Diacritical Mark? Which one?

alleycat

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I'm posting this at Puma's request (since I'm a little better at uploading graphics to the Internet).

This is really Puma. I need several bits of help on the item pasted below. The same signature appears twice – once at the top of the item and crossed out with Z.W. Selby written above it. In both signatures, there’s a mark like a C over what appears to be an M. Is it a diacritical mark, and if so which one? Second, if it is a diacritical mark – what nationality would it be from? Third, in the lower signature the first name is clear – Georg, but in both signatures I’m not 100% positive on the last name. It appears to be Kerschb??? What do you think the end of the name is after the B. Thank you so much for any help you can give me. I’m trying to solve a long standing genealogical question. Puma



431467_212979818798124_100002583237207_406657_737698244_n.jpg


This is the same image, perhaps slightly clearer:

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...798124_100002583237207_406657_737698244_n.jpg
 
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KatieJ

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It looks like Kerschbaum to me. I don't have an explanation for the "C" over it, but I used to enter census data at the FamilySearch website, and they have a key to help figure out the antique spellings. I don't know if you have to volunteer to help transcribe to see the key, but it would be worth checking.
 

Puma

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Thank you, Alleycat! I really appreciate your help. Puma
 

alleycat

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If there had just been one of those little c's, I might have thought it was actually "in" instead of "m" and someone got a little careless with the dot over the i.
 

Dawnstorm

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I agree with KatieJ; it looks like "Georg Kerschbaum" to me. I also have a theory about the "c". It may be over the "u" not over the "m"; in handwriting, people sometimes add a little bow over a "u" to distinguish it from an "n" or "m" (as they all can look like a squiggly line in certain hands). I've seen that many times, and this could be such a case. Not sure, though.
 

ironmikezero

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I suspect it's a simply clerical error - a miss-signed court document wherein one of the involved parties or administrative staff signed by mistake on the line reserved for the probate judge/clerk. A look at the entire document page may help to put it in perspective.

The little "c" may not be a diacritical mark after all. It could be an integral part of the original signature - a linguistic aspect of the signatory party's native language, perhaps?
 

Dawnstorm

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I've done some research, and found that the habit of a "bow" over the "u" could have come from old German scripts such as Sütterlin or Kurrent. ("Kerschbaum" is a German name, so that would fit.)
 

Cyia

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It looks to me like the "c" is actually an ultra high loop on the beginning of the "m". In the not-crossed-out sig, you can see a very faint line connecting it to the "m", as though the writer was using a fountain pen, turned it to make the swoop, but it was on a non-inking angle.
 

Puma

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Thank you everyone. Rep points have been passed out.

I didn't think it would take long to get some answers if I posted here - and it didn't. I did some checking on old German script and can see the similarity in some of the other letters besides the one I was questioning. Apparently the hook was made over U to distinguish it from N.

And yes, the document (my great grandfather's original Oath of Allegiance to the United States) was first signed where the judge was supposed to sign and that signature had to be crossed out. There has always been some mystery attached to where he had come from.

Thank you again for your help, and Alleycat, thank you again. I really appreciate it. Puma
 

GeorgeK

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The first name at the top looks like Goerig, whereas the bottom looks like Georg. People can have sloppy penmanship, but usually don't mispell their first name. I can count on one hand the number of times that I've transposed the o and e in my name. The surname at the top looks like it starts with an H wheras the bottom looks like a K. Are you sure that this was not written by a couple different people? It makes me think, "forgery."

The little c mark could be a variety of things from a boisterous dotting of an i to an erzats umlaut. Do you know for certain the native language of the person?
 

Puma

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Thanks for your reply, George. As I mentioned, there have been questions as to his origin. For one, there is no record of his or his wife's birth in the International Genealogical Index maintained by the Mormon Church from extracted records - and I know the church has microfilmed the records where he supposedly came from - I have a friend in Austria who did it.

I thought looking at his signature might provide some clues and I do think the old German script makes sense, but that doesn't necessarily pinpoint origin. Puma
 

Puma

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Isn't that the truth, Jaksen. This is one of my favorite forums on AW - always learning something. Puma
 

MaryMumsy

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One of my gg grandfather's came from a German speaking area in around 1860. I have photocopies of documents given to me by his granddaughter, in his writing, in German. I'll dig them out and take a look to see if the writing is similar or has that mark. She knew her grandparents when she was growing up, and knows precisely where he came from. Might be of some help to you.

She is around 92, sharp as a tack, uses the computer for genealogy research, works part time for a nephew who runs an internet business, and volunteers at the local grade school with kids having trouble with reading. Before I found her, I only knew of 3 children of those gg grandparents. She told me about 3 more. My g grandfather was #2, her father was #5.

MM
 

Puma

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Thanks, Mary. It will be interesting to know if the script is similar. I was surprised at how ornate it is in the signature (the only writing I'm aware of he did). Puma
 

Puma

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Update: I have friends in Germany who have recently completed a project compiling the history of their town over the past 800 years. The project included reading documents in old German scripts.

I sent them a copy of the signature in this thread with no information on what I thought the name was. They responded that the name is Georg Kerschbaum and that he was writing in old German script. They even sent me a copy of the old German alphabet, upper and lower case, so I could see the letters.

I feel comfortable with the answer. Several of you here said the same thing, so that's a pretty good result. I appreciate everyone's help and interest in the question. Puma