably be better suited for running up to the window and firing through. From a range SMGs tend not to be the best bet (generally less accurate. You probably will hit but an assassin who works on probability isn't doing a very good job).

As for sniper rifles, A semi-auto you could probably get off 2-4 rounds again depending on angle, distance and whatnot. I'm not familliar with the SRS so I don't know if it's semi or bolt action. But regardless, setting up a shot with a sniper rifle on a moving target will take time. The idea is to use one bullet. You want that bullet to hit.

Honestly, against a moving car, why not go with a pre-planted bomb? Gonna be a lot more reliable than either weapon and doesn't require the shooter to be very good at what he does (which hitting moving targets requires).

Is the target a political figure (that is, someone who is in a car that doesn't have to stop for lights and whatnot)?

Ah. I was thinking you had a professional and was wondering why you had him doing the job in such an iffy way.

If you have two detectives getting sprayed with fire from a rooftop they are mostly likely going to end the pursue, take cover, and call for backup. I don't think it's going to matter much whether they are hit by sub-machine gun fire or just multiple rounds from a rifle. I'm no expert however.

If they're down, of course, that's another story. I assumed you meant the vehicle was being hit with rounds.

You can watch videos on YT of actual police chases being fired upon. Most of them are when they are being fired upon from another vehicle, but they might give you some ideas.

Well, not really. I've fired sub-machine guns (including a Thompson) but I'm no expert on them. A Mac-11 might not be my first choice because it's a .380 ACP (and if the distance is very far); they are other versions that use a 9mm, I think. There's always the good old M16 or Uzi.

In a story you can make just about anything work, as long as it's reasonable (you don't usually want to have someone hitting a moving target at 100 yards with a pistol or that sort of thing).

Given it's an ad-hoc situation and not a planned killing, it depends on what's at hand. A mac-11 would work if that's what he's carrying around.

Any weapon would probably do the job. If you want bullet-riddled, I'd suggest automatic weapons. So, what's the situation, where did the weapon come from? Think that's where you should be looking for answers. As long as that fits together, it'll do.

PtaHeru1:1 said:

Hello all,
I was wondering about the overall stopping power of the Mac-11. In my novel I have an assassin shooting at a moving car from a two-story rooftop, and I'm wondering if a Mac-11 would be an effective way of riddling that target with bullets.

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Hi PtaHeru,

The .380 is a terribly small caliber. It would have virtually no stopping power over any kind of real distance, like from the top of a roof down to the street below. Put a city block between you and a .380 and you could just catch the rounds with a baseball glove.

For instance, Hornady's FTX .380 ammunition, which is quite hot and is for self-defense, is only doing 840 fps or so and hitting with 141 foot pounds at 100 yards. It's all downhill from there; you wouldn't shoot at cars with it.

Also, sub-machine guns are built for engagements in very close quarters - guy jumps out of the broom closet with a hatchet, you panic and pull the trigger, 10 rounds out of the 50 in the magazine hit the bad guy and he falls over. Phew!

But wait, here's the good news: I'm guessing a lot of readers probably won't know what the hell a MAC-11 is in the first place. At best, they'll think it's a MAC-10, that scary gun they use to see on Miami Vice. So unless the reader is an avid shooter who likes to pick nits, you can probably get away with this.

PtaHeru1:1 said:

I was thinking about giving the assassin a 'bull-pup' sniper rifle like the 308 Winchester SRS; but I don't know how many rounds someone could get off with this kind of weapon. And there's a question of which weapon would be the most compact, being that the assassin would have to flee on foot afterwards to an awaiting vehicle.

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You were on the right track here. There's no need to go in the direction of being totally silly when you can be a lot closer to reality and still get your bullet-riddled car into the scene.

There are dozens of carbines (short rifles) that your bad guy could get his hands on that would be more believable, and effective, than a MAC-11. If he's new in town and doesn't have any toys on hand to work with, well - where I live you can pick up a Ruger Mini-14 at the local Wally World. Sure, they ain't the most accurate thing in the world, but more than capable of riddling a car with bullets (and probably giving the guys inside an acute case of lead poisoning). But realistically, if your guy is experienced with firearms, and wanted to be able to put a lot of fire down on a car, he'd be using an AR-15 or AR-10, or HK-Something, or what have you. Basically, take your pick of any of the dozens of really effective semi-auto carbines out there, and you're good to go.

Hope this helps.

add me to the "a mac-11, unless he's either an idiot or just trying to pepper the car with what he has, knowing it isn't great for much more than scaring them, is a pretty bad choice" camp--great little thing for shooting folks up close, but the car? He might as well just pick up a handful of gravel and throw it and save his bullets.

Yeah. Pretty much all of those mini-SMGs are only useful in close quarters.

It depends on what options he has available, but if he knows that the scenario of having to pepper the roof was a possibility I'd think he'd bring at least an assault rifle, probably a small machine-gun if he wants to do the job properly.

Odds of a MAC, UZI or other compact SMG (of any calibre) killing the intended target under those circumstances approach zero.

Odds of success with a full-sized SMG, slim.

An AR would give pretty decent odds, depending on circumstances.

A machine-gun wouldn't guarantee success, but I'd give good odds, especially if he can stop the car in the first seconds.

On the whole though, if the guy's a pro, can't he come up with a better plan than that?

Drachen Jager said:

. . .
Odds of a MAC, UZI or other compact SMG (of any calibre) killing the intended target under those circumstances approach zero.

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Yeah, the more I think about a guy firing a MAC-11 at a moving car, from the top of a roof, the more I think the safest place you could possibly be on that particular block would be in the car.