Diction, Grammar and Syntax

I doont c any pooblems wit the dicshon gramps or stax in dat sentans.

IMHO
It would appear to be a fundamental misunderstanding of the meaning of the words "intrigue" and/or "interest".

A Diction problem in the sense of "choice and use of words in writing, in this case bad choice or incorrect use.

Syntax or Grammar? I don't think so.

Sea Witch said:

Question:

I found this sentence in a work that I'm beta-ing. Clearly it makes no sense. Now let's set aside voice/style/everything else and just look at the last 3 words. Now keep in mind, this is a YA book, and I'm not going to rewrite it--I'm just trying to make it......at least make sense.

"The whole thing continued to intrigue her interest."

My comment was to do this:

"The whole thing continued to intrigue her interest."

My question is this: Is this problem above a problem with Diction, Grammar, or Syntax?

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You can pique someone's interest, but you can't intrigue it, so you got it right. I'd say it's a problem with word meaning, or syntax, if you prefer.

Maybe "she continued to find the whole thing intriguing" would be better.

Sorry to disagree with everyone, but I think it's a phrase that's sometimes used (rather than one the author's dreamt up). I'm not saying that I'd use it or that it makes sense, but it is something I've seen written in a professional context.

Sea Witch said:

My question is this: Is this problem above a problem with Diction, Grammar, or Syntax?

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It's redundancy. So I'd say it falls under diction.

Drice said:

IMHO
It would appear to be a fundamental misunderstanding of the meaning of the words "intrigue" and/or "interest".

A Diction problem in the sense of "choice and use of words in writing, in this case bad choice or incorrect use.

Syntax or Grammar? I don't think so.

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This. It's a case of not knowing the meaning/use of "intrigue."

Kenn said:

Sorry to disagree with everyone, but I think it's a phrase that's sometimes used (rather than one the author's dreamt up). I'm not saying that I'd use it or that it makes sense, but it is something I've seen written in a professional context.

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It was incorrect there, too, then. "Intrigue her interest" is an incorrect redundancy, since "intrigue" means "to attract/arouse/draw one's interest."

Kenn said:

Sorry to disagree with everyone, but I think it's a phrase that's sometimes used (rather than one the author's dreamt up). I'm not saying that I'd use it or that it makes sense, but it is something I've seen written in a professional context.

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It's wrong, and makes no sense, wherever you read it. Because someone else uses rotten grammar somewhere else is no reason to use it yourself.

And you'll have to show me a professional who actually used it. That's not a professional I'd want to read. Though God knows in today's publishing world, all sorts of people call themselves professionals.

It probably is a diction problem, if you're a modern American. I grew up when and where syntax meant both the order of words, and the choice of a particular word.

Stacia Kane said:

...It was incorrect there, too, then. "Intrigue her interest" is an incorrect redundancy, since "intrigue" means "to attract/arouse/draw one's interest."

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Jamesaritchie said:

It's wrong, and makes no sense, wherever you read it. Because someone else uses rotten grammar somewhere else is no reason to use it yourself.

And you'll have to show me a professional who actually used it...

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Firstly, I'm not advocating its use. Secondly, you have to understand that this (your) meaning of intrigue is relatively modern (at least I believe it is) and the expression probably predates it.

James, it shouldn't be too difficult for you to find an author who's used it just from Googling around a bit.

Kenn said:

Secondly, you have to understand that this (your) meaning of intrigue is relatively modern (at least I believe it is) and the expression probably predates it.

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I don't believe it is, though.

(According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, the "arouse interest" meaning dates from 1904. So again, sorry, I can't see a usage over 100 years old as "modern" in this case.)

The only previous usages of the word related to intrigue, the noun, as in a conspiracy or clandestine meetings. I can't see how "intrigue her interest" would be correct usage with that meaning, either.

I'd love to know where you saw it.

I would call less than a hundred years or so modern, but it's obviously subjective.

A very quick internet search brings it up in William MacLeod Raine's A Man Four-Square written in 1919 (he was a prolific author of Westerns and this one was made into a film). Arthur K Barnes also used it in The Hothouse World written in 1937 (he was an important figure in science fiction and a widely published author). Even dictionary.com gives 'intrigue' as an example in this sense (with interest).

I don't know where it originates, but it is the kind of thing you could imagine someone like Shakespeare saying (I don't think he did, by the way). My point is just that the English language is littered with phrases from times gone by that make little sense in the modern age. To then start dismissing them because the meanings of words have changed is to discard literary heritage.

Is 'intrigued her interest' one such example? I don't know, but it seems to be used widely enough that I don't think it can be regarded as just an illiteracy.

Ah, I see what you mean by "modern." But modern usage, in that case, is what we were discussing, and in that usage it is incorrect.

I don't think we can call something "widely used" when the most recent example of it as "correct" use is seventy-five years old.

If it has been in a modern novel, I'd bet money that either the copyeditor changed it and the author stetted it, or the copyeditor wasn't very good.

To be fair, it was the most recent example that I came up with during a very quick search.

I suspect it's an 'old fashioned' expression, but does that mean to say it's wrong because it's become less common? I don't think so. Adding the 'interest' bit might make it a pleonasm nowadays, but the English language is littered with these.

Maybe an editor would prefer it to be changed, but it's a bit of an unfair argument saying they're useless if they don't