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P.H.Delarran
12-10-2005, 04:16 AM
..and nobody told you?
Would you know?



~P.H., quoting Forrest Gump, "Stupid is as Stupid does."

Perks
12-10-2005, 04:28 AM
Are you suggesting we take up calling people stupid as a community service. The idea has merit...


;)

three seven
12-10-2005, 04:29 AM
Sometimes I wish I was stupid. Life would be so much simpler.

Puddle Jumper
12-10-2005, 04:33 AM
That's not very p.c. How about "intellectually challenged?"

I probably wouldn't have my college degree and the nice job I have now. I could be very high in debt because I wouldn't know when to stop spending and using credit cards. (I heard of a couple not long ago who had over $100,000 in credit card debt.) I probably wouldn't have a driver's license because I would have failed the test.

That's not to say I don't do an say stupid things every now and then. I usually feel stupid afterwards so I would say I would probably know without anyone telling me. Usually though if someone feels the need to tell you that you are stupid, they themselves are truly the ones guilty of such. We tend to point out the flaws in others when we're incapable of seeing them in ourselves - I think. They usually call other people names to make themselves feel better and superior. So if someone pointed it out to me, I would actually be bouncing their words back at them mentally and not letting them soak in. :)

Yasureyabetcha!

clara bow
12-10-2005, 04:34 AM
The sobering part of it is, some people who are developmentally disabled or academically challenged *are* aware of their cognitive limitations. As a therapist, I've worked with several clients who have demonstrated insight into the fact that they will never be able to grasp certain things. It's pretty heartbreaking to hear, especially when you've had access to testing and other info that corroborates their personal experiences. They're not kidding, and it would by lying to try and reassure them otherwise. I usually try to help them remember the talents and abilities they do have.

three seven
12-10-2005, 04:35 AM
That's not very p.c. How about "intellectually challenged?"That's what stupid people call themselves, proving that they do indeed know they're stupid.

writerterri
12-10-2005, 04:41 AM
Stupid is as stupid does. Why do you need someone to tell you. *grin*

Puddle Jumper
12-10-2005, 04:42 AM
The sobering part of it is, some people who are developmentally disabled or academically challenged *are* aware of their cognitive limitations. As a therapist, I've worked with several clients who have demonstrated insight into the fact that they will never be able to grasp certain things. It's pretty heartbreaking to hear, especially when you've had access to testing and other info that corroborates their personal experiences. They're not kidding, and it would by lying to try and reassure them otherwise. I usually try to help them remember the talents and abilities they do have.
I used to think I was stupid and found it very despressing, namely in the areas of math and science. Then I was in a college science class and not doing well at all (D's on my first two tests). The professor asked if there was anything he could do. So for the third test I decided to actually "study" instead of thinking I knew everything from class lectures. I got 103% on that test and ended up getting an A for the class. It was then that I learned I wasn't stupid, just unmotivated, and my self-esteem skyrocketed. So to coin the phrase from "Back to the Future," I learned that if I put my mind to it, I could accomplish anything.

Okay, so I still struggle with math. I accept the fact that I utilize the creative side of my brain more than the analytical. :D

three seven
12-10-2005, 04:46 AM
I got 103% on that testOut of interest, what did you get on the math test?

Puddle Jumper
12-10-2005, 04:48 AM
There was extra credit on that test which is why my percentage could be higher than 100%. Not only did I get all the test answers right, I got the extra credit questions right as well. :Shrug: Sheesh.

Gehanna
12-10-2005, 04:52 AM
Some of the stupidest individuals I ever met were also the most intelligent.

Cathy C
12-10-2005, 04:54 AM
:idea: I remember a comic strip about this very subject from years ago. I remember it because it really made me think about concepts of intelligence.

It was about a little girl complaining to her father about a classmate who thought he was absolutely the smartest person in the world, but really -- he was quite stupid so it was annoying to the girl when he was bragging.

Her father sat her down and explained that the boy really WAS the smartest person in the world -- to HIM, because he truly couldn't conceive anyone smarter than he was.

The little girl thought for a panel and then hung her head. "I really wish I hadn't understood that."

It made me smile, because it's so very true. So the answer to your question is -- probably not.

Puddle Jumper
12-10-2005, 04:56 AM
Some of the stupidest individuals I ever met were also the most intelligent.
Define stupid.

three seven
12-10-2005, 04:59 AM
I think what she meant was that most clever people are blessed with either intellect or common sense, but rarely both.

William Haskins
12-10-2005, 05:04 AM
finally! a thread for me...

CaitlinK18
12-10-2005, 05:14 AM
I used to think I was stupid and found it very despressing, namely in the areas of math and science. Then I was in a college science class and not doing well at all (D's on my first two tests). The professor asked if there was anything he could do. So for the third test I decided to actually "study" instead of thinking I knew everything from class lectures. I got 103% on that test and ended up getting an A for the class. It was then that I learned I wasn't stupid, just unmotivated, and my self-esteem skyrocketed. So to coin the phrase from "Back to the Future," I learned that if I put my mind to it, I could accomplish anything.

Okay, so I still struggle with math. I accept the fact that I utilize the creative side of my brain more than the analytical. :D

I had the same problem in high school. I was horrible at math but at a college level in English, history and other subjects of a non-numerical nature. But fortunately I took some forensic science courses in college with a wonderful professor, and now I'm no longer scared of science.

Math still terrifies me.

I think if I was stupid I would be oblivious to other people's pain, emotional turmoil and whether or not they were telling me the truth. In a lot of ways, that would be nice. I think I'd be a sweet, extremely self-involved young woman. As it is, I'm a cynical, overanalytical young woman. But I like myself this way.

Unique
12-10-2005, 05:20 AM
finally! a thread for me...

so which one are you?

Celia Cyanide
12-10-2005, 05:20 AM
The sobering part of it is, some people who are developmentally disabled or academically challenged *are* aware of their cognitive limitations. As a therapist, I've worked with several clients who have demonstrated insight into the fact that they will never be able to grasp certain things. It's pretty heartbreaking to hear, especially when you've had access to testing and other info that corroborates their personal experiences. They're not kidding, and it would by lying to try and reassure them otherwise. I usually try to help them remember the talents and abilities they do have.

I don't know what we mean by stupid, but when I think of someone as geniunely stupid, I think of someone who isn't able to see their own limitations. I work with a guy who is developmentally disabled, and he catches his own mistakes much better than anyone else there. IMO, it seems to be because he's aware of his own limitations, and knows he might make mistakes sometimes. The rest of of think the sun shines out of our arses, and we don't pay attention.

Celia Cyanide
12-10-2005, 05:31 AM
Math still terrifies me.

The thing about math that bugs me is that I think you get to a certain point with it where you don't really need it, unless you're interested in persuing certain career paths. Everyone needs to know basic math, and it's good for your mind. But most of the advanced math I took in school is stuff I never even come close to using.

Schools usually treat art as unnecessary. And you don't really need to know it, unless you want to persue it. But I feel that calculus and most of geometry is the same way. And yet schools will drop the art curriculum, and keep pushing math. It does need to be taught, but I do sometimes wish they didn't place so much importance on it. Being bad at calc does not make you stupid, but with all the emphasis placed on it, I think a lot of students probably feel that way.

mkcbunny
12-10-2005, 06:01 AM
What if you were stupid ..and nobody told you?
Would you know?

Are you trying to tell me something?

arrowqueen
12-10-2005, 06:17 AM
See the happy moron.
He doesn't give a damn.
I wish I were a moron.
My God! Perhaps I am!

JoeEkaitis
12-10-2005, 07:11 AM
..and nobody told you?
Would you know?How might Mark Twain have put it? Hmmm. . .

No man who regularly interacts with the fairer sex need fear such a predicament.

StoryG27
12-10-2005, 05:23 PM
What if you were stupid..

What do mean, "What if..."

I'm smart enough to know I'm stupid.

robeiae
12-10-2005, 05:43 PM
Stupid people are easy to spot; they tend to travel in herds. Also, you can find them in long lines at Starbucks. They wait for ten to fifteen minutes to get to the counter, then say, "Hmmm, what do I want today..." Oh, and in movie theatres, they always remember to turn off their cell phones...after they go off halfway through the show.

Rob :)

Nicholas S.H.J.M Woodhouse
12-10-2005, 06:09 PM
i am a stupid man. i am the most stupid man. also, i believe i have one foot larger than the other. i don't even know which foot it is. i just know one is. and the other isn't.

Carole
12-10-2005, 06:43 PM
I think what she meant was that most clever people are blessed with either intellect or common sense, but rarely both.

My Father in law refers to them as college educated idiots. It's really strange, though. I have seen it many times. Someone with an impressive, framed certificate hanging on the wall behind their desk who can't figure out the mundane things in their lives. Interestingly enough, I see it more with the mathematically gifted than anyone else.

Math makes no sense to me. Numbers are a giant puzzle that make my eyes swirl. Since numbers are the universal language, what does that say about me?

three seven
12-10-2005, 06:46 PM
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

rtilryarms
12-10-2005, 06:53 PM
..and nobody told you?
Would you know?

If?

Carole
12-10-2005, 06:55 PM
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Yep..the latter would be me.

robeiae
12-10-2005, 07:00 PM
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Really, there are 100 types: those who think they understand binary but don't, those who don't and know they don't, those who do, and those that couldn't give a...

Rob :)

StoryG27
12-10-2005, 07:05 PM
Ok, I get it now. Binary CODE is with the 1's and 0's, but just saying binary by itself honestly made me think of my math classes, and I can't remember the actualy definition of it, I know it had to do with the number 2 or pairs or something like that...it was a long time I ago...I have no idea what anyone is talking about any more and was really lost until I remembered the computer code thing. Like I said, I'm smart enough to know I'm stupid...So stop confusing me!!!!

aruna
12-10-2005, 07:29 PM
The thing about math that bugs me is that I think you get to a certain point with it where you don't really need it, unless you're interested in persuing certain career paths. Everyone needs to know basic math, and it's good for your mind. But most of the advanced math I took in school is stuff I never even come close to using.

Schools usually treat art as unnecessary. And you don't really need to know it, unless you want to persue it. But I feel that calculus and most of geometry is the same way. And yet schools will drop the art curriculum, and keep pushing math. It does need to be taught, but I do sometimes wish they didn't place so much importance on it. Being bad at calc does not make you stupid, but with all the emphasis placed on it, I think a lot of students probably feel that way.

Oh, I couldn't agree more. I was terrible at everyting to do with numbers, but good at all the "word" subjects - English Lit and Languages - and art. Luckily, in the English school system that's fine; you're allowed to drop maths at a certain age (16) and continue only with your strong subjects.

My daughter was not so lucky. She grew up in Germany where the three main subects (German, Maths and one foreign language) are always averaged out and you have to maintain a B grade to ever think of getting a decent education. That's hard if you have a maths weakness, and depressing, as all your energy has to go to into that one weakness to keep your average up, and you cane never, ever get an A, no matter what. It's terrible for the self-esteem to be put in the school for stupid kids.

It's not just maths that can pull you down; that also means that a weakness for languages can also be your downfall in Germany. And that includes kids for whom German is a foreign language.
That's the reason we moved to England.

P.H.Delarran
12-10-2005, 08:47 PM
It was actually Aruna's thread about beauty that prompted this post. We are as smart as we think? Act? Is stupidity skin-deep?
And it was a recent bout of my own stupidity that prompted the original pondering.
It does open up a whole slew of philosophical questions about intelligence and our place in the universe, blah blah. Too deep. I'd rather think about Nique's mis-sized feet.

~P.H.D., who's initials do NOT represent her education.

My-Immortal
12-10-2005, 09:05 PM
Perhaps we should assume we are stupid and allow others to prove us wrong...rather than assume we are intelligent and allow others to prove us wrong....

Or something like that... :)

Take care all -

aruna
12-10-2005, 09:11 PM
Perhaps we should assume we are stupid and allow others to prove us wrong...rather than assume we are intelligent and allow others to prove us wrong....

Or something like that... :)

Take care all -

Whenever I've tried to do IQ tests I give up halfway because of al the maths problems. I just can't figure them out, and don't even try. I have no idea my IQ would be, based on such a test, but I'm sure its below average.

Carole
12-10-2005, 09:23 PM
Ok, since we are on the topic of *smarts*.

What do ya'll think about the people you see on TV who present themselves as an authority on something or other, but make mistakes that make YOU cringe?

I am a TV slob today. I rarely watch it, but for some reason I have had it on all day so far. Right now I have the box on the Style channel. Just now they profiled some *high dollar* wedding planner. She is supposedly among the best of the best. But she can't speak! In three minutes she said "They are just like my husband and I" (My husband and ME...ME ME ME!!! Why do people not know this??) and she also said **cringe** "So, they called in the calvary"

*sigh* If you are gonna be on TV, you would think you'd at least have a coach to tell you when you are being a dumbass.

My-Immortal
12-10-2005, 09:45 PM
Whenever I've tried to do IQ tests I give up halfway because of al the maths problems. I just can't figure them out, and don't even try. I have no idea my IQ would be, based on such a test, but I'm sure its below average.

I actually did very well in math in school - too well sometimes. In 3rd grade there was a minimum amount of math pages we had to accomplish each week (but no maximum). I loved writing, but I also loved math, and so math geek that I was, I'd finish a math book in a week or so (rather than in 3-4 months like everyone else). The teacher gave me a second math book and I finished in a couple of weeks. A third, the same.

After that, she refused to let me do any more math until after Christmas vacation. I was able to do other homework during math class instead (or write stories which I liked).

After Christmas break, I got a new math book and finished it quickly. Got another one on a Friday and my dad bet me that I couldn't finish it in a weekend. I won the bet (though the teacher wasn't too happy when I came back on that Monday and turned in a couple hundred pages of math for her to grade). She gave me another book and I finished it quickly which really upset her (which was kinda fun to do - she wasn't a 'friendly' person) so she decided not to let me do any more math for the rest of the year.

4th grade - finished a lot of math books and was finally told I couldn't do any more for the year.

5th grade - ditto

6th grade - the grade school finally ran out of math books and brought over an Algebra book from the junior high. My teacher didn't know Algebra so I had to teach myself. Finished that book and a second Algebra book too. They wouldn't give me a geometry book from the high school so I didn't do any more math that year.

Got into junior high and the math book was the first Algebra book I'd already finished. I told the teacher but she didn't care and said I'd have to do it all over again...and that they were ONLY going to do one math book for the entire year.

8th grade - math was the second Algebra book I'd already finished.

(So, for two years I really didn't learn any 'new' math - and they refused to let me take anything else during those time periods.)

High school math slowed me down a little and finally, during my senior year of high school I got into Calc...and I didn't like it. I got good grades in it but by then I'd had enough. I knew I'd always wanted to be a writer and I realized I was really only doing the math because it gave my parents hope that I'd 'do something else' (besides write).

I've turned that drive to do math into a drive to write. I don't have as much free time now as I did when I was a kid - but I'm still able to set some steep goals for myself and usually meet them.

Take care all - whether you like math or not. :)

PeeDee
12-10-2005, 10:08 PM
This thread is stupid!

There, I told you. :banana:

*runs away*


I'll behave...

threedogpeople
12-10-2005, 11:46 PM
..and nobody told you?
Would you know?


~P.H., quoting Forrest Gump, "Stupid is as Stupid does."

High IQs don't guarantee high emotional intelligence quotents (EQ); ditto on social intelligence (SQ). I have met lots of people with advanced degrees that weren't successful in the work force because they are social or emotional clods. I have also met people that had lower than average IQs that had very high EQs and SQs.

So I think it all depends on "how" you define intelligence, if your SQ and EQ were high but your IQ was low, I think that you would know that your IQ was low. If your SQ, EQ and IQ were low then I don't think you would be aware of the differences.

Judy

P.H.Delarran
12-10-2005, 11:50 PM
This thread is stupid!

There, I told you. :banana:

*runs away*


I'll behave...
if I catch you, can I beat you with a stupid-stick?

PeeDee
12-11-2005, 12:07 AM
Sure. My neighbors are home, and they've got a load of stupid-lumber right next to their pile of ugly-logs. I'll go see if I can borrow one for you. :)

Optimus
12-11-2005, 02:17 AM
There was actually a study in 2000 on why stupid people don't know that they're stupid. ("Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments" by Justin Kruger and David Dunning, in Journal of Personality and Social Psychology)

It won psychology's version of the Nobel. It's an interesting read.

If anyone's interested, I could email it to you.

I also have the followup study on why smart people do stupid things ("Why smart people can be so foolish" by Robert Sternberg, in European Psychologist). It's pretty much a checklist for me. ;)

PeeDee
12-11-2005, 02:25 AM
Am v. interested, and would love to read it!

reph
12-11-2005, 02:50 AM
aruna posted a link to the research report, twice (I think).

Optimus
12-11-2005, 02:53 AM
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

:ROFL:

I actually got that joke.

Optimus
12-11-2005, 02:54 AM
aruna posted a link to the research report, twice (I think).

In this thread?

PeeDee, PM me your email addy and I'll send the studies to you (do you want both of them?). They're in pdf format, though, so if you don't have a pdf reader, then you won't be able to open them.

Gehanna
12-11-2005, 03:37 AM
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.


I don't get it.

Optimus
12-11-2005, 03:51 AM
Someone tried to PM me, but my box was full. I've since emptied it.

Gehanna, check your rep points. ;)

reph
12-11-2005, 05:25 AM
In this thread?
No. At least one link was on the Novels forum. I don't remember what the topic started as. From a member's profile, you can find all the person's posts, but aruna has too many to make a check practical.

Gehanna
12-11-2005, 06:07 AM
"So I see" said the blind man to his wife who could not hear.

The above comes from something (meaning it didn't come from me) but, I can't remember who, what or even where.

Thank you Optimus. :)

My-Immortal
12-11-2005, 06:23 AM
"I see," said the blind man to his deaf wife over the phone as he stood pi$$ing into the wind, "it's all coming back to me now."

(at least that's how I've heard that phrase...)

Take care all - :)

Puddle Jumper
12-11-2005, 11:41 AM
What if you were stupid..

What do mean, "What if..."

I'm smart enough to know I'm stupid.
I like that responce the best. :)

Carole
12-11-2005, 05:19 PM
"So I see" said the blind man to his wife who could not hear.

The above comes from something (meaning it didn't come from me) but, I can't remember who, what or even where.


Where I grew up it was, "I see" said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.

Pat~
12-11-2005, 06:32 PM
..and nobody told you?
Would you know?


The sad thing is, in today's society you probably would know...someone would be sure to have told you at some point in your life (especially in elementary school).

Regarding personal stupidity, all I can say is I wish my wisdom exceeded my intellect...

Maryn
12-11-2005, 08:39 PM
That link is http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html

Maryn, who has too many bookmarks