Eastern Faiths

aruna · Dec 10, 2005

Anyone care to discuss?
Hinduism, Vedanta, Buddhism, Taoism, Zen... etc etc.

slobbit · Dec 10, 2005

I'm willing to discuss. I'm writing what I guess would be called a magic realism story, and while I don't come out and say the Shrine is a Shinto shrine, or the meditations are zazen, or the directional tabus are fung shui, well--they are.

My dilemma is since I'm writing an alternate history I don't want to come out and say something like "That figured. Nara-bo was from a Tendai sect temple, and that's what they all believed over there," and portray something misleading because: 1. I don't know the finer points well enough, or 2. I've had to deal with some slight modifications to fit my worldview.

But yeah, I can discuss Japanese Buddhism, Shinto, shugendo, and Tao.

SLake · Nov 30, 2006

aruna said:
Anyone care to discuss?
Hinduism, Vedanta, Buddhism, Taoism, Zen... etc etc.

Discuss? Do you mean that you have a bone-to-pick, questions maybe, or do you just want to watch people write stuff?

Buddha said that he didn't want people following his beliefs blindly, but he wanted them to think for themselves. But given my experiences with Buddhism, it appears they all wear the robes, don't have sex, and they're vegetarians. I could mistake them for Jehovah's Witnesses, even Bahai, if it weren't for their costumes, but admittedly, Buddhist works are more detailed.

How's that for starters?

SLake · Dec 3, 2006

SLake said:
Discuss? Do you mean that you have a bone-to-pick, questions maybe, or do you just want to watch people write stuff?

Buddha said that he didn't want people following his beliefs blindly, but he wanted them to think for themselves. But given my experiences with Buddhism, it appears they all wear the robes, don't have sex, and they're vegetarians. I could mistake them for Jehovah's Witnesses, even Bahai, if it weren't for their costumes, but admittedly, Buddhist works are more detailed.

How's that for starters?

Decidedly unspiritual...?

aruna · Dec 3, 2006

Definitely not bone to pick. More about practice.

SLake · Dec 3, 2006

Practice. A concept meaning repetition. I wonder if there's been anything new since the Vedas, except more practice.

Sorry I'm cynical about religion, East, West, North and South. Science too and definitely politics, and I'm not absolutely sure about myself either

I hope someone can extend the dialogue for you in a more traditionally acceptable and practiced way.

aruna · Dec 3, 2006

SLake said:
Practice. A concept meaning repetition. I wonder if there's been anything new since the Vedas, except more practice.

Sorry I'm cynical about religion, East, West, North and South. Science too and definitely politics, and I'm not absolutely sure about myself either I hope someone can extend the dialogue for you in a more traditionally acceptable and practiced way.

It doesn't really matter. I don't need it (dialogue). And yes, repetition is the way, till we get it right. A bit like Groundhog Day!

SLake · Dec 4, 2006

aruna said:
It doesn't really matter. I don't need it (dialogue). And yes, repetition is the way, till we get it right. A bit like Groundhog Day!

Yep

Tedium · Jan 11, 2008

IMHO, perception is the only required practice, at least as far as Buddhism and Taoism are concerned. Over time, many things were added to these religions. The core, however, still remains perception. The ability to see and asess the world around you.

Buddha just sat down, calmed himself, and waited for the scales to fall from his eyes. I can't imagine that he did much more. He experienced an epiphany, a revelation, a "No shi-, Sherlock" moment. Of course the world was a certain way and of course there was something he could do to make it more bearable.

That is what I have come to find anyway.

dadburnett · Jan 11, 2008

aruna said:
Anyone care to discuss?
Hinduism, Vedanta, Buddhism, Taoism, Zen... etc etc.

Taking a lead from the "Gandhi" quote you use ... what is it you want to see in such a discussion?

DarkKnightJRK · Jan 11, 2008

I've been curious about Zen. I'm not really sure about the spiritual stuff, but the idea of meditation, clearing the mind, that kind of thing facinates me and I think could help me out.

Shweta · Jan 11, 2008

I have a love-hate relationship with the Eastern religions myself. Just like everywhere else, I see some wonderful insights papered over with layers and layers of social normativity.

I am fascinated by the insights, hate the social normativity. I tend to identify as a Hindu heretic, partly because, well, Hindu women aren't supposed to even be looking for truth behind this stuff. Which I think is such nonsense.

However, I think as a historical phenomenon, as writer-fodder, the socially normative aspects might be the best bits. It's quite hard to write interesting fiction about altered states, I find; but the different social/cultural aspects have endless possibilities.

I really want to write something set in the period between Vedic (Indo-European) polytheism and the Ganges Valley civilization with its trinity and reincarnation and all that.

aruna · Jan 26, 2008

DarkKnightJRK said:
I've been curious about Zen. I'm not really sure about the spiritual stuff, but the idea of meditation, clearing the mind, that kind of thing facinates me and I think could help me out.

Zen is not the only practice for clearing the mind r meditation, but seems the most well known in the West. I need to write a book called Vedanta and the Art of Computer Maintenance, to get people out of the Zen-timeloop! But then, I know nothing about Computer Maintenance...

aruna · Jan 26, 2008

Shweta said:
I have a love-hate relationship with the Eastern religions myself. Just like everywhere else, I see some wonderful insights papered over with layers and layers of social normativity.

Click to expand...

I stick with the wonderful insights, ignore the destructiveness and obvious unspirituality of many Hindu so-called traditions, such as caste cruelty. The latter, as I see it, are typical power issues and really have nothing to do with real Vedanta.

I am fascinated by the insights, hate the social normativity. I tend to identify as a Hindu heretic, partly because, well, Hindu women aren't supposed to even be looking for truth behind this stuff. Which I think is such nonsense.

Click to expand...

(my bold)
Shweta, that is not entirely true. I personally know at least five female Hindus (and have seen, in flesh and blood, and been impressed by, four of them) who are recognized as absolute authorities as Vedantic teachers, with huge followings of Hindu men and greatly respected in India. I can PM you their names if you like. Two of them are still alive. The other three never left India but are quite famous there for their wisdom and compassion. True, it might be difficult in some Hindu communities for a woman to show interest in anything beyond weddings and domestic management, but the wonderful thing about Hinduism is that whatever you can claim about it, the very opposite is also true.

I personally am not much interested in the normative aspects you mention, and as a non-Hindu they are also not important for me to know. And yet no other society, I find is as basically female as Hindu-India; I mean with that, that so-called female values seem to be at the very base of that culture.

And I have the highest respect even for "normal" Hindu women. No other women have so made me aware of my own strength and value as a woman as the ones I met when I first went to India. I left there as a completely different person; and it is actually Indian women who taught me self esteem. It's a phenomenon hard to describe, but for me it was absolutely true.

However, I think as a historical phenomenon, as writer-fodder, the socially normative aspects might be the best bits. It's quite hard to write interesting fiction about altered states, I find; but the different social/cultural aspects have endless possibilities.

Click to expand...

Have you read anything by Meera Syal? You should! I recently read Life isn't All Ha Ha Hee Hee... which sounds like a very silly book but is actually excellent, well written and all about the domestic norms you describe, and women who break away from them. Though I took issue with some of the things Syal says about Hinduism in that book... living in England, I think she has not grasped some aspects of her own religion and makes some claims about it that I, as a non-Hindu, know to be wrong!

Shweta · Jan 26, 2008

aruna said:
Shweta, that is not entirely true. I personally know at least five female Hindus (and have seen, in flesh and blood, and been impressed by, four of them) who are recognized as absolute authorities as Vedantic teachers, with huge followings of Hindu men and greatly respected in India. I can PM you their names if you like.

Oh, I should have been clearer -- I was talking about women's historical role rather than current role. We're getting beyond many of the worst traditions now, I'm sure, and obviously even historically we've had figures like Mirabai. But the traditions and rituals make it pretty clear what womens' place was supposed to be!

I personally am not much interested in the normative aspects you mention, and as a non-Hindu they are also not important for me to know. And yet no other society, I find is as basically female as Hindu-India; I mean with that, that so-called female values seem to be at the very base of that culture.

Certainly the notion of Shakti is a principally female one, and that interests me a great deal. It's not how things were, though, growing up as a Hindu girl -- I had to move to the States to find out that Hindu female figures weren't always supposed to be meek!

Have you read anything by Meera Syal? You should! I recently read Life isn't All Ha Ha Hee Hee... which sounds like a very silly book but is actually excellent, well written and all about the domestic norms you describe, and women who break away from them. Though I took issue with some of the things Syal says about Hinduism in that book... living in England, I think she has not grasped some aspects of her own religion and makes some claims about it that I, as a non-Hindu, know to be wrong!

I'll look it up. I know exactly what you mean, though, about the outsider seeing things the insider doesn't. Kept happening to me when I went back to India

aruna · Jan 26, 2008

Shweta said:
Certainly the notion of Shakti is a principally female one, and that interests me a great deal. It's not how things were, though, growing up as a Hindu girl -- I had to move to the States to find out that Hindu female figures weren't always supposed to be meek!

And think of Draupadi, in the Mahabharata! Five highly desirable husbands, each one willing to do her bidding the moment she raised a little finger. And the whole war fought because she was insulted.

Shweta · Jan 26, 2008

aruna said:
And think of Draupadi, in the Mahabharata! Five highly desirable husbands, each one willing to do her bidding the moment she raised a little finger. And the whole war fought because she was insulted.

Yes, but her place is firmly established. She may be a cosseted wife, but any power she has is because her husbands protect her.

And when the Pandavas find out about Karna? They don't blame themselves, they blame their mother. Obviously it's a woman's fault.

There's all sorts of insidious nastiness in there.

aruna · Jan 26, 2008

Not to mention Sita having to walk through fire to prove her chastity.

Shweta · Jan 26, 2008

And then getting dumped anyway.
Grrr.

(Should finish writing my Sitayana story, I really should)

aruna · Jan 26, 2008

well, I have had the audacity to rewrite the Mahabharata.

Shweta · Jan 26, 2008

aruna said:
well, I have had the audacity to rewrite the Mahabharata.

Death Wizard · Jan 26, 2008

I'm a Buddhist. Buddhism is about walking the path, not talking about walking the path. So you can't really judge Buddhism on what you've read about it or heard people say about it. You have to to judge it based on what you feel once you've actually walked the path for awhile.

Don't get me wrong. I don't mean this as chastisement for anything that's been said up to now. I'm just making my own points.

aruna · Jan 26, 2008

deathwizard said:
I'm a Buddhist. Buddhism is about walking the path, not talking about walking the path. So you can't really judge Buddhism on what you've read about it or heard people say about it. You have to to judge it based on what you feel once you've actually walked the path for awhile.

.

Same for Vedanta, especially the Advaita aspect of it. It's actually silence, not talking at all. And actually, I'm quite happy that Vedanta never achieved the populist appreciation that Buddhism did; it's far less crowded here. It also means that everyone mentions Buddhism or Zen when they talk about "Godless" religions, especially atheists. It means that you Buddhists get a lot more talkers!
However, even within an established practice an exchange can be fruitful and helpful and should not be ruled out. This is why I started this thread.

blacbird · Jan 26, 2008

The most powerful Eastern faith in the United States is belief in the Boston Red Sox.

caw

Death Wizard · Jan 27, 2008

aruna said:
Same for Vedanta, especially the Advaita aspect of it. It's actually silence, not talking at all. And actually, I'm quite happy that Vedanta never achieved the populist appreciation that Buddhism did; it's far less crowded here. It also means that everyone mentions Buddhism or Zen when they talk about "Godless" religions, especially atheists. It means that you Buddhists get a lot more talkers!
However, even within an established practice an exchange can be fruitful and helpful and should not be ruled out. This is why I started this thread.

I agree entirely. Sorry, I wasn't trying to sound weird about it. I do find, however, that the people in Upstate South Carolina (where I live) aren't the best people to have exchanges with!

Eastern Faiths

On a wing and a prayer

On a wing and a prayer

On a wing and a prayer

Le sigh.

Gonzo Journalist

Sick and absent

On a wing and a prayer

On a wing and a prayer

Sick and absent

On a wing and a prayer

Sick and absent

On a wing and a prayer

Sick and absent

On a wing and a prayer

Sick and absent

Tumhe na koci puujetha

On a wing and a prayer

Tumhe na koci puujetha