I worked in a dungeon...what do you want to know?

Celia Cyanide

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I am writing a TV pilot about a BDSM Dungeon. I used to work in a commercial dungeon for about a year. If you knew nothing about such a place, and you were watching a TV about it, what would you be curious about? What kind of things would you like it to show you?
 

GeorgeK

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Is this a documentary, or simply the setting for a story? If the former, I would find it more disturbing than interesting, but then my tastes used to be called square and are often not what Hollywood makes and not what sells well. If the latter, there are many ways to pull it off. I'd watch a good story and the setting would be novel if nothing else.
 

Amadan

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Oh, that kind of a dungeon. Darn it, I was going to ask you about trap doors and gelatinous cubes. :D
 

Debio

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Oh, that kind of a dungeon. Darn it, I was going to ask you about trap doors and gelatinous cubes. :D

Me, too. I was getting excited. They have those now? Awesome!

It's kinda like that feeling when the most popular girl in 11th grade smiles and waves at you, you smile wave back, only to realize she was waving to her best friend who was behind you.

For the real question, I have almost no idea what goes on in a dungeon, so almost anything would work. However, I would likely lose interest if some of the more extreme stuff, whatever that may be, were introduced too early. Build up to it.
 
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Bufty

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Never been to one but from what I recall of previous documentaries on normal channels folk (who usually preferred to remain anonymous) were - by consent and after payment of the agreed fee - restricted by binding, tying, masking, suspending in chains or other devices if desired, and their individual physical fantasies of being restricted, whipped, smacked, chided, dominated, put on a leash, allowed to wear odd clothes, drink urine or whatever other wacky fetish turned them on, played out in a fashion claimed not to cause serious or lasting bodily harm.
 
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thothguard51

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Perchantage of patron/clients who prefer to be dominated to those who want to dominate...

Of those who want to dominate, how often does a client go too far and inflict real pain...
 

Celia Cyanide

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Is this a documentary, or simply the setting for a story?


It is a fictional setting for a story, thanks for asking!

I have the outline written, so I am wondering...what stuff would you like to see "explained," (although shown, not told)?

Like a scene with two girls, one is about to do a CBT session, so she teaches the other girl what type of rope to use? I'm trying to include some interesting details. I would think that someone who would be drawn to watching something like this would be interested in learning a few things?

Thanks for the responses so far!
 

Fenika

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I'm with Thoth. I'd want some psychology and such. A dungeon is an interesting setting (though I too came to read about the Other dungeon), but the characters there are a thousand times more interesting.
 

GingerGunlock

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I worked at the London Dungeon. You'd be surprised how many people used to ring up thinking we were the other kind of dungeon...


It would be funny if they showed up without calling, in chain mail and everything. "Do we give you our quests, or do you have quests to pick from?"
 

DrZoidberg

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How much is it for a session, how safety conscious is the staff and do they have that torture device with leather straps and the metal thingy on it that feels so good?

I think the BDSM documentary style these-people-are-weirdos have been done to death. I'd love to see a show like this that tried to sell it to the viewer. We all have that voice in our heads aching for somebody to take control in our lives and removing our sense of respinsibility. Speak to that voice. I'd love to see that show.
 

5398cane

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Possibly a collaring not sure how you can tie that into a dungeon though?

Flogging?
 

Katana

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I think the BDSM documentary style these-people-are-weirdos have been done to death. I'd love to see a show like this that tried to sell it to the viewer. We all have that voice in our heads aching for somebody to take control in our lives and removing our sense of respinsibility. Speak to that voice. I'd love to see that show.
It's true. Too many people get wigged out by the thought of BDSM because a) they don't understand it, and b) they've never tried it. If the show can be presented with respect, all necessary compassion, and even humour, that would be something that people might be intrigued enough to tune in and continue to watch.

Are you able to tell us what company would broadcast this? North American or European? In the US, there is a great deal of difference between what you can show on the networks, and what goes on on the racier cable channels.
 

chartruscan

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This may not be helpful, I would assume that the general public is ignorant to the point of not knowing what they'd like to know, in specifics. By which I mean, we may ask for more information that may only perpetuate misunderstandings and stereotypes.

I do think that getting at the psychology of any aspect of it would be fascinating. Seriously look at why people are attracted to the lifestyle, the various reasons they get into it, various ways in which it is healthy, with maybe glimpses at various ways in which it isn't (show the good and the bad --I don't know, I'm just snowballing here!)

And it seems like a situation where having a point-of-entry character who might be just as clueless as some of the audience would be helpful, someone they can identify with on the journey of discovery into this world.

I for one would like to see more of the aftermath, the aftercare that might be involved. Where the roles get dropped or transformed. I've also heard that the sub is the one with the power, but I've never really seen that shown (it was mentioned on an ep of The Inside, but they didn't really have time to explore that).
 
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mtrenteseau

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I just discovered this discussion while writing a scene in which one of the characters goes into the after-hours entrance of a private club's dungeon to confront a murderer.

Before I started working on this book, I discussed it with someone familiar with BDSM. Her opinion was that if the murderer was someone in the lifestyle, ultimately the discovery and capture should be facilitated by someone also in the lifestyle. Otherwise the impression is that BDSM people are serial killers.

The most interesting conversation I had with her was about a madam who was arrested in a wealthy neighborhood north of town. I asked her what one could do that would make a client pay $10,000 for one night. She pointed out that while humiliation and pain were the most visible part of BDSM activities, there was an underlying trust that was vital - trust not to cross boundaries, trust to be discreet, trust to be safe, sane and consensual. And when one hires someone in that context, that trust is very valuable.

That's what I'd want to see explained in a television series - that there's much more to it than flogs and ropes, although the proper use of flogs and ropes should be demonstrated as well.

From the other side, what would I like to know for my own writing, is that what I've written is respectful of the community.
 

mtrenteseau

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We all have that voice in our heads aching for somebody to take control in our lives and removing our sense of responsibility.


I think it goes both ways, and there's an element of roleplaying. The high-powered CEO may feel so overwhelmed at the end of the day he wants nothing more than to be a puppy at the feet of his mistress. The trial lawyer may want to feel the pain he believes he brings to the parties he opposes. The Formula One chief may want to be treated like a concentration camp prisoner.

But on the other side, someone who feels they have no control and no power may want to be in a powerful role. The skill lies in taking control, not taking revenge.
 

Mark G

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I'd want to know about the psychological background and current mental state of the participants on all sides.

Unless we're talking trap doors and gelatinous cube type dungeons. Then I know all about the mental state of the participants. What the heck, I say? Gelatinous cubes are supposed to be extremely rare. Why can't I face down a dozen kobolds for that +5 Armor and Holy Avenger sword? Why does it have to be a dang gelatinous cube and a dragon and five wraiths? I appreciate a Monty Haul DM as much as the next guy. Damn killer DMs.
 

DrZoidberg

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I think it goes both ways, and there's an element of roleplaying. The high-powered CEO may feel so overwhelmed at the end of the day he wants nothing more than to be a puppy at the feet of his mistress. The trial lawyer may want to feel the pain he believes he brings to the parties he opposes. The Formula One chief may want to be treated like a concentration camp prisoner.

But on the other side, someone who feels they have no control and no power may want to be in a powerful role. The skill lies in taking control, not taking revenge.

I've heard this repeated many times. I think it's 100% pure myth. But it just keeps being repeated over and over that few people every question it.

I think it's a lot more complicated. Human sexuality in general is very complicated.

First off, we live in a very sex negative culture. The mere fact that you openly and honestly ask yourself what you want from your sex life is not normal. Peer pressure and expectations weigh heavy. As does your hopes and wishes for a family life. The kind of people you're sexually attracted to, might not be the best candidates for raising children. People have varying libidos. People are very often frightened by what turns them on. We like to live with the illusion that we can control what turns us on. And then add to the mix that we're under tremendous performance pressure in competing for mates.

All this leads to a dysfunctional sex life being the norm. When it comes to sex, it's normal to be completely fucked up.

I've been active in the Stockholm/Swedish kinky scene almost 20 years now. I've organised kinky parties, been a focal part of the scene, and I've been married twice with my 24/7 slaves. Within BDSM I've tried everything and done it all. Most of it I'm not eager to do again. But at least I've done it. So I think I've learned quite a bit about what turns our crank.

Submissiveness is the easiest to sort out. We're under a lot of day to day pressure. Life itself is often just one long string of humiliation. We're adapted to endure it. But some of us are just a little bit more sensitive than others and find it hard to cope. It's just a release to let go, and be freed from responsibilities, at least within the D/s context. That how I see it. But these people can be found within any walks of life. I've met submissives with any kind of job, and with any background. I've met submissives who blame it on childhood traumas, and I've met submissives who have nothing to blame it on. I think it's innate. Some are just wired in their brains to make them function well as submissives. A submissive person also typically works well in any kind of relationship. They're often good at adapting. Even to quite shitty situations. That's why it often takes them a long time before they finally make it to the kinky scene.

Masochism is just brain chemistry. Some people have a high enough release of endorphins vs plain pain to justify getting beaten. Either you are born with it or you aren't. The martial arts scene (and sports in general) is overrun by masochist types. People who revel in pain and love to push themselves, but who would rarely incorporate it into their sex lives.

And then there's the perverts. People who just need novelty to stay awake and stay in a relationship.

The above three can overlap within the same person or be completely separate. Women who are purely masochistic are often annoyed about the sadists they're dating trying to dominate them.

Dominants are a whole different bag of tricks. As a rule, they're (we're) all compensating for something. They got some deep seated fuck-upness that turns them control freaky. They can be emotionally distant, unable to form emotional connections to others. They can be extremely emotionally needy who requires extraordinary lengths at which their partners "proves" their love and devotion. Psychologically it's a very diverse and weird group.

It's not made easier by submissives often treating them like a fun ride at the fun fair, which they hop and on and hop off. The dominant is expected to deal with all the emotional fall out and drama from their submissive without having anybody to turn to themselves for support. So it becomes a self selected group that have very strong psyches, but with the above issues. A lot of dominant men simply burn out. They have the interest but they aren't mentally strong enough, which leads them to engage in abusive behaviour toward women. When they've burned all their bridges they eventually leave the scene.

The demographics play a part. There's much more men who are openly kinky than women. There are many more men who are dominant compared to women. So kinky men simply have to put up with more bullshit than kinky women, if they want to get laid. Dominant women often act like a bull in a china shop, with the psyches of the submissive men they dominate. They do it because they can.

For all the above reasons a lot of kinksters are content with just treating this as a fantasy they'll never if rarely act upon. So it's easy to see how dungeons fill a niche.

The issues that brought people to being dominant often go away or are made milder as we get older. There's quite a few who take the road starting out as dominants and end up as submissives.

Yes, I'm aware the above is a simplified description, and anybody reading this will find something that doesn't quite suit them. BDSM is an extremely diverse range of sexual behaviours.
 

DrZoidberg

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Speak for yourself.

*Puts on glasses and tweed jacket. Holds a pen to a notebook*

Here come lie down on this couch. Yes, relax. Now tell me about your childhood. Did you have a complicated relationship with your father?

No, I'm not really asking. I simply don't believe that there exists a human who is perfectly at peace at all times. The main reason for this is that we're wired to never be satisfied. That's why we're the species that have towering cathedrals and the International Space Station. It's what makes us great. But it's also a constant source of insecurity. We're built to strive toward safety and security, as well as novelty and excitement and then when we get there we always find that it's not enough.

Thomas Metzinger in "the Ego Tunnel" explains it very well.

Both dominating others (in a BDSM context) and allowing oneself to be dominated (in a BDSM context) are strategies by which we can opt out of the greater hamster wheel of human striving. It's mental trickery to make the world a more pleasant place for us.

That's how I see it.
 
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Amadan

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No, I'm not really asking. I simply don't believe that there exists a human who is perfectly at peace at all times.


Who said anything about being perfectly at peace? That doesn't mean that letting someone else take control would make me happy.
 

kuwisdelu

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I think it goes both ways, and there's an element of roleplaying. The high-powered CEO may feel so overwhelmed at the end of the day he wants nothing more than to be a puppy at the feet of his mistress. The trial lawyer may want to feel the pain he believes he brings to the parties he opposes. The Formula One chief may want to be treated like a concentration camp prisoner.

But on the other side, someone who feels they have no control and no power may want to be in a powerful role. The skill lies in taking control, not taking revenge.

I've heard this repeated many times. I think it's 100% pure myth. But it just keeps being repeated over and over that few people every question it.

I agree, but I don't particularly like your "explanation" any better.

Why do we need an "explanation"? Why are people so fucking curious about our mental state or "psychological reasons" for what we enjoy? Maybe it's just fucking hot.

Does anyone ever question a vanilla person if they say they prefer blondes or brunettes?

"I prefer brunettes."
"Why? Did your parents beat you as a child? Are you a strung-out CEO?"

Why is there this pressing need to rationalize everything and put some stupid Freudian spin on our kinks? It seems to me people just feel this burning desire to rationalize everyone who likes something different. Why do you prefer red to blue? Is it because you always suppress your anger around others and need an outlet in your favorite color? Why does sex have to be different? Why can't we all just like what we like?

If all submissives and masochists are these rich CEOs who need to let go and all these doms are these people who feel out of control and need to control something, then what about the switches and the sadomasochists?

Both dominating others (in a BDSM context) and allowing oneself to be dominated (in a BDSM context) are strategies by which we can opt out of the greater hamster wheel of human striving. It's mental trickery to make the world a more pleasant place for us.

That's how I see it.

Oh give me a fucking break.

I think sometimes people just like what they like and there isn't always some deeper reason for it all.

Celia, I'd like that addressed in such a series. Maybe it's all Freudian and can be psychologically rationalized for some people. But what about the people who just like what they like, and that's all there is to it?

ETA: Maybe one of the characters has a boyfriend or girlfriend with this need to rationalize their behavior, and keeps trying to figure out why they're into that sort of thing, maybe so he or she can "fix" them or "help" them with their "issues", but ultimately has to give up, because there is no big "why", it's just part of who they are, there's no deeper meaning than their favorite flavor of ice cream, and the partner has to finally accept that.
 
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DrZoidberg

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I agree, but I don't particularly like your "explanation" any better.

Why do we need an "explanation"? Why are people so fucking curious about our mental state or "psychological reasons" for what we enjoy? Maybe it's just fucking hot.

I totally agree. I'm very much prepared to accept that I'm just full of psychobabble and I have no idea what I'm talking about. All I can speak from, is my highly subjective perspective. The more I learn the more diverse the scene gets, and the fewer differences I can see between vanillas and kinksters.

It's still interesting to speculate about IMHO.

Does anyone ever question a vanilla person if they say they prefer blondes or brunettes?

Explaining isn't the same thing as questioning.

"I prefer brunettes."
"Why? Did your parents beat you as a child? Are you a strung-out CEO?"

Now you're doing the common mistake of equating a breaking of the norm with something broken. I never claimed that being kinky was unhealthy or something especially dysfunctional. I'd say that the happiest more sexually fulfilling relationships I've come across have all been kinky ones.

Why is there this pressing need to rationalize everything and put some stupid Freudian spin on our kinks? It seems to me people just feel this burning desire to rationalize everyone who likes something different. Why do you prefer red to blue? Is it because you always suppress your anger around others and need an outlet in your favorite color? Why does sex have to be different? Why can't we all just like what we like?

Now you've swerved into justifications for ones interest. That too assumes there's something wrong.

If all submissives and masochists are these rich CEOs who need to let go and all these doms are these people who feel out of control and need to control something, then what about the switches and the sadomasochists?

People can have many facets to their personalities. People aren't monolithic. We're different people in different contexts and around different people.

I think sometimes people just like what they like and there isn't always some deeper reason for it all.

Which is what I tried to say. I apparently didn't say it very well.
 

kuwisdelu

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Explaining isn't the same thing as questioning.

Either way, people seem to want explanations. I don't think there has to be any.

Now you're doing the common mistake of equating a breaking of the norm with something broken. I never claimed that being kinky was unhealthy or something especially dysfunctional. I'd say that the happiest more sexually fulfilling relationships I've come across have all been kinky ones.

Now you've swerved into justifications for ones interest. That too assumes there's something wrong.

Err, but I'm pointing out the fact that I think viewing it that way is fallacious and unnecessary.

People can have many facets to their personalities. People aren't monolithic. We're different people in different contexts and around different people.

Well, yes. I never said differently.

Which is what I tried to say. I apparently didn't say it very well.

It felt to me like most of your post was explanations and generalizations.