Disastrous self-promotion in process

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HapiSofi

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I am pinching the bridge of my nose, just like Uncle Jim sometimes does.

Want to see a remarkably ill-considered piece of self-promotion that's going on even as we speak? Go here, to the voting page for Tor.com's annual Reader's Choice awards for science fiction and fantasy.

There's a publisher in Tennessee, Seventh Star Press, that's set up a link to it on their front page, along with a list of eligible works they published during 2011. It's pretty tacky of them, and it's no favor to their books and authors, which are not the sort that normally spring to mind when one is contemplating a "best of the year" ballot.

But that's not the real problem. One of their authors, Stephen Zimmer, is obviously getting everyone he knows to vote for his novel, The Seventh Throne, plus the novel's cover art, and an obscure short story he had published in 2011. None of them are what you'd call likely or plausible choices in their categories. (I don't know whether there's any connection between Seventh Star and Seventh Throne.)

Most of the votes for Zimmer vote only for his work, which is improbable. Readers who are interested in SF and fantasy would also cast votes in other categories. More than a few of the votes for Zimmer have had identical formats and wording, which is so improbable that there's a term for it.

Stuffing the ballot box is a bad idea. The SF community isn't a big place, and it has a very long memory. What makes this worse is that the entire first chapter of The Seventh Throne is available on Amazon. That book is bad enough to make your eyeballs bleed. (Surprise! All the reviews give it five stars!) Here's the opening sentence:
"It would seem that these are all disparate groups, from all over the world, with widely different agendas. But in truth, their efforts are focused upon a unified, singular purpose ... something that is called the Convergence, by the ones that know the truth underlying it all," Father Wilson Rader stated, with an air of deep solemnity.
After that it gets really murky.

The awfulness of Seventh Throne isn't just a matter of bad sentences, though they're plenty bad. Zimmer's narrative technique is so defective that half the time you can't tell what's happening. He makes errors I've never seen before, like forgetting to mention until he's halfway through a section that his POV character exists and is present onstage. Since I'd naturally been reading it as 3rd person omniscient, having to suddenly recast everything I'd read so far felt like a ten-car pileup in my head.

When narrative is handled as badly as he handles it, a book becomes literally unreadable -- your brain can't process it the way we normally process fiction. I doubt that most of the people who've voted for his book could pass a pop quiz on its contents.

Stephan Zimmer can't have thought through the implications of forcing the SF community to take notice of his book. If people start linking to that sample text, he's going to make himself famous in ways he'll regret for the rest of his career.
 

Drachen Jager

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I love bios that start off "Originally born in..." Makes me wonder if they're born-agains or just redundant. Reincarnation perhaps?

Considering he's over the four million 'best sellers' mark on Amazon, I'd say he hasn't sold a copy in months. Apparently his strategy isn't working. I presume the TOR hosts will check the IPs of incoming votes and disallow multiple voting when they catch on.

Even the book synopsis on Amazon is unreadable,

"The quest will take them to the brink of hell itself, but it is one that may hold astounding revelations."

"Seth Engel and his teenage friends venture forth once again to seek proof of spreading rumors; this time of rounded-up townspeople being herded into large detainment facilities close to Godwinton."

"The Seventh Throne will leave the reader hungry for the next installment, after a revelation of tremendous magnitude culminates the latest Rising Dawn Saga adventure."

The only people it will leave hungry are those who use it as a form of verbal ipecac.
 

The Lonely One

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It doesn't sound so bad to me. I mean, the guy seems accomplished enough to have done something right along the way.

The whole promotion thing sounds tacky as hell, though.
 

swvaughn

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Oh, dear...

This is why I gave up entering contests long ago. I don't even pay attention on the rare occasion I'm nominated for one.

Not cool, writer dude. Very not cool.
 

KalenO

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Honestly, the big thing that stands out to me when reading the Amazon synopsis, is I can't even figure out what GENRE this is. At first I thought it was secondary world fantasy (epic fantasy), then it seemed like it was set in our modern world with fantasy elements, then it seemed almost like a futuristic world with fantasy elements....no go. Sorry dude.

And did anyone see this comment on the Tor page and have a major moment of *headdesk*?

I read Dance With Dragons and Alloy of Law and while they were good, Clockwork Prince by Cassandra Clare was breathlessly good writing. I wish they would stop marketing books to teens just to get them to read.

Clockwork Prince being a YA novel, for those that don't know.

ETA: Btw, for a different kind of bad promotion, I'm going down Tor's list now and looking up books on Amazon, looking for some new reads, and what's with traditionally published books that don't have a synopsis or back cover copy or anything with their Amazon listing? When you have to scroll through reader reviews to get even an inkling of what the book is about, somebody's dropped a ball somewhere.
 
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CrastersBabies

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Sometimes I loathe internet voting . . .

That is all.
 

MJNL

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Holy shills, Batman!

Please people, learn a little about business ethics and why behaving ethically can only help you.
 

HapiSofi

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I love bios that start off "Originally born in..." Makes me wonder if they're born-agains or just redundant. Reincarnation perhaps?
Yup. It should either be "[Name] is originally from" or "[Name] was born in." Badly-written bios are little minefields of redundancy, cliche, and inadvertent causal linkage.
Considering he's over the four million 'best sellers' mark on Amazon, I'd say he hasn't sold a copy in months. Apparently his strategy isn't working.
Amazon numbers are very approximate, but they can give you a rough idea of the magnitude and direction of sales. I've put an asterisk next to the books that are part of the Rising Dawn Saga.
2,529,371 The Exodus Gate, 05 February 2009*
3,786,509 Crown of Vengeance, 01 December 2009
4,508,092 The Storm Guardians, 01 June 2010*
4,805,153 Dream of Legends, 08 December 2010
4,612,362 The Seventh Throne, 09 August 2011*
The higher ranking on Exodus Gate might be interpreted as a series starting to get traction, with readers going back to pick up earlier titles, if the sales numbers on Storm Guardians weren't so dismal. I'd say the story here is that buying one book by Stephen Zimmer doesn't increase the chances that the reader will buy another. He needs to rethink his program.
It doesn't sound so bad to me. I mean, the guy seems accomplished enough to have done something right along the way.
I'm not saying he's never done anything right, but he's miles from accomplishing the essential task: writing a readable book. Until he can do that, the rest is wasted effort.
The whole promotion thing sounds tacky as hell, though.
I wish people would stop quoting the line about how there's no such thing as bad publicity. It's not true.
The cover art is perfectly ok, but I would not consider it a contender for "best of the year."
It's passable. That's about all.
"Best of the year" sorts of art tend to wind up in the Spectrum fantastic art books, and I can't picture this cover in that company.
The Spectrum collections are beautiful.

Another way to track promising artists is to watch them rise through the ranks in the "also nominated" lists for the popularly-voted awards. It usually takes a few years for the voters to notice an artist and decide they like his or her work. Stephen Zimmer's ballots don't even list the artist's name. This is not believable.
Honestly, the big thing that stands out to me when reading the Amazon synopsis, is I can't even figure out what GENRE this is. At first I thought it was secondary world fantasy (epic fantasy), then it seemed like it was set in our modern world with fantasy elements, then it seemed almost like a futuristic world with fantasy elements....no go. Sorry dude.
I actually bought the Kindle edition. I can tell you two things: it doesn't get better later on, and I still don't know what genre it's supposed to be.
ETA: Btw, for a different kind of bad promotion, I'm going down Tor's list now and looking up books on Amazon, looking for some new reads, and what's with traditionally published books that don't have a synopsis or back cover copy or anything with their Amazon listing? When you have to scroll through reader reviews to get even an inkling of what the book is about, somebody's dropped a ball somewhere.
You mean these were published as commercial trade fiction, but there's no editorial copy on Amazon? Who published them?

At the company I know best, that information is not supposed to go missing. It was a major project to build the system whereby the info flows straight from the publisher's database(s) to Amazon's. Cover copy and editorial copy are important.
 

KalenO

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You mean these were published as commercial trade fiction, but there's no editorial copy on Amazon? Who published them?

At the company I know best, that information is not supposed to go missing. It was a major project to build the system whereby the info flows straight from the publisher's database(s) to Amazon's. Cover copy and editorial copy are important.

The very first book on Tor's spreadsheet, actually. Rivers of London by Ben Aaronovitch. There's no copy under Product Details, just barebones minutiae like number of pages. I don't recognize the publisher (Gollancz) but I thought it odd particularly because I recognize the author and have seen his Del Rey published books in quite a few stores.
 

KathleenD

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But if he gets enough votes to win?

(Full disclosure: Insert rant here about contests I've entered and not won, complete with a faint whiff of eau de sour grapes because I really would have liked the prize money, not that I am bitter.)

These "internet readers choose the winners" things are traffic drivers meant to get people motivated to visit the site... and maybe scroll down the list of nominees looking for new books to buy :D

The only way to prevent ballot stuffing is to make the voter "pay." Mail a ballot (costs time and postage), vote with the purchase of a book, etc.
 

Drachen Jager

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Amazon numbers are very approximate, but they can give you a rough idea of the magnitude and direction of sales. I've put an asterisk next to the books that are part of the Rising Dawn Saga.
2,529,371 The Exodus Gate, 05 February 2009*
3,786,509 Crown of Vengeance, 01 December 2009
4,508,092 The Storm Guardians, 01 June 2010*
4,805,153 Dream of Legends, 08 December 2010
4,612,362 The Seventh Throne, 09 August 2011*
The higher ranking on Exodus Gate might be interpreted as a series starting to get traction, with readers going back to pick up earlier titles, if the sales numbers on Storm Guardians weren't so dismal. I'd say the story here is that buying one book by Stephen Zimmer doesn't increase the chances that the reader will buy another. He needs to rethink his program.

Even one sale is enough to propel a book into the 6 figure range for a few weeks. Books above the million mark haven't sold a single copy in some time.

In fact, I would wager that he currently has more votes than he's sold copies of his book.
 

Drachen Jager

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But if he gets enough votes to win?

Admins can look at the IPs of the people who post comments. If even a half-dozen of those come from the same IP (and I'm sure they probably all do) they'll probably just chuck all the votes for him out.
 

The Lonely One

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I'm not saying he's never done anything right, but he's miles from accomplishing the essential task: writing a readable book. Until he can do that, the rest is wasted effort.

I guess from what I saw I don't hate the writing as bad as you do. It isn't great by any means, but I could probably read it if he writes good stories. And he's also a screenwriter so if he's getting work his plots must sell.

I wish people would stop quoting the line about how there's no such thing as bad publicity. It's not true.
Don't know where you got that. I was saying quite the opposite. I was saying his publicity here is tacky and lame, unprofessional and embarrassing.

EDIT: it turns out his filmography is pretty unnoteworthy, but I still didn't hate his writing. Just his behavior in this instance.
 
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shaldna

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What I'm noticing is that when he does get a vote, he gets three of four of pretty much identical wording in teh space of a couple of minutes.

I think you should have to register to be able to vote for these kind of thing.

A voter did say :
65. Lastyear
VIEW ALL BY | WEDNESDAY JANUARY 11, 2012 04:08PM EST
Seems to be some padding going on here. 3 identical lists featuring a rather unknown author. All three contain the same misspelling.

To which they got the response:

74. Stephen Zimmer
WEDNESDAY JANUARY 11, 2012 04:42PM EST
@Lastyear: It is possible that some of my readers came here and one of the earlier voters had a typo that one or two others cut and pasted to save time in the posting (passing along the misspelling in the process). I have just made the information available as to what book and short story of mine qualify.

I just wanted to make this comment as there is no "padding" going on. The information of what titles are eligible and the opening of the voting has been made available, that's all.

I hope you try my stuff out sometime so I don't remain an "unkown author" to you, LOL. My readers are a really great bunch and very supportive.

Which doesn't sound all that likely to be honest.
 

bearilou

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Even one sale is enough to propel a book into the 6 figure range for a few weeks. Books above the million mark haven't sold a single copy in some time.

This is an interesting comment and shows how dreadfully ignorant I am of amazon ratings.

Can you (or anyone) recommend some reading that explains how that all works on Amazon? I'll take keywords to google! I'm just interested in how the ranking thing works because I've always been suspicious when someone starts quoting their ranking as a badge of honor.

eta: In other news, my tbr pile just got larger... *sigh*
 

Terie

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TCan you (or anyone) recommend some reading that explains how that all works on Amazon? I'll take keywords to google! I'm just interested in how the ranking thing works because I've always been suspicious when someone starts quoting their ranking as a badge of honor.

The algorithm Amazon uses is a closely held secret.

The bottom line is that an Amazon ranking for print books is meaningful only if it's three digits or fewer and stays there for any length of time.

Beyond that, watching Amazon ranks (your own or anyone else's) is an exercise in crazy-making.
 

bearilou

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The algorithm Amazon uses is a closely held secret.

Oooh...the plot thickens... :)

The bottom line is that an Amazon ranking for print books is meaningful only if it's three digits or fewer and stays there for any length of time.

Good to know. That's useful information, even if the accuracy of the numbers appear sketchy at best.

Beyond that, watching Amazon ranks (your own or anyone else's) is an exercise in crazy-making.

:ROFL: Yeah, that's the gist of the impression I get when anyone starts talking about amazon rankings. I have a while before I descend into the crazy-making process.

I guess it just flies up my nose when someone wants to start throwing their amazon ranking around as if it's some big achievement to be at the top of some obscure tag/list ranking chart and I was hoping to have something that would put it in perspective.

Sounds like it's similar to statistics, you can make the numbers mean anything you want.

Thanks!
 

Terie

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The very first book on Tor's spreadsheet, actually. Rivers of London by Ben Aaronovitch. There's no copy under Product Details, just barebones minutiae like number of pages. I don't recognize the publisher (Gollancz) but I thought it odd particularly because I recognize the author and have seen his Del Rey published books in quite a few stores.

Hard to guess why the info on Amazon.co.uk (here) isn't porting over to Amazon.com. I wonder if it's because it's an import rather than a US edition? Not that even that makes much sense!
 

Lillie

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Mmmm.

I remember Gollancz.

Back in the 70s, I'd come home with a stack of bright yellow books after my first forays into the adult section of the library.

It was the first publisher that I actively looked out for, because those books were so recognisable. A yellow spine would draw me like a bee to a flower.

Good times :)
 

fadeaccompli

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Hard to guess why the info on Amazon.co.uk (here) isn't porting over to Amazon.com. I wonder if it's because it's an import rather than a US edition? Not that even that makes much sense!

Rivers of London is published under a completely different title in the US. Specifically, it's called Midnight Riot there. (I think the UK title is better, but I do not know how to market books, so I defer to the experts on that one.) Maybe that's the issue?
 
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