People passing off your work as their own...

Magna · Dec 24, 2005

Has this ever happened to anyone? I was sent a message on another online writers group informing me that they had found a piece of my work posted elsewhere under a different name.

I clicked the link they sent me, and to my horror, it was one of my old short stories, except the culprit had changed the names of the main characters!

I have now emailed this person requesting they remove the stolen piece from the website. I guess this is the main drawback of exhibiting your work on the internet.

Jamesaritchie · Dec 24, 2005

Magna said:
Has this ever happened to anyone? I was sent a message on another online writers group informing me that they had found a piece of my work posted elsewhere under a different name.

I clicked the link they sent me, and to my horror, it was one of my old short stories, except the culprit had changed the names of the main characters!

I have now emailed this person requesting they remove the stolen piece from the website. I guess this is the main drawback of exhibiting your work on the internet.

I almost never post anything online for any reason, but this has still happened to me. You have to go after them or it won't stop, and will only get worse.

Wishweaver · Dec 24, 2005

Magna said:
Has this ever happened to anyone? I was sent a message on another online writers group informing me that they had found a piece of my work posted elsewhere under a different name.

I clicked the link they sent me, and to my horror, it was one of my old short stories, except the culprit had changed the names of the main characters!

I'm afraid so. Now granted, this was a piece a fanfiction, not something I was preparing for publication, but someone took the first chapter I posted on Fan Fiction Net and posted it on Fiction Alley under their own name. What's worse, they published it in toto. Didn't even bother to change my opening notes and comments.

Readers quickly caught it and notified me, for which I'm grateful. Long story stort, Fiction Alley was contacted, and the matter was quickly taken care of, but I still couldn't believe the nerve of the person. Yes, it was "just" fan fiction, but I'd worked very hard all the same. To say I was unimpressed would be a gross understatement.

Sorry to hear that happened to you. The feeling of being "robbed" or "cheated" must be much worse with something totally your own.

veinglory · Dec 25, 2005

things posted online are to some extent 'released to the wild'. I have had a few people post my online poems attrivuted to me, which i have no problem with. if they claim it as their own work I drop them, and if necessary their webhost, a note.

Jamesaritchie · Dec 25, 2005

Online

veinglory said:
things posted online are to some extent 'released to the wild'. I have had a few people post my online poems attrivuted to me, which i have no problem with. if they claim it as their own work I drop them, and if necessary their webhost, a note.

Things posted online aren't released to the wild in any way. They still have full copyright protection, and if you let people post your material, whether it's attributed to you or not, it still adds to the problem. Theft is theft, even if they leave your name on it.

veinglory · Dec 25, 2005

That's one way of looking at it, but not mine.

Magna · Dec 26, 2005

Fortunately, the matter has now been resolved and the plagurised piece has been removed. When I asked for an explaination, the culprit claimed they did not intend any offence, they just wanted to re-write my story...I would call slightly changing the protagonist's name and nothing else re-writing!

michael78651 · Aug 3, 2006

Veinglory, if you mowed someone's yard, and then someone else got paid for doing the work, would you mind? If I write a story and then someone else takes it and claims it as their's, that is stealing. I did the work, and I'm entitled to any compensation that may come from it.

arrowqueen · Aug 4, 2006

A friend had one of her stories 'lifted' from a UK mag. and sold to an Australian one. She got it sorted out eventually, but the Australian magazine didn't buy anything from her for ages - as if she'd been the one at fault.

gromhard · Aug 4, 2006

Why do people do it?
Money? The risk and effort involved seem far too great for it to be cost or time effective I'd think. I mean if easy money is your thing then there are a billion other, easier, more lucrative ways to get it if breaking the law is not a problem to you.
Do they just want attention? To see their name in some magazine? I live in dread FEAR that one day I'll realize that one of my short stories wasn't originally my idea but an idea I'd seen on television or in a movie years before. I can't imagine WANTING to plagerize.
What's wrong with these people?
-Grom
(and thanks for the warning, I had no idea plagerism was still a reasonable threat. Now I know to keep my work off the internet.)

Silver King · Aug 4, 2006

michael78651 said:
Veinglory, if you mowed someone's yard, and then someone else got paid for doing the work, would you mind?

The only lawns Vein mows are of the body kind. So yeah, she'd mind all right, but only if she wasn't asked to help with the cutting.

And gromhard, really, don't lose any sleep over your intellectual property. Believe me, no one, and I mean NO ONE, wants to pass your work off as their own. Name me one person, even a fictional character, who does...

Jesstears2u · Aug 7, 2006

veinglory said:
things posted online are to some extent 'released to the wild'. I have had a few people post my online poems attrivuted to me, which i have no problem with. if they claim it as their own work I drop them, and if necessary their webhost, a note.

this is why you should copyright things before posting them anywhere.

Kate Thornton · Aug 7, 2006

No - intellectual property online is not "released to the wild" - I retain my copyright.

I have had a story lifted from a web-based magazine and re-posted under someone else's name.

It is theft, and I was angry.

I wrote to the perpetrator, also to the forum host and the web host of the offending party and had the work removed and an apology posted. I also let the perp know that I take plagiarism very seriously and have a hungry attorney (I do really.) If they had been less cooperative than they were, I would have prosecuted.

I periodically do a search engine sweep of some of my online stories, poems, etc. looking for stolen stuff.

In most instances, I have been paid for rights to my work - editors are always interested if someone else is getting the stuff for free. In all cases I retain my copyright and I may wish to exercise other rights to the materials, so I don't appreciate theft.

I think theives should be prosecuted - no matter whose material they steal.

JimmyB27 · Aug 8, 2006

Jesstears2u said:
this is why you should copyright things before posting them anywhere.

You copyright a work the moment you set pen to paper, or keys to keyboard. You can register your copyright, but you automatically own the copyright to anything you write.

Mac H. · Aug 8, 2006

I was wondering if people who put their stories on their websites shouldn't follow the leads of hotels in protecting their properties.

In the old days, hotels used to have a big problem with customers stealing towels. The main problem for the hotel was that they wanted to accuse the customer of theft, then the police would get involved, there are court cases, you'll need to get a warrant to search the person's home to prove the theft - in reality none of that is ever going to happen.

So the major hotels started a new approach - they simply made their towels available for sale at a nicely inflated price. If you want a Hilton towel, you can just buy one.

The beauty of this approach is that it is no longer a criminal event if you steal a towel - the hotel simply adds it to your bill like anything in the mini-bar. It changed a major 'criminal' case to a simple dispute over billing. If it ever went to court, they don't have to prove you are a thief, and a get search warrants. (Not that it would go to court)

If, for example, Veinglory has a little mention on her site that the stories are available to be shown on other people's sites for a fee of, say, $20 per day, then she doesn't need to accuse anyone of being a thief.

She simply sends them a bill. If they don't pay it, it is simply a small courts claim rather than an issue of theft.

Note that I have NO relevant legal experience here - it is just a thought.

I'd be curious to know if it works, though.

Mac.
(PS: Yes, I realise that there would be no contract in force between yourself and the thieving website, but without a contract, surely a court would rely on quantum meritus to determine the value, which a price-list would certainly be a good starting point.

BTW - 'Quantum meritus' is just jargon for 'fair price'. Basically, if you call an plumber to fix a leak, and he fixes it and presents you with a bill, you can't get out of the bill by pointing out that you didn't have a contract with them before hand - just the fact you CALLED a professional to help means that there is an implied contract that you will pay them 'a fair amount'. After you view a quote (or whatever) then the implied contract changes from 'fair amount' to 'amount on the quote' etc.

I know the situations aren't entirely analogous, but I'm curious all the same.)

(PPS: I am not a lawyer. I would iterate it again, but, to be frank, anyone who takes my rambling questions as legal advice is pretty well stupid enough to be parted from their money soon anyway...)

michael78651 · Aug 25, 2006

Mac H. said:
She simply sends them a bill. If they don't pay it, it is simply a small courts claim rather than an issue of theft.

If someone takes something that belongs to someone else and they don't pay for it, that is stealing. And you're not going to file a case in small claims court. If you live in New York, and the thief lives in California, how do you think you're going to get the thief to appear in court in New York? The thief will laugh at you all the way from California while you sit in a chair in the New York court waiting for the thief to show up, and you'll be out the filing fees and court costs and never collect a penny.

Kristen King · Aug 28, 2006

Something that strikes me as an interesting angle in this situation is that, nine times out of ten, fanfic is copyright infringement. If it's a parody or something otherwise covered by fair use, you're probably okay, but if it's a straight derivative work based on someone else's writing, it's infringement. Most people don't prosecute fanfic writers, but some do. So now there's an issue of infringement on work that is in and of itself infringement. How defensible would that be? I have no idea, but I'd be interested to know if any of you do.

Kristen

MicheleLee · Aug 28, 2006

I don't think I'd bother fighting for fan fiction seeing as technically it is copyright infringment itself. I don't display my work on blogs or websites, not even my fan fiction

for that very reason. You don't have to register a copyright to own it, even the office says it's yours as soon as you write the piece. I'm nervous about ezines. I'm not going to sub to an ezine that doesn't pay. Then it's a credit where I have no proof. I could make a website myself and put my stuff up and claim it's an ezine and print it out and it would be about as legit. So unless it pays something, anything, even a free copy, I don't sub there.

whistlelock · Aug 29, 2006

I think plagerists should be nailed to a wall and be forced to listen to high school break-up poems.

I'd add the adjetive BAD but they all suck, so....

Jamesaritchie · Aug 29, 2006

wild

veinglory said:
That's one way of looking at it, but not mine.

That's a real shame. Every time a writer lets someone get away with something like this it hurts all other writers.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 29, 2006

work

Silver King said:
The only lawns Vein mows are of the body kind. So yeah, she'd mind all right, but only if she wasn't asked to help with the cutting.

And gromhard, really, don't lose any sleep over your intellectual property. Believe me, no one, and I mean NO ONE, wants to pass your work off as their own. Name me one person, even a fictional character, who does...

Online, people do want to pass your work off as their own. I've seen it happen at least a hundred times. The often even change the title so a Google search doesn't catch it. Some even rewrite the first paragraph, or change the name of the characters. It's way the heck too common.

country-writer · Aug 29, 2006

I wrote a poem about two years ago. Posted it on a horse board I frequented. To this day, I am amazed of the places it is turning up. Even on print material. Most of the times it has my name attached to it, if not, I take action. Had someone steal my website last year. The duplicated it completely changed the domain name a smidgeon and proceeded to try and rip my partner and I off! Took me five months to get it eliminated off the net. I finally sent the host company a scan of my lawyers business card. The email was brief:

"Right now you are looking at a copy of my lawyer's business card. If you do not remove the pirated website in 24 hours, you are going to see a whole lot more of this shark I hired and he IS hungry."

3 hours after the email was sent, the website vanished!

Kristen King · Aug 29, 2006

country-writer said:
...Had someone steal my website last year. The duplicated it completely changed the domain name a smidgeon and proceeded to try and rip my partner and I off! Took me five months to get it eliminated off the net. I finally sent the host company a scan of my lawyers business card. The email was brief:

"Right now you are looking at a copy of my lawyer's business card. If you do not remove the pirated website in 24 hours, you are going to see a whole lot more of this shark I hired and he IS hungry."

3 hours after the email was sent, the website vanished!

Good for you for standing up for yourself and not letting it slide. I had to chuckle at your approach. :] Nice work.

Kristen

K1P1 · Aug 30, 2006

Pirating copyrighted material is happening constantly in my circles (knitting patterns). There's even a Yahoo group that is completely focused on scanning copyrighted patterns and sharing them with the other members. The knitting designers group has been trying to get them shut down and to educate the members.

People constantly take free knitting patterns posted on the internet and copy them, complete with pictures and formatting, to use on their own web sites (why they don't just include a link to the original, I can't imagine).

A business in Australia that should have known better was using one of my images of knitted fabric and needles as the background for their entire site. When I brought this to their attention, they said that their web developer had found it through Google so it was OK to use it (NOT!). I suggested that if they sold my knitting patterns in Australia, or if they credited me with a link back to my web site, I'd be happy to let them use the image without charge. They changed their background.

Much the worst, though, is that editors at publishing companies tell me there are people scanning their books (still in print and easily available), binding them, and selling them.

A few years ago, a freelance knitting teacher discovered that another teacher who had taken one of her classes had simply copied her course materials and was using them in her own business (knitting cruises) without permission or attribution. This is a small enough economic sector that everyone knows everyone else (at least by name, if not personally). She must have known she'd get caught, but apparently didn't realize there was any problem with what she'd done.

Many knitting store owners simply copy copyrighted patterns for their customers. One of the ongoing discussions among knitting designers and self-publishers (there are a lot of them) is how to make your patterns difficult or impossible to copy while still making them legible.

This is such a big problem that the Craft Yarn Council of America (an industry group) has copyright posters and pamphlets and is doing its best to educate both the retailers and the consumers.

<deep breath>

I'll get off my hobby horse now...

Edit: I meant to apologize in the first place for the fact that this isn't specifically about fiction, but it's still applicable. People are copying and putting together little anthologies of fiction from various sources all the time.

Kate Thornton · Aug 30, 2006

Thank you, Maggie - theft is theft.

I think we have a whole segment of computer literate people who think if it's on the 'net, it's not only free, it is fair game and in the public domain.

These people have no concept of intellectual property and the rights thereof. I am sorry your property has been stolen - I really liked it that you approached the website folks. I think your offer of exchange was a very generous one!

People passing off your work as their own...

Magna

Jamesaritchie

Wishweaver

veinglory

volitare nequeo

Jamesaritchie

veinglory

volitare nequeo

Magna

michael78651

arrowqueen

RIP, our sarky besom

gromhard

Silver King

Megalops Erectus

Jesstears2u

Kate Thornton

Still Happy to be Here. Or Anywhere

JimmyB27

Hoopy frood

Mac H.

Board Visitor

michael78651

Kristen King

MicheleLee

whistlelock

Whiskey Rebel

Jamesaritchie

Jamesaritchie

country-writer

Kristen King

K1P1

Procrastination is its own reward

Kate Thornton

Still Happy to be Here. Or Anywhere