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_Billy_
01-31-2012, 05:13 PM
Should we teach students the cursive writing (CV)? Presently more and more schools remove CV from the curriculum in favor of math, science and other skills.

Modern technology and computers are taking over. We use keyboards on all IT devices. Should we be worried? How will we sign our names in the future - with the electronic cards?


What's your thoughts on this?

randi.lee
01-31-2012, 05:15 PM
So many people use and continue to use cursive that I think students would be without if not taught it. The Japanese would be a mess if either katakana or hiragana was suddenly no longer taught.

Calla Lily
01-31-2012, 05:19 PM
My 16yo son can only sign his name in cursive. He admitted this weekend that he guesses at the cursive version of letters that aren't in his name.

This appalls me. They're taught basic cursive in 2nd or 3rd grade, and then it's dropped, like the kids know all they need to.

Katrina S. Forest
01-31-2012, 05:20 PM
Hirgana and katakana are way different than cursive though. They're more equivalent to the ABC's. First children learn hiragana, then katakana, then kanji, correct?

I agree cursive seems to be less and less in use, but it's still prevalent enough that I think it's something students need to learn. Would I mourn its loss if it dies out in my lifetime? Probably not.

Terie
01-31-2012, 05:20 PM
If this is your strategy for cranking up your post count to 50 in a mere two days, you're not making a good impression on the community.

The point of having people make 50 posts is to allow them to interact with the community and get familiar with who and what we are; it's not to bulk up the board with silly comments. I viewed your post history, and it's pretty obvious what you're doing.

(Please note that at the time I made this reply, the OP's sig read, 'Members with less than 50 posts won't be able to create new threads in Share Your Work rooms, yet. You can still comment on other people's work, though, and we encourage you to do so!')

Literateparakeet
01-31-2012, 05:26 PM
I tell my children that they need to learn it well enough to read it, and sign their name. Signatures, IMO, should be in cursive. Beyond that is left to their discretion.

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 05:33 PM
If this is your strategy for cranking up your post count to 50 in a mere two days, you're not making a good impression on the community.

The point of having people make 50 posts is to allow them to interact with the community and get familiar with who and what we are; it's not to bulk up the board with silly comments. I viewed your post history, and it's pretty obvious what you're doing.

(Please note that at the time I made this reply, the OP's sig read, 'Members with less than 50 posts won't be able to create new threads in Share Your Work rooms, yet. You can still comment on other people's work, though, and we encourage you to do so!')


Please try to focus on the topic. What do you think about CV?


P.S.
Hmm I think you are wrong about my 50 posts and some answers don't require long posts.


Do you like my sig now.

Nostro
01-31-2012, 05:39 PM
I never got to grips to cursive writing. My writing tends to look like that of a drunk doctor's on a storm bound ship. I'm pretty sure it's still taught here but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Most official writing has been performed through a keypad for the last 70 years or so. We have just allied the keypad with electricity in the last few years. What I'm trying to say is... Long Live the Keyboard! I'd never have enjoyed writing if I had to do it by hand.

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 05:41 PM
This is what I've found on the WWW to be the case against CV:




There's a reason nobody can read your goddamn signature -- cursive is hard to read. Many colleges forbid students from turning in exams written in cursive and present lectures via PowerPoint, not pretty P's and looping L's.





Ludicrous!

Terie
01-31-2012, 05:44 PM
Please try to focus on the topic.

Please try to refrain from telling others how to respond to you.

You've been here scarcely a day and made over 50 posts in less than five hours. You might want to do as I suggested above and get to know the community.

crunchyblanket
01-31-2012, 05:48 PM
This is what I've found on the WWW to be the case against CV:








Ludicrous!

Source? That doesn't look so much like a case against CV as one person's opinion.

Puma
01-31-2012, 05:51 PM
In the old days, being able to write is what separated the educated from the uneducated. Food for thought. Puma

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 05:55 PM
I never got to grips to cursive writing. My writing tends to look like that of a drunk doctor's on a storm bound ship. I'm pretty sure it's still taught here but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Most official writing has been performed through a keypad for the last 70 years or so. We have just allied the keypad with electricity in the last few years. What I'm trying to say is... Long Live the Keyboard! I'd never have enjoyed writing if I had to do it by hand.


Just a quick thinking on that one. What if we suffer a major electricity shortage and all gadgets stop working?

We've got to write then, don't we?

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 05:56 PM
In the old days, being able to write is what separated the educated from the uneducated. Food for thought. Puma


I couldn't agree more.

Nostro
01-31-2012, 05:57 PM
We get to pretend we're in the twenties and tap away on cool old typewriters.

Literateparakeet
01-31-2012, 05:59 PM
What if we suffer a major electricity shortage and all gadgets stop working?

We've got to write then, don't we?

There is always printing.

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 06:02 PM
Source? That doesn't look so much like a case against CV as one person's opinion.


You're right, It doesn't and that's why I've remarked with "Ludicrous!"

crunchyblanket
01-31-2012, 06:05 PM
You're right, It doesn't and that's why I've remarked with "Ludicrous!"

I'm just curious as to why you've presented it as 'an argument against CV' when it's clearly not. It contributes nothing to the thread...

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 06:07 PM
So many people use and continue to use cursive that I think students would be without if not taught it. The Japanese would be a mess if either katakana or hiragana was suddenly no longer taught.


I guess you are totally right 'cause katakana and hiragana (primarily used for function words and inflections) are so hard to learn.

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 06:16 PM
I'm just curious as to why you've presented it as 'an argument against CV' when it's clearly not. It contributes nothing to the thread...

Because some people think it is a strong argument against CV when it;s clearly not.


I want to prove them wrong and that CV should be brought back to schools.

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 06:22 PM
We get to pretend we're in the twenties and tap away on cool old typewriters.

That's a good alternative I must say.



I never got to grips to cursive writing.

Who signs your checks?

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 06:23 PM
There is always printing.

True that.

Cyia
01-31-2012, 06:23 PM
This is what I've found on the WWW to be the case against CV:



Curriculum Vitae?


I guess you are totally right 'cause katakana and hiragana (primarily used for function words and inflections) are so hard to learn.

Not if you learn to read and write in Japan. It's harder for someone with a background speaking/writing English or other European based languages because it's a completely different system.


Because some people think it is a strong argument against CV when it;s clearly not.


I want to prove them wrong and that CV should be brought back to schools.

Seriously, CV doesn't stand for cursive. It's the equivalent of an employment resume. And if the standard for communication is moving away from cursive, there's no reason to backward. We no longer use cuneiform or hieroglyphics to communicate because other methods became the standard. Language is fluid and adaptive.

(Plus, I can think of several teachers who would have rather I never attempted to write in cursive, as it didn't mesh well with the size or slant of my writing.)

Shadow_Ferret
01-31-2012, 06:24 PM
I've forgotten how to write cursive. I haven't used it in the 40+ years since I learned it in grade school. I print when I hand write my stories. And my signature is just a series of unintelligible loops. I didn't understand why we needed to learn it then and I don't understand why we need to continue to learn it. No books, magazines, or anything are printed with cursive. It's archaic. Cursive should go the way of cave paintings.

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 06:26 PM
I tell my children that they need to learn it well enough to read it, and sign their name. Signatures, IMO, should be in cursive. Beyond that is left to their discretion.


So you're kind of against CV?

Theo81
01-31-2012, 06:30 PM
I'm not sure I grasp why cursive is important. The single thing I look for in somebody's handwriting is legibility. (I write in cursive because that's what my school taught.)

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 06:31 PM
My 16yo son can only sign his name in cursive. He admitted this weekend that he guesses at the cursive version of letters that aren't in his name.

This appalls me. They're taught basic cursive in 2nd or 3rd grade, and then it's dropped, like the kids know all they need to.



And this is astonishing! The above sentence in bold is what I'm talking about.

Cyia
01-31-2012, 06:35 PM
And this is astonishing!


Why?

Would it amaze you that someone speaking modern English had to guess at Chaucer's meaning in the original?

Communication has shifted, therefore the means shifts with it.

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 06:45 PM
I'm not sure I grasp why cursive is important. The single thing I look for in somebody's handwriting is legibility. (I write in cursive because that's what my school taught.)

Well it appears that the younger generations can't read and understand CV.

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 06:52 PM
Curriculum Vitae?


Ha ha



Not if you learn to read and write in Japan. It's harder for someone with a background speaking/writing English or other European based languages because it's a completely different system.

Not necessarily the case. I am sure that Japs can't remember all the symbols they have in their writing system.




Seriously, CV doesn't stand for cursive. It's the equivalent of an employment resume.

And if the standard for communication is moving away from cursive, there's no reason to backward. We no longer use cuneiform or hieroglyphics to communicate because other methods became the standard. Language is fluid and adaptive.

(Plus, I can think of several teachers who would have rather I never attempted to write in cursive, as it didn't mesh well with the size or slant of my writing.)


So you are too against cursive writing?

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 07:01 PM
Why?

Would it amaze you that someone speaking modern English had to guess at Chaucer's meaning in the original?

Communication has shifted, therefore the means shifts with it.

Your logic is fraught with danger. The comparison is not in place and I believe you still understand Shakespearean works, don't you?

Sunnyside
01-31-2012, 07:15 PM
I'm still confused by the CV thing. I, too, read that as curriculum vitae.

Anyway.

I'm not sure it's entirely logical to argue that we shouldn't learn how to write in cursive simply because most of us use computer keyboards these days. I had to learn to add and subtract, even though calculators have done most of that kind of work for us for a generation now. Just because a machine makes it easier to do doesn't mean it's not worth learning or doing. (By this logic, we should probably just stop making pens, then, right?)

That said, I personally don't write in cursive, because my cursive is unreadable. I've printed since high school; I can do it faster than writing in cursive, and it's more readable. My own daughter---now 15---also learned cursive and prints now as well, but I don't think she'd consider learning cursive a waste of time just because she spends most of her time texting.

Manuel Royal
01-31-2012, 07:20 PM
Ha haIndeed; glad you're so cheerful. So, what's with "CV"? What does the V stand for?


Not necessarily the case. I am sure that Japs can't remember all the symbols they have in their writing system.Hm. What an incisive question. We probably have Japanese members right here on AW; you should ask them. And phrase it exactly the same way.

In response to your OP, such as it is: I think it's still useful to teach cursive. It's a kinesthetic skill one can use one's whole life. My handwriting has gone sloppy because I don't use it that often, but I still sometimes just sit with a notebook and jot down ideas.

For me, at least, there's somehow a different mental flow when I have a pen in hand instead of a keyboard in front of me. Maybe because writing cursive is closer to drawing pictures. We've been making marks with pigment for tens of thousands of years; it provides a direct channel from your brain to the cave wall (or paper).

Bubastes
01-31-2012, 07:23 PM
For me, at least, there's somehow a different mental flow when I have a pen in hand instead of a keyboard in front of me. Maybe because writing cursive is closer to drawing pictures. We've been making marks with pigment for tens of thousands of years; it provides a direct channel from your brain to the cave wall (or paper).

Yes, I feel the same way. Cursive writing uses a different part of my brain.

Rhoda Nightingale
01-31-2012, 07:25 PM
I love writing in cursive. All my longhand notes and scene work in various notebooks are written in cursive. I find I write faster that way. Also, because I'm paranoid about people reading over my shoulder, I like knowing that most people who might try can't decipher it. I was required to write in cursive in elementary school, and graded on my penmanship as well.

Now, however, it is more of an aesthetic thing. It's elegant and sophisticated looking. I think it's a shame that they're talking about no longer teaching it in schools, but it's not the end of the world. They ought to keep it on as an option at least.

Calla Lily
01-31-2012, 07:34 PM
Not necessarily the case. I am sure that Japs can't remember all the symbols they have in their writing system.


Billy, this slur is offensive.

Manuel Royal
01-31-2012, 07:38 PM
I remember Isaac Asimov writing about how when he first went on a cruise, he wrote much of a novel in longhand, and felt that it had more of an emotional quality than most of his work (if I remember correctly).

(This was back before laptops. Though lots of people took portable typewriters with them.)

I remember showing something to my my teenage nephew, and how I stared at him when he said, "I can't read cursive." I honestly don't know how he signs his name.

shaldna
01-31-2012, 07:45 PM
We were taught cursive, or as we called it 'joined up writing' in primary school about P3-4 and were required to use it at all times from then on.

As an adult though I've found that my normal handwriting is somewhere between the two, with teh majority joined up and some letters printed.

Jamesaritchie
01-31-2012, 07:49 PM
Why?

Would it amaze you that someone speaking modern English had to guess at Chaucer's meaning in the original?

Communication has shifted, therefore the means shifts with it.

It's astonishing because it's ignorance, and a complete failure of the public education system. Cursive isn't from Chaucer's time, and only an uneducated lout can't write in cursive, today, or in any other age.

It's well and good to talk about modern technology, but it's only an excuse, and it's why this country lags so far behind just about every other civilized country in the world.

Though I guess it's no different than someone managing to get through high school, and even college, without learning basic grammar. But I suppose we don't need this, either. After all, grammar check programs are getting better and better.

Ain't technology wonderful.

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 07:53 PM
Indeed; glad you're so cheerful. So, what's with "CV"? What does the V stand for?

Hm. What an incisive question. We probably have Japanese members right here on AW; you should ask them. And phrase it exactly the same way.

In response to your OP, such as it is: I think it's still useful to teach cursive. It's a kinesthetic skill one can use one's whole life. My handwriting has gone sloppy because I don't use it that often, but I still sometimes just sit with a notebook and jot down ideas.

For me, at least, there's somehow a different mental flow when I have a pen in hand instead of a keyboard in front of me. Maybe because writing cursive is closer to drawing pictures. We've been making marks with pigment for tens of thousands of years; it provides a direct channel from your brain to the cave wall (or paper).


An old habit of mine. Ok, I look at it as integration by double substitution. "V" substitutes for "W" and "W" substitutes for Writing and therefore double substitution is obtained. Max compression that is.

Calla Lily
01-31-2012, 07:56 PM
It's astonishing because it's ignorance, and a complete failure of the public education system. Cursive isn't from Chaucer's time, and only an uneducated lout can't write in cursive, today, or in any other age.



I beg to disagree, since my 16yo (the one who doesn't use cursive) is #2 in his class, taking 4 college-level courses in his junior year, and is on track to attend RIT.

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 07:56 PM
Billy, this slur is offensive.


Sorry darlin. If someone perceives it that way my deepest apologies to them.



I must say I had a Japanese girlfriend. And I love Japanese people.

Cyia
01-31-2012, 07:57 PM
It's well and good to talk about modern technology, but it's only an excuse, and it's why this country lags so far behind just about every other civilized country in the world.



An odd view, considering most of the countries we lag behind don't use cursive writing, as their written languages aren't based in European alphabets or phonetic systems.

Altering the delivery method of the language doesn't impact the value of what's being delivered. Cursive was a cultural imperative when the norm was to write long, hand-written letters for business or general correspondence. This is no longer the case.

Calla Lily
01-31-2012, 07:58 PM
Sorry darlin. If someone perceives it that way my deepest apologies to them.



I must say I had a Japanese girlfriend. And I love Japanese people.

Darlin', if this were my board, this thread would've been closed after that comment with an appropriate note about respect.

_Billy_
01-31-2012, 08:06 PM
Darlin', if this were my board, this thread would've been closed after that comment with an appropriate note about respect.

I always respect others and that's the way I was brought up.

My utmost respect !

Old Hack
01-31-2012, 08:16 PM
Experience shows that members who make lots of brief comments in their first few days here are likely to expect critiques of their own work while contributing little to the community as a whole.

Studies show that children with dyslexia learn to write more easily, and understand their own work more easily, if they're taught to use only cursive writing, and not forms where the letters are more discrete. There's also a lot of interesting research about a writer's closeness to the words he produces: writing with a pen on paper counts as very close, as there's a direct physical link between the writer and the words; writing on a computer is more distant, as that physical link is missing.

I hope _Billy_ finds this useful. But something tells me he's not going to listen too hard to any of us.

Haggis
01-31-2012, 08:17 PM
I always respect others and that's the way I was brought up.

My utmost respect !
Riiiight. You respect us so much you've come back as multiple sockpuppets.

No more troll until next time.

AW Admin
01-31-2012, 08:40 PM
It's astonishing because it's ignorance, and a complete failure of the public education system. Cursive isn't from Chaucer's time, and only an uneducated lout can't write in cursive, today, or in any other age.

Mr. Ritchie

You absolutely must stop making shite up.

Cursive absolutely is from "Chaucer's time": it's a direct descendent of Humanist minuscule, a hand that rose to prominence in Chaucer's lifetime, the hand that his scribe Adam Scrivener used.

I note, Mr. Ritchie, that large numbers of adults who are exceedingly well-educated--particularly when one compares their M.D. and J.D. with writers who have B.A.s and little actual experience writing--who can't write cursive.

Not to mention all the people who are blind, visually disabled, or dyslexic.

Like me.

And my level of education leaves you in the dust, clutching your Olivetti and sobbing.