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Nexus
02-04-2012, 12:41 AM
DJ goes on racist rant.

I tried to find an article on this that was not written by fox news. As fox news tends to annoy me.

Couldn't find any. This is self explanatory. Pretty sad. It says more about the media than anything else.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/03/outrage-subdued-after-dj-gop-congressional-candidate/

Sam K.
02-04-2012, 12:52 AM
Wow, I cannot believe this wasn't reported more widely! I'm genuinely shocked at the media.

Amadan
02-04-2012, 01:02 AM
I'm dubious about calling a black person racist for using inflammatory language about another black person. Insulting, yes. Racist? Not sure that follows.

Thaddeus Matthews's words are not really new in either sentiment or tone. You can disagree with both his opinions and how he presented them, but vitriolic references to "house slaves" go all the way back to Frederick Douglas.

And I'm even more dubious about all the white people who seize on outbursts like this and wave it about triumphantly going "Where's your outrage now, librulz? Why, you should be just as angry when an obscure black DJ goes off on another black person as when a major national political figure says something racist about large portions of his constituency!"

thebloodfiend
02-04-2012, 01:15 AM
I'm dubious about calling a black person racist for using inflammatory language about another black person. Insulting, yes. Racist? Not sure that follows.

Thaddeus Matthews's words are not really new in either sentiment or tone. You can disagree with both his opinions and how he presented them, but vitriolic references to "house slaves" go all the way back to Frederick Douglas.

And I'm even more dubious about all the white people who seize on outbursts like this and wave it about triumphantly going "Where's your outrage now, librulz? Why, you should be just as angry when an obscure black DJ goes off on another black person as when a major national political figure says something racist about large portions of his constituency!"

Ditto. I'm not saying he's not wrong, but this isn't really on the same level as Michael Richard's outburst or that news reporter who called those basketball girls nappy headed ho's.

Now, his phrasing was wrong, but I completely understand what he means. House nigger isn't new, nor is "acting white".

And, this being Fox, it's very telling as to why they're the only paper reporting this. The comments are even more telling, and more racist, than what this dude said.

Nexus
02-04-2012, 01:56 AM
But it seems to be attacking her race, and her political opinions are the root of that attack. It isn't the same as typical racism. But in my book, any attack on someone's race is racism. Seems to fit the definition.

And just because the person making the insults is of the same race doesn't make them any less venomous. It is a pretty sad state, in my opinion, when someone is judged not by what he says, but by his skin color.

"He is not racist because he is black and saying this to another black person." - That feels like a weak pillar to stand on.

I identify as a democrat, but I don't buy that kind of talk. It might be because I am a bad person, or naive, but if that is the cost of holding people accountable for their hate - then I am happy being "bad" and "naive"(Should that opinion ever arise).

thebloodfiend
02-04-2012, 02:02 AM
"He is not racist because he is black and saying this to another black person." - That feels like a weak pillar to stand on.

Eh, no. That's not what I'm saying. Nor do I think that's what Amadan is saying. I've heard his kind of commentary before, and, when used against a black person from a black person, it's not intended to be "racist".

Do you know what shucking and jiving is? Do you know what an Uncle Tom is? Now, his comment is racist in that he's insinuating that you can "act" white, or that "acting" white is bad, but you, and Fox News, have blown it completely out of proportion by not understanding the context.


ETA: I dunno, this doesn't really bother me. And I've been told that I "act" white before, even by my parents. It's kind of a joke in certain circles -- you know, you like the Beatles, you speak a certain way, etc... I don't exactly see Aaron McGruder getting the same kind of flack for having his characters say the exact same thing almost every episode of The Boondocks. Doesn't make it right, but I'm just not seeing the need for the level of outrage that commentators on the site are expressing (calling Obama, Jesse Jackson, and Sharpton racists, as if they're suddenly members of the black KKK).

Nexus
02-04-2012, 02:13 AM
Eh, no. That's not what I'm saying. Nor do I think that's what Amadan is saying. I've heard his kind of commentary before, and, when used against a black person from a black person, it's not intended to be "racist".

Do you know what shucking and jiving is? Do you know what an Uncle Tom is? Now, his comment is racist in that he's insinuating that you can "act" white, or that "acting" white is bad, but you, and Fox News, have blown it completely out of proportion by not understanding the context.

I understand the context, it just seems that I don't agree with the common view on how this should be taken. I am not flipping out or anything. I just find it all quite sad. That's all.

FoamyRules
02-04-2012, 02:48 AM
Actually there are blacks who are racist or prejudiced against other blacks. It's unlikely but it can happen. However, this wasn't necessarily a racist rant. I mean I'm familiar with his commentary as well, and Amaden and thebloodfiend made some good points.

Amadan
02-04-2012, 02:58 AM
I understand the context, it just seems that I don't agree with the common view on how this should be taken. I am not flipping out or anything. I just find it all quite sad. That's all.


First you take issue with "African-American" and now this? C'mon now.

Nexus
02-04-2012, 03:25 AM
First you take issue with "African-American" and now this? C'mon now.

Concern is not the same, necessarily, as having ruffled feathers.

And I think a hate filled speech can hardly be compared to my thread on the term "African-American".

escritora
02-04-2012, 03:47 AM
I understand Amadan's point. Starting a thread to specifically talk about the use of the term African-American when there are other Americans who attach their ancestry (culture?) to the word American (e.g., Hispanic American, Italian American)...I don't know, it doesn't sit right with my sensibilities. Then this thread where you grab on to the "whiteness" comment and not the other horrible comments.

Nexus
02-04-2012, 03:51 AM
I understand Amadan's point. Starting a thread to specifically talk about the use of the term African-American when there are other Americans who attach their ancestry (culture?) to the word American (e.g., Hispanic American, Italian American)...I don't know, it doesn't sit right with my sensibilities. Then this thread where you grab on to the "whiteness" comment and not the other horrible comments.

I'm not sure what is wrong with my discussion about the "African-American" topic or this one. Other than differing opinions. But that's how the world turns.

If it helps to understand. I am white, and I am somewhat saddened by the inequality of how racism is handled. I take an active interest in that point, and thus wanted to discuss the topics (in my other thread and this one - however specific that topic would be).

My intent is to offer an uncommon opinion (for that it is hard to be sorry for as long as it is resonable). I hope my justifications are not offensive. I feel like I've been pretty reasonable, if only opinionated.

And I don't feel like anyone else has been offensive in their justifications for all this. I posted it for debate or opinions. And opinions will differ.

FoamyRules
02-04-2012, 04:06 AM
I'm not sure what is wrong with my discussion about the "African-American" topic or this one. Other than differing opinions. But that's how the world turns.

If it helps to understand. I am white, and I am somewhat saddened by the inequality of how racism is handled. I take an active interest in that point, and thus wanted to discuss the topics (in my other thread and this one - however specific that topic would be).

My intent is to offer an uncommon opinion (for that it is hard to be sorry for as long as it is resonable). I hope my justifications are not offensive. I feel like I've been pretty reasonable, if only opinionated.

And I don't feel like anyone else has been offensive in their justifications for all this. I posted it for debate or opinions. And opinions will differ.
That's all fine but in your other thread it seemed like you only have issues with "Africa American" but not "Asia American" "Latino American" etc. I mean we're a nation of immigrants the natives make up the smallest percentage of this country's population. Yes, we're Americans but our lineage starts somewhere else not here. I respectfully disagree with your opinion on this matter and appreciate you for stating it, but if you're not familiar with the man's commentary how can you be so objective towards it?

Nexus
02-04-2012, 04:10 AM
That's all fine but in your other thread it seemed like you only have issues with "Africa American" but not "Asia American" "Latino American" etc. I mean we're a nation of immigrants the natives make up the smallest percentage of this country's population. Yes, we're Americans but our lineage starts somewhere else not here. I respectfully disagree with your opinion on this matter and appreciate you for stating it, but if you're not familiar with the man's commentary how can you be so objective towards it?

That would be taken out of context. I said that I hardly hear people called Irish-American or Asian-American in every day conversation. To argue would be derailing this thread. But I'd be interested if you could show me where I say that. PM me with the lines. Because if did actually say that, I'd need to know so I can call myself stupid.

benbradley
02-04-2012, 04:16 AM
Okay, yeah, I read the whole article. What really caught my eye was this:

She also said donations to her campaign have spiked since the incident.
There's gotta be a name for this type of phenomenon already, perhaps the "Komen/Planned-Parenthood Effect."

FoamyRules
02-04-2012, 04:18 AM
That would be taken out of context. I said that I hardly hear people called Irish-American or Asian-American in every day conversation. To argue would be derailing this thread. But I'd be interested if you could show me where I say that. PM if you would.
I just checked the other thread again and reread your post so I apologize if you were offended. I stand corrected. It may come off that way to some, but I see your point somewhat. I do understand where you're coming from on the matter of "Some of that whiteness might rub off on me" comment. I mean, I've been told countless times that I act white, and to me that's just silly. I mean my father is white, and his opinion on that comment differs from my mother who identifies as being black. I don't know maybe I'm being naive, but I just don't see that as being racist. I listen to his shows on the radio and they're geared towards African Americans. The topics he discusses may be controversial and no I don't agree with everything he says, but sometimes he makes good points.

escritora
02-04-2012, 04:51 AM
That would be taken out of context. I said that I hardly hear people called Irish-American or Asian-American in every day conversation. To argue would be derailing this thread. But I'd be interested if you could show me where I say that. PM me with the lines. Because if did actually say that, I'd need to know so I can call myself stupid.

In every day conversation we'll say Italian, Irish, Chinese, Hispanic. Seems like African American is far more accurate than any of those. Yet, you focused only on African American.


If it helps to understand. I am white, and I am somewhat saddened by the inequality of how racism is handled.

The combination of the two threads you started show your intent clearly. You did not have to spell it out.

missesdash
02-04-2012, 05:09 AM
lol fox "news"

Amadan
02-04-2012, 06:48 AM
If it helps to understand. I am white,

I don't think there was any doubt about that.

(Btw, I am also very much of the pale male persuasion.)


and I am somewhat saddened by the inequality of how racism is handled. I take an active interest in that point, and thus wanted to discuss the topics (in my other thread and this one - however specific that topic would be).

Yes, it's very sad that a black man saying inflammatory things about another black person isn't treated as being equal to racist things said by white people.

Here's the thing: you sound like that white dude who's always jumping into threads about racial issues with examples of how white people are persecuted too, or Asians can be racist too, or the dude who can't ever let a thread about rape pass without making sure everyone knows that men can be raped too and women can be rapists too and why aren't we paying just as much attention to that?

Nexus
02-04-2012, 07:53 AM
I don't think there was any doubt about that.

(Btw, I am also very much of the pale male persuasion.)



Yes, it's very sad that a black man saying inflammatory things about another black person isn't treated as being equal to racist things said by white people.

Here's the thing: you sound like that white dude who's always jumping into threads about racial issues with examples of how white people are persecuted too, or Asians can be racist too, or the dude who can't ever let a thread about rape pass without making sure everyone knows that men can be raped too and women can be rapists too and why aren't we paying just as much attention to that?

If that is your interpretation of me, you are welcome to it. Doesn't bother me. I am more interested in people's interpretation of the article and what was said.

Purple Rose
02-04-2012, 08:25 AM
As an Asian growing up as a minority in Singapore where the Chinese form nearly 80% of the population and the native Malays form less than 10%, I am somewhat detached from the racist aspect of this interview.

What I find appalling and totally unacceptable is how a person can speak to another human being in such a manner. She was obviously a guest on his show, so the least she deserved was some respect.

Regardless of her affiliations, and maybe she really isn't looking out for the needs of the Blacks but still, he should have been more civil.

To me, the deejay came across as nothing more than a bitter, angry low-life and the politician was pure grace and class, as evidenced by how she ended the "conversation" and by extending her hand as she left the show. To me, she is the bigger person.

The DJ does not deserve the limelight.

missesdash
02-04-2012, 08:34 AM
The fact that she is A. A member of the Tea Party and B. Wants to use the interview to "prove" something about liberals indicates that they are both shitty people and should probably go on with the hate sex.

Kitty27
02-04-2012, 09:41 AM
Oh,dear.

He went to the left with her. Being a guest of his show,she should have been given common courtesy and as we say down South,he should have displayed some home training.

Without turning this into the realm of politics,this is pretty mild for the treatment Black conservatives receive.

With regard to Nexus,I am of the same mind as other posters. Please remember what this forum is for. It is NOT intended for any one to seize on every topic related to POC and bring it here for discussion and question us about our feelings towards it.
First,you didn't understand why Blacks claim African American as an identity. We explained our various reasons. Now this topic concerning intra-racism.

Again,please read the sticky and remember what this forum is for.

Thanks.

FoamyRules
02-04-2012, 09:41 AM
As an Asian growing up as a minority in Singapore where the Chinese form nearly 80% of the population and the native Malays form less than 10%, I am somewhat detached from the racist aspect of this interview.

What I find appalling and totally unacceptable is how a person can speak to another human being in such a manner. She was obviously a guest on his show, so the least she deserved was some respect.

Regardless of her affiliations, and maybe she really isn't looking out for the needs of the Blacks but still, he should have been more civil.

To me, the deejay came across as nothing more than a bitter, angry low-life and the politician was pure grace and class, as evidenced by how she ended the "conversation" and by extending her hand as she left the show. To me, she is the bigger person.

The DJ does not deserve the limelight.
I don't think he should get the limelight either; however, the interview is being taken way out of context in terms of it being "racist" it's inflammatory but it isn't racist in my opinion. And what about the other comments that were made? I don't think they should slide either. But what you said, I agree with.

Mara
02-04-2012, 06:52 PM
Okay, I'm white, so I don't think I have a whole lot of experience to be commenting on this. But I am a historian, too, and have studied race relations and such.

I really think it's a bad idea to use a "one size fits all" approach to judging racism. I could go into a long explanation, but I don't have time and I think other people could explain it better anyway. But basically, racism is bad because of the harmful effects, and when the harmful effects are different, manifestations of racism should be viewed differently.

Essentially, this guy making the little "whiteness" comment might be prejudiced, but I seriously doubt a single white person anywhere felt seriously hurt by it, and I'm positive it didn't aggravate existing, serious anti-white persecution. Anti-white racism just isn't a serious civil rights issue. Whereas if he'd been a white DJ talking about black people, it'd be much worse, because anti-black racism is still a very serious civil rights issue.

Yes, the DJ was rude. But there's context behind this argument, stuff that goes back hundreds of years, and stuff that Frederick Douglass and many others long before him talked about. Stuff revolving around legitimate grievances. Stuff that the average black person has more personal experience with than almost any white person, and stuff that the average black person knows more about historically than the average white person, and stuff that both politically and emotionally affects a black person more than it could ever affect a white person.

I mean, I did a M.A. paper on resistance to school desegregation in my county. And one article I found was a black man speaking on behalf of the white racist segregationists and saying some of the most pathetic, anti-black racist bullshit I've ever seen. For a more reason story, see the P&CE thread about the conservative black pastor who said non-conservative black people should be enslaved. Overall, there's some very legitimate grievances to be had against that type of person.

And while I suppose that may lead to some overreactions against anyone who seems to be that way, and probably does make the "Uncle Tom" accusation an effective way to slur someone, it's not my place to judge that. I'm not black, and I don't have the personal experience to make that determination.

However, I am a transsexual lesbian, and there are similar issues in the LGBT community, complicated things that most straight and/or cisgender people won't know much about or have a personal stake in. Very different from this particular situation, but that's not my point.

My point is that if a non-LGBT person read about one of the internal LGBT debates that got heated, and decided to come into the QUILTBAG forum and try to tell us what we should think about it, without themselves understanding all the history and subtleties behind it, I'd be pretty annoyed. And if they then said that they're just presenting an "uncommon opinion" and don't care what actual LGBT people think about that, I'd be more annoyed. And I could certainly imagine that person getting kicked out of the forum.

So, basically, Nexus, I don't think you understand how you're coming off here. If you honestly mean well, I recommend either doing a lot of academic research on the subject, enough to understand why it's very complicated and can't just be reduced to a few facile quips about "racism is racism" from outsiders with little experience. Or more easily, just accept that it's not your area of expertise and back off when people in that community say you're coming across as problematic.

I hope I don't get in trouble with the mods for calling Nexus out like this. I just think I might can understand some of the problem with people commenting on identity group issues they don't understand. Because I used to do it before I knew I was LGBT, and before I took years of classes focused on the issue and learned just how complicated the stuff was. And then I had those classes, and then I accepted I was trans and quickly got immersed in LGBT culture and internal conflicts (which I still don't fully understand because of my youth and relative inexperience).

So, um, I kinda understand why someone who isn't a member of a group might want to try to clumsily understand and end up making statements based on very limited experience. And I also understand just how obnoxious that can be when you're on the other side. So that's why I'm talking about this.

And I very much apologize if I just helped derail a thread on black issues with a long post on fixing white issues. It just kinda seemed to me that the undertone of those white issues had kinda influenced this thread from the beginning. (Especially with Fox News being involved, and all.)

Nexus
02-04-2012, 10:05 PM
Again,please read the sticky and remember what this forum is for.

Thanks.

Okay, sorry. After the thread about a black conservative calling for blacks to return to plantations, I didn't think this was too fringe to post.

I will try to stay in line in the future.

missesdash
02-04-2012, 10:13 PM
Okay, sorry. After the thread about a black conservative calling for blacks to return to plantations, I didn't think this was too fringe to post.

I will try to stay in line in the future.

Which thread is that?

escritora
02-04-2012, 10:14 PM
Okay, sorry. After the thread about a black conservative calling for blacks to return to plantations, I didn't think this was too fringe to post.

I will try to stay in line in the future.

When I first read your post I thought it was better suited for the Politics forum. Now that I read this, I realize you have the forums mixed up. If you meant to put this in the Politics forum, you can ask a mod to move it there.

escritora
02-04-2012, 10:15 PM
Which thread is that?

This one in the Politics forum: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235694

FoamyRules
02-05-2012, 01:57 AM
Okay, I'm white, so I don't think I have a whole lot of experience to be commenting on this. But I am a historian, too, and have studied race relations and such.

I really think it's a bad idea to use a "one size fits all" approach to judging racism. I could go into a long explanation, but I don't have time and I think other people could explain it better anyway. But basically, racism is bad because of the harmful effects, and when the harmful effects are different, manifestations of racism should be viewed differently.

Essentially, this guy making the little "whiteness" comment might be prejudiced, but I seriously doubt a single white person anywhere felt seriously hurt by it, and I'm positive it didn't aggravate existing, serious anti-white persecution. Anti-white racism just isn't a serious civil rights issue. Whereas if he'd been a white DJ talking about black people, it'd be much worse, because anti-black racism is still a very serious civil rights issue.

Yes, the DJ was rude. But there's context behind this argument, stuff that goes back hundreds of years, and stuff that Frederick Douglass and many others long before him talked about. Stuff revolving around legitimate grievances. Stuff that the average black person has more personal experience with than almost any white person, and stuff that the average black person knows more about historically than the average white person, and stuff that both politically and emotionally affects a black person more than it could ever affect a white person.

I mean, I did a M.A. paper on resistance to school desegregation in my county. And one article I found was a black man speaking on behalf of the white racist segregationists and saying some of the most pathetic, anti-black racist bullshit I've ever seen. For a more reason story, see the P&CE thread about the conservative black pastor who said non-conservative black people should be enslaved. Overall, there's some very legitimate grievances to be had against that type of person.

And while I suppose that may lead to some overreactions against anyone who seems to be that way, and probably does make the "Uncle Tom" accusation an effective way to slur someone, it's not my place to judge that. I'm not black, and I don't have the personal experience to make that determination.

However, I am a transsexual lesbian, and there are similar issues in the LGBT community, complicated things that most straight and/or cisgender people won't know much about or have a personal stake in. Very different from this particular situation, but that's not my point.

My point is that if a non-LGBT person read about one of the internal LGBT debates that got heated, and decided to come into the QUILTBAG forum and try to tell us what we should think about it, without themselves understanding all the history and subtleties behind it, I'd be pretty annoyed. And if they then said that they're just presenting an "uncommon opinion" and don't care what actual LGBT people think about that, I'd be more annoyed. And I could certainly imagine that person getting kicked out of the forum.

So, basically, Nexus, I don't think you understand how you're coming off here. If you honestly mean well, I recommend either doing a lot of academic research on the subject, enough to understand why it's very complicated and can't just be reduced to a few facile quips about "racism is racism" from outsiders with little experience. Or more easily, just accept that it's not your area of expertise and back off when people in that community say you're coming across as problematic.

I hope I don't get in trouble with the mods for calling Nexus out like this. I just think I might can understand some of the problem with people commenting on identity group issues they don't understand. Because I used to do it before I knew I was LGBT, and before I took years of classes focused on the issue and learned just how complicated the stuff was. And then I had those classes, and then I accepted I was trans and quickly got immersed in LGBT culture and internal conflicts (which I still don't fully understand because of my youth and relative inexperience).

So, um, I kinda understand why someone who isn't a member of a group might want to try to clumsily understand and end up making statements based on very limited experience. And I also understand just how obnoxious that can be when you're on the other side. So that's why I'm talking about this.

And I very much apologize if I just helped derail a thread on black issues with a long post on fixing white issues. It just kinda seemed to me that the undertone of those white issues had kinda influenced this thread from the beginning. (Especially with Fox News being involved, and all.)
That was a very well said and thought out response. Thank you for this :)

Nexus
02-05-2012, 03:08 AM
This one in the Politics forum: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235694

That would be where I meant to post it. I thought that post was in this forum. Totally my fault.

ViolettaVane
02-05-2012, 08:29 PM
I'll just lay it right out. I think white people should stay out of judging black people judging other black people. Unless perhaps they can present a well-informed, educated, detached, sociological point of view on the subject.

I feel the same way about issues of Asian cross-ethnic bigotry or internalized racism. If you're non-white, non-Asian, think hard before jumping in, because you might not understand the context. And if you're white, you should probably stay out of it because you almost certainly don't understand the context.

Nexus
02-05-2012, 09:31 PM
I'll just lay it right out. I think white people should stay out of judging black people judging other black people. Unless perhaps they can present a well-informed, educated, detached, sociological point of view on the subject.

I feel the same way about issues of Asian cross-ethnic bigotry or internalized racism. If you're non-white, non-Asian, think hard before jumping in, because you might not understand the context. And if you're white, you should probably stay out of it because you almost certainly don't understand the context.

Hate doesn't need context. If someone says something that hateful, regardless of racial context, I have a right to be a little angry at the person.

Your use of context comes off as an excuse. What could possibly justify acting this way towards someone. I don't care what the racial impact or undertones are.

Basically you are saying, whether you mean it or not, is that white people don't have a valid opinion because they are white. Thanks. I am bowing out of this thread because you managed to take an interesting discussion and turn it in a bad direction.

Amadan
02-05-2012, 09:56 PM
Hate doesn't need context. If someone says something that hateful, regardless of racial context, I have a right to be a little angry at the person.

Your use of context comes off as an excuse. What could possibly justify acting this way towards someone. I don't care what the racial impact or undertones are.

Basically you are saying, whether you mean it or not, is that white people don't have a valid opinion because they are white. Thanks. I am bowing out of this thread because you managed to take an interesting discussion and turn it in a bad direction.


Dude, seriously. Someone needs to take that shovel away from you.

missesdash
02-05-2012, 09:56 PM
Hate doesn't need context. If someone says something that hateful, regardless of racial context, I have a right to be a little angry at the person.

Your use of context comes off as an excuse. What could possibly justify acting this way towards someone. I don't care what the racial impact or undertones are.

Basically you are saying, whether you mean it or not, is that white people don't have a valid opinion because they are white. Thanks. I am bowing out of this thread because you managed to take an interesting discussion and turn it in a bad direction.

That loud noise was the sonic boom created as Violetta's post flew right over your head.

backslashbaby
02-05-2012, 10:13 PM
I don't know, Nexus. Are you asking in a humble and honestly concerned/curious way? I think there needs to be room for discussions like those, if possible, so understanding takes place.

But those are the first things you are concerned about? You don't want to jump in and give support on so many of the other threads? You have no thoughts on white against PoC racism, but many thoughts on kinds that don't make white folks look bad?

That looks bad at a minimum, and you might examine why it came out that way.

Corinne Duyvis
02-05-2012, 10:44 PM
Basically you are saying, whether you mean it or not, is that white people don't have a valid opinion because they are white. Thanks. I am bowing out of this thread because you managed to take an interesting discussion and turn it in a bad direction.

True. White people don't have a valid opinion on these matters because it's not our business--more importantly, it's not our experiences. That's just plain logic. I won't attach much value to outsiders' opinions on Dutch politics, or a Dutch person's opinions on my English skills, because I take into account where they're coming from.

That you don't see how someone's background and experiences might impact how valuable their opinions are, especially with regards to race, which is incredibly complicated and where history influences everything, just shows that you have a lot of 101 to read up on. That's totally fine. We all have to start somewhere. But please don't come up here, start complicated discussions, then storm off in a huff when people point out that you don't have all the information.

Kitty27
02-06-2012, 12:00 AM
Violetta and Corinne have done it all.

I can add no more.

Thanks,guys.

FoamyRules
02-06-2012, 03:40 AM
I don't know, Nexus. Are you asking in a humble and honestly concerned/curious way? I think there needs to be room for discussions like those, if possible, so understanding takes place.

But those are the first things you are concerned about? You don't want to jump in and give support on so many of the other threads? You have no thoughts on white against PoC racism, but many thoughts on kinds that don't make white folks look bad?

That looks bad at a minimum, and you might examine why it came out that way.
^This!

Mara
02-06-2012, 03:46 AM
Dude, seriously. Someone needs to take that shovel away from you.

Seriously, it's like a super power or something.

"God made me a damn good shoveller." -The Shoveller, Mystery Men

crunchyblanket
02-06-2012, 04:18 PM
True. White people don't have a valid opinion on these matters because it's not our business--more importantly, it's not our experiences. That's just plain logic. I won't attach much value to outsiders' opinions on Dutch politics, or a Dutch person's opinions on my English skills, because I take into account where they're coming from.


This, in bucketloads.

Psychomacologist
02-06-2012, 04:37 PM
I don't care what the racial impact or undertones are.

That pretty much says it all, really.

DMac
02-08-2012, 03:36 PM
Why do I do this? I walk along, happy and care free. Then BLAM, I decide I like the taste of my own toes so I stick my foot in my mouth.
Just so everyone will know where to jump on me, I am a member of the most discriminated against group in this country, I am a male WASP. Laugh all you want but when was the last time that a law was passed that said that another person had to be hired before you no matter if they are qualified or not, just because of the group they identify with? I could go on but won’t. I also happen to be a Tea Party Conservative Republican. But above all of that, and what I identify with the most, I am a Christian human.
I read the article, I was offended. I was offended by the “whiteness” comment because he indicated that being white was somehow degrading. I have read some of the comments on this thread, and I am offended. But I have read the Constitution of the United States, the Bill of Rights (only because my butt is in the US) and the Bible. No where in any of these documents does it say I have the right not to be offended. In fact the Bible says I will be offended and reviled for my faith.
What the DJ did and said was wrong. The assumption that all black people must be Democratic Liberals, is wrong. The assumption that all Tea Party Conservatives are white supremacists or their subservient token “other” race, is wrong. To be mad at me for something that someone else in history did, is wrong.
I made a comment to a post once. The host asked when will people stop thinking of skin color first. My comment was, “When you stop.” I do have a confession to make, I think of skin color quite a bit. I envy those with dark brown skin. You can wear colors that just look plain old stupid on my beige hide. I am a hunter. You have a leg up on me in the camouflage area. I stand out like a neon sign in the forest, unless I paint my skin. For those with kinky hair, I feel your pain, literally. So I envy my Asian brothers and sisters with hair straight and silky. I could go on and on but won’t.
When I hear comments about a group of people, no matter who or in what direction, the first thing I do is reverse it. If it was said by a purple person against a green one, I think of it in reverse. How does that make me feel? How would it make them feel? To bring this back to the original post, I interview Vanilla Ice or Eminem and ask them where their loyalty to the white race is. I ask them are they just the token black rappers. I refuse to shake hands in fear that their “blackness” would rub off on me. Personally, I would find that offensive. And I would be willing to bet so would many of you. I also find it offensive that the only outlet that called this man out on his racial comments was The Fox New network who “tends to annoy” you or is a laughing point.
Now before I am dismissed as an outsider who is trying “to clumsily understand” the subtleties of the situation, or just jumping in to tell how I am discriminated against, let me explain. I have taken the trip around the sun 50 times so far. Until the age of 17 I only knew two black girls at my school (the only ones there). They started out teasing me but ended up being very nice to me. My parents were the most bigoted people I had ever met. I learned to be just like them. I then joined the Army after school. THAT is a melting pot. I learned quickly what mattered, their rank and would they have my back in a fight. I also figured out that my parents were wrong out of ignorance. I grew up dirt poor from a long line of dirt poor. So I seriously doubt if any of my ancestors owned anyone, even themselves at times. As cliché as it sounds, one of the dearest and most honorable men I know happens to be very dark brown, borderline true black. No, I have never spent time in a brown person’s skin. I have wanted to for the above stated reasons. I also happen to think that non-white ladies (generalizing here) are more attractive. (Off topic and just sayin’) I have seen the gambit of racism from all sides toward all sides but not near as much as is talked about. Heck, I just expressed some of it. But when it is mixed with hate, in any form, it is toxic and should not be tolerated. I may be "white" (I prefer biege, it sounds sexier) but I have eyes and wisdom.
The lady shouldn’t be expected to champion “black” causes but all causes of the people who she represents, without distinction on race, religion or sexual orientation. Remember, a soul has no color.
Purple Rose, well said.
In case I show up in QUILTBAG and offer an opinion, I do have some personal experience there also.
I will be surprised if this post lasts 12 hours before it is deleted, but there it is.

Psychomacologist
02-08-2012, 04:16 PM
:popcorn:

Amadan
02-08-2012, 04:45 PM
:popcorn:

Pass me some. We're gonna need a big bowl.

Amadan
02-08-2012, 04:49 PM
Also - holy crap, I don't think I've ever seen someone not only score bingo but fill out the entire card with one post before.

DMac
02-08-2012, 04:57 PM
:partyguy: LOL, you guys are cool, I wanna party with you.
I'm sorry if I came off a little heavy.

Psychomacologist
02-08-2012, 05:20 PM
Also - holy crap, I don't think I've ever seen someone not only score bingo but fill out the entire card with one post before.

I know right?

*hands over popcorn bowl*

crunchyblanket
02-08-2012, 05:26 PM
I will be surprised if this post lasts 12 hours before it is deleted, but there it is.


Classic.

Amadan
02-08-2012, 05:48 PM
:partyguy: LOL, you guys are cool, I wanna party with you.
I'm sorry if I came off a little heavy.


We're not laughing with you. We're laughing at you.

alessahinlo
02-08-2012, 05:58 PM
Lord. Pass me some of that popcorn.

ViolettaVane
02-08-2012, 05:59 PM
"For those with kinky hair, I feel your pain, literally. So I envy my Asian brothers and sisters with hair straight and silky."

Oh. My. God.

Screencapping in case of deletion. Perhaps the most entertaining misuse of "literally" I have ever seen.

:e2fairy:

Maybe one day the magic minority fairy will grant you your silky-haired wish.

DMac
02-08-2012, 06:48 PM
Violetta, I have been wishing for that fairy to visit me for for 50 years, it either lost my address or the majic just wasn't strong enough. lol

Um, uh, *shuffles feet nervously* I failed high school English, twice. What did I do wrong? Not jokeing, if I made a mistake in grammer I am trying to learn from it. I'll take all of the help I can get.

crunchyblanket
02-08-2012, 06:53 PM
I was going to reply in detail to that post, but I'm just going to throw a couple of nice links your way and hope you get it.

Derailing for Dummies. (http://derailingfordummies.com/)

Privilege Bingo Cards (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3109/3185596402_18d49d5f62_o.jpg)

I fully encourage you to read these. They might illuminate you as to the hundreds of things wrong with your post.

missesdash
02-08-2012, 07:01 PM
I thought that post was a parody.

Still not sure if he was serious. Need to travel to this parallel dimension where white male, conservative Christians are "the most discriminated against group" in the US.

The fail is strong with this one.

Amadan
02-08-2012, 07:02 PM
Violetta, I have been wishing for that fairy to visit me for for 50 years, it either lost my address or the majic just wasn't strong enough. lol

Um, uh, *shuffles feet nervously* I failed high school English, twice. What did I do wrong? Not jokeing, if I made a mistake in grammer I am trying to learn from it. I'll take all of the help I can get.


I sense that you are sincere, which makes me almost feel bad for mocking you, but seriously, anyone who can unironically claim that it's so fucking hard to be a white man and that being a Christian conservative makes you an oppressed minority is so far beyond the Clue Horizon that I can only hope you will read the links crunchyblanket gave you and be one of the tiny fraction of your ilk in whom a spark of awareness might ignite.

ViolettaVane
02-08-2012, 07:22 PM
Bluntly? All humor aside? You did EVERYTHING wrong. Every. Single. Thing. That racist white people do to claim they're not racist while they're being racist and showing they have not a single ounce of REAL empathy.

White males being the group most discriminated against. The people who make the most money by all economic measures and have the most power by all political measures? It's whining. It's falsely claiming victimhood because you imagine victimhood gives you moral authenticity.

A lot of ludicrously irrelevant, insulting garbage about the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and Christianity. Many of us know these documents quite well. Many of us are proud to be Americans and/or Christians. Do you think you're proclaiming to the heathen masses, oh mighty whitey?

Imagining that people blame you for slavery. Nobody blames you for stupid stuff your ancestors did. They blame you for the stupid stuff you're doing NOW.


The host asked when will people stop thinking of skin color first. My comment was, “When you stop.”


"I know you are but what am I?"


I do have a confession to make, I think of skin color quite a bit.


Go to a therapist. You have a massive white guilt/resentment/entitlement complex.


I envy those with dark brown skin. You can wear colors that just look plain old stupid on my beige hide. I am a hunter. You have a leg up on me in the camouflage area. I stand out like a neon sign in the forest, unless I paint my skin. For those with kinky hair, I feel your pain, literally. So I envy my Asian brothers and sisters with hair straight and silky. I could go on and on but won’t.

Oh God. You have NO idea about the racism black people face and how much you have insulted them by saying this. I just... I can't even. And the hair. What do you think you'll accomplish by this? "Hey black people, your skin color means you'll be discriminated against, earn less than white people over the course of a lifetime... but hey, it's OK, you've got... NATURAL HUNTING CAMOUFLAGE! Cheer up!"

And you're not my brother.


"When I hear comments about a group of people, no matter who or in what direction, the first thing I do is reverse it. "

This is moronic. Your examples are moronic. Groups of people are not interchangeable. Let me give you an example. 1) A group of old white dudes at a bowling alley 2) two Asian guys in a souped-up Honda Civic 3) Madonna and her dancers 4) The Taliban.


Now before I am dismissed as an outsider who is trying “to clumsily understand” the subtleties of the situation"

Way too late. I already zoned out by the time "one of my best friends is black" came up. Oh, and, "even though your beauty is represented as not being worth as much as white women's, and you're pressured economically and socially into looking like white women, that's okay, ladies, cheer up, because THIS WHITE MAN would like to bone you!"

YAY THANKS!

missesdash
02-08-2012, 07:40 PM
@violetta

The whole "I find non-white women more attractive" was the kicker. Like OKAY LADIES, GET EXCITED CAUSE I THINK UR HOT. Oh geez, you totally can't be racist if you think I'm hot! I also honored that this white guy has validated me by commenting on the aesthetic appeal of non-white women in a thread about...

Fuck, what is this thread even about. Title should be changed to "epic race fails"

ViolettaVane
02-08-2012, 07:55 PM
Sigh.

Yeah... all those men jacking off to "ASIAN TEEN SLUTZ VOl. XIX" are really doing it for the anti-racism. Off-topic. Just sayin'.

DMac
02-08-2012, 08:11 PM
No Amadan, you are laughing with me, I can laugh at my own silliness.
Nope crunchyblaket, missed. I assume that I should be offended or stomp away mad rant and rave some more. I am sorry to disappoint you on that.
I know it was a long read and I didn't say things quite the way it would have been best. I am still learning this writing gig. Any similarities between your links and my post was purely unintentional. I do not claim to know the trials that a PoC goes through, only what I have seen in 50 years of a varied life. If you go back and read it you will see where I state just that. Derailing? Not hardly.
Let me state this without the long winded bull. The man showed rude racist actions and should be fired. I don't give a royal rats butt what color he or she is. I would call for the same action if my brother did the same thing to anyone here. Why is that so hard to understand or accept?
I still say souls have no color, and that is all that matters.
As for your bingo card, the only one I agree with or used is the middle one. What's so wrong with that? It would make for a better world.
I am not saying that racism, prejudice and discrimination do not go on in today’s world, just the opposite. I fight it in my own mind and heart all of the time. It's difficult to reprogram what you are taught as a child. But I do not limit those actions to any race, sex or political view, evil is everywhere. Especially in my own heart. When I say I am a Christian, I am not proclaiming perfection. I am saying I am flawed and need saved. But as we are all human, with the same flaws I know that capacity is in everyone. What comes out is what you choose to let out. Jesus said, "Do good to those who abuse you." That is one of the hardest things I have ever done and I don't always get it right. I would love to flame the lot of you, but that wouldn't be right either. Instead I choose to learn from this. I gave my heartfelt, ill-worded opinion and I stand by it. Racism, hate and elitism are wrong, no matter what wrapper you stick around it.

Medievalist
02-08-2012, 08:18 PM
"For those with kinky hair, I feel your pain, literally. So I envy my Asian brothers and sisters with hair straight and silky."

Oh. My. God.

Screencapping in case of deletion. Perhaps the most entertaining misuse of "literally" I have ever seen.

Yeah. No.

You'll note that there's a Report Post button. http://absolutewrite.com/forums/images/buttons/report.gif

Use it.

MacAllister
02-08-2012, 08:21 PM
I will be surprised if this post lasts 12 hours before it is deleted, but there it is.
Oh, I'll leave it. Whether or not the room mods leave it, too, I dunno -- but I'll back their decision, either way.

But DMac is alllllll finished posting in this room. And won't be posting in QUILTBAG, either.

As to the thread, what a useful little bit of troll-bait it's become.

Psychomacologist
02-08-2012, 08:24 PM
ETA: Dang mods beat me to the punch. Oh well.

DMac, if you want to know why you're causing offence, it's because you walked into the PoC room - the room for non-White AWers, the room for folks who face daily discrimination and marginalisation, the room for people who see themselves stereotyped and belittled in the media and on TV, people for whom discrimination and racism aren't academic concepts but daily realities - you walked into this room, for these people, and you said:


I am a member of the most discriminated against group in this country, I am a male WASP.

And so, in this context, your whole post sounds like:

HOLD THE FRONT PAGE PEOPLE! BUTTHURT MIGHTY WHITEY IS HERE!

thebloodfiend
02-08-2012, 08:27 PM
Wow. Do you want some race fail with that? I thought it was kind of an unspoken rule that we'd never ever pull the " I have (insert race/sexuality) friends" card.

I'm not even going to comment on the post. It would be a complete waste of my time.

ETA: Damn, why did I bother going to sleep? I missed the entire 3rd page. All I can say it that it would've been fucking hilarious if dMac actually made it over to the QUILTBAG forum.

Medievalist
02-08-2012, 08:36 PM
All I can say it that it would've been fucking hilarious if dMac actually made it over to the QUILTBAG forum.

Not so much, actually. It would have pissed me off even more, which, given my level of pissed-offedness at seeing this current infestation of idiocy I might have reached cruising altitude.

This was not how I wanted to start my day.

And I still haven't had any caffeine.

We're not kidding about the stickies (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232684).

I will note for the interested that I'm trying to figure out what classical rhetorical figure the "some of my best friends are" thing falls under. Please feel free to assist me in my research.

crunchyblanket
02-08-2012, 08:38 PM
I will note for the interested that I'm trying to figure out what classical rhetorical figure the "some of my best friends are" thing falls under. Please feel free to assist me in my research.


It's in the same category as 'I'm not racist, but....'

thebloodfiend
02-08-2012, 08:44 PM
It's in the same category as 'I'm not racist, but....'

Yep. I guess it's kind of like "well, since this (insert race here) person likes me, they agree with my thoughts, therefor, since one (insert race here) person agrees with me, I can't be racist." It's a really stupid, illogical train of though tbh. It's kind of like this:

I have scientist friends, therefor, I know all about quantum physics!

My friend had a baby, therefor, I know what it's like to be pregnant.It's really patronizing, too.

Medievalist
02-08-2012, 08:46 PM
Yep. I guess it's kind of like "well, since this (insert race here) person likes me, they agree with my thoughts, therefor, since one (insert race here) person agrees with me, I can't be racist." It's a really stupid, illogical train of though tbh. It's kind of like this: It's really patronizing, too.

It's an actual rhetorical figure though; with a name. One of the logical fallacies.

Damned if I can remember it though.

thebloodfiend
02-08-2012, 08:53 PM
It's an actual rhetorical figure though; with a name. One of the logical fallacies.

Damned if I can remember it though.

I'll probably remember at the end of the day. I took philosophy over the summer and we went over this on a test.

It's kind of like a combination between affirmation of the consequent and fallacy of composition. I will remember what this is called.

ETA: It's some kind of appeal. Wish I knew what appeal it was. Kind of a bandwagon fallacy, but not really. This will bother me if I don't find out.

Mara
02-08-2012, 09:24 PM
That was weird.

Medievalist
02-08-2012, 09:25 PM
ETA: It's some kind of appeal. Wish I knew what appeal it was. Kind of a bandwagon fallacy, but not really. This will bother me if I don't find out.

See?

Now you know how I feel . . . ;)

Mara
02-08-2012, 09:27 PM
I will note for the interested that I'm trying to figure out what classical rhetorical figure the "some of my best friends are" thing falls under. Please feel free to assist me in my research.

It _kinda_ sounds like "Appeal to Authority" to me, but I really don't know a lot of the subject. I'm sure there's something closer.

Although "assume every member of Minority Group X speaks for all Minority Group X because Those People Are All The Same" would definitely explain why members of minority groups would get "Appeal to Authority" invocations.

evilrooster
02-09-2012, 12:17 AM
It's an Appeal to Authority with a reverse No True Scotsman, leading into a double Salchow, finishing with a toe loop.

Most people fumble the landing.

backslashbaby
02-09-2012, 12:22 AM
It's an Appeal to Authority with a reverse No True Scotsman, leading into a double Salchow, finishing with a toe loop.

Most people fumble the landing.

:ROFL: :ROFL:

I give it a 9.7. I do sense some sincerity, so points lost for that.

FoamyRules
02-09-2012, 03:57 AM
Something told me DMac was a troll or maybe he wasn't. Who knows. I just decided to sit back and watch since everyone else summed it up for me. Oh and not that it matters but when he said the DJ should be fired for his remarks, he's not just the DJ of that radio station, he OWNS that station, so it'll kind of be hard and silly for him to fire himself.

escritora
02-09-2012, 04:05 AM
Something told me DMac was a troll or maybe he wasn't. Who knows. I just decided to sit back and watch since everyone else summed it up for me. Oh and not that it matters but when he said the DJ should be fired for his remarks, he's not just the DJ of that radio station, he OWNS that station, so it'll kind of be hard and silly for him to fire himself.

Since you're familiar with the DJ, I'd like to know if he normally treats his guests the way he did the politician.

FoamyRules
02-09-2012, 04:53 AM
Since you're familiar with the DJ, I'd like to know if he normally treats his guests the way he did the politician.
It depends on whether or not they agree with him. Since it is his station and is paying all of the bills he is very biased. Like I said in an earlier post, I don't agree with everything he says, but he does make some good points. Sometimes, he'll even go off on the people who call in like he'll tell them "Shut the hell up!" or he'll even disconnect them. That's just how he is, but despite that, it doesn't make it right. Do I think he was racist towards that politician, no. Rude and insulting, definitely.

escritora
02-09-2012, 05:05 AM
I ask because it was very difficult for me to watch the videos. I tried more than once and just couldn't finish. Supposed racist comments aside. His approach and demeanor are really off putting to me. So I wondered if that was his style. It seems like it is.

FoamyRules
02-09-2012, 05:32 AM
I ask because it was very difficult for me to watch the videos. I tried more than once and just couldn't finish. Supposed racist comments aside. His approach and demeanor are really off putting to me. So I wondered if that was his style. It seems like it is.
Oh, it is his style and yes it can be off putting so I do see what you mean. The only way he's staying on the air is because he owns the station. He's been kicked off of television and the radio before. The reason I'm familiar with him is because he lives in my city, and I see him a lot. My mother only listens to him for laughs though.

Celia Cyanide
02-09-2012, 09:43 PM
It depends on whether or not they agree with him. Since it is his station and is paying all of the bills he is very biased. Like I said in an earlier post, I don't agree with everything he says, but he does make some good points. Sometimes, he'll even go off on the people who call in like he'll tell them "Shut the hell up!" or he'll even disconnect them. That's just how he is, but despite that, it doesn't make it right. Do I think he was racist towards that politician, no. Rude and insulting, definitely.

Sounds like Bill O'Reilly.