Better places to do research

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It's been a week since the Wikipedia blackout. It really drove the point home about SOPA and PIPA, I think, because if you look for anything on google, the Wikipedia article about it is going to be the first hit, or one of the first at least. Lots of people, then, saw what was probably their favorite source for information and trivia, go black, with a message about why everyone should oppose bad legislation.

I joked to myself, "where is everybody going to go for their quick facts? Where are two of my (non-fiction) writers going to find text to dump into the manuscripts to pad the word count?"

Seriously, though, we all know that writers of everything, even fiction, need to research things. Wikipedia is too convenient to ignore; but it's not reliable enough to use as a single source. I think nothing should be used as a single source if the topic matters to what you're writing about.

There are plenty of other places to look things up. When I want something medical, I go to Medline. When I want something mechanical, I go to How Stuff Works. If I want some hard core academic knowledge, there are no fewer than a dozen college and university libraries in my city.

Wikipedia is still good for general facts, and the articles that actually list their sources with hyperlinks to them are more or less trustworthy; the sources are often better than the articles.

Anyway, I thought it would be fun for people to list their "go to" sites for information on specific topics that they need to research for their work. I listed two above and I'll add some more when they come to mind, but what about yours?
 

Puma

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I could list genealogical sites, cemetery record sites, and sites for military records from the Revolutionary War on up, but the list would bog this thread. I also have many scientific sites bookmarked - everything from bog flowers to flint chipping types to the Cascade volcanoes. And even so, I have multiple sites I consult. Wikipedia is good for overview information, but not for the detail I'm frequently looking for. Puma
 

Deleted member 42

There is a venerable institution called the library.

Go there. Consult with professionals.

Cite your sources.

(And editor? Really?)
 
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I think Youtube has the same problems as Wikipedia. Anybody can post to it and it's not that hard to be anonymous there. It has the example in how "seeing is believing" and there are plenty of sincere, knowledgable people there, but it's not moderated as much as Wikipedia.

Google Scholar is cool. Google Patents can give you some insight into how things get invented and how engineers think (provided that you aren't one already); or you can search for American patents at the USPTO through their somewhat wonky interface.

The library should be a last resort. If you can't get anything online, then it's the only option left. Keep in mind the many people who do not live within driving distance of a good one; not to mention those of us who are a wee bit too busy to move away from our desks while we are working on multiple projects. :)
 

llamafarmer

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My local library closes before I finish work, and it would take too long to travel there and back in my lunch hour (I work on Saturdays too), so the internet is perfect for me.

Most of the time Wikipedia is my first port of call, but it's certainly never my last. The blackout was pretty frustrating for me I'll admit, but I got around it. Took far longer without Wikipedia but I got there in the end. It shocked me actually how dependent you can get on one single resource.

For the sci-fi elements of my stories, most of the places I find useful are forums; Bad Astronomy http://www.bautforum.com/ being one of them. The blog's not bad too. Another one is Physics Forums http://www.physicsforums.com/.
 
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Alison_Kale

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JSTOR's great for academic research, and it searches through a lot of different databases. Downside: you need a sort of affiliation to log in, but you might be able to get that through an alumni account or through your local library. You can search by state for all the affiliates.
 

Deleted member 42

The library should be a last resort. If you can't get anything online, then it's the only option left. Keep in mind the many people who do not live within driving distance of a good one; not to mention those of us who are a wee bit too busy to move away from our desks while we are working on multiple projects. :)

The library offers professional researchers, and databases that you do not have access to.

It's the reason those of us who are professional researchers actually use the library.
 

jennontheisland

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JSTOR's great for academic research, and it searches through a lot of different databases. Downside: you need a sort of affiliation to log in, but you might be able to get that through an alumni account or through your local library. You can search by state for all the affiliates.
Most universities will offer library "cards" (log in credentials) to non-students and non-alumni for an annual fee. It's usually cheaper than the access fee to a single database and gets you access to all kinds of databases.
 

jennontheisland

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The library offers professional researchers, and databases that you do not have access to.

It's the reason those of us who are professional researchers actually use the library.
Exactly. But then, for people who are considering wikipedia as a primary source for research... a library and professional researcher is likely well beyond their needs.
 

Williebee

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I think Youtube has the same problems as Wikipedia.

The library should be a last resort. /QUOTE]

Youtube? As stated, it depends on what you're researching. You want to learn how to start a blog, for free, there's a 12 year old who can show you five minutes or less. Want to know how your 12 year old character would act when starting a blog, you'll see that displayed by the kid doing the video. Same with jumping a bike over a car or letting a cat out of a bag, or doing high school/college chemistry experiments.

As for the bolded part (my bold.) You might need to try a different library. That's just not right.
 

Deleted member 42

The library should be a last resort. If you can't get anything online, then it's the only option left. Keep in mind the many people who do not live within driving distance of a good one; not to mention those of us who are a wee bit too busy to move away from our desks while we are working on multiple projects. :)

One of the things that is terribly ironic about this thread, and this post in particular, is that you do not demonstrate any understanding at all regarding what makes one source authoritative and another one, well, not authoritative.

There's a reason students get dinged for using YouTube and Wikipedia.
 

Cath

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Many many libraries also offer online resources. And yes, as Medi says, if you want honest, authoritative information, it should be your first stop not your last!

Cath - Librarian.
 

Puma

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Libraries can be a problem though for us who don't live in a metropolitan area. Our local library (10 miles away) does have on line resources and I can request material through inter-library loan. And then I wait ... Sometimes I have to call to see what the status is of my request, because on line it doesn't show any movement. And sometimes when I call I find out the source that had listed it for loan is no longer doing that. And then my only option is driving 50 miles to the closest source that has whatever I'm looking for available for in library research. So, at least for me, there are some downsides to trying to do primary research in a library. Sometimes I'm actually better off to see if I can find the book I'm after for sale on e-bay (and that does happen.) Puma
 

Literateparakeet

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There is a venerable institution called the library.

Agreed. Databases, databases, databases.

For free, I can access my library's database (on line 24/7), and through them I have access to all kinds of databases. Medical, science, historic, consumer...and so much more. It's amazing. Talk to your librarian.
 

Lil

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There is also something called interlibrary loan. Your library can borrow a book for you from another library. You can also borrow books from university libraries this way. There is sometimes a fee, but it is rarely more than the cost of postage.

Encyclopedias, including Wikipedia, are a good place to begin when you are starting out from ignorance, but they should never be considered the major source of information once you are out of elementary school.
 

amergina

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I love libraries. They also have this thing called "inter-library loan" where you can get books from other libraries sent to your local library...

I also like talking to experts.

I use google as a place to *start* research, but nothing beats actual source material and talking to the folks who do things for a living.
 

PorterStarrByrd

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google books should be on your list. If its a book and it's on line, it's probably there.

For a reading list seach abebooks using a subject.

outside of that I seldom find that google can't set me on the right path if I use the advanced search option (boolean)
 

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I think there's a significant difference between academic research and research for writing fiction. Absolutely, there's no substitute for a good library (and a good librarian, or team thereof) for doing academic research. And some sorts of fiction writing (historicals, for example) require near-academic levels of research for some parts.

But most of the novel-related research I do doesn't have to be that precise. If I need to know whether there's a sizeable lake between Place A and Place B, Google Maps can tell me that, and give me pictures, in seconds. If I need to know what it would look like if a car drove off a bridge into that lake, Youtube has videos that will help me out. If I want to know the rate of decomposition for a body that was locked in the trunk of that car, I can find sites on the internet that will tell me that, in more detail than I want.

I'm no longer an academic, and I live a hell of a long way from a library of any size. There are times when I have to find books, but most of the time, for writing fiction, the internet is all I need.
 

jennontheisland

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I love libraries. They also have this thing called "inter-library loan" where you can get books from other libraries sent to your local library...
The tiny small town library I used on Vancouver Island was able to get me a copy of a post-doctoral thesis published by Harvard University Press.

Inter-library loan is the shit.
 

Deleted member 42

I'm no longer an academic, and I live a hell of a long way from a library of any size. There are times when I have to find books, but most of the time, for writing fiction, the internet is all I need.

The difficulty is that you need to be able to distinguish a decent source from a wretched one. And in the OP whole-hearted embrace of WikiPedia, he seems oblivious to the fact that it is trivial to make Wikipedia say anything you want.

I note that I frequently see less than impressive research in fiction in terms of early history, language, and mythology. Including a novel with a medieval Welsh heroine named "sanitary napkin" in Welsh, people with vegetarian druids in thirteenth century Ireland, and an eighteenth-century New England farmer feeding his cows sugar cane.

All the these authors did research.

They just didn't know how to research, or how to identify a good source from a poor one. Librarians do know.
 

Ken

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... considering how Wikipedia is assembled, it's pretty amazing how good of a source for information it is. Kudos to the contributors! I still wouldn't rely on it if the research was important. It's more of a gateway to information to give one a good overview. Using that initial info one can then go elsewhere to check the facts and get more in-depth coverage and reliable details.
 
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I think there's a significant difference between academic research and research for writing fiction.... most of the novel-related research I do doesn't have to be that precise.

Yeah, that.

If I needed a peer-reviewed work of research in an academic journal or in book-length form university libraries are best; and there are more than I can really count in an easy commute from where I am. I've done enough research in them to know that if I was writing a novel with specific facts (often facts of a purely local nature) in it, that I would likely not find what I am looking for in one of those or if I did, it would not be found very quickly. And when I need to fact-check something that a writer sends to me, a trip to the library subtracts productive hours from my day. I'm not a grad student anymore. Time is at a premium.

Though it was good to raise Google Books as a point. Many of the books that ended up there are on that level of academic acuity.

Wikipedia is insufficient as a source for fiction writers for slightly different reasons than it is for university students. Even if you only need a bit of info to get local, technical, or historical details in a story right; the trouble is that Wikipedia articles can be written, edited, modified; and revised by anyone and as extensive as their checks and balances might be, it is very easy for errant nonsense or stuff that's just plain wrong to be in the articles. This is all the more possible in obscure topics, because there will be fewer people monitoring those articles. Add in the tendency for Wikipedia articles to focus on very recent things, even including recent references to the article's subject matter in popular culture, and I start to wonder if Wikipedia's main value is more as a form of entertainment than as an encyclopedia. For university students, Wikipedia's deficiencies are obvious: it's not academically peer-reviewed and somebody who is paying so many thousands of dollars a year to have the privilege of putting two or three letters after his or her name and adding a line or two to his or her CV should be expected to work harder than a mere Google search. (Note: the tone is only slightly ironic here. I am not denigrating academia; I am saying that people who portend to be a part of it are held to way higher standards than everybody else, for reasons that are not always obvious to everybody else.)

My OP was a question about other sources, topic-specific sources, that are readily available online; ones that not everybody necessarily would know about; various "go-to" sources for information that can provide information that is more reliable than Wikipedia. I said that the library should be your last resort because of the time factor.
 

areteus

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I blogged about this very issue last week... as a teacher, a writer and an ex academic it is a subject close to my heart and it does sometimes amaze me at the level of naivity some people have where they believe something just because it was posted on the internet (a friend of mine once compared this to listening to some bloke in a pub and believing every word he says no matter how ludicrous).

I've always been of the school that says that Wikipedia is a reasonable starting point but it should not be the be all and end all of your evidence and you should at the very least chase any references you see posted in there to check that this is what they actually say and not some crazy arsed interpretation (or even that the source is valid...)

This is one reason why I like to run lots of 'research tasks' when teaching. I don't do them because I am essentially lazy and prefer it if I can do very little actual work during a lesson (research lessons are easy to plan and easy to deliver - here is a question, here are some basic keywords and guidelines, there is the internet... off you go) but mainly because I believe in giving students the chance to practise essential research skills and I always preface such lessons with my usual spiel about evidence, source materials, referencing, plaguarism, peer reviewing and so on. I also keep a close eye on what pages they are accessing to check that they are using a varied mix of sources ( and also because part of my job is to prevent them abusing the facilities by downloading porn or playing online games... :) ). So far, in the years I have been doing this I haven't noticed too many of them relying totally on wikipedia and when they do only cite it (or, worse, copy and paste from it - it is surprisingly easy to tell when they do this...) I've made sure to explain to them the reasons why they shouldn't.