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TheHiddenRepublic
03-15-2012, 07:14 PM
Greetings all,
I have completed my Novel "The Hidden Republic: Kink's Pawn" and I am trying to find the right Agent. Because this is an Action Adventure, Political Thriller, and Historical Fiction, I am finding it really difficult to find an Agent for this book.

It has duel time lines. One in the Past when the American Republic was first set up during and after the American Revolution (1772 - 1801), and the other in current time. Here is a brief synopsis;

Two clandestine societies form after the revolution and have been battling in secret for control of the Federal Government ever since. This 230 year war is about to spill into the open as a race to find hidden documents that can destroy one of the societies is on. Conspiracies abound as agents, assassins, and the powerful elitists do battle in the past and the present.

Itís 1781 and England is losing the war to the young American Republic. King George must use his most secret pawn, called the Praetor, who has gained power in the rouge colonial government through intrigue and deception. The Praetor can not turn the outcome of the war, but he can change the very fabric of the government to destroy it from within. The Founding Fathers struggle to keep him at bay but are losing the fight against his secret Society of Praetorians as they confound the people and gain power. Determined to protect the Republic style of government, the Founders form their own Society to protect the hidden truth locking it away in the hope that some future generation will be able to reinstitute it. Meanwhile the cultural and economic chasm between North and South grows ever wider as each side fights for Federal control.

Fast forward to 2012 and a small Texas town where Emily and Jim Millersí two young daughters are kidnapped off the morning school bus and held for ransom; the ransom being the key to the hidden documents. Somehow her family is involved and she must find the answers that can save the girls. The problem is, handing over the documents will destroy any hope the American people might have to regain control of their out of control Federal Government. She begins a life altering frantic journey with a trio of FBI agents, a history professor, and a world class rogue assassin, in a desperate search on the grounds of Thomas Jeffersonís Monticelloto find the truth. The Society of Praetorians will do everything they can to stop them and if the Praetorians triumph it will mean the colossus Federal government will never be stopped and the people will forever wallow under the whip of tyranny.

So it is National Treasure meets LOTR in reality.

Can anyone recommend a good Agent for this genre? The catch is I use real events in the past to show the corruption of many of the founders who were bent on power and control. It's kind of like "12 Angry Men" when they face off before, during, and after the Constitutional Convention.

I'm thinking someone who holds to the Southern version of the Civil War with a Jeffersonian anti-Federalist take, since that was the dream most of the founders held. State Sovereignty, Nullification, and Secession, are main themes as well as many of the misrepresentations we believe are true.

Several weeks of searching all the Agents listings on the web as well as in the Agent directories in my public library have left me with no names. Every query I send comes back with "they do not agent this type of book."

My website is my name.

Please Help!!
Thanks,
Gary W Barnes

quicklime
03-15-2012, 07:40 PM
Every query I send comes back with "they do not agent this type of book."

My website is my name.

Please Help!!
Thanks,
Gary W Barnes


hi gary, welcome to aw!

i think this comes down perhaps to the way you are trying to over-sell this, coupled with form rejection language. Before you go on, have you actually worked your query through someplace like query letter hell here? your first couple chapters? I see several errors in the first three paragraphs, which leads me to believe the issue isn't finding the right agent, so much as delivering a finished product in what is a vey competetive market.

stick around, browse all the sub-forums, and participate. But right now, I do not believe your issue is finding the right agent for your "genre" so much as fixing your pitch and perhaps book as well.

Quick

gothicangel
03-15-2012, 08:12 PM
So is this historical fiction, or historical fantasy? I would try to sell it under which category you select.

I write historical spy thrillers, but query it as either historical, or historical thriller. I also use elements of: spy/espionage, adventure, military/war fiction and even romance.

I also wonder if this would be more suitable in the Historical forum?

TheHiddenRepublic
03-15-2012, 09:08 PM
Thanks guys. This query quest has been difficult. Since I'm getting such a great response from those who have read the book, I'm not sure a 'fix' to the book is needed. The reviews have been great. Perhaps if I share those here it might help those who are trying to help me. It's condensing the first book of an epic series down to the first 'hook' sentence. Condensing the multiple plots down is also a challenge unless I leave many parts out of the query. I think the Historical Forum would be a good place to work this out. Thanks.

Here are some of the reviews from Amazon.com;
5.0 out of 5 stars January 15, 2012
By LP
This review is from: The Hidden Republic: King's Pawn (Kindle Edition)
Absolutely loved this novel! A must read! It entertained me from start to finish with its twists and turns, secret societies, intrigue and espionage. A historical timeline with facts interspersed throughout the book. He takes us back and forth from the original 13 colonies and our corrupt power-hungry founding fathers to our corrupt politicians of today ... what a thrilling ride! Thanks Gary, can't wait for your next book to continue the ride!!!

5.0 out of 5 stars I'll Read this one AGAIN!!!, January 7, 2012
By Elizabeth
This review is from: The Hidden Republic: King's Pawn (Kindle Edition)
Yes, I'll definitely read this book again!!! The parallel story lines of past and present really kept me turning the pages. The current story line centers on Emily who is thrown into political intrigue and chaos when her daughters are kidnapped for an unknown reason. She learns her husband is connected to a society that has been in existence since the beginnings of our country. She now has to find the hidden documents to save our country before the enemy can stop them.

At the same time we learn about several events in history centering around the formation and the early days of `The Republic' of America. Mr. Barnes has obviously done a great deal of research into American history we were not taught in school. I loved the way these historical facts connected to the present.

I was thrilled with the fast paced, action story of Emily and those who are helping her find the truth about the `Hidden Republic'. I thoroughly enjoyed reading the history of our country. Not the usual George Washington crossing the Delaware on Christmas or the signing of the Declaration of Independence but the plots and agendas of the men involved in first forming our great country. I was stunned to learn about those who were in fact NOT acting in the best interest of a new republic but only for self serving power.

This was a fantastic read, I couldn't put it down and I WILL read it again!!! The few typos I saw didn't detract from the pace or intensity of the story. I can't wait for the next book to come out. Because Mr. Barnes... I want to know what happens next!

5.0 out of 5 stars Five stars just isn't enough, January 6, 2012
By Ali
This review is from: The Hidden Republic: King's Pawn (Kindle Edition)
The Hidden Republic: King's Pawn is such an exciting read! I couldn't put the book down. It's brings the characters and places to life in such a way that I could actually picture myself sitting and watching the events unfold. I sometimes have trouble connecting with the characters of books, but found myself so caught up in the story and feeling such emotion with the characters this book actually had some spots that brought me to tears. I love how the historical actions are being shown to affect the present day in such a way. This book made me rethink the old saying "history always repeats itself" and what more can you say about a book than it made me think. Mr. Barnes is one of the most exciting authors I have ever read. If you get a chance to sit down and read this exciting historical/present day novel you will not regret it.

5.0 out of 5 stars I Just Can't Stop Reading!!, December 29, 2011
By William
This review is from: The Hidden Republic: King's Pawn (Kindle Edition)
From the first page of the book I was instantly hooked. I have not been able to stop reading since I started. I am able to picture every event I read in my mind as if the book is already playing out like a MOVIE!! The experience of just being able to imagine a book as it was meant to be is exhilarating. I can't wait to get to the end and continue the saga. Hollywood better get ready for the next BIG series!

5.0 out of 5 stars Couldn't put it down!, December 14, 2011
By Reviewer "mouser2003"
This review is from: The Hidden Republic: King's Pawn (Kindle Edition)
The book starts off with a "bang" and twists and turns right to the end. I especially like how the author weaves the plot back and forth from past to present. The story was very compelling because it is nothing like any of us learned in our school history classes! I was catching "hints" of other future conspiracies starting to form so I'm hoping the author plans to write a series of books like this. Keep 'em coming!!
Help other customers find the most helpful reviews

5.0 out of 5 stars MOVE OVER DAN BROWN, November 28, 2011
By RH
This review is from: The Hidden Republic: King's Pawn (Kindle Edition)
I expected to read a chapter a day when I first started this book but immediately got pulled into this riveting historical whodunit. Brilliantly written and amazingly interesting. Mr. Barnes catapults you from the birth of our Nation to the modern day suspense of the characters over and over again. I really enjoyed the book and had a hard time putting it down. I can't wait for the sequel and, of course, the movie!!! A MUST READ.

I think I have the book right. It is just finding the Agent. The query has been my big disaster.

quicklime
03-15-2012, 09:39 PM
Thanks guys. This query quest has been difficult.
....
I think I have the book right. It is just finding the Agent. The query has been my big disaster.


am i reading this right, you already self-pubbed this book?

if so, that is your disaster; barring huge sales to indicate a print version should do well, publishers are reluctant to buy after you've already pubbed it. Very reluctant. In turn, agents are reluctant to invest their time and credibility in pushing something publishers don't want.

There is a number of thereads on this here; you may want to check out the basic writing questions and ask the agent forums and scan 2-3 pages back to find a few and read them....sorry for the bad news if I read your post right.

Calla Lily
03-15-2012, 09:41 PM
Wait, wait, wait.

You've already self-pubbed the book?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please, but this book is over and done. You would need to sell thousands (literally) before an agent will touch an already self-published book.

Move on. Write another book, polish it, send it to beta readers, write the query, put it up in Query Letter Hell for dissection and suggestions, and THEN query the new book.

Good luck, and welcome to the best writing forum on the Net. Without AW, I'd be languishing in almost-but-not-quite land.

heyjude
03-15-2012, 10:18 PM
Moving to Ask the Agent...

Also: :welcome: to AW.

And yeah, if this has been self-published, unless your sales are through the roof, write the next book and query it.

quicklime
03-15-2012, 10:36 PM
Thanks guys. This query quest has been difficult. Since I'm getting such a great response from those who have read the book, I'm not sure a 'fix' to the book is needed. The reviews have been great.


6 reviews

one user had 3 items they reviewed (2 being your books) and the rest had 1 (your book) or 2 (your book and a household appliance)

at least 3 specifically mentioned "the movie version"

most of them have similar issues with hyphenation, commas, or other typos, and/or a similar love affair with the exclamation mark

several go to great pains to describe the genius of the author, even referring to him identically as "Mr. Barnes"


i see a lot of similarities that make me wonder if (and sorry to be the one to say this) they are sockpuppet accounts. If so, they don't exactly lend support to the theory the book is solid.......

:-(

IceCreamEmpress
03-15-2012, 10:40 PM
It is far more likely that the agents in question mean, when saying they don't handle "this type of book," that they mean they don't handle already-published titles, rather than that they don't handle historical thrillers.

heyjude
03-15-2012, 10:48 PM
Self-Pubbed Author Seeks Agent (http://www.booksandsuch.biz/blog/self-pubbed-author-seeks-agent/)

How timely.

TheHiddenRepublic
03-15-2012, 11:44 PM
Thanks Guys for all your input. I'm new at all this including the writing venue do to a life change. Forgive my frustration and again thank you all.

My question about Agents is;
Are they all really so full of themselves as their submission guidelines suggest? It seams like winning the lottery has better odds than landing an Agent considering they 'might' be able to look at the first sentence of a query before hitting the auto reject. Many Agents now have 'assistants' that decide. I was not self published before I tried several times to land an Agent. About 100 queries resulted in 40 non responses, 20 rejections by 'assistants', 20 rejections (all were wrong genre), and 20 letting me know how incredibly busy and successful the Agent was and didn't have time to even take a look. Oh one was upfront with me. He takes on about 10 to 15 projects a year and gets some 300 emails per day. He said one in 10,000 who query by email actually land an Agent while 99 percent of all successful writers are because of a warm contact.

So my question now is;
Why on earth would gifted writers allow their work to be subject to such a poor business model as this? I know Agents evolved out of Publishers being overwhelmed with manuscripts. Now it appears the Agents are overwhelmed, and right at the time the whole business is changing to e-books and self publishing. I'm thinking Agents are stuck in the 'Borders" model. You know, when Borders said they didn't need to worry about Amazon and B&N moving to e-books. Goodbye Borders.

Sorry for my rambling...:)

quicklime
03-16-2012, 12:01 AM
So my question now is;
Why on earth would gifted writers allow their work to be subject to such a poor business model as this? I know Agents evolved out of Publishers being overwhelmed with manuscripts. Now it appears the Agents are overwhelmed, and right at the time the whole business is changing to e-books and self publishing. I'm thinking Agents are stuck in the 'Borders" model. You know, when Borders said they didn't need to worry about Amazon and B&N moving to e-books. Goodbye Borders.

Sorry for my rambling...:)


because, shockingly, it isn't a poor business model. You hate it, but it isn't a bad model simply because you hate it. They are swamped, often with lots and lots of "not-ready-for-prime-time" or worse subs.


self-pub has been around forever, agents aren't going anywhere.

if you have an issue, make your query and work so good you MAKE them take notice, instead of getting pissy--agents do in fact see these threads.

Calla Lily
03-16-2012, 12:07 AM
Sigh.

THR, you want to know how to land an agent, which is the only way your ms will get a look from 99% of large and medium publishers?
1. Stop complaining about the system. If you want a commercial contract with all it entails (and advance, royalties, publicity, marketing, reviews, shelf space in brick & mortar stores), then an agent is the way the system works.

2. Write, edit, polish, edit, polish some more--a kickass book.

3. Do the same for a query letter.

4. Read agents' sub guidelines. Are agents busy? Yep. Do they get get swamped with queries? Of course. That is the way the current system works. Wow them in the first 30 seconds or so and you've risen above 90% of the rest of the writing population.

5. Realize that an agent's first priority is their existing client base. That's why they have specific guidelines, so they can look at queries in the limited amount of time allotted to new talent search. That's why you need a WOW first few lines of your query.

5. [being VERY blunt here] Terms like "gifted writers" don't leave a positive impression. Writers are talented at creating. Agents are talented salespeople. We need each other--it's as simple as that. Either work with the system or break away and keep self-publishing.

It's not easy to land an agent and a commercial pub contract. It takes most of us several years. *raises hand* Years of learning the craft. Writing. Revising. Lather, rinse, repeat. I got 185 rejections before I got an agent and got more rejections from pubs when my agent put my books out there. That's the business, and I chose to work within the system for the rewards.

It's your choice.

Hip-Hop-a-potamus
03-16-2012, 12:30 AM
Thanks Guys for all your input. I'm new at all this including the writing venue do to a life change. Forgive my frustration and again thank you all.

My question about Agents is;
Are they all really so full of themselves as their submission guidelines suggest? It seams like winning the lottery has better odds than landing an Agent considering they 'might' be able to look at the first sentence of a query before hitting the auto reject. Many Agents now have 'assistants' that decide. I was not self published before I tried several times to land an Agent. About 100 queries resulted in 40 non responses, 20 rejections by 'assistants', 20 rejections (all were wrong genre), and 20 letting me know how incredibly busy and successful the Agent was and didn't have time to even take a look. Oh one was upfront with me. He takes on about 10 to 15 projects a year and gets some 300 emails per day. He said one in 10,000 who query by email actually land an Agent while 99 percent of all successful writers are because of a warm contact.

So my question now is;
Why on earth would gifted writers allow their work to be subject to such a poor business model as this? I know Agents evolved out of Publishers being overwhelmed with manuscripts. Now it appears the Agents are overwhelmed, and right at the time the whole business is changing to e-books and self publishing. I'm thinking Agents are stuck in the 'Borders" model. You know, when Borders said they didn't need to worry about Amazon and B&N moving to e-books. Goodbye Borders.

Sorry for my rambling...:)

We all know those odds. Most of us have been rejected more times than we can count. That's just how things work if you want to do more than self-publish. Keep writing, keep polishing, and keep perfecting your craft.

Publishing is a business that moves at a glacial pace. You have to be prepared for it. And you have to be prepared to receive no replies to queries at all.

I've seen several major typos in only three posts of yours. I would suggest beta readers for your next project. Or join a writers' group near you. We ALL need at least one extra set of eyes, whether we're published or not.

Katrina S. Forest
03-16-2012, 12:47 AM
If querying was like a lottery, based on pure chance, yes, each person's odds would be quite poor. But when you submit a query, you aren't entering a lottery. You're entering a competition. And that means you have some degree of control. Make your query stand out. Write a book that people want to buy. What those stats about new clients don't tell you is how many partial requests, how many full requests, and how many requests to revise and resubmit the agent made. These things matter because they tell you that you're on the right track. If you're getting nothing but form rejections, something is going wrong either in your query or your opening pages. Or you are submitting to agents who don't represent your genre.

It makes sense for agents to have assistants. This lets the agent focus on their clients, which is what you're aiming to be. An assistant is a person the agent trusts to know their tastes.

And it also makes sense for an agent to judge a manuscript based only on a small portion. That's what I do as a reader. I've picked books of the shelves and put them right back after the first page. I've also picked books off the shelves that I couldn't get my nose out of and bumped into other shelves on the way to the cashier to pay for the blasted things.

And if your writing gives agents that experience, yes, they will ask for more.

Little Ming
03-16-2012, 01:18 AM
It gets repeated a lot here, but I'll repeat it again: This is not a game of odds, it's a game of skill. Of those 10,000 submissions an agent sees over 90 percent of them are not ready or just plain unpublishable (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004641.html). And of those 10 percent that are publishable, does it really suit the agent and the current market? When you break it all down only about 1 percent really stand a chance. Assuming you've written a great/publishable/profitable novel, an awesome query and queried the right agent at the right time (yes, all of this can be researched and controlled, and not based purely on odds) then you are really only competing with about 10 other writers for that one agent.

If you think the agent-submission process is unfair, can you imagine the alternative? Hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) of submissions going straight to the publishers? When will they ever find the time to publish something? ;)

Focus on what you can control. Get betas to read your novel. Not friends, not family, but people who have no problem telling you what your problems are. Preferably people who know what they are talking about, other professional writers or editors. Throw your query up on QLH (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=174) when you reach 50 posts and let the critters rip it apart.

Marian Perera
03-16-2012, 01:36 AM
Many Agents now have 'assistants' that decide.

I'm just curious, THR - why is the word assistants in quotation marks?

Would you like it if an assistant referred to you as a 'writer'?

Cyia
03-16-2012, 01:43 AM
Went to Amazon and took a look.

First off, things like this:
Special First Print Collectors Edition with original Cover Art. in the product description aren't helping you. "Collector's Edtions" only matter with books popular enough to generate collectors of them.

Second, after scanning the "Look inside" feature, I'd suggest you get yourself a brutal beta reader. Whatever story you've got is being choked by the presentation of it.

Marian Perera
03-16-2012, 02:02 AM
Second, after scanning the "Look inside" feature, I'd suggest you get yourself a brutal beta reader. Whatever story you've got is being choked by the presentation of it.

I checked the book out too, and I couldn't get past the "Author Notes" at the start. Not just because they're long; length I can deal with if something has hooked me. But when I see the author saying, again and again, how difficult it was for him to write the novel - "it wasn't pretty", "it was ugly, it was awful", "It (sic) tried and tried but kept coming up with a boring historical text" - it doesn't make me feel confident that the book will be an engaging, entertaining read.

No matter how excruciatingly painful the process of creation was, or what a hot mess the first draft was, don't tell the readers about that before they've even had a chance to begin the story.

IceCreamEmpress
03-16-2012, 02:24 AM
He said one in 10,000 who query by email actually land an Agent while 99 percent of all successful writers are because of a warm contact.

Whoever told you that was either misinformed or misinforming you for some reason.


So my question now is;
Why on earth would gifted writers allow their work to be subject to such a poor business model as this?How's the self-publishing working out for you? That's why.

You want in to the commercial publishing model, or you wouldn't be querying agents. The reason you're not getting bites is because your manuscript isn't ready for commercial publication.

Sour grapes aren't going to help you. What will help you is getting your manuscript in shape. By which I mean your manuscript for the next book because this book is already published and it is going to sink or swim as it is.

If you sell a couple thousand copies, someone might be interested in looking at picking it up. But an agent isn't likely to be interested in representing an already-published book.

Move on to your next project, and be savvier about how you do it this time.

TheHiddenRepublic
03-16-2012, 02:40 AM
Thank you all for your candid responses. I am out of my element with the industry and obviously most of the writers here.. My apologies for sounding off on a subject I know very little about.

Perhaps we can start over??

Hello to all and thank you for welcoming a newbie.

quicklime
03-16-2012, 03:06 AM
Thank you all for your candid responses. I am out of my element with the industry and obviously most of the writers here.. My apologies for sounding off on a subject I know very little about.

Perhaps we can start over??

Hello to all and thank you for welcoming a newbie.



takes balls to apologize like that......I'm down to start over, but recommend you do a lot of looking, because there is a lot you don't know yet, and I would suggest you get comfortable with the idea writing, both learning and pubbing, is a marathon and not a sprint.

Welcome to AW,
Quick

Little Ming
03-16-2012, 03:08 AM
:welcome:

If you are serious about your publishing career then get ready for a lot of work. The people here can be harsh, but they know what they are talking about.

Good luck.

TheHiddenRepublic
03-16-2012, 03:14 AM
Thank you Quick,

I come from my own business as a wallpaper installer, a very analytic brain.

TheHiddenRepublic
03-16-2012, 03:36 AM
Yes Little Ming. That was a very quick lesson...

TheHiddenRepublic
03-16-2012, 03:41 AM
I quick question.

Should all the Chapters start on the right side? The Chicago Manual has them on the right. Being a Novel, I'm not sure if they all should. I know Title page and Chapter 1 should. Not sure about the rest. I see them starting everywhere on different books with Angels & Demons starting right after the last one on the same page.

heyjude
03-16-2012, 05:09 AM
Thank you all for your candid responses. I am out of my element with the industry and obviously most of the writers here.. My apologies for sounding off on a subject I know very little about.

Perhaps we can start over??

Hello to all and thank you for welcoming a newbie.

:hi: Good for you. :)

The chapter thing... it just doesn't matter, if you're subbing to agents. Just start the new chapter on a new page. If you're self-pubbing I'm not sure it matters either, but I'm no expert.

Calla Lily
03-16-2012, 05:15 AM
Hello and welcome, THR.

Don't worry about things like what page to start a chapter on. Check out the Basic writing questions and the Novels boards, and the historical and Thriller boards if that's what you want your next novel to be about. Good luck!

IceCreamEmpress
03-16-2012, 11:42 PM
Thank you all for your candid responses. I am out of my element with the industry and obviously most of the writers here.. My apologies for sounding off on a subject I know very little about.

Perhaps we can start over??

Hello to all and thank you for welcoming a newbie.

Welcome! And thank you for taking the tough love in the spirit it was intended.

One place to check out while you're here is our great Self-Publishing and POD subforum, where there are a lot of folks who can give you great advice on promoting The Hidden Republic while you work on your next manuscript.

TheHiddenRepublic
03-19-2012, 07:18 PM
Can anyone let me know where I can offer the first several chapters for a reading and review? I cleaned up the front matter as some of you suggested. Several people have told me to have the beginning of my novel read by others for feedback. I can't seem to find what group that would be in. I also can't find the Historical group. Some here also went to look at the beginning of the novel on Amazon. I invite you back now that I have cleaned up the book page.
Thanks all!!

Cyia
03-19-2012, 07:23 PM
When you have 50 posts, you can put the first chapter up in "Share Your Work". It's a password protected subforum (password :vista) to keep out the bots and spiders.

Most people put up posts that are under 2500 words so they don't scare off potential readers.

TheHiddenRepublic
03-19-2012, 07:26 PM
Can anyone let me know where I can offer the first several chapters for a reading and review? I cleaned up the front matter as some of you suggested. Several people have told me to have the beginning of my novel read by others for feedback. I can't seem to find what group that would be in. I also can't find the Historical group. Some here also went to look at the beginning of the novel on Amazon. I invite you back now that I have cleaned up the book page.
Thanks all!!

Cyia
03-19-2012, 07:30 PM
Um... THR? Why did you post the same question after I answered it?

Calla Lily
03-19-2012, 07:49 PM
THR, why are you planning to put already published chapters in SYW? The book is out there. End of story.

Write a new book and put those first chapters up when they're polished.

Marian Perera
03-20-2012, 05:09 PM
I invite you back now that I have cleaned up the book page. Thanks all!!

Welcome to AW!

I took another look at the book, and read up to "September 1983". There are still improvements which can be made, but this isn't the right thread to discuss that.

Mods: would SYW still be inappropriate if THR is planning to correct mistakes in the e-book?

TheHiddenRepublic
03-22-2012, 07:52 PM
I am trying to find the right thread for this. Some have mentioned places to go, but this community has a ton of threads. Can anyone give me a more specific locating on the site?
Thanks all.

CaoPaux
03-22-2012, 08:06 PM
Share Your Work (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26) is a forum, not a thread. Is that what you're looking for?