The consoles don't seem to be working out as tools of innovation

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LOG

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http://www.gamesradar.com/why-next-...-nothing-but-a-reason-to-switch-to-PC-gaming/

PC gaming by comparison to console gaming is the slightly scummy all-night bar with the cool jukebox next door. Yeah, the paintwork is peeling a bit and the toilets don’t always flush like they should, but more interesting people hang out there, the conversation is interesting, and no-one is too bothered about anyone’s appearance or social status as long as they’re having a good time. Oh, and there’s no door charge.
The various consoles’ downloadable game services were meant to level the playing field. They were meant to be the saviours of more experimental and lower budget indie development on the big HD machines. They were supposed to turn console gaming into a truly democratic, healthy and varied experience by opening up an outlet for the kind of games that just couldn’t find a market in an age dominated by big retail blockbusters. And for a while they did.
But now? Nintendo’s online stores are an organisational and marketing shambles. The PSN is still has a steady trickle of interesting exclusives but what does Xbox Live Arcade give us these days? Three or four decent downloadable games a year, increasingly tied to big franchises or publishers, and almost certainly tied into some Microsoft-branded promotion. The rest are left to die. Indie devs are giving up on the Xbox 360 in droves, repeatedly citing too much control and too little support from Microsoft as the reasons. The freer (though frequently crap-filled) XBL Indie Games marketplace has been buried deep by the new dashboard update. The “triple-A or GTFO” model remains the same. Only the delivery method and file sizes have changed.
By nature of being an open platform, though, the PC has the full spectrum of gaming, covering every level of budget, profile, genre and beardy-weirdy artiness. There are no publishing gate-keepers. It’s just you and your audience, and handily your audience are pretty much all connected to the internet. Whether you use a distribution network like Steam or not, getting your game out there is cheaper and easier than on consoles by far. So creativity and ambition of every size and shape can flourish.
As much as we gamers moan about the increasing homogenisation of mainstream games, we never acknowledge that the problem is utterly exacerbated on consoles. We ignore the fact that the development freedom that we say we want is happening every day on the PC. We rightly champion the odd console release like Braid or Limbo as a mighty strike for creativity, but there's a raft of stuff in that vein happening all over the PC every day, along with more new IP than you can keep up with. We complain, but we rarely make the leap away from the systems and structures that cause the problems we lambast.
In complete agreement except for the final statement.
 
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efkelley

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Consoles don't even come close to the hardware standard anymore. They just don't upgrade fast enough. Played a fair bit of Skyrim on the Xbox. Then the brother picked it up for me on PC. Vast difference!
 

Zoombie

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I thought PC gaming was supposed to be dying or something...

I'd put up a sarcasm smiley, but whatever.
 

Maxx

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I thought PC gaming was supposed to be dying or something...

I'd put up a sarcasm smiley, but whatever.

I never understood the attraction of console gaming. If you are going to spend time on something, why do it with murky graphics, infantile controllers and homogenized content?

I just bought a tiny gem of a PC game. It cost next-to-nothing, has functional graphics, pretty much no processing requirements to speak of AND it is the first game I've ever seen with the Ottoman Ironclad "Happiness" (Mesudiye or to give its full name: Mesudiye Zırhlı Firkateyn-i Hümayunu / "The Royal Armoured Frigate Mesudiye") plus the submarines and minefields needed to sink her:


 
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kuwisdelu

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Consoles don't even come close to the hardware standard anymore. They just don't upgrade fast enough. Played a fair bit of Skyrim on the Xbox. Then the brother picked it up for me on PC. Vast difference!

I never understood the attraction of console gaming. If you are going to spend time on something, why do it with murky graphics, infantile controllers and homogenized content?

Yeah, but not all of us want to bother with upgrading gaming rigs every couple years when you can just buy a console once a decade and not have to worry about it.

Yes, I am that scourge of hardcore gamers everywhere: the casual gamer. Sorry.
 

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Yeah, but not all of us want to bother with upgrading gaming rigs every couple years when you can just buy a console once a decade and not have to worry about it.

But, uh, most PC games are now crippled console ports, so as long as you bought your PC a year or two after the console was released and don't rely on Intel integrated graphics, there's no need to upgrade.

It's only in the last year or so that PC game developers have become so embarassed by the poor graphics of their console ports that they've really started to take advantage of five years of improvements in PC hardware.
 

kuwisdelu

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But, uh, most PC games are now crippled console ports, so as long as you bought your PC a year or two after the console was released and don't rely on Intel integrated graphics, there's no need to upgrade.

I don't know. I still remember seeing everyone pointing to sites listing compatibilities of tons of recent games with tons of graphics cards and seeing a fair bit of red.

ETA: Mind you, like I said, I'm only a casual gamer. Having a discrete card is nice, and sometimes something I pay attention to, but not a deal breaker. I have no desire to buy a computer focused on playing games. Other things are more important to me in a computer. I like playing a game or two now and then, though.
 

Zoombie

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I never got why a casual gamer would be a "scourge" of anything...the markets big enough to support a huge verity of tastes and anyone who pretends otherwise is a fucking idiot.
 

efkelley

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I wouldn't worry, Kuwisdelu, no one here will mock your casual status.

It's true that keeping a gaming console upgraded can be a bit of a challenge, but I've found that upgrading CPU and GPU every two years is unnecessary. Upgrade one every two years, and get the other two years later. And never buy top-of-the-line. Get the second best thing out there. Of course, all of this assumes one builds their own machines, which most folks just aren't going to be interested in doing.

Also, console/PC supremacy is on a pendulum. PCs are at the top of the swing right now. Consoles will come back with something shiny in the next couple of years. But, the article rightfully points out that the supposed 'independent development Mecca' offered by console marketplaces is hardly more than a corporate window. If you don't have the bucks to get in, you can't play.

Maxx: What game is that?? I might need it to go on living...
 

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Personally, I'll still prefer consoles. You don't have to worry about the specs at all. If you have the system, it'll work. Plus, I like that it's worked to my TV instead of a computer monitor.

As for graphics, I honestly can't see a big difference between the PS3 and the PC version of games. Not to mention the fact that most people don't play PC games on their highest settings anyways.
 

LOG

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This is not a Console vs. PC debate on a technical scale, that matter has been fought out across the internet (and here).

This is about the Console vs. PC in the arena of their games' availability and creativity.

Is it worth it to only have to upgrade once every decade if it means you get nothing but big-name, homogenous sequels for most of that period? I wouldn't be able to handle that.
 

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Also, console/PC supremacy is on a pendulum. PCs are at the top of the swing right now. Consoles will come back with something shiny in the next couple of years.

I wouldn't bet on that; releasing a new high-end console costs billions of dollars and it's hard to justify when you haven't made your money back on the previous generation. I'm not sure about the PS3, but last I looked Microsoft was still a few billion in the red on the Xbox.

I would imagine one of the reasons why you can't easily get indie games onto consoles is that the console manufacturers want to keep licensing fees high to cover the cost of making the console.
 

kuwisdelu

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Is it worth it to only have to upgrade once every decade if it means you get nothing but big-name, homogenous sequels for most of that period? I wouldn't be able to handle that.

Are there many indie games that run so poorly on more modest graphics cards?

I would assume they'd target more modest hardware requirements.
 

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Sorry, but the title of this thread is horribly misleading. Consoles "don't seem to be working out" in what regard? They massively eclipse PC game sales. So, consoles suck at providing great, reliable access to indie games? So what? The average gamer doesn't care.

"Even though consoles gaming sales totally obliterate PC gaming sales by a factor of about 10, PC's totally dominate consoles when it comes to indie games! Woo! Indie games!"

"Wow...that's um....cool...I guess? I'm gonna go back to playing Modern Warfare 3 now."


Sorry, but in the eyes of the average gamer, when it comes to "Consoles versus PCs," PCs will always be the Washington Generals.

(if you don't get that reference, you're definitely a hardcore PC gamer. ;) )
 

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I think the indie game market is starting to and will continue to thrive in the handheld device market. In a few years, all of these "also-ran" devices will drop off and we'll be left with only a few core platforms - likely the iPad and one main Android tablet as well as the PS Vita and smartphones - in addition to consoles and PCs.

Games will have to be cross-platform and cloud-accessible. This will be much easier for indie games to take advantage of and, with the advent of all the apps marketplaces, they'll thrive. Hell, look at games like Angry Birds and Words with Friends. Yeah, I know neither are the types of games you guys are talking about but they are indie games that have made a killing on the handheld platform market.
 

LOG

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Sorry, but the title of this thread is horribly misleading. Consoles "don't seem to be working out" in what regard?
*shrug* Added to the thread title a bit.

They massively eclipse PC game sales. So, consoles suck at providing great, reliable access to indie games? So what? The average gamer doesn't care.
I've never met an "average gamer."
The phrase is practically meaningless as far as I can tell.

It's not solely about indie games, it's about how the console is being eclipsed by only a few gaming companies and lacking the constant fresh blood and innovation that's seen in PC games ATM.
Again, this is not an article or a thread for a Console vs. PC war. The article's purpose is to compare the two systems and point out what is a perceived flaw in the console's current existence as a gaming medium. The article is hardly telling anyone to throw their console out a window, the author's final statement shows that much at least. The strongest language is that we may want to make a move away from consoles, and then simply because they're not providing everything they should be so PCs will look better by comparison. If the console could figure out a way to get as many new and innovative games as the PC does, then power to it (it won't bring me back, but I'd be glad to hear it).

"Even though consoles gaming sales totally obliterate PC gaming sales by a factor of about 10, PC's totally dominate consoles when it comes to indie games! Woo! Indie games!"

"Wow...that's um....cool...I guess? I'm gonna go back to playing Modern Warfare 3 now."
If that's how you feel, you probably should have stopped at:
Right, a caveat for the rest of this feature. If you're perfectly happy with glossy commercial games, and if all you want from your gaming is a string of shiny blockbusters and sequels to your favourite stuff, you don't need to bother reading on. But if you want more from your gaming experiences, and if you care about games as a developing creative medium, then just ahead I'll explain exactly why I currently think a move away from console gaming is going to be important to you over the next couple of years.
 

Dawnstorm

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Well, I'm out of the roaster and have been for a while. The article does a good job explaining the problem with consoles, but it does a bad job at demonstrating the situation is better on the PC.

First, I'm sort of surprised to hear that the various nets were supposed to provide an innovation platform. I thought they were (a) attempts at community building, and (b) an easy platform to sell their back catalog (which might have been, for example, part of why the PS3 is no longer backwards compatible with the PS2, even though early editions were). Basically, I've always viewed them as a waterd-down console version of Facebook.

So console games are going to havel ittle variety, but PC games lots? So give me a few examples (instead of a casual mention of Minecraft and two links to 2012 PC games, most of which look like "glossy commercial games" anyway, and many will have console versions, too. Oh, and the lack of 2012 console games makes me wonder whether the comparison would not be that favourable for the article's point.)

As I said, I'm out of the roaster, but whenever, in recent years, I found an interesting game concept it would be on a handheld console. (I'm thinking of stuff like Patapon, or that game on the Nintendo DS where you'd write words to literally create objects out of nothing to use...).

I also found it amusing that people still write games for the Commodore 64 (and that you can actually buy expensive new hardware, too...). So, apparantly retro gaming has a flourishing developement scene? (Found a New Megadrive Rpg...)

And while I'm at it: I'm not sure what effect the ever increasing online activation will have on PC innovation. It's not exactly a magnet for idealists, I reckon.

I'm not convinced; but - again - I'm out of the roaster. Jaded, maybe. So who knows.
 

Maxx

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Also, console/PC supremacy is on a pendulum. PCs are at the top of the swing right now. Consoles will come back with something shiny in the next couple of years. But, the article rightfully points out that the supposed 'independent development Mecca' offered by console marketplaces is hardly more than a corporate window. If you don't have the bucks to get in, you can't play.

Maxx: What game is that?? I might need it to go on living...

The game is Steam and Iron. the graphics are miminal (that photo is a photo of the real Happiness not a screen capture of Happiness in game) BUT you can sink the Goeben or design and build your own ships in the 1890 to 1920 time frame. Innovation in PC games has always been pretty high and it is getting better and better at least in the world of niche games such as StrikeFighters2 and all its mods (and the Spin-offs about 'Nam) or Arma2 and its mods and spin-offs (East Front WWII 1944 made by Russians with some loving ax-grinding).
Other games such as Rise of Flight are build more like free to play games with mods you can pay for.
Anyway, if games actually interest you, PCs have a lot more to offer.
 

Maxx

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So console games are going to havel ittle variety, but PC games lots? So give me a few examples...

Take on Heliopters
All of the total war series
Ironclads (4 or 5 of those)
A huge array of Flight simulators (eg Rise of Flight)
Arma1 - Arma3 and a tremendous array of Mods
Strike Fighters and a tremendous array of Mods
IL-2 and a tremendous array of Mods
Cliffs of Dover and Battle of Moscow (flight simulators)
Steam and Iron
Distant Guns (Russo-Japanese war)
Jutland (all of the North Sea 1915-16)
War in the Pacific (and lots of mods)

I could go on ... but for niche games the PC is the only platform.
 

Maxx

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Are there many indie games that run so poorly on more modest graphics cards?

I would assume they'd target more modest hardware requirements.

Most American indie games aren't graphically intensive. There are a few exceptions, but as a rule it is the Russians and Czechs who have been making extraordinary, graphically intense niche PC games.
 

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Maybe its just me. But I can't stand PC gaming. I find the constant upgrading really annoying. And playing sports game on the pc sucks unless you have a controller.

Actually that got me thinking. PC gaming rules.
 

kuwisdelu

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So poorly as what?

The argument against consoles is they don't get as many innovative games. But what's to stop someone who has a console from getting a PC game if they want? I'd assume the limiting factor is not having a powerful enough gaming rig, but it doesn't seem to me that would be as much of a problem with the non-big-name games.
 
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