Anglican VS Catholic

DavidZahir · Apr 3, 2012

I need to find out more about actual practices that were different between the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church in the 1820s or thereabouts. Not the doctrinal or organizational matters, but the difference in rituals, in communion, in what kinds of things the two did that were different on a day by day basis.

For example, did Anglican Priests prostrate themselves before a cross when taking holy orders?

Any help in this direction would be most welcome!

L.C. Blackwell · Apr 3, 2012

This isn't a terribly specific article, but you'll probably find the heading Nineteenth Century and After: 1801-1914 to be of some help, particularly the short discussion of the "Catholic Revival" which takes place in the 1830s. Prior to that time, many so-called High Church practices seem to have been banned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Church_of_England

Deleted member 42 · Apr 3, 2012

DavidZahir said:
I need to find out more about actual practices that were different between the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church in the 1820s or thereabouts.

You might research the Oxford or Tractarian movement; it kicked into full gear a bit later, c. 1830, but you'll find lots of commentary about the specific differences in ritual practice, and even things like church design.

JimmyB27 · Apr 4, 2012

Aw, I thought this was going to be one of those 'who would win in a bare knuckle boxing match' type things.

DavidZahir · Apr 4, 2012

I have been researching the Oxford/Tractarian Movement, but it has proven difficult to find details. Finally came across a few sources that try to explain why the Roman Catholic Church does not regard the Church of England priesthood as part of the Apostolic Succession, and that at least was helpful.

L.C. Blackwell · Apr 4, 2012

David, do you have access to a good university library? This sounds to me like something a librarian/library researcher could help you with--at least point you to further sources.

You might also want to search for contacts among Anglican Church historians in England--the first thing that springs to my mind would be to hunt up someone at Oxford or Cambridge--possibly a librarian there.

Deleted member 42 · Apr 4, 2012

DavidZahir said:
I have been researching the Oxford/Tractarian Movement, but it has proven difficult to find details. Finally came across a few sources that try to explain why the Roman Catholic Church does not regard the Church of England priesthood as part of the Apostolic Succession, and that at least was helpful.

Go for primary sources--Books by John Keble.

See: Jay, Elizabeth. The Evangelical and Oxford Movements.(Cambridge English Prose Texts). Cambridge University Press, 1983. ISBN: 9780521286695.

Reardon, Bernard M. G. Religious Thought in the Victorian Age: A Survey from Coleridge to Gore Longman, 1980. ISBN: 9780582491267.

L.C. Blackwell · Apr 4, 2012

Also of passing interest might be Anthony Trollope's novel Barchester Towers. I'm not sure how much of any ritual it contains, but it definitely revolves around the High Church vs. Low Church conflict.

Snick · Apr 4, 2012

DavidZahir said:
Finally came across a few sources that try to explain why the Roman Catholic Church does not regard the Church of England priesthood as part of the Apostolic Succession, and that at least was helpful.

Unless things have changed recently, the Catholic Church regards most Anglican priests and bishops as being valid. It depends on which bishop consecrated which priest or bishop, but the female priests re not recognised.

DavidZahir · Apr 4, 2012

Well, there's also the issue of how they regard communion, but that gets into a lot more esoterica.

Lil · Apr 4, 2012

Well, there's the obvious difference that the Catholic mass was in Latin and the Anglican service was in English. You could get hold of the Anglican Book of Common Prayer and compare it to a Tridentine missal.

Deleted member 42 · Apr 4, 2012

Lil said:
Well, there's the obvious difference that the Catholic mass was in Latin and the Anglican service was in English. You could get hold of the Anglican Book of Common Prayer and compare it to a Tridentine missal.

This stopped being quite true in the era in question; hence references to the Tractarian / Oxford movements, which brought back the Latin mass, communion at the altar rail, and auricular confession, among other things.

mirandashell · Apr 4, 2012

And when you say Anglican, do you mean High Anglican? Cos the Anglican church is pretty broad.

Deleted member 42 · Apr 4, 2012

mirandashell said:
And when you say Anglican, do you mean High Anglican? Cos the Anglican church is pretty broad.

The era in question is the one in which the "High church" was spawned, and John Henry Newman/Cardinal Newman/Blessed John Henry Newman left the Anglican church. s.v. Apologia Pro Vita Sua.

steamforged · Apr 4, 2012

I love this forum! You're asking about stuff I also very much need to know. My setting is ~30 years later, is all. Have you come across any good resources on Anglican priest training/seminary, and just general information on the role and practices of Anglican priests?

Lil · Apr 4, 2012

Medievalist said:
This stopped being quite true in the era in question; hence references to the Tractarian / Oxford movements, which brought back the Latin mass, communion at the altar rail, and auricular confession, among other things.

I thought the OP was asking about 1820. Isn't the Tractarian movement later? 1830s?

L.C. Blackwell · Apr 4, 2012

Lil said:
I thought the OP was asking about 1820. Isn't the Tractarian movement later? 1830s?

It is, of course, but in this case one can work backwards a little--deducing previous events from those better known. For instance, if we read that a certain practice--i.e. the Latin Mass--was re-introduced by the Oxford/Tracterian movements, it's obvious that it wasn't widely practiced, if at all, prior to that time. Thus, a picture of the 1820s can be gradually traced.

Priene · Apr 5, 2012

If your story is actually set in England, the Catholics might not have had a church. Many of them weren't built until after 1829. Come to think of it, most Catholics didn't actually arrive until the 1830s and 1840s.

DavidZahir · Apr 5, 2012

The character involved is a curate in the Church of England but his sympathies were in the same direction as that which the Oxford Movement became. Anyone actually attending a Catholic Church is not part of the story at all. Rather in a moment of need to feel again a connection to his faith, he tries enacting something akin to a Catholic form. In private. There are no Catholics anywhere in earshot at the time, just to make that clear.

Deleted member 42 · Apr 5, 2012

DavidZahir said:
The character involved is a curate in the Church of England but his sympathies were in the same direction as that which the Oxford Movement became. Anyone actually attending a Catholic Church is not part of the story at all. Rather in a moment of need to feel again a connection to his faith, he tries enacting something akin to a Catholic form. In private. There are no Catholics anywhere in earshot at the time, just to make that clear.

Definitely read Apologia Pro Vita Sua.

Also, the two books I linked to upthread; they're frequently used as Victorian Lit texts, and are readily available in used condition.

Anglican VS Catholic

DavidZahir

Malkavian Primogen

L.C. Blackwell

Keeper of Fort Blanket

Deleted member 42

JimmyB27

Hoopy frood

DavidZahir

Malkavian Primogen

L.C. Blackwell

Keeper of Fort Blanket

Deleted member 42

L.C. Blackwell

Keeper of Fort Blanket

Snick

DavidZahir

Malkavian Primogen

Lil

Deleted member 42

mirandashell

Deleted member 42

steamforged

Forging ever westward

Lil

L.C. Blackwell

Keeper of Fort Blanket

Priene

Out to lunch

DavidZahir

Malkavian Primogen

Deleted member 42