Etiquette?

D.M.Drake · Nov 19, 2011

So I browse through friends and friends of friends writing on Amazon. I like to help support fellow writers by buying their work. (If it is something I tend to enjoy reading)

I found a book which is full of error after error. Everything from grammar issues to incorrect word choice and spelling.

Now I sent them a kind message warning them, since if I were to put out a book full of errors I'd prefer someone tell me. Then I became worried that I am being 'myself.'

Nosy. Rude. Intrusive. I honestly only wanted to help, I had no malicious intent, but did I go too far? Should I have left it alone? They had eight reviews, seven were 5 star, one 4 star.

So now I am feeling self doubt and am thinking I am a troll. Or I am being over critical. What would YOU have done?

Deleted member 42 · Nov 19, 2011

Don't Do This.

If you really must, send a note saying I liked X and Y and thought R was funny. And then, casually say, if you reissue/do a hardcover, let me know and I'll proof it for you.

But even that is fraught with danger.

Libbie · Nov 19, 2011

Unfortunately, you shouldn't be surprised that there are a lot of four and five-star reviews of that book on Amazon. Inflated reviews are, sadly, rather common.

I like Medievalist's approach to the situation. Or, just offer your honest review on Amazon to counter the inflated reviews. One- or two-star, and say specifically why: lack of editing that kept you from enjoying the book. That will be a useful guide to future readers who might consider this book. And if a person puts her book out there for people to read, she should be prepared for honest reviews. If she hasn't done her work with editing, she needs to expect that eventually the honest reviews will come along, sooner or later.

D.M.Drake · Nov 19, 2011

Libbie said:
Unfortunately, you shouldn't be surprised that there are a lot of four and five-star reviews of that book on Amazon. Inflated reviews are, sadly, rather common.

I like Medievalist's approach to the situation. Or, just offer your honest review on Amazon to counter the inflated reviews. One- or two-star, and say specifically why: lack of editing that kept you from enjoying the book. That will be a useful guide to future readers who might consider this book. And if a person puts her book out there for people to read, she should be prepared for honest reviews. If she hasn't done her work with editing, she needs to expect that eventually the honest reviews will come along, sooner or later.

I just worried that it is none of my business, but I would want someone to tell me quietly. You bring up the point that the reader may download it based on the great reviews and be upset. I didn't even consider that.

Urg, I hate being the bad guy, but I don't know which action makes me the bad guy. Walk away and let them make a fool of themselves? Post a negative review for the world to see? Or warn them quietly (which I did) and expect a fury filled backlash? (which I do expect)

I guess it isn't my responsibility to 'save them from themselves' (wise words of a friend.)

Deleted member 42 · Nov 19, 2011

D.M.Drake said:
I just worried that it is none of my business, but I would want someone to tell me quietly. You bring up the point that the reader may download it based on the great reviews and be upset.

I'd be really happy--but I'm incapable with respect to spelling, and always ask Someone Else to proof my writing for me.

I am, frankly, an odd outlier. Most people seem to think pointing out the odd speelinggggg or typo issue as an assault on human dignity.

Newbie authors are especially sensitive.

And I should note that it is not even a little rare for typos to creep in post galleys/eArcs.

Fruitbat · Nov 19, 2011

I didn't really understand the deal here- is this a self-published book that this person has the option of taking down and fixing?

If it was me, yes I would like to be told, and privately, if it was something I could do something about. Otherwise, it would probably just make me feel bad.

Since it's done, and your intentions were good, I wouldn't worry about it too much. But especially since you seem to be having self doubt over it, maybe think about it more beforehand next time. Keep us posted and good luck with it.

Polenth · Nov 19, 2011

I'd have walked away, because there are more terrible books out there than I have the energy to review. It's not the initial review writing, but the ragedrama it causes. It's draining and I'd rather read another book. However, if you feel you can handle all that, a public review is the most productive thing, as it warns other readers that the book wasn't pooped out by a unicorn.

A private message to the author will get the negative reaction without any positives. I don't think it's trollish or wrong to send such a message, so don't beat yourself up over it, but I don't think it'll do any good either.

Becky Black · Nov 19, 2011

It's a tough one. Nobody likes getting criticism, whether privately or in a public review. If the writer has a grown-up, professional attitude, they won't come back at you with teeth and claws at the ready, but who knows if they do have that attitude? Fingers crossed!

As for which form is better, private, or public, well both have their advantages and disadvantages for you and for the writer. A public review means everyone is seeing it, but it also means the writer's under no obligation to reply to it - and in fact really shouldn't! That just leads to disaster in the end, usually. But with a private note they (well I would) feel obliged to reply. Even if they are a thick-skinned person who'd never rant at you for you criticism they'll find it hard not to get at least a bit defensive.

I think for me, it might depend on the story itself. If it was awful in every way, terrible story, awful writing, ridiculous characters etc, I probably wouldn't bother with a review or feedback. If it's on a site that has samples/excerpts available I'd trust the potential readers out there to check those and judge for themselves.

On the other hand, if the story had some positives as well as negatives, I'd feel more inclined to say something. And I'd point out the positives too, like say the story was pretty good, but let down by the grammatical and other technical issues. To me, that's more helpful to someone who's got potential, but still has some issues to work on.

FrederickCross · Nov 20, 2011

While I can't comment on the etiquette part of the dilemma, I can say that I would certainly like to know about it myself. Of course, I would probably like to get an email or something and not a comment on, say, Amazon itself.

D.M.Drake · Nov 20, 2011

Thanks guys, there are a lot of good points here. I have heard nothing back from my e-mail yet. As soon as I do I will post here and keep everyone updated.

Some notes, Yes it is e-published, they could fix it.
Yes, there is a sample, but I personally don't always read them if A) a friend recommends it, B) It has stellar reviews, C) I know/have been the authors beta reader. This one was A and B, the only reason I read the sample is because it is a genre I don't typically read, so I wanted to see if I could get into it.
If I missed anything please forgive me, I am sick. lol

Christyp · Nov 20, 2011

Yeah, I think I'd like someone to tell me. I had a crit group who told me how much they loved my book, but didn't bother mentioning any errors that I obviously missed. When anyone I know reads my work the first thing I say is "honestly, tell me if you see anything that sucks, is misspelled, or looks weird."

quicklime · Nov 20, 2011

i guess for me, it would be a sort of "the horses are already out of the gate" thing....

you can't help folks who don't want help, and being the gift of hindsight often leads to bad things...

Susan Coffin · Nov 20, 2011

A write pal of mine self-published a book that was edited but still full of horrible errors. I told my pal what I liked about the book, but I did not say what I did not like.

D.M.Drake · Nov 20, 2011

Still no response, but I am still nervous. The waiting is the worst part I think. Am I going to open my mail to hatred? Or are they going to be okay with me nicely telling them there were errors? I am tearing out my hair. I should have left well enough alone.

backslashbaby · Nov 21, 2011

I'd appreciate it, if that helps any

If they can fix it, I think it's an important thing to tell them. If not, like with a print book, that's a bit different, imho.

D.M.Drake · Nov 21, 2011

UPDATE. I got a letter back. It was wonderful!

no problem...thanks.
Actually sent it in for another edit. The first edit wasnt as tight as i had hoped for. So i really do appreciate that you provided feedback. Dont be a stranger. -Name withheld.

That went really well in my opinion. He saw the errors, pulled it to fix them and thanked me.

Alessandra Kelley · Nov 21, 2011

D.M.Drake said:
UPDATE. I got a letter back. It was wonderful!

no problem...thanks.
Actually sent it in for another edit. The first edit wasnt as tight as i had hoped for. So i really do appreciate that you provided feedback. Dont be a stranger. -Name withheld.

That went really well in my opinion. He saw the errors, pulled it to fix them and thanked me.

Wow, that was about as good as could be expected!

But ... I think you were probably lucky not to get an overly sensitive person. Not sure I would recommend doing that again.

D.M.Drake · Nov 21, 2011

Alessandra Kelley said:
Wow, that was about as good as could be expected!

But ... I think you were probably lucky not to get an overly sensitive person. Not sure I would recommend doing that again.

I don't plan to. I am often a leap before thinking person. I saw something I personally would not want my name on and felt bad they didn't see the errors. I wanted to help. Of course there is one person I wouldnt want to anger.
http://wiki.fandomwank.com/index.php/Nicky_the_Goth

lol

notyourchambermaid · Nov 21, 2011

D.M.Drake said:
UPDATE. I got a letter back. It was wonderful!

no problem...thanks.
Actually sent it in for another edit. The first edit wasnt as tight as i had hoped for. So i really do appreciate that you provided feedback. Dont be a stranger. -Name withheld.

That went really well in my opinion. He saw the errors, pulled it to fix them and thanked me.

Yay! I think it makes a big difference if they have control over it and can make changes.

D.M.Drake · Nov 21, 2011

Now we are chatting, he asked if I'd like to proof after his editor finishes. I just made an honest Beta friend out of it. He says everyone tells him it is good, no constructive criticism. Nice, he is a sweet guy!

MDSchafer · Nov 21, 2011

If you don't mind a shameless plug for my blog I actually went on a tear about this last month. A fantasy writer in my home town was arrested for allegedly running a $3 million scam. It caught my attention and so I looked up his book on Amazon and started going through his reviews and found out a number of them repeated the same language and most of the 4 and 5 start reviewers seemed to have created accounts just to review his book, and apparently his other books.

I went searching through other fantasy e-books and every self-published book I found had sketchy reviews. Honestly, I think 80 to 90 percent of the book reviews on Amazon aren't "honest."

If you want to read the blog...
http://www.mattunedited.com/2011/10/so-when-i-saw-headline-marietta-science.html

I have a number of friends who have published books and I don't review their books and wouldn't expect them to review mine.

D.M.Drake · Nov 21, 2011

MDSchafer said:
If you don't mind a shameless plug for my blog I actually went on a tear about this last month. A fantasy writer in my home town was arrested for allegedly running a $3 million scam. It caught my attention and so I looked up his book on Amazon and started going through his reviews and found out a number of them repeated the same language and most of the 4 and 5 start reviewers seemed to have created accounts just to review his book, and apparently his other books.

I went searching through other fantasy e-books and every self-published book I found had sketchy reviews. Honestly, I think 80 to 90 percent of the book reviews on Amazon aren't "honest."

If you want to read the blog...
http://www.mattunedited.com/2011/10/so-when-i-saw-headline-marietta-science.html

I have a number of friends who have published books and I don't review their books and wouldn't expect them to review mine.

Good point! And it's not shameless if you blogged about this instance. I'd love to read it! Thank you

Promethean Dreams · Nov 21, 2011

I think you did the right thing. I am getting so frustrated with people telling me my writing is wonderful. I have poor grammar and I know this. If I put something on Amazon and it had a lot of errors I would want someone to tell me. I had a friends wife edit one of my stories for me. She has a masters in English. I found so many small errors in my story after she edited it. What if this person paid someone to edit their book and didn't realize the person did a poor job. When you have bad grammar its hard to know if the editor knows what they are doing. I think you did the right thing.

D.M.Drake · Nov 21, 2011

Promethean Dreams said:
I think you did the right thing. I am getting so frustrated with people telling me my writing is wonderful. I have poor grammar and I know this. If I put something on Amazon and it had a lot of errors I would want someone to tell me. I had a friends wife edit one of my stories for me. She has a masters in English. I found so many small errors in my story after she edited it. What if this person paid someone to edit their book and didn't realize the person did a poor job. When you have bad grammar its hard to know if the editor knows what they are doing. I think you did the right thing.

Thank you

I just know a lot of people are very touchy about their work. Criticism hurts.

Wordwrestler · Nov 21, 2011

Okay, maybe I'm a big meanie, but . . . if you paid money for the book, you have the right to leave an honest review. I don't know why you felt bad.

I did my best with my books, but errors still slip through. I've asked all my friends to please let me know of any they find so that I can correct them.

But anyone who pays for my work has the right to complain about anything that bothers them, publicly, whether it's errors or matters of taste. No one should feel guilty about leaving an honest review.

In my opinion, only reviews that make assumptions about and attacks on the author personally, or reviews that are dishonest (didn't read the book, etc.) cross the line.

Good for your acquaintance for realizing he or she needed some professional editing. But you should not have felt bad, even if it hadn't turned out well. Fair and accurate criticism of a product you purchased is not inappropriate.

Etiquette?

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