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Orianna2000
03-03-2012, 09:34 AM
Basically my novel is split in half, divided into "Book I" and "Book II" . . . and each "book" is subtitled and has a quote on its title page. Do I include this in the manuscript when I submit it? I mean, if they only ask for 5 pages, it seems silly to waste one full page on the subtitle and quote. I wouldn't do that! But what if they request the full manuscript? Should I include the subtitled pages and quotes then? Or do I wait until I have a contract with an agent and then mention, "Oh, by the way, I wanted to divide the book into parts. . . ."

In a similar vein (just out of curiosity) at what point do I submit an author's note, or acknowledgements/dedication? Is that something that comes later, once a publisher's shown interest? Or do I include those in the original manuscript that I submit to agents?

Cacophony
03-03-2012, 09:51 AM
Damn good question. In for answer.

jeffo20
03-03-2012, 03:23 PM
I'm not sure about the first part - Is there a way to format it when you submit so that it doesn't take up a full page?

As for the second part, I think (this is not personal experience, as I haven't been published, it's based on what I've seen others say somewhere on this board) you submit that sometime during the publication process, i.e., when the book is closer to actual publication. I wouldn't send one along to an agent who has requested your ms.

RichardGarfinkle
03-03-2012, 04:00 PM
Title pages don't usually count when they ask for five pages.

When you submit a full manuscript it should include all the content so that the agent and/or editor can judge and make suggestions based on what you are actually doing.

Buffysquirrel
03-03-2012, 04:15 PM
This might do better in Ask the Agent.

MrFrankenstein
03-03-2012, 04:32 PM
The layout that I've seen, is a very simple TITLE + AUTHOR'S NAME on the top of the page, followed by X number of pages of double-spaced work. (Where X = however much they want to see).

Possibly save the quotes and other stuff for later in the process - initially, I reckon, most publishers would want to see five pages of your writing in action...?

willietheshakes
03-03-2012, 05:50 PM
Acknowledgments and author's note, etc, are the last step in the process - in my experience, they come after the editorial process, just before first pages (if not later - I've seen many an ARC with "Acknowledgments TK" after the text).

Polenth
03-03-2012, 05:58 PM
The way I split is based on whether it's part of the story-reading experience. Prologues, story structure (breaks for scenes/chapters/sections) and quotes at the start of chapters/sections are all intended as part of the story. So they'd go in the full.

Author's notes, dedications and acknowledgements are not part of the story. They're the frilly bits added just before publication and may change between editions. So they don't go in a full.

leahzero
03-03-2012, 06:34 PM
I would not include the title/quote page if you're only including 5 (or 10, or 30, or 50) pages. The sample won't even get to Book II, so there's little point distinguishing Book I from it. And the agent only wants to see your writing at that point. Save the extras for the full.

Plus, "Book I" sets a certain tone and sense of expectation that could actually work to your detriment. When I see that a novel is divided into parts or books, I assume the first section takes place in the past and sets up things to come. This could have a psychological effect on a reader who's looking for reasons to stop reading and move on to the next manuscript.

eqb
03-03-2012, 06:40 PM
In a similar vein (just out of curiosity) at what point do I submit an author's note, or acknowledgements/dedication? Is that something that comes later, once a publisher's shown interest? Or do I include those in the original manuscript that I submit to agents?

That comes later, once your book has sold to the publisher. My publishers ask for the dedication and acknowledgments after the copyedits and before the first galley pass.

Orianna2000
03-03-2012, 07:09 PM
Thanks for answering my questions! I appreciate it, guys. :)

Edited to Add: I did see one example of a MS that had the "Book I" and quote at the top, just above "Chapter One". What do you think of something like that?

Andrea_James
03-03-2012, 09:28 PM
Is the quote important to the plot or premise of the story? Does it help the reader understand what's about to happen? For instance, if I remember right, Atwood uses a quote from The Odyssey in The Penelopeiad, because The Penelopeiad is a feminist re-working of The Odyssey, and, while a fabulous book on its own, makes less sense if it's divorced from its original context. Is your work specifically referencing this quote as a fundamental aspect of its concept, or is it just a nice piece of writing that happens to correspond to some element of what you've written? If it's the first, then include the quote (but don't let it take up your entire first page--re-format!). If it's the second, wait for a later stage in the process. And if it's the second, be prepared to have an agent or editor tell you to cut it.

priceless1
03-03-2012, 09:43 PM
Basically my novel is split in half, divided into "Book I" and "Book II" . . . and each "book" is subtitled and has a quote on its title page. Do I include this in the manuscript when I submit it?
I agree with you. I would suggest saving that for when they ask to read the full.



In a similar vein (just out of curiosity) at what point do I submit an author's note, or acknowledgements/dedication? Is that something that comes later, once a publisher's shown interest? Or do I include those in the original manuscript that I submit to agents?
Those aren't even a blip on anyone's radar until the editor is ready to take your book to be printed into ARCs. If you have them, fine. You'd submit them to your editor along with your full manuscript. But your agent won't normally care about these elements, since they're trying to sell the story. In fact, all the agents I work with remove them from the manuscript before they send them to me during the query stage.

Orianna2000
03-03-2012, 11:37 PM
Good to know, thanks!

writerGDW
03-05-2012, 12:41 AM
When I've submitted fulls for my memoir, I have included an "afterword" and "author's note" at the end. This is because I want the agent to know that I changed some names to protect privacy, and that, where possible, I verified facts with people who were there.

Just wanted to throw that out there...I think in some cases it's helpful to include early on.

Orianna2000
03-05-2012, 01:14 AM
If you include an afterward, which I was thinking of doing, do you still put "End" at the end of the novel? Or does that go at the end of the book, after the author's note at the end?

writerGDW
03-05-2012, 01:59 AM
I didn't put the word "End" at the end. I didn't think that was necessary.

Orianna2000
03-05-2012, 02:15 AM
I don't know if it's strictly necessary or not, but I've read more than one "manuscript formatting" website that suggests you put "End" or "The End" so the agent/publisher knows for sure that your story is done. Sometimes novels' endings aren't quite obvious. Many times I've turned the page of a book expecting more, only to find that it was done. There was no more. I could see how an editor or agent would want to know for sure, so they don't waste time wondering if they're missing a page. But again, I don't know if this is a "rule" or just a suggestion.

eqb
03-05-2012, 11:51 PM
I don't put END, but I do use the ### symbol, which means the same thing. As you said, it clearly marks the end of the ms.

Besides, it's satisfying. :)