"Some of that whiteness might rub off on me"

Wow, I cannot believe this wasn't reported more widely! I'm genuinely shocked at the media.

I'm dubious about calling a black person racist for using inflammatory language about another black person. Insulting, yes. Racist? Not sure that follows.

Thaddeus Matthews's words are not really new in either sentiment or tone. You can disagree with both his opinions and how he presented them, but vitriolic references to "house slaves" go all the way back to Frederick Douglas.

And I'm even more dubious about all the white people who seize on outbursts like this and wave it about triumphantly going "Where's your outrage now, librulz? Why, you should be just as angry when an obscure black DJ goes off on another black person as when a major national political figure says something racist about large portions of his constituency!"

Amadan said:

I'm dubious about calling a black person racist for using inflammatory language about another black person. Insulting, yes. Racist? Not sure that follows.

Thaddeus Matthews's words are not really new in either sentiment or tone. You can disagree with both his opinions and how he presented them, but vitriolic references to "house slaves" go all the way back to Frederick Douglas.

And I'm even more dubious about all the white people who seize on outbursts like this and wave it about triumphantly going "Where's your outrage now, librulz? Why, you should be just as angry when an obscure black DJ goes off on another black person as when a major national political figure says something racist about large portions of his constituency!"

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Ditto. I'm not saying he's not wrong, but this isn't really on the same level as Michael Richard's outburst or that news reporter who called those basketball girls nappy headed ho's.

Now, his phrasing was wrong, but I completely understand what he means. House nigger isn't new, nor is "acting white".

And, this being Fox, it's very telling as to why they're the only paper reporting this. The comments are even more telling, and more racist, than what this dude said.

Nexus said:

"He is not racist because he is black and saying this to another black person." - That feels like a weak pillar to stand on.

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Eh, no. That's not what I'm saying. Nor do I think that's what Amadan is saying. I've heard his kind of commentary before, and, when used against a black person from a black person, it's not intended to be "racist".

Do you know what shucking and jiving is? Do you know what an Uncle Tom is? Now, his comment is racist in that he's insinuating that you can "act" white, or that "acting" white is bad, but you, and Fox News, have blown it completely out of proportion by not understanding the context.


ETA: I dunno, this doesn't really bother me. And I've been told that I "act" white before, even by my parents. It's kind of a joke in certain circles -- you know, you like the Beatles, you speak a certain way, etc... I don't exactly see Aaron McGruder getting the same kind of flack for having his characters say the exact same thing almost every episode of The Boondocks. Doesn't make it right, but I'm just not seeing the need for the level of outrage that commentators on the site are expressing (calling Obama, Jesse Jackson, and Sharpton racists, as if they're suddenly members of the black KKK).

Actually there are blacks who are racist or prejudiced against other blacks. It's unlikely but it can happen. However, this wasn't necessarily a racist rant. I mean I'm familiar with his commentary as well, and Amaden and thebloodfiend made some good points.

Nexus said:

I understand the context, it just seems that I don't agree with the common view on how this should be taken. I am not flipping out or anything. I just find it all quite sad. That's all.

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First you take issue with "African-American" and now this? C'mon now.

I understand Amadan's point. Starting a thread to specifically talk about the use of the term African-American when there are other Americans who attach their ancestry (culture?) to the word American (e.g., Hispanic American, Italian American)...I don't know, it doesn't sit right with my sensibilities. Then this thread where you grab on to the "whiteness" comment and not the other horrible comments.

Nexus said:

I'm not sure what is wrong with my discussion about the "African-American" topic or this one. Other than differing opinions. But that's how the world turns.

If it helps to understand. I am white, and I am somewhat saddened by the inequality of how racism is handled. I take an active interest in that point, and thus wanted to discuss the topics (in my other thread and this one - however specific that topic would be).

My intent is to offer an uncommon opinion (for that it is hard to be sorry for as long as it is resonable). I hope my justifications are not offensive. I feel like I've been pretty reasonable, if only opinionated.

And I don't feel like anyone else has been offensive in their justifications for all this. I posted it for debate or opinions. And opinions will differ.

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That's all fine but in your other thread it seemed like you only have issues with "Africa American" but not "Asia American" "Latino American" etc. I mean we're a nation of immigrants the natives make up the smallest percentage of this country's population. Yes, we're Americans but our lineage starts somewhere else not here. I respectfully disagree with your opinion on this matter and appreciate you for stating it, but if you're not familiar with the man's commentary how can you be so objective towards it?

Okay, yeah, I read the whole article. What really caught my eye was this:

She also said donations to her campaign have spiked since the incident.

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There's gotta be a name for this type of phenomenon already, perhaps the "Komen/Planned-Parenthood Effect."

Nexus said:

That would be taken out of context. I said that I hardly hear people called Irish-American or Asian-American in every day conversation. To argue would be derailing this thread. But I'd be interested if you could show me where I say that. PM if you would.

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I just checked the other thread again and reread your post so I apologize if you were offended. I stand corrected. It may come off that way to some, but I see your point somewhat. I do understand where you're coming from on the matter of "Some of that whiteness might rub off on me" comment. I mean, I've been told countless times that I act white, and to me that's just silly. I mean my father is white, and his opinion on that comment differs from my mother who identifies as being black. I don't know maybe I'm being naive, but I just don't see that as being racist. I listen to his shows on the radio and they're geared towards African Americans. The topics he discusses may be controversial and no I don't agree with everything he says, but sometimes he makes good points.

Nexus said:

That would be taken out of context. I said that I hardly hear people called Irish-American or Asian-American in every day conversation. To argue would be derailing this thread. But I'd be interested if you could show me where I say that. PM me with the lines. Because if did actually say that, I'd need to know so I can call myself stupid.

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In every day conversation we'll say Italian, Irish, Chinese, Hispanic. Seems like African American is far more accurate than any of those. Yet, you focused only on African American.

If it helps to understand. I am white, and I am somewhat saddened by the inequality of how racism is handled.

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The combination of the two threads you started show your intent clearly. You did not have to spell it out.

lol fox "news"

Nexus said:

If it helps to understand. I am white,

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I don't think there was any doubt about that.

(Btw, I am also very much of the pale male persuasion.)

and I am somewhat saddened by the inequality of how racism is handled. I take an active interest in that point, and thus wanted to discuss the topics (in my other thread and this one - however specific that topic would be).

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Yes, it's very sad that a black man saying inflammatory things about another black person isn't treated as being equal to racist things said by white people.

Here's the thing: you sound like that white dude who's always jumping into threads about racial issues with examples of how white people are persecuted too, or Asians can be racist too, or the dude who can't ever let a thread about rape pass without making sure everyone knows that men can be raped too and women can be rapists too and why aren't we paying just as much attention to that?

As an Asian growing up as a minority in Singapore where the Chinese form nearly 80% of the population and the native Malays form less than 10%, I am somewhat detached from the racist aspect of this interview.

What I find appalling and totally unacceptable is how a person can speak to another human being in such a manner. She was obviously a guest on his show, so the least she deserved was some respect.

Regardless of her affiliations, and maybe she really isn't looking out for the needs of the Blacks but still, he should have been more civil.

To me, the deejay came across as nothing more than a bitter, angry low-life and the politician was pure grace and class, as evidenced by how she ended the "conversation" and by extending her hand as she left the show. To me, she is the bigger person.

The DJ does not deserve the limelight.

The fact that she is A. A member of the Tea Party and B. Wants to use the interview to "prove" something about liberals indicates that they are both shitty people and should probably go on with the hate sex.

Oh,dear.

He went to the left with her. Being a guest of his show,she should have been given common courtesy and as we say down South,he should have displayed some home training.

Without turning this into the realm of politics,this is pretty mild for the treatment Black conservatives receive.

With regard to Nexus,I am of the same mind as other posters. Please remember what this forum is for. It is NOT intended for any one to seize on every topic related to POC and bring it here for discussion and question us about our feelings towards it.
First,you didn't understand why Blacks claim African American as an identity. We explained our various reasons. Now this topic concerning intra-racism.

Again,please read the sticky and remember what this forum is for.

Thanks.

Purple Rose said:

As an Asian growing up as a minority in Singapore where the Chinese form nearly 80% of the population and the native Malays form less than 10%, I am somewhat detached from the racist aspect of this interview.

What I find appalling and totally unacceptable is how a person can speak to another human being in such a manner. She was obviously a guest on his show, so the least she deserved was some respect.

Regardless of her affiliations, and maybe she really isn't looking out for the needs of the Blacks but still, he should have been more civil.

To me, the deejay came across as nothing more than a bitter, angry low-life and the politician was pure grace and class, as evidenced by how she ended the "conversation" and by extending her hand as she left the show. To me, she is the bigger person.

The DJ does not deserve the limelight.

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I don't think he should get the limelight either; however, the interview is being taken way out of context in terms of it being "racist" it's inflammatory but it isn't racist in my opinion. And what about the other comments that were made? I don't think they should slide either. But what you said, I agree with.

Okay, I'm white, so I don't think I have a whole lot of experience to be commenting on this. But I am a historian, too, and have studied race relations and such.

I really think it's a bad idea to use a "one size fits all" approach to judging racism. I could go into a long explanation, but I don't have time and I think other people could explain it better anyway. But basically, racism is bad because of the harmful effects, and when the harmful effects are different, manifestations of racism should be viewed differently.

Essentially, this guy making the little "whiteness" comment might be prejudiced, but I seriously doubt a single white person anywhere felt seriously hurt by it, and I'm positive it didn't aggravate existing, serious anti-white persecution. Anti-white racism just isn't a serious civil rights issue. Whereas if he'd been a white DJ talking about black people, it'd be much worse, because anti-black racism is still a very serious civil rights issue.

Yes, the DJ was rude. But there's context behind this argument, stuff that goes back hundreds of years, and stuff that Frederick Douglass and many others long before him talked about. Stuff revolving around legitimate grievances. Stuff that the average black person has more personal experience with than almost any white person, and stuff that the average black person knows more about historically than the average white person, and stuff that both politically and emotionally affects a black person more than it could ever affect a white person.

I mean, I did a M.A. paper on resistance to school desegregation in my county. And one article I found was a black man speaking on behalf of the white racist segregationists and saying some of the most pathetic, anti-black racist bullshit I've ever seen. For a more reason story, see the P&CE thread about the conservative black pastor who said non-conservative black people should be enslaved. Overall, there's some very legitimate grievances to be had against that type of person.

And while I suppose that may lead to some overreactions against anyone who seems to be that way, and probably does make the "Uncle Tom" accusation an effective way to slur someone, it's not my place to judge that. I'm not black, and I don't have the personal experience to make that determination.

However, I am a transsexual lesbian, and there are similar issues in the LGBT community, complicated things that most straight and/or cisgender people won't know much about or have a personal stake in. Very different from this particular situation, but that's not my point.

My point is that if a non-LGBT person read about one of the internal LGBT debates that got heated, and decided to come into the QUILTBAG forum and try to tell us what we should think about it, without themselves understanding all the history and subtleties behind it, I'd be pretty annoyed. And if they then said that they're just presenting an "uncommon opinion" and don't care what actual LGBT people think about that, I'd be more annoyed. And I could certainly imagine that person getting kicked out of the forum.

So, basically, Nexus, I don't think you understand how you're coming off here. If you honestly mean well, I recommend either doing a lot of academic research on the subject, enough to understand why it's very complicated and can't just be reduced to a few facile quips about "racism is racism" from outsiders with little experience. Or more easily, just accept that it's not your area of expertise and back off when people in that community say you're coming across as problematic.

I hope I don't get in trouble with the mods for calling Nexus out like this. I just think I might can understand some of the problem with people commenting on identity group issues they don't understand. Because I used to do it before I knew I was LGBT, and before I took years of classes focused on the issue and learned just how complicated the stuff was. And then I had those classes, and then I accepted I was trans and quickly got immersed in LGBT culture and internal conflicts (which I still don't fully understand because of my youth and relative inexperience).

So, um, I kinda understand why someone who isn't a member of a group might want to try to clumsily understand and end up making statements based on very limited experience. And I also understand just how obnoxious that can be when you're on the other side. So that's why I'm talking about this.

And I very much apologize if I just helped derail a thread on black issues with a long post on fixing white issues. It just kinda seemed to me that the undertone of those white issues had kinda influenced this thread from the beginning. (Especially with Fox News being involved, and all.)