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Spy_on_the_Inside
03-19-2012, 06:29 AM
I am working on creating a cult for a new story of mine, but I'm looking for different cults to study in order to help with this. I already have a list of cults I've been looking at, but I was hoping people might be able to point me in the direction of some more obscure groups to study.

Here are some of the ones I have already started researching.


The Kirkland Cult
The Branch Davidians
The People'sTemple
Strong City Cult
Soloar Temple
The Children of God

As you can see, the list isn't very long. I've look up Google and OCRT, but I know there must be more groups than what I can find in just a quick Google search. What I am especially hoping to find is groups that have an emphisis is communeal living and isolating from the rest of the world.

Does anyone have any groups I can look into?

Karen Junker
03-19-2012, 06:38 AM
Seattle had a group called the Love Family for many years -- I've known people who were members. One of the leaders was the son of a famous TV personality whose name escapes me at the moment...

AKyber36
03-19-2012, 07:08 AM
If international cults help, I just thought of Japan's Aum Shinrikyo (the one guilty of the sarin gas attacks).

Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aum_Shinrikyo

They seem to share common traits with the other cults you've mentioned, including isolation, stockpiling of weapons, and very rigid groupthink and control.

DrZoidberg
03-19-2012, 03:51 PM
"Golden Dawn" is the grand daddy of them all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn

Aleister Crowley broke off and founded "Ordo Templi Orientis". That's a cult if there ever was one.

And there's "Illuminates of Thanateros" a more modern version.

Order of the Golden and Rosy Cross, an old masonic one. The most famous is probably Adam Weishautpt's "Illuminati".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati

You might want to check up on the "Righteous Harmony Society". Fits your bill for a cult. But ended up having millions of followers in China and started a chain of events that eventually led to the fall of the Chinese imperial dynasty. It is called the Boxer rebellion today. It came to heavily influence Chinese communism. It's very cultish IMHO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Righteous_Harmony_Society

You've got Discordianism. The worship of chaos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism

I love crazy cults. I love crazy conspiracy theories about cults too. Good material for stories.

GeorgeK
03-19-2012, 04:01 PM
Most of the cults that fly below the radar do not self identify as either a cult or a religion. They don't put anything in writing. They go to church, temple, mosque etc and pretend to be part of the local predominant scene. When they get home, their patriarch (usually) is the conduit to their god and fills their heads with other stuff on top of the local religion. Nobody the children attempt to date is ever good enough unless that person is easily swayed by the cult leader. Neighbors tend to describe them as a "close knit family." Just like a cult though, the only way anyone leaves is by running away and often changing their name.

epublishabook
03-19-2012, 04:25 PM
My personal favorite is Demeter Cult
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demeter

For some reason, it is rather popular in Belgian comic books for adults (not porn, but not aimed at children).

It does have echoes in the Lancelot myths as well

Snick
03-19-2012, 08:56 PM
What was the cult that Timothy McVey was associated with?

Xelebes
03-19-2012, 09:32 PM
Synanon - Founded by Chuck E Dederich as a drug treatment centre, it quickly (and by quickly, I mean quickly) devolved into a cult. Got some funding from MKULTRA and a few experiments were run there. More closely aligned to what you are asking for as there was considerable isolation of youth despite parent's wishes, as well as adults who were told that they could not leave voluntarily.

CEDU - Chuck E Dederich University. Founded by a follower of Chuck E Dederich, CEDU is meant to more resemble a school. It closed in 2005 and its schools were bought by one conglomerate, which was then bought by Bain Capital (re: Mitt Romney.)

WWASP - Worldwide Association of Specialty Programs. Founded by the Lichfield brothers (one of them, Robert, was the head of finance for Romney's 2008 campaign.) Known for whisking children away from programs without parent's consent and stringing the parents along to extract money from them. Maybe more just private prison/concentration camp than a communal living.

benbradley
03-19-2012, 10:15 PM
There's this site, I don't know why they took it down (and then linked to the archive.org copy - maybe they didn't want to keep paying for hosting):
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/
The introduction and main page (in the archive site - these links may load slowly) are here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20060907005952/http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/relmove/
This is the list of groups they've studied, which looks pretty comprehensive, and was close to up to date about 10 years ago when the site was active. Scroll down through here and read the names - many are sure to be familiar to you:
http://web.archive.org/web/20060902232910/http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/profiles/listalpha.htm
This site really discusses everything, from major religious groups to small fringe groups, without saying whether such a group is a "cult." That's a derogatory word that virtually no group would use for itself, though from reading some of the writings on that site, a century ago the word had no more negative connotation than sect.

The list also includes multi-level marketing groups, both generally and a few specific ones. The list calls them para-religious groups abd direct sales organizartion, but informally I'd call them "business cults" as opposed to religious cults. Amway, for example, would be a business cult because of the way it operates and the beliefs it promotes - specifically regarding how to get rich - even though the founder was a strong Christian and there may be some Christian theology in the founder's and group's writings).

I read through a lot of that site about ten years ago, and have read quite a few books on cults. Be aware that what gets called a cult and why can vary quite a bit between different authors, as the word in its derogatory definition quite nebulous. Definitions have been derived from the thought that "I know it when I see it. Some might say "such and such can't be a cult because it doesn't have a living leader (I've seen an "expert on destructive cults" use this definition online), but that' not necessarily so. Perhaps the best way to decide is to make a list of the specific characteristics of groups that are widely known to be destructive and that many agree are "cults" and then see how many of these characteristics apply to a group in question. The more characteristics that apply, the more easily it is to label it a cult.

One more thing, this 12-minute film is a hoot. It doesn't name names, but it describes a LOT of common techniques. But watch out, that music is gonna hypnotize you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E

ironmikezero
03-19-2012, 11:37 PM
Ben, the film... GAH!

The music... it... won't... stop... ye gods!

Make... it... stop!

You were right!

Disturbing is an understatement.

Charles Farley
03-19-2012, 11:42 PM
This guy was one of my favourites and might be along the lines you are talking about . .

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=the%20branch%20davidians%20of%20waco&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CEkQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rickross.com%2Fgroups%2Fwaco. html&ei=zotnT8iBNIXa0QGsxKS0CA&usg=AFQjCNG-5Ly0omw09tXIn6_kIyb7pPPAtA

bethanythemartian
03-20-2012, 05:52 AM
Culthlep (http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1) might be a good resource for you, and there are a lot of modern resources for helping people who might be locked in a cult. When you google, try looking for resources for getting out of a cult. That may bring up new resources.

Edit: could I possibly use "resources" a few more times? Jeez.

benbradley
03-20-2012, 06:18 AM
Culthlep (http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1) might be a good resource for you, and there are a lot of modern resources for helping people who might be locked in a cult. When you google, try looking for resources for getting out of a cult. That may bring up new resources.

Edit: could I possibly use "resources" a few more times? Jeez.
Not all such "resources" are good ones, in fact I strongly suggest being very cautious for anyone seeking help this way. People who've been in one "high-demand, coercive group" and leave it often fall into another one, often in an attempt to "recover" from the first.

Here's an example of such a "resource" that may have been helpful at one time (it was founded in response to the Jonestown deaths in hopes of preventing another such incident), but which got sued numerous times and whose name and records (including names and phone numbers of people who had called it seeking information or help) are now owned by one of the groups it was investigating:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_Awareness_Network

This writing is about speaking to a member of a specific group, but it's quite applicable to many or most such groups just by changing some keywords:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/16.htm

Karen Junker
03-20-2012, 06:41 AM
There's this site, I don't know why they took it down (and then linked to the archive.org copy - maybe they didn't want to keep paying for hosting):
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/

I actually wrote two of the articles on that website -- the ones on Wicca and Druids. The site was pioneered by a professor who has since died. It may be that his replacement wasn't as interested in new religious movements.

blacbird
03-20-2012, 07:18 AM
Heaven's Gate (Marshall Applewhite)
Ervil LeBaron (renegade Mormon polygamist serial killer)
Jeffrey Lindgren (renegade Mormon polygamist mass murderer, which is the Kirkland cult you mention, or part of it)
Rajneeshees.
In the 19th Century, the Millerites, in the U.S., and the thuggee, in India.

Some would accuse Opus dei and the Jesuits of being cults.

Oh, and:

Amway.

caw

rugcat
03-20-2012, 07:32 AM
Heaven's Gate (Marshall Applewhite)
The Heaven's Gate people passed through Alta, Utah, where I worked. They worked a short time at a neighboring lodge. They were a bit odd, but seemed to be quite pleasant people. Never dreamed what it would come to,

bethanythemartian
03-20-2012, 11:06 AM
Not all such "resources" are good ones, in fact I strongly suggest being very cautious for anyone seeking help this way. People who've been in one "high-demand, coercive group" and leave it often fall into another one, often in an attempt to "recover" from the first.

Here's an example of such a "resource" that may have been helpful at one time (it was founded in response to the Jonestown deaths in hopes of preventing another such incident), but which got sued numerous times and whose name and records (including names and phone numbers of people who had called it seeking information or help) are now owned by one of the groups it was investigating:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_Awareness_Network

This writing is about speaking to a member of a specific group, but it's quite applicable to many or most such groups just by changing some keywords:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/16.htm

Since the OP is trying to find out information about cults in general, either type of resource could prove useful. However, this is a good point.

DrZoidberg
03-20-2012, 12:55 PM
And then there's the Hindu/hippie variants.

There's the Sri Chinmoy cult.

http://www.srichinmoy.org/

A close friend of mine grew up in the cult and ended up going on a crusade against him. He uncovered a mess of sexual misconduct from Sri Chinmoy and found that the cult even had their own hitmen of sorts. Really weird. My friends crusade and website is over and gone today. But here's some surviving scraps.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/srichinmoy/srichinmoyvisitor.html

Sai Baba cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sathya_Sai_Baba

He was constantly flooded with accusations of molesting boys.


And then there's Osho.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osho_(Bhagwan_Shree_Rajneesh)

I can't help but like Osho. He made no pretences about that he liked living in large with limos, luxury wine and group sex. How couldn't you like a guy like that? But the fact remains that it's still very much a cult.

BardSkye
03-21-2012, 12:46 AM
Some would accuse Opus dei and the Jesuits of being cults.

Oh, and:

Amway.

caw


And barbershop singers.

jaksen
03-21-2012, 01:08 AM
Shakers.

They banned sex and one of their goals was for them (and all humanity) to die out.

Although a few were still around when I was a child, I think they reached that goal. Far as I know there are no more Shakers, though their furniture remains a favorite with interior decorators looking for simplistic design.

Edit add: There is a community in ME with three (female) members. I would assume they are all elderly.

DrZoidberg
03-21-2012, 11:44 AM
Shakers.

They banned sex and one of their goals was for them (and all humanity) to die out.

Although a few were still around when I was a child, I think they reached that goal. Far as I know there are no more Shakers, though their furniture remains a favorite with interior decorators looking for simplistic design.

Edit add: There is a community in ME with three (female) members. I would assume they are all elderly.

That's a description of early Christianity as well. Probably the kind of Christianity at the time of the, alleged, life of Jesus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thecla

She was one of the three most venerated saints, Mary and Jesus topping her. She's the saint of abstinence. Early Christians believed that women could be promoted to the rank of men if they remained virgins their whole life. Life long abstinence was the ideal for both men and women. It caught on and became a movement, which the Roman government saw as a threat to the economy and army. So they repressed it until it vanished. Obviously a movement like this is likely to die out all on it's own.

Early Christian gender theory rested on the theories of Galen. Man is perfect, and woman is the result of some sort of sickness or trauma during pregnancy. So they're inherently flawed. It's not in the Bible, but if one is familiar with Galen and then read it, it's pretty obvious it's implied.

That was a lot of digressions. When I came across Thecla and her position in the early church I was fascinated as to why Thecla had been kicked out as a saint. I ended up researching it and nothing else for a week.

I also came across the apokalypses during this research. It's connected to the abstinence ideal. Since the world was about to end it really didn't matter if one had babies. So sex had no place in the soon-to-end Christian world. Loads of apokalypses were written in the early period. The reason the apokalypse of Jon was included in the Christian canon (ie Book of Revelation) was because it'd already come true. It's all about Nero and his fall. We don't even need to guess what the allegories meant. They were well defined and well known back then. And we know what it all means today.

So it's funny about all these Evangelicals today trying to figure out alternative interpretations for the Book of Revelation. We really don't need to guess.

BillPatt
03-21-2012, 10:26 PM
Tom of Sweden,
Come on, man, why stir up trouble?


...at the time of the, alleged, life of Jesus.

Billions of people believe that the man existed. You may not. You might be passionate in your disbelief. You may think a lot of negative things about Christians.

But there's such a thing as tact, tolerance, gentlemanliness. This site is about writing. This section is about Story Research, not P&CE. We're trying to help writers, not insult whatever belief systems they may hold.

Xelebes
03-21-2012, 11:18 PM
Tom of Sweden,
Come on, man, why stir up trouble?



Billions of people believe that the man existed. You may not. You might be passionate in your disbelief. You may think a lot of negative things about Christians.

But there's such a thing as tact, tolerance, gentlemanliness. This site is about writing. This section is about Story Research, not P&CE. We're trying to help writers, not insult whatever belief systems they may hold.

He might be refering to something else like the hypothesised dates of his birth and death, which is more likely the case than saying that Jesus is unlikely to have existed.

RemusShepherd
03-21-2012, 11:54 PM
Just today, I saw this fascinating story about Aum Shinrikyo, the cult that perpetrated the poison gas attacks in the Tokyo subway. While they're not obscure -- certainly not now, anyway -- the document goes into intricate details about how the cult's mindset changed from religious enlightenment to wackadoodle apocalyptic terrorism.

http://www.scribd.com/Silendo/d/61157317-Aum-Shinrikyo-Insights-Into-How-Terrorists-Develop-Biological-and-Chemical-Weapons

BillPatt
03-21-2012, 11:55 PM
He might be refering to something else like the hypothesised dates of his birth and death, which is more likely the case than saying that Jesus is unlikely to have existed.

I would agree with you, had I not seen a similar provocation in another one of his posts, which I don't have time to look up at the moment.

wampuscat
03-22-2012, 03:17 AM
I don't know about obscure, but I enjoyed Jon Krakauer's "Under the Banner of Heaven," which talks about Fundamentalist Mormon groups.

Also, may not fit the definition of "cult," but the discussion of the mindsets of some of the groups that splintered from the main Mormon church were interesting.

Cath
03-22-2012, 04:53 AM
I would agree with you, had I not seen a similar provocation in another one of his posts, which I don't have time to look up at the moment.

The very best thing you can do when you see a post that's offensive is to report the post (See the little red triangle under the avatar).

It means that me or another mod will take a close look and see if the post is over the line. Here I think you just need to accept that your view differs.

Let's not make this about religious beliefs, or who is right or wrong, k?

DrZoidberg
03-22-2012, 08:20 AM
Tom of Sweden,
Come on, man, why stir up trouble?



Billions of people believe that the man existed. You may not. You might be passionate in your disbelief. You may think a lot of negative things about Christians.

But there's such a thing as tact, tolerance, gentlemanliness. This site is about writing. This section is about Story Research, not P&CE. We're trying to help writers, not insult whatever belief systems they may hold.

What? I personally believe Jesus existed. But it would be wrong (even offensive) to state that as fact in a research forum. I can back up everything I wrote. That makes it, by definition, non-offensive. I also think my post fits the OP pretty well because there's a lot in Christianity, especially early Christianity, that fits the bill. What you're hinting at is that we should refrain from learning about popular religions because we might offend someone. Well, excuse me, but if there's one thing I'm passionate about it's learning the truth about the past and I don't appreciate your attempts to controll what facts are presented by trying to shame me. You and me have very different concepts of how to show respect.

I'd also argue that anybody who took offense from my post might ask themselves if they're ready to venture into a research forum where religion is discussed. I apreciate that some people hold certain ideas that make them very sensitive when those ideas are challenged. But that's not an argument for letting those people get away with murder.

Every post in this thread could be argued, on the same grounds, to be offensive to it's followers.

BillPatt
03-22-2012, 01:12 PM
The very best thing you can do when you see a post that's offensive is to report the post (See the little red triangle under the avatar).

{...}
Let's not make this about religious beliefs, or who is right or wrong, k?

No problem, Cath. I will do so in the future.

Cath
03-22-2012, 01:29 PM
DrZoidberg, I said drop it already. Now drop it.

BillPatt
03-22-2012, 01:44 PM
Reply removed by author. I did not see the 'drop it' request from the mod before posting.

DrZoidberg
03-23-2012, 09:51 AM
DrZoidberg, I said drop it already. Now drop it.

I missed it to.

Old Hack
03-23-2012, 11:27 AM
And then there's Osho.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osho_(Bhagwan_Shree_Rajneesh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osho_%28Bhagwan_Shree_Rajneesh))



Years and years ago I worked for Labyrinth Publishing, a book packaging company owned and run by people who were members of Osho's cult.

It was quite extraordinary.

blacbird
03-23-2012, 11:58 AM
This may be a bit of a digression, but it occurs to me that it might be useful to define the characteristics of a "cult". Mine would include:

A charismatic leader who demands blind obedience (Jim Jones, David Koresh, Charles Manson, Ervil LeBaron, Rulon Jeffs and his oddly uncharismatic son, Warren, Marshall Applewhite).

Surrender of control of personal decision and assets.

Secrecy. Elimination or great restriction of communication with "outside" (Jon Krakauer recounts how the FLDS group led by Warren Jeffs are forbidden from watching TV or reading anything other than FLDS literature).

Fear of, or embracing of, an apocalyptic end to everything. This may not be a characteristic of every cult, but many which have made news have this as part of their ethos: Jim Jones, David Koresh, Marshall Applewhite, among others.

Physical isolation. The building of insulated "compounds" seems to be a feature of many such groups. It dovetails with the intellectual isolation.

Hypnotic reinforcement of doctrine, via continuous heavy-duty indoctrination.

In the most extreme groups, a willingness to kill to promote their superiority and control: Jones, Koresh, Jeffrey Lindgren, Ervil LeBaron, Aum Shinrikyu, Charles Manson.

In some, an equal willingness to die, and the satisfaction from the leader to see the followers embrace self-sacrifice (Jones, Koresh, Applewhite).

These characteristics are disturbingly similar to those ascribed to leaders of several major religious movements in human history, which have grown so large they are not considered "cults", and which all bristle at mention of the similarity.

caw

BardSkye
03-23-2012, 04:42 PM
Surrender of control of personal decision and assets.

caw

And in many cases, use of the cult member as a money-generating cog in the machine (begging at airports, selling crafts, etc.).

Does anyone know if any cults have used prostitution or other organized-crime type schemes to further their "cause"?

Spy_on_the_Inside
03-23-2012, 04:49 PM
In my studying, I've found in a lot of groups money is only a secondary factor. But that nearly all cult leaders meet at least 7 of the characteristics for Nacissistic Personality Disorder, and that makes sense. What greater dream for a narcissist than to become God?

BillPatt
03-23-2012, 04:57 PM
These characteristics are disturbingly similar to those ascribed to leaders of several major religious movements in human history, which have grown so large they are not considered "cults", and which all bristle at mention of the similarity.


There's an interesting point in the growth of a cult to become a mainstream religion. At some point they give up many of the characteristics that you mention. Some are inevitable: the charismatic leader dies, for example. Others are more of an embrace of the peaceful side of the original leader's philosophy--crusades become evangelical rather than military operations.

It is interesting that most mainstream religions today could be described as cultish at their inception.

Xelebes
03-23-2012, 06:44 PM
This may be a bit of a digression, but it occurs to me that it might be useful to define the characteristics of a "cult". Mine would include:

Mine would be: does the leader command coercion of the individual by violence and isolation through his followers?

If there lacks violence and isolation, then it is a classic cult likely to grow into a formal religion. If not, then it is a destructive cult that will likely devolve into bitter memories.

benbradley
03-23-2012, 10:18 PM
And in many cases, use of the cult member as a money-generating cog in the machine (begging at airports, selling crafts, etc.).

Does anyone know if any cults have used prostitution or other organized-crime type schemes to further their "cause"?
I don't recall any, unless one considers an organized crime group/mob to be a cult, though depending on one's definition a good argument could probably be made for that.

I do recall reading of a group in which women were only allowed to have sex with with the leader.

Xelebes
03-23-2012, 10:48 PM
I can think of the Thugs of India, who went about robbing and murdering.

Jessianodel
03-24-2012, 12:18 AM
I do recall reading of a group in which women were only allowed to have sex with with the leader.

I remember that one too. I believe it was in Texas? I remember it happening during one of the Bush's presidencies and there was a lot of controversy as to whether the police had a right to raid and attack the camp of they didn't have proof they were stockpiling weapons or something. My memory's a little fuzzy but I do remember talking with my history teacher about it...

Ria13
03-24-2012, 12:25 AM
I am working on creating a cult for a new story of mine, but I'm looking for different cults to study in order to help with this. I already have a list of cults I've been looking at, but I was hoping people might be able to point me in the direction of some more obscure groups to study.
have a gander at some of the ones at RickRoss.com. you will find a list of news stories there. you will find enough to keep you occupied for quite a while.

Ria13
03-24-2012, 12:28 AM
Years and years ago I worked for Labyrinth Publishing, a book packaging company owned and run by people who were members of Osho's cult.

It was quite extraordinary.
I would like to hear about that. I have quite a fascination with cults, not least because a few family members got involved with a particular one.

Ria13
03-24-2012, 12:32 AM
"Golden Dawn" is the grand daddy of them all.
"cult" has two different meanings. it can mean a small religious sect or "cult" can mean a particular controlling group whether religious or psychotherapeutic or multilevel marketing, etc..

Golden Dawn and the other groups fell into the former category. obviously the categories can overlap. based on your post I think you know this so I don't know you blurred the distinctions. (hope that did not sound too rude.)

Ria13
03-24-2012, 12:35 AM
Here's an example of such a "resource" that may have been helpful at one time (it was founded in response to the Jonestown deaths in hopes of preventing another such incident), but which got sued numerous times and whose name and records (including names and phone numbers of people who had called it seeking information or help) are now owned by one of the groups it was investigating:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_Awareness_Network
let's not mince words. it got taken over by the Church of Scientology.

benbradley
03-24-2012, 02:56 AM
I remember that one too. I believe it was in Texas? I remember it happening during one of the Bush's presidencies and there was a lot of controversy as to whether the police had a right to raid and attack the camp of they didn't have proof they were stockpiling weapons or something. My memory's a little fuzzy but I do remember talking with my history teacher about it...
Your description doesn't ring a bell offhand, but I'm thinking this has surely happened in several such groups, after all, when one gets enough personal power over other people, and that idea comes to mind,...

have a gander at some of the ones at RickRoss.com. you will find a list of news stories there. you will find enough to keep you occupied for quite a while.
I've had my differences with Rick Ross (or whoever "rrmoderator" is) over there:
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?8,1016,page=30
I didn't last long there (this was about six years ago, so I don't think this could be regarded as "traveling trouble"). Postings were held for moderation, and my last post wasn't posted. It's far from a free and fair discussion board. Reading through the previous page and the discussion between Orange (of http://orange-papers.org) and rrmoderator is also instructive.

I'm not saying the site doesn't have some good info, but I surely wouldn't take everything on it as gospel (unlike what "The Expert" says, that one should only read what "The Expert" claims as correct info on cults).

jaksen
03-24-2012, 04:20 AM
I remember that one too. I believe it was in Texas? I remember it happening during one of the Bush's presidencies and there was a lot of controversy as to whether the police had a right to raid and attack the camp of they didn't have proof they were stockpiling weapons or something. My memory's a little fuzzy but I do remember talking with my history teacher about it...

David Koresh and the Branch Davidians. 1993. At Waco, Texas.

Jessianodel
03-24-2012, 04:57 AM
David Koresh and the Branch Davidians. 1993. At Waco, Texas.

Yes! Thank you :)

blacbird
03-24-2012, 07:25 AM
I remember that one too. I believe it was in Texas? I remember it happening during one of the Bush's presidencies and there was a lot of controversy as to whether the police had a right to raid and attack the camp of they didn't have proof they were stockpiling weapons or something. My memory's a little fuzzy but I do remember talking with my history teacher about it...

You disremember. First, it happened during Clinton's Presidency. It was outside the town of Waco, which sits just about at the dart-bullseye of the Texas map, between Dallas and Austin. The Davidians were accused, with good evidence, of stockpiling weapons, including illegal ones. The Federal ATF, not "the police", orchestrated the raid, and were fired upon, killing four agents. That event generated the siege, which ended in the immolation of the compound, and David Koresh's suicide by pistol to the head.

The tactics, even the strategy of the ATF was horribly misguided and clumsy. They went in expecting trouble, with bulletproof vests and armed to the teeth. They really didn't understand what Koresh was about, which was closely similar to what Jim Jones was about 15 years earlier. But they didn't have any intention of massacreing the people in that compound, which is the view of a disturbing number of people on the far right anti-government portion of the political landscape.

caw

Ria13
03-25-2012, 12:51 AM
I've had my differences with Rick Ross (or whoever "rrmoderator" is) over there:
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?8,1016,page=30
I have had them too, as far as his opinions of what might constitute a cult. nothing with the way he runs his board, though, as far as I can remember. I don't mean that to sound dismissive. he didn't moderate my posts AFAIK. and again, I don't mean to sound dismissive. guess he made an exception for you.

like you, I wouldn't take anything on the site as gospel, especially as he takes his stories from media sources, the reliability of which he can't verify.

BillPatt
03-25-2012, 01:02 AM
I remember that one too. I believe it was in Texas? I remember it happening during one of the Bush's presidencies and there was a lot of controversy as to whether the police had a right to raid and attack the camp of they didn't have proof they were stockpiling weapons or something. My memory's a little fuzzy but I do remember talking with my history teacher about it...

Agree - the Branch Davidians in Waco, 1993. It was during the Clinton Presidency, and it was the first major ding on his administration. Janet Reno personally authorized the raid, believing that children were being abused. A total of 84 people died, four of them ATF agents, the rest, Davidians.

Clinton was in office about a month when the whole thing began. (Feb 28th)

BillPatt
03-25-2012, 01:19 AM
But they didn't have any intention of massacreing the people in that compound, which is the view of a disturbing number of people on the far right anti-government portion of the political landscape.

caw

One of the more fascinating aspects of politics is the circular nature of the political spectrum. If you go far enough to the right, beyond libertarianism, you come to the anarchists, which invisibly blend into the the farthest left anarchists, who also believe the government is after them, is illegitimate, and should be overthrown.

Compare, for example, the Waco siege with the MOVE siege in 1985 in Philadelphia. Similar group dynamics, although the size of the group and location differ. The government charged both groups with weapons violations; both groups repulsed initial attempts to bring them in. Both groups were bombed and gassed by the government (BD by the FBI, MOVE by the police), and suffered deaths to fire and gunfire.

I had forgotten about MOVE in this discussion, but they could be considered a cult in a certain light.

LoopyLinde
03-26-2012, 08:29 AM
Seattle had a group called the Love Family for many years -- I've known people who were members. One of the leaders was the son of a famous TV personality whose name escapes me at the moment...


I lived in the same neighborhood on Queen Anne as these guys. They all used Israel as their last name, and first names that were all positive personality traits, like Persistence or Charity. Or Love, which IIRC was the first name of the leader, Love Israel.

They owned a couple of houses that were next to each other, and created a kind of compound that way. And I think I remember that they imploded at one point because Love was discovered to have been siphoning off the financial assets supposedly owned in common by everyone, and putting it all in his private accounts.

The famous guy whose son was a member was Steve something. A famous comedian? Steve Allen?

kygal
03-29-2012, 02:25 PM
I have two cults to add to this list. The first one is Raelism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C3%ABlism

The other is a cult I recently heard about. I'm not sure if they have a name yet.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/pic-bugarach-french-commune-home-20-000-doomsday-210932058.html

Ria13
03-30-2012, 04:03 AM
The other is a cult I recently heard about. I'm not sure if they have a name yet.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/pic-bugarach-french-commune-home-20-000-doomsday-210932058.html
that actually a cult but an example of social contagion. spontaneous self-organization with no name and no leader.