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Captcha
01-04-2012, 04:08 AM
This may be too specific, so I won't go into a lot of detail until I see whether there's someone on the board who can help. But, basically...

I have a teenage MC in either Toronto or Vancouver (I can move her wherever the system would be easiest, plot wise) who has serious violence issues. She's been in trouble with the police several times, and also had trouble at school.

As the story opens, I want her to be being kicked out of school and forced into a community service/treatment program - this program, of course, is a front for a nefarious quasi-criminal organization, but the courts don't know that.

So, I'm trying to figure out how this would look. I think I'm okay on the kicked out of school part, but I'm not sure how to get her into the program. 42(2)(p) of the YCJA apparently provides for a deferred custody and supervision order, and there are conditions that go with that, so I'm assuming that one of the conditions, given that she's kicked out of school, could be attendance at this program. I think it's the judge who lays out the conditions of the order, but I'm assuming that s/he would do so in consultation with... somebody.

Does anyone know who that somebody is? And would it be the same somebody who supervises my MC's compliance with the order? And given that my MC has been in trouble in the past, is she likely to have already established a relationship with some sort of case worker, and might this case worker be the person who makes the recommendation to the judge?

Have I got anyof this right? Am I missing important aspects? Thanks for any help...

Xelebes
01-04-2012, 04:29 AM
Does the court not know or does the jedge know where he is throwing the child? We have a case or two of that in Calgary, although the judges have not been identified nor have there been formal accusations made. What is the kind of quasi-criminal organisation you are thinking of? A behaviour modification treatment program or attachment therapy program?

Sea Witch
01-04-2012, 04:35 AM
I don't know the answer to your question, and perhaps a cop or lawyer will weigh in. I do, however, know well the guy in Calgary who does all the risk assessment for the Calgary Board of Education and frequently consults with the court on these issues in Calgary anyway. If you want, PM me, and I'll see if I can dig up his email address.

Captcha
01-04-2012, 04:38 AM
Xelebes - No, the story's a bit more fanciful - the shadow organization are... I'm still working out details, but I think assassins, or equivalent. Kind of La Femme Nikita, but not quite as glamorous. So I'd like it if no one involved in the legal system knew what they were.

They want to recruit my MC because of her use of casual violence and apparent psychopathy, but I don't want her to be some sort of 'special snowflake' of assassin-potential, so there should be other recruits, as well, in different stages of training. The idea is that they get her involved in whatever the front for the organization is (I'm thinking maybe a gym, or something else that would allow her to harness her aggression) and then gradually expose her to the shadowy parts.

Sea Witch - do you know if your friend deals with the criminal side of things, or is it more about whether the offender stays in school or not?

Sea Witch
01-04-2012, 05:17 AM
...Sea Witch - do you know if your friend deals with the criminal side of things, or is it more about whether the offender stays in school or not?

Yes, he deals with criminal stuff all the time, which is why I mentioned him (in addition to private practice, school board stuff, psych testing, and consulting on custody cases). I don't know if you're Canadian or not, but there was a famous case a few years ago in Saskatchewan concerning a teen girl who murdered her parents with her teen boyfriend (I think--the details are foggy to me); anyway, he was the consultant for the defense.

Xelebes
01-04-2012, 05:23 AM
Yes, he deals with criminal stuff all the time, which is why I mentioned him (in addition to private practice, school board stuff, psych testing, and consulting on custody cases). I don't know if you're Canadian or not, but there was a famous case a few years ago in Saskatchewan concerning a teen girl who murdered her parents with her teen boyfriend (I think--the details are foggy to me); anyway, he was the consultant for the defense.

The Medicine Hat case? The guy was 22, I believe.

Captcha
01-04-2012, 05:28 AM
I'm Canadian, but in Ontario. I think I missed that case. Sounds nasty.

Let's wait and see who else shows up, here - I'm apparently more comfortable inconveniencing total strangers on a message board than inconveniencing total strangers via e-mail. But if I'm stuck, I might take you up on your offer, Sea Witch. Thanks!

Sea Witch
01-04-2012, 06:04 AM
The Medicine Hat case? The guy was 22, I believe.

Yes, perhaps you're right. The details escape me other than the girl was quite young.....

Phyllo
01-06-2012, 04:24 AM
Maybe I'm missing something (my work as defence counsel was mainly under the old Young Offenders Act -- anybody else ... ?) but if the young person has been charged and found guilty, then it is the Youth Court Judge who makes the disposition/sentencing order.


Before making the order the Judge first listens to the arguments from the Assistant Crown Attorney and Defence Lawyer (or they may be making what's known as a joint submission). The Crown will also likely have spoken to the police officer in charge of the case (the "OIC") to get their recommendation.

If there are special concerns or it is a complex matter, then the Judge may order a pre-disposition report which involves a probation officer meeting with the young person and interviewing her parents and others involved/effected by the crime. The PDR will then be entered as evidence at the sentencing.

Most young people are placed on conditions as part of their disposition (rather than strict jail time) because it's believed that the "guidance" of conditions helps to rehabilitate.


In terms of the young person being ordered to perform service for some organization, that can happen through, say, a community service order (e.g., that the youth perform a specified number of hours at a food bank) or if there`s a specific condition to that effect.

I don`t know how helpful you find this, but I suspect that if you were to call the local Youth Crown`s office and explain any specific questions you have, they`d likely be willing to answer.

Captcha
01-06-2012, 04:54 AM
An excellent start, Phyllo, and you're probably right. I'll give them a call!