Horrible critique

Donna Brown · Jan 2, 2012

So, I have no idea where to post this so I'm trying here. If it's wrong, someone please let me know. I HAD a supposed friend who discussed with me on my Facebook page her reluctance to post a critique of my book on Amazon because she didn't really like it. I assured her (in public) that it was not necessary for her to like the book and that, in fact, it was my understanding that less than stellar reviews often made a writer look more credible. I told her that she should only post an Amazon review if she felt comfortable doing so; otherwise, I was fine with nothing from her. So this evening I went to Amazon to check out my book's statistics and found the most horrible review ever from her. She commented on things that were not even in the book and said something to the effect that she looked forward to seeing a much better written, revised copy of my book. I waited several hours until I had calmed down, then emailed her to let her know that what she said was not a critique of the book but a personal attack (several other people I know contacted me to say the same thing). She subsequently deleted her original comment and left something just as snarky in its place. I wonder if anyone else would think a true friend would have refrained from such horrible behavior. I also wonder how the rest of you would have responded to this because I hate to think I was less than professional when I wrote to tell her that her comment was not a critique but a personal attack.

Donna Brown · Jan 2, 2012

So sorry "thing" in the next to last sentence should have been think and I fixed it.

Nissie · Jan 2, 2012

Did you know why she made a personal attack against you in the first place? Did an argument (maybe about the book, maybe not) happen before she told you she wanted to add a review? How close are you both? It's a little odd for her to suddenly launch a diatribe against you without reason. What were examples of personal attacks she made, if you don't mind my asking (only if you're comfortable enough to share, of course)?

Cyia · Jan 2, 2012

The rule of thumb is "writers do not comment on reviews, no matter what".

Killgore · Jan 2, 2012

Can you link to it and/or post the original review? I really cant judge without seeing it.

CrastersBabies · Jan 2, 2012

She commented on her facebook, not the review. She emailed the friend.

I have to ask how old this person is. 12?

First off, if I read a book by a friend and it sucked, I wouldn't post a review. If it really did suck, someone else can post it w/o me compromising my friendship here. Chances are, I would have read it before publication and might have told them my honest opinion. No reason I need to go shout it from the rooftops too. My friends wear their big girl/big boy underpants. They make their decisions w/or w/out critique.

Second, doing the whole dance with you, "should I post, I didn't like it.. wahh wahh wahh." WTF is that?

Third, doesn't sound like she knows how to write reviews nor did she know what book she was reviewing?

Fourth, the removal of the original comment and addition of a snarky, asshole comment proves that this person is, in fact, a complete idiot (or, as stated above, in the pre-teen age bracket).

Sounds like a whole lot of drama to me.

suki · Jan 2, 2012

Donna Brown - I'm not sure you are going to like my response.

First, "true friend would have refrained from such horrible behavior." Well, I think a true friend, having heard her reluctance to post, would not have encouraged her to do so. Or pushed her to. And, I feel, from reading your post, that she tried to tell you she didn't want to post and you pushed her into it.

From your post, it seems to me like she was trying to gracefully back out and you pushed her. Now, without reading the review, I can't say whether it would be a personal attack, but I think this is a lesson for you. When someone shows reluctance to review your book, take it as a very good sign that the review will be negative and they are trying, as a friend, to not cause you hurt. And say, thank you for not posting then.

Having told her she should feel free to post, even if negative, I would then not have contacted her to criticize her post. You asked her to post, stated you understood it wouldn't be positive. I think you should have then lived with the post.

Now, if the review actually did stray into personal attack, you need to decide if this person is a friend, and if you want to salvage the relationship. Then, if you do, once you can do so calmly, discuss with her your feelings. But, to be honest, it feels like she was trying to spare you and you pushed her into posting. And so....it's hard, in the abstract, to know if this really was a personal attack.

But maybe, for the future, when someone is trying to refrain from posting - let them.

~suki

Donna Brown · Jan 2, 2012

I don't mind you asking at all. Her original comments were directed at "the writer's" style and inability to create a credible story. She complained that the book was a historical novel about Texas that did not mention Mexican Americans (and after she said that, she actually said "Ugh!") She also said that the book needed to be totally rewritten after the author learned the basics of writing because there were so many long sentences that were unnecessary AND the author offered too much description. She ended her post by saying that she hoped to see a total rewrite as a new edition of the book BUT she actually liked it . . . wait. What?

Nissie said:
Did you know why she made a personal attack against you in the first place? Did an argument (maybe about the book, maybe not) happen before she told you she wanted to add a review? How close are you both? It's a little odd for her to suddenly launch a diatribe against you without reason. What were examples of personal attacks she made, if you don't mind my asking (only if you're comfortable enough to share, of course)?

Donna Brown · Jan 2, 2012

No. I'm sorry I cannot do this because she deleted her original post.

Killgore said:
Can you link to it and/or post the original review? I really cant judge without seeing it.

Donna Brown · Jan 2, 2012

I did NOT comment on her review. However, since she was a "friend," I did contact her to let her know that I thought her review was very hurtful. I think it's fair for a "friend" to contact another friend privately to say what is on her mind.

Cyia said:
The rule of thumb is "writers do not comment on reviews, no matter what".

suki · Jan 2, 2012

Donna Brown said:
I don't mind you asking at all. Her original comments were directed at "the writer's" style and inability to create a credible story. She complained that the book was a historical novel about Texas that did not mention Mexican Americans (and after she said that, she actually said "Ugh!") She also said that the book needed to be totally rewritten after the author learned the basics of writing because there were so many long sentences that were unnecessary AND the author offered too much description. She ended her post by saying that she hoped to see a total rewrite as a new edition of the book BUT she actually liked it . . . wait. What?

Ok...honestly? I don't see a personal attack in this. She criticized the writing, what she viewed as obvious omissions that hurt the credibility of the story, and she stated that she liked the story but hoped it would be re-written.

None of that honestly seems like a personal attack. A scathing review, sure. But she was critiquing the book. The writing and the credibility of the story. That feels like fair game, even if she was harsh.

~suki

BenPanced · Jan 2, 2012

Donna Brown said:
I don't mind you asking at all. Her original comments were directed at "the writer's" style and inability to create a credible story. She complained that the book was a historical novel about Texas that did not mention Mexican Americans (and after she said that, she actually said "Ugh!") She also said that the book needed to be totally rewritten after the author learned the basics of writing because there were so many long sentences that were unnecessary AND the author offered too much description. She ended her post by saying that she hoped to see a total rewrite as a new edition of the book BUT she actually liked it . . . wait. What?

suki said:
Ok...honestly? I don't see a personal attack in this. She criticized the writing, what she viewed as obvious omissions that hurt the credibility of the story, and she stated that she liked the story but hoped it would be re-written.

None of that honestly seems like a personal attack. A scathing review, sure. But she was critiquing the book. The writing and the credibility of the story. That feels like fair game, even if she was harsh.

~suki

Agreed. "The book was a historical novel about Texas that did not mention Mexican Americans" is not a personal attack. "The author is an idiot for writing a historical novel about Texas that did not mention Mexican Americans" is a personal attack.

Donna Brown · Jan 2, 2012

Please know that I like your response just fine.

What I said to her was that if she did not want to review, then she should not. Period. I understood that she was not crazy about the book and was not sure that she wanted to offer a review. I told her that most authors were okay with negative reviews but none of us (yes, I know I was speaking out of turn because I do not know how other authors feel) wanted to be attacked. I said, "*****, if you do not want to offer a review, that's fine. If you do, thank you." However, I do not think commenting on my inability to write is a real review. AND she did this to me one other time when I had a short story published in an ezine. She made a point of letting other people know that she did not think I was a good writer, etc. . . . I truly do not think the problem is mine.

suki said:
Donna Brown - I'm not sure you are going to like my response.

First, "true friend would have refrained from such horrible behavior." Well, I think a true friend, having heard her reluctance to post, would not have encouraged her to do so. Or pushed her to. And, I feel, from reading your post, that she tried to tell you she didn't want to post and you pushed her into it.

From your post, it seems to me like she was trying to gracefully back out and you pushed her. Now, without reading the review, I can't say whether it would be a personal attack, but I think this is a lesson for you. When someone shows reluctance to review your book, take it as a very good sign that the review will be negative and they are trying, as a friend, to not cause you hurt. And say, thank you for not posting then.

Having told her she should feel free to post, even if negative, I would then not have contacted her to criticize her post. You asked her to post, stated you understood it wouldn't be positive. I think you should have then lived with the post.

Now, if the review actually did stray into personal attack, you need to decide if this person is a friend, and if you want to salvage the relationship. Then, if you do, once you can do so calmly, discuss with her your feelings. But, to be honest, it feels like she was trying to spare you and you pushed her into posting. And so....it's hard, in the abstract, to know if this really was a personal attack.

But maybe, for the future, when someone is trying to refrain from posting - let them.

~suki

Donna Brown · Jan 2, 2012

Thank you for your response. I wish she had not deleted her original response so I could share it with you all.

When I asked other friends to look at it, they responded in the same way I did . . . why?

suki said:
Ok...honestly? I don't see a personal attack in this. She criticized the writing, what she viewed as obvious omissions that hurt the credibility of the story, and she stated that she liked the story but hoped it would be re-written.

None of that honestly seems like a personal attack. A scathing review, sure. But she was critiquing the book. The writing and the credibility of the story. That feels like fair game, even if she was harsh.

~suki

suki · Jan 2, 2012

Donna Brown said:
However, I do not think commenting on my inability to write is a real review.

Um, actually, this is exactly a real review - saying that the author is not a capable writer is, basically, at the heart of a review. And, if you told her to go ahead, and she actually thinks your writing skills are not up to publishable standards, then it's exactly what she should have written. maybe more tactfully, but it's not a personal attack. It's a review of her perception of your writing skills.

Donna Brown said:
AND she did this to me one other time when I had a short story published in an ezine. She made a point of letting other people know that she did not think I was a good writer, etc. . . . I truly do not think the problem is mine.

Um...then why is she your friend and why did you ask her to review! I'm serious here - she's done this before, and you give her permission to do it again?

Maybe she's not really a friend - and you will have to figure that one out. BUT...you shouldn't have invited her to review. You should have asked her not to.

ETA: I completely understand you are hurt - but you invited her to review, told her you understood it would not be positive, and she posted. And nothing you've posted yet looks like a personal attack. I totally understand you are hurt - but I honestly think there are lessons to be learned here for you - and I hope you will.

I'm not being sarcastic - she doesn't sound like a friend. But, in the future, do not invite reviews from people who seem hesitant. BUT, in my opinion, criticizing your writing skills and subject matter and execution are all fair game. learn from it and move on.

And improve.

~suki

Donna Brown · Jan 2, 2012

BenPanced, those were not her exact words (the author is an idiot . . . ), but it is exactly how I felt.

Thank you all so much for responding to me.

Cyia · Jan 2, 2012

I have to agree with Suki here. This was a legit review that focused on the writing, not the author. Focusing on you would be a personal attack, but that's not what you've described.

And, FWIW, the reviewers points are valid. If you're writing about historical Texas, and omit one of the largest populations in the state during that era, something's wrong with the book.

As to this:

When I asked other friends to look at it, they responded in the same way I did . . . why?

Because they're your friends, you were upset, and they wanted to defend you. It's what friends do, and it's why many writers have to "ban" friends and family from commenting on their work or interacting with those who do.

Donna Brown · Jan 2, 2012

Thank you so much for your response.

I didn't ask her to review. I did tell her that it was okay if she didn't like the book and that less than stellar reviews were acceptable (and I believe that). I also told her that no writer wants to be attacked and I think that is true.

As I said earlier, my concern would be much more credible had she not deleted her original post (and if that's how she felt, she should have left it on Amazon), but I cannot get it back so there's no way to prove my point that I felt attacked.

I think I am just frustrated that someone I have known for a long time feels that it's okay to do this. Maybe I'm asking why rather than asking you all to say it's wrong . . .

suki said:
Um, actually, this is exactly a real review - saying that the author is not a capable writer is, basically, at the heart of a review. And, if you told her to go ahead, and she actually thinks your writing skills are not up to publishable standards, then it's exactly what she should have written. maybe more tactfully, but it's not a personal attack. It's a review of her perception of your writing skills.

Um...then why is she your friend and why did you ask her to review! I'm serious here - she's done this before, and you give her permission to do it again?

Maybe she's not really a friend - and you will have to figure that one out. BUT...you shouldn't have invited her to review. You should have asked her not to.

~suki

Jessianodel · Jan 2, 2012

I'm going to have to agree with suki here. Those are really, really, really awful things to see as a writer, but I don't think they were a personal attack. She may not be your friend, but it was still just a review. Consider this; if a complete stranger posted the exact same thing, would you consider it a personal attack or just harsh?

At the same time it does sound odd that she was so mild before ("oh I didn't like it that much") and then her review is as scathing as that. But honestly it's up for you to decide if she's actually a sucky friend or you were just hurt by that one action.

mccardey · Jan 2, 2012

Aw...

Give yourself time: the sting will fade. And she did try to warn you what might be coming - she probably didn't mean to be hurtful. Sounds like she'd rather not have reviewed at all, and she wanted to avoid it in order to protect the friendship. That says something nice about both of you, doesn't it?

Donna Brown · Jan 2, 2012

You make some valid points here, except that the book is set post Civil War and deals with African Americans rather than Mexican Americans who were not part of the historical moment. The Civil War dealt with relations between African Americans and whites and not with Mexican Americans. Trust me, I did my research and understood the historical moment based on the people involved; however, that's really not my point. But thank you so, so much for your response. I'm honestly seeing that maybe I overreacted even though her original comments were not so nice.

Cyia said:
I have to agree with Suki here. This was a legit review that focused on the writing, not the author. Focusing on you would be a personal attack, but that's not what you've described.

And, FWIW, the reviewers points are valid. If you're writing about historical Texas, and omit one of the largest populations in the state during that era, something's wrong with the book.

As to this:

Because they're your friends, you were upset, and they wanted to defend you. It's what friends do, and it's why many writers have to "ban" friends and family from commenting on their work or interacting with those who do.

suki · Jan 2, 2012

Donna Brown said:
I think I am just frustrated that someone I have known for a long time feels that it's okay to do this. Maybe I'm asking why rather than asking you all to say it's wrong . . .

Ah...now that is a different question, and probably, frankly, the one you really need to be asking.

Because if I honestly, deep down, wanted to write something like this about a friend's book, I would either not write anything or I would share my concerns tactfully and privately. I would want to save my friend the public embarrassment. But not because the comments, from a stranger, would not be appropriate. But because I would not want to hurt or publicly shame my friend. But that is separate from the review itself.

So, whether this is actually a friend is a different question. One worth your pondering. One you will need to decide.

And why she did that is yet another question. Maybe one you want to discuss with her...if you decide this is a friendship, or a friendship worth keeping. But if it's not, then you might just need to lick your wounds, learn from the experience and move on.

~suki

LindaJeanne · Jan 2, 2012

Donna Brown said:
Maybe I'm asking why rather than asking you all to say it's wrong . . .

That's not something anyone is going to be able to answer about someone they've never met. It's hard enough to know why people do things when we know them (and easy to guess wrong). Sometimes it's hard to know why we ourselves do things.

It sounds like the Amazon review isn't the core of the problem here. It sounds like you're having significant problems with this maybe-a-friend, and the Amazon review just sort of crystallized your doubts. Is that a fair assessment?

About the review itself, I'm going to jump on the agree-with-Suki bandwagon. But I'm suspicious the review is only a symptom of what's really bothering you about the friendship, and not the root cause of your doubts.

Edited to add -- And... looks like I cross-posted with Suki

backslashbaby · Jan 2, 2012

Oh, it sounds so rude of her and hurtful to not try to be tactful at all!

Now, in truth, even great friends may think we are sucky writers

It's like arguing about your favorite movie, and it's really no more personal than that. It just feels that way because it's our passion.

She shouldn't have been so rude about it, though. No doubt

Hugs!

Donna Brown · Jan 2, 2012

This is not my first book and I've had scathing reviews from total strangers in the past. AND I've had people at book signings tell me to my face that my book sucked big time. I truly have developed tough skin over the years. Yes, I considered what she wrote a personal attack and again, I wish she hadn't deleted it, but she did. I cannot direct you all to it to prove my point, but I know what it said and I don't think my other friends are unwilling to tell me the truth. People saw the review and responded to me (not on Amazon, thank goodness) accordingly.

Jessianodel said:
I'm going to have to agree with suki here. Those are really, really, really awful things to see as a writer, but I don't think they were a personal attack. She may not be your friend, but it was still just a review. Consider this; if a complete stranger posted the exact same thing, would you consider it a personal attack or just harsh?

At the same time it does sound odd that she was so mild before ("oh I didn't like it that much") and then her review is as scathing as that. But honestly it's up for you to decide if she's actually a sucky friend or you were just hurt by that one action.

Horrible critique

Donna Brown

Donna Brown

Nissie

not a beer

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

Killgore

CrastersBabies

Burninator!

suki

Opinionated

Donna Brown

Donna Brown

Donna Brown

suki

Opinionated

BenPanced

THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES (he/him)

Donna Brown

Donna Brown

suki

Opinionated

Donna Brown

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

Donna Brown

Jessianodel

Blessed by the AW Gods

mccardey

Donna Brown

suki

Opinionated

LindaJeanne

On a small world west of wonder

backslashbaby

*

Donna Brown

Horrible critique

not a beer

Rewriting My Destiny

Burninator!

Opinionated

Opinionated

THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES (he/him)

Opinionated

Rewriting My Destiny

Blessed by the AW Gods

Opinionated

On a small world west of wonder

~~~~*~~~~

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