American English and British English

mirandashell said:

A post on another thread has raised a question for me...

I know the correct American term is People of Colour but due to us Brits having a different history and experience of race relations, I think 'PoC' is a difficult term for us. 'Coloured' has a completely different meaning here. Which is different to other places who have their own history.

So.... as a favour, if I or any of the other non-Americans say black or Asian or any other race, please don't jump on our heads. We're not being un-PC or racist, it's just our terms for these concepts.

I hope I'm not coming across as bossy but I think it's important to lay down ground rules at the start with this kind of thing. Just so we all know where we are.

Is that ok?

And I'd just like to say thank you cos this is the only forum I've been on where any discussion of race has not ended in a flame war.

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I don't know of anyone who considers "black" or "Asian" to be offensive.

"Oriental" is right out, though.

I really think racial slurs are the only thing that offend everyone. Black and Asian are standard. Even Negro and coloured are fine, if not a tad dated. I don't think you need to worry.

I was actually thinking about this earlier. Like you, as a Brit, I wouldn't normally use the term "people of colour" - our equivalent (as far as I've been taught) is "ethnic minorities". But I don't think there's a world of difference, and I'm learning to use the American term.

We say "minorities" as well.

But really, if someone says something out of line, I'm sure another person will point it out. You definitely can't preempt every moment where you accidentally say something offensive. But you can be open to apologizing and correcting the problematic behavior.

I don't think anyone here is going to flip out over a misunderstanding.

Another thing to consider is when I say Asian for example, I am talking about people from teh Indian sub-continent - India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc.

Am I right in thinking that wouldn't be the case for an American using the term Asian?

ETA: I don't think oriental has the same connotations over here either. It's more a distinction between South Asians and East Asians, if anything.

Not a great source I know, but this from Urban Dictionary shows the difference....

UK Person: Look at those Oriental people over there.
US Person: You shouldn't call them Oriental. You should call them Asian.
UK Person: But they're Japanese. They aren't Indian. They're Oriental.
US Person: Rugs are Oriental. People are not.
UK Person: YOU are a rug.

Yeah oriental is thought of as offensive here because it basically labels them in relationship to ourselves. It means "east." Canadians and Australians say Asian too. We call Indians and the like "south Asian"

Yeah, terms like blacks and Asians are generally fine. That said, we do further split the "Asian" umbrella term to specify which region of Asia we're referring to -- South Asian vs. East Asian vs. Southeast Asian.

Yeah, Oriental is out. It's kind of akin to calling someone exotic. Asian and South Asian are typically the best, though here in NM we call Indians from India east Indians. The Native Americans here are American Indians. And people from around Haiti/Barbados/etc... are West Indians.

Black is fine for me. Colored doesn't really bother me except in a historical context. I've never heard Negro outside of history class. African-American is really, really proper and doesn't really apply to anyone who's black but not American.

missesdash said:

I really think racial slurs are the only thing that offend everyone. Black and Asian are standard. Even Negro and coloured are fine, if not a tad dated. I don't think you need to worry.

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This is interesting. I find that IRL I have few problems talking about race, but online, I lose so much context that I don't know how to take things.

I feel like asking if Paris in your location means that you are French. I wonder what your ethnic background is. I do this to put things into context, but I always hear it's rude to ask if someone is Black, etc. It's an interesting dilemma! You sound so straightforward, I'm just going to ask

I'd say Negro and Coloured are completely out down here in NC, and in America in general, I believe. 70-year-old folks get a pass a lot for that in the South, but otherwise it's usually a flag for a truly racist person.

My friend at school (in England) from South Africa was explaining the difference between how Black, Coloured and White are used there, though. Apparently, Coloured is a 'real' term there. She is Black and speaks one of those gorgeous native languages by birth (as well as several Western ones by school), for context about her.

Goodness, there is so much to talk about. I'll stop there, but I do have views and things I've been told about Native American, Asian, etc, etc. They are all important.

Wait. My dad is 70, and there's no way he'd say Coloured or Negro. Let me make that clear. Maybe I should say 90 year olds? It's weird, but every so often you run across 'old folk' in the South who really mean nothing by those terms, and who are just utterly out of touch. Context is crucial.

I'd love to hear Kitty's views on that situation.

I'd definitely say that 'Oriental' can be like that in a mainstream way in the US. I know many kind people who have simply never heard that the term is offensive. That probably says they don't study race relations any, but it does not mean they are racist imho.

backslashbaby said:

This is interesting. I find that IRL I have few problems talking about race, but online, I lose so much context that I don't know how to take things.

I feel like asking if Paris in your location means that you are French. I wonder what your ethnic background is. I do this to put things into context, but I always hear it's rude to ask if someone is Black, etc. It's an interesting dilemma! You sound so straightforward, I'm just going to ask

I'd say Negro and Coloured are completely out down here in NC, and in America in general, I believe. 70-year-old folks get a pass a lot for that in the South, but otherwise it's usually a flag for a truly racist person.

My friend at school (in England) from South Africa was explaining the difference between how Black, Coloured and White are used there, though. Apparently, Coloured is a 'real' term there. She is Black and speaks one of those gorgeous native languages by birth (as well as several Western ones by school), for context about her.

Goodness, there is so much to talk about. I'll stop there, but I do have views and things I've been told about Native American, Asian, etc, etc. They are all important.

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I'm actually American. I've only lived in Paris for two and a half years. I mentioned that "coloured" and "negro" aren't so bad because to my generation and younger, it doesn't sting as much. None of us have seen it posted on a sign above a water fountain. We really only know them both as terms that were one time acceptable (even within the black community) and are now outdated.

But I don't think many people under 25 will assume someone is a racist if they say "colored" or "negro". The latter, though, is used to be very tongue in cheek. I say it when I'm joking with other people. Now you could be right and it's true that only racists use the term, I don't know because I don't ask.

But no flags go up for me when I hear either term. I also don't know any people my age who say "oriental."

Oh and I'm mixed race, but I identify as black

Oh, yeah, tongue-in-cheek between young, non-racist friends seems common enough.

I'm just in my 40's, btw. That probably matters!

Let's see. I think it's fair to say that I'd avoid using those terms in general, non-fiction work meant to appeal to all audiences. So, like a newspaper article. No 'Coloured' or 'Negro' there, you know?

If that's changed with the younger crowd, I'm all ears. I'm very glad to see views on race changing with the generations

backslashbaby said:

This is interesting. I find that IRL I have few problems talking about race, but online, I lose so much context that I don't know how to take things.

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As with all things, it can be very hard to pin down the tone of a post (mine or someone else's) which isn't so hard in a face to face

Which makes you feel like you have to dance a bit more, to get it right, sometimes?

As well as how well you know the other poster etc...

I mean if I make a clumsy comment (or someone else does about something say to do with women/sexism) face to face, it's easy to figure out if it's a comment that just didn;t come out right, someone who means no offence but just is a bit outdated or someone wanting to (or at least not realising they are) out right offending*.

Online, it's a LOT harder to tell, and I feel I must be that just little bit more careful. Which may not be good for frank dicussion perhaps.



*I think IRL, a lot of people (I include myself in this when thinking of sexism etc) people take into account intent. Someone who says something a bit clumsy is very different to someone who goes all out to offend. Online (and in books too) it's more of a fine line, because it's harder to tell intent. However, sometimes you can tell intent....


(And I'm sorry this is about sexism, but that's my relevance if you get me)

It's the difference between a book that has lots of lovely female characters, but they are all passive, 'care for your man types' and a book where all women are shrieking harpies/ballbreakers and must stay at home because that's all they are good for.

One is a rather outdated but at least affectionate take (which I can live with mostly unless it gets really in my face), the other is outright offensive.

Does that make sense?

Does that carry over in any way - ie the offence level? Obviously, that'll depend in large parts on teh person reading. In the same way I know women who get all het up about a casual 'Thanks, love' whereas I get that all the time, and I sue a 'cheers, mate' back (or, thanks to a certain south Londoner, have got into the habit of calling people Babe, which is most embarrassing. I must try to stop)

IMHO, "colored" isn't bad, but that and "negro" is very dated and still rubs black people, particularly, the wrong way here in the South because of the connotations. I just say black. Yeah African-American is the common ground, but I don't really use it myself, unless on a form or standardized test 'cuz it's usually the only option.

I say Asian, and get specific when needed. I've rarely heard "oriental" used here, like at all.

Hm. Generations and ages do factor, don't they?

As far as my understanding goes, in addition to the offensive nature of the word, "colored" makes one think only of blacks due to its historical connotations, whereas "people of color" would include me.

^ True.

Jehhillenberg said:

IMHO, "colored" isn't bad, but that and "negro" is very dated and still rubs black people, particularly, the wrong way here in the South because of the connotations. I just say black. Yeah African-American is the common ground, but I don't really use it myself, unless on a form or standardized test 'cuz it's usually the only option.

I say Asian, and get specific when needed. I've rarely heard "oriental" used here, like at all.

Hm. Generations and ages do factor, don't they?

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Hm, you know. I should probably point out that it depends on who is saying it. To me, it's not okay for any of my non-black friends to say "nigger." I mean I don't like the term at all, but I won't get too pissed if it's another black person.

Negro and coloured on the other hand, I'd be okay with a non-black person using it if I knew them or if I could tell they were foreign. But yeah, a strange white person calling me a "negro" probably wouldn't end well for either of us haha

I agree with kuwisdelu on the difference between "colored" and "person of color."

missesdash said:

But yeah, a strange white person calling me a "negro" probably wouldn't end well for either of us haha

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Yeah, I was thinking about this and I have to say that I don't give it a second thought if a black person says "negro" but if a white person says it, I definitely draw back a little.

And I definitely do not think it's okay for a non-black person to use the n-word. If a black person wants to use it, to reclaim it, that's their choice to do so. But anyone else, no.

missesdash said:

Hm, you know. I should probably point out that it depends on who is saying it. To me, it's not okay for any of my non-black friends to say "nigger." I mean I don't like the term at all, but I won't get too pissed if it's another black person.

Negro and coloured on the other hand, I'd be okay with a non-black person using it if I knew them or if I could tell they were foreign. But yeah, a strange white person calling me a "negro" probably wouldn't end well for either of us haha

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Haha, I would think so. I'm a little more sensitive and understanding to someone foreign who doesn't know the background and all that, but I'll educate them if around me. I don't care for the big N-word either, to the point I refrain from using it. When I think about it, it's just a word and any word could grow into a racial slur if fed power. But it does bother me when it's used at all, even by other blacks. That's just how I was raised.

alessahinlo said:

I agree with kuwisdelu on the difference between "colored" and "person of color."



Yeah, I was thinking about this and I have to say that I don't give it a second thought if a black person says "negro" but if a white person says it, I definitely draw back a little.

And I definitely do not think it's okay for a non-black person to use the n-word. If a black person wants to use it, to reclaim it, that's their choice to do so. But anyone else, no.

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Yeah, I understand the reasoning behind why black people use it, to reclaim it, but like I said. I find it offensive when I hear it period, I don't care who says it. I won't lose sleep over it though, I obviously just don't like it. You're right, it's their choice. Negro has less impact to me, than the big N. But it's also Spanish for "black" as in the color.

When the talk regarding the formation of this forum began, some were offended by the term people of color. If I recall correctly, a member or two requested the forum have a different name. In the end, it is difficult to please everyone.

I think people of color is pretty good, honestly. "minority" doesn't quite fit because we aren't all from the same countries. A Japanese person living in Japan certainly isn't a minority, but they are still a person of color.

Minorities, as in of America

But that's so true.

P-O-C!