Is this not scary?

Maxinquaye

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http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...rum-tells-liberals-and-non-christians-get-out

Listen to the speech, look at the audience. He's championing autocratic theocracy where everyone that does not believe as him should 'get out' or be silenced.

And Rick Santorum is right there, and doesn't disagree.

In these people's minds, it's not about gays or moslems or other scary people. It's about ideas, about values, and the values they don't like does not have a place in their land.

Democracy? Freedom of speech? Pffaaa. You didn't need freedom of speech when you agreed with Josef Stalin. You don't need freedom of speech when you agree with these people.
 

Shadow Dragon

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This doesn't surprise me. Not about Rick Santorum or about the religious right as a whole. They tend to ignore the idea of freedom of speech or religion, unless it's them that's using it.
 

missesdash

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I have a really bad time not labeling every single one of them as horrible human beings? I know the generalization isn't fair, but he's that bad.
 

Zoombie

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You know what pisses me off?

They're wrong. They are wrong and provably wrong. A high water lifts all boats, and freedom for all means freedom for ALL. This brings more ideas, more innovations, more ideas, more technologies, more art to the table. Freedom is, in every sense of the word, an inherently GOOD thing, even when people use it to say horrible horrible things.

But, if I believe that, then that means I can't do a damn thing other than say I disagree with them.

But THEY are perfectly, ideologically allowed to use violence and political force against me.

Assholes.
 

muravyets

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*watching the video*

I though the God of Christians had no name. What's all this "His name is Jesus" idolatry?

*considers channeling some good old fashioned American Puritans*

ETA: Anyhoo... yeah. Want to know who we're dealing with when we deal with Santorum? That's his base, right there.
 

Nymtoc

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Are you sure that's not a vid from Saturday Night Live? :evil
 

Maxinquaye

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They're wrong. They are wrong and provably wrong. A high water lifts all boats, and freedom for all means freedom for ALL. This brings more ideas, more innovations, more ideas, more technologies, more art to the table. Freedom is, in every sense of the word, an inherently GOOD thing, even when people use it to say horrible horrible things.

I agree, but to some this means the wrong ideas, the wrong innovations, the wrong technologies, and the wrong art, then the threshold to ban what's wrong is so much lower.

Look at Tipper Gore's explicit lyrics thing. It's become a badge for kids to get the parental advisory-albums rather than the "lame" ones. With youtube, file sharing, iTunes, and what-not the explicit songs are the ones that get distributed. It has become a marker for quality.

Now, introduce people that have no compunction to criminalise.

You already have, allegedly, four times more people in jail than the police state China (with its 1bn people). Time to start building new jails.
 

Plot Device

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Prior to Jerry Falwall, there was no such thing in America as "the religious right." The only unified voting block of a religious bent to be found in this nation was embodied by American Roman Catholics. Even though the non-Catholic portion of the American population of Christians (sometimes generically called "Protestants") outnumbered the Catholic portion, they were a disjointed group (a disjointed majority) who didn't get along with each other and could barely stand to be in the same room as each other. Baptists and Methodists were unable to look past doctrinal differences, so they almost never assembled jointly and certainly never met for political purposes. Henry Kissinger even made several suggestions to President Nixon (including a two-child policy forf population control) but fears of losing the Catholic vote often negated those ideas. No worries at all about the Protestant vote because no such vote existed at the time.

Jerry Falwell made the difference. And a new voting block was formed.

Meanwhile, all through the 1980's, a very important --and I think dangerous-- trend started to arise in the newer and hipper churches (especially the new "mega-churhces" that began popping up). It was called the "sheperding movement," and it eventually paved the way for the even more dangerous "submission to authority movement."

Sheperding churches took the positoin that a new convert needed INTENSIVE guidance in his first year of indoctrination, and so those churches would DEMAND strict adherence to such guidance. That movement was criticized for fostering a lack of free-thinking and making it difficult for church members to make any decisions without having to call a church elder. Sheperding isn't very common today.

But then the submission to authority churches which came soon after did something slightly similar, but more pervasive. They restuctured the way a church self-governs. Specifically, under the submission to authority model, there was no such thing as a vote -- a complete departure from the true roots of American Protestantism.

The early Puritan churches always had church meetings where all church members could vote. So did Congregational churches. So did Baptist churches. The idea of a congregation voting as seen in the early Puritan churches of the 1600's became the model for the voting which still happens in a typical New England Town Meeting here in the 21st century. And the utter normalness of the practice of everyone getting a vote made it easy for the Framers of the Constitution to structure the new nation of the USA to be one whose cornerstone was the public ballot box-- the majory of Americnas were already accustomed to being voters because of church and because of town meetings. MOST churches all through American church histry have always had a vote. But then the "submission to authority movement" in the 1980's changed all that.

Churches that have structured themselves in this model have no vote at all. The pastors make all the decisions and merely announce them from the pulpit. Anyone who doesn't like it is welcome to find another church.

This model of church governance works well in a very large church where there are multiple pastors. It's easier to make a large church run smoothly when the whole messy business of voting gets eliminated, and the pastors are given carte blanc to make decisions swiftly with no objections. And these very large and very smooth running churches are extremely attractive to young married couples with children who like all of the extra perks large church can offer, especially childcare and married couples counseling. So the tradeoff of losing the original democratic model that has been the hallmark of Protestant churches for over 400 years now, and exchanging it for babysitting services was not only not seen as an actual loss, the whole concept was accepted as the correct Biblical model of New Testament church leadsership. The American version of church governance with that whole voting business was dismissed as not being scriptural. The only time any of the pastors can be questioned is if one or more of them is clearly living in sin. Other than that, the team of pastors are God's chosen instrument for leading that church, and they are to be respected and submitted to. Discipline for dissent can range from anything to an on-the-carpet tongue lashing to being ordered to step down from a current position in the church to being asked to leave and even to being publically shunned.

I personally attended such a church back in the 1990's. And at first I was disturbed to learn that there was no such thing as a vote. But I stayed, and I got over my discomfort and defended my choice to my friedsn who went to more traditional churches where a vote was normal.

Here we are, over a generation later, and the submission to authority movement is still going strong. MOST mega-churches of today are the kind that do not have a vote. (The mega-churches that still hang onto voting ususally split after a while and sometimes never recover from the split. But thuse submission to authority churches almost never suffer splits and just keep getting bigger.)

The notion that any flavor of dictates can be handed down by the pastors and NOT questioned is a normal notion and embraced as the true model of Biblical Christianity. And I now fear that the flourishing of this model of how to structure church governance has resulted in spillover into people's perceptions of how to structure local, state and national governance.

I fear an entire generation of the religious right now believes that it's okay for one's legislators to make whatever demands they want. And we are to accept what they say without question.


Hand down a funky new piece of legislation saying no one can sing the National Anthem with undo embelishment or synchopation? No problem. Our leaders know what they are doing and are being led by God. We merely need to check the Bible (not the Constitution) if we ever want to make sure their actions and decisions are acceptable. (Which is why Bill Clinton will NEVER be forgiven for Monica Lewinski --he did that while he was in office, so he was living in overt sin while conducting that office, thus he needed to be removed from office.)
 

Don

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I've said it before and I'll say it again. We better start listening to Jerry Ford.
Gerald R. Ford said:
A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.
Envision indefinite detention, waterboarding, and the legal authority to secretly assassinate American citizens without trial in THAT man's hands... and be very afraid.
 

William Haskins

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in other news, santorum has lost another primary, has fallen even further behind in the delegate count, and will not be the nominee, much less president.
 

Magdalen

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in other news, santorum has lost another primary, has fallen even further behind in the delegate count, and will not be the nominee, much less president.

Yeah, he may be down, but he's not out quite yet. I hear he's got some dirt on the Pope & is bucking for a cardinalship (?) at the Vatican!!
 

Chrissy

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After watching that, I can't decide whether I need to vomit or make a stiff drink. Maybe both. It's not even 8:00 a.m., but, desperate times...

And thanks Max, for reminding me why my childhood sucked so bad. ;)
 

rwam

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I think I've seen this one before. Isn't the next episode the one where he says, "Yeah, he's my pastor and I've gone to his church for twenty years, but I disagree with everything he says"?
 

Romantic Heretic

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People like this is why I have been saying for years that when people such as Mr. Terry and Mr. Santorum talk about freedom they're really talking about power. Power for themselves and others like them.

Some one might bring up the argument that 'Freedom is power.' They can be mistaken for one another and there is some overlap but there is one essential difference between the two.

Power always regards other people's power as a danger to itself. Freedom never regards other people's freedom as a danger.

That's why Terry and Santorum get so exercised about gays, liberals etc. In their minds giving such people power means a threat to their power.
 

robeiae

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I've said it before and I'll say it again. We better start listening to Jerry Ford.

Envision indefinite detention, waterboarding, and the legal authority to secretly assassinate American citizens without trial in THAT man's hands... and be very afraid.

Paul Harvey, Don. Paul Harvey.
 

robeiae

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in other news, santorum has lost another primary, has fallen even further behind in the delegate count, and will not be the nominee, much less president.

Perhaps he'll run as an independent.



But you know, it pisses me off, the twits on the right that talked Santorum into thinking he had--and still has--a real shot here.

The circus is mostly the result of his staying in. And for what? Gingrich is still in because he's a spiteful little prick. Paul is still in because he has a message, a point. Santorum? Nothing.
 

Vince524

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Perhaps he'll run as an independent.



But you know, it pisses me off, the twits on the right that talked Santorum into thinking he had--and still has--a real shot here.

The circus is mostly the result of his staying in. And for what? Gingrich is still in because he's a spiteful little prick. Paul is still in because he has a message, a point. Santorum? Nothing.

Santorum also has a point. A big one.

It's just on top of his head.
 

Maxinquaye

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It's been said that a worst case example of democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what should be for dinner.

And in every other case it's about a wolf owning the flock of sheep. He just decide when to get the butcher-gun.

Or as Winston put ut: Democracy is the worst for of government, except for all the others.