Do we take our writing gifts for granted?

I definitely used to take it for granted. It weas my mom who first pointed out that not everyone has even a basic grasp of how to string words together into coherent sentences, at least on paper. I used to be real haughty about it too--I assumed not that I was especially talented, but that everyone else was stupid. I've learned better diplomacy since then.

I think it depends on where you come from. Most westernized nations have decent education for all, regardless of income. There are other income-related factors that can hurt those with lower economic status, but the opportunity is there.

Also, sorry to point this out, I don't normally do this, but since you were talking about cringe-worthy mistakes, you totally blew it on "whom's".

It's rampant at the college level as well, at least in classes other than those English majors take. Even then.

I don't know how professors make it through the day.

Drachen Jager said:

Also, sorry to point this out, I don't normally do this, but since you were talking about cringe-worthy mistakes, you totally blew it on "whom's".

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Aww, man, that's cold. Just cold. Mel, you did a nice thing (and not for the first time, if I remember rightly. Wasn't that post office incident you?)

When I saw the title thread I thought you were referring to our story-telling ability as opposed to the more functional, nuts and bolts of grammar, etc. And I was going to say, "Dude, no way. Most writers are terrified they are frauds and have no ability."

But the question being what it is, then yes. For sure. I have helped a lot of people with minor tasks, and cringed at many more. I have few talents, so I try not to take this one for granted.

I find that i sometimes take my writing ability for granted. This came to me only a few weeks ago when i was talking to a good friend of mine. We are both classmates in the same major and were discussing our 10 page research paper our teacher handed back to us. I finished mine on antimatter (Chemistry major) in little to no time and ended up with the teacher giving me little to no comments.

My friend on the other hand who was having a lot of trouble with her paper got alot of comments. She is one of the only people in my life who know i write books. So she thought nothing of it. On the other hand a jerk in my class noticed my paper was void of the dreaded red marks and came over to me asking "how i cheated"

(taken for granted i'm not the smartest in our class, in fact i'm at the bottom of the smart pool in my chem class because i suck at math. I could kind of see why he thought it was impossible for me to do soooo well.)

Anyway he began laughing at me and telling others i must have cheated or plagorized or something to get that kind of great grade. I didnt understand why he then had such an aggenda to find out how i cheated till a few days later my friend who had talk to him about the papers, found out he is HORRIBLE at writing papers, even had to go to the teacher and explain that to her and it turns out I did the best in the class...

So the other day i asked him if he needed any help as he started badgering me with ridicule and he seemed stunned for a second then stopped all his comments and just nodded.

After looking over his paper and helping him format it better i realized just what i gift i had at writing and it really made me feel better about myself. I might be horrible at math and seen as a less intelligent to my chem peers but i could write a paper better then any of them and Senior year that is all that counts!

It's always when we're discussing grammer and speling that Nemesis strikes.

Writing isn't my gift. I don't find it easy or natural. So no, I don't take it for granted. It took a lot of work to get here, and I'm very aware that I'm lucky to be in a country with free early education.

My self-esteem is so low I figure if I can do something, anyone can and probably better. So no, I don't take my writing gifts fir granted because I don't think they're all the special.

And poor people have the same access to public education as rich people. If you attend, and pay attention, public schools will give you the basic foundations to be a competent writer.

At least that's what I've heard. I had a tendancy to skip classes and missed most of the groundwork.

I don't assume that I have a gift for writing - I just know I like to do it. I like to ride a bike too. I can go real fast and not fall off, but I don't take my ability to stay on for granted.

"And then it hit me how I take my writing for granted. What seems easy and natural to me is what the vast majority of people find difficult if not impossible.
Especially those of lower income."

Hm. I think because you discovered that you took your writing for granted you went ahead and made an assumption and a blanket conclusion about other people and their writing. And then you tossed in 'those of lower income'.

Do you have anything to back that up besides your own ideas about the subject because that looks very biased to me.

I often doubt I have any writing gifts. So, yes, I take them for granted. Occasionally I have encounters like the OP that make it clear I do have gifts. I've even had similar experiences in senior undergrad classes. Some intelligent, educated people can't write.

Writing also is a gift our society tends to undervalue. Everyone thinks they can do it. People tend to think being able to write is the same as being able to write. Not the same thing. One is the ability to make marks on paper. The other is the ability to present a persuasive or evocative coherent thought. How many people do we know who want to write a book someday (fiction or non-fiction) who have no concept of how inadequate their current skills are or how hard they will have to work? We could probably all name a couple of dozen.

I am aware I am contrasting "able to write" with "able to write". That very lack of distinction underlies my frequent doubts of my own gifts and our society's undervaluation of the gift of writing.

Pistol Whipped Bee said:

"And then it hit me how I take my writing for granted. What seems easy and natural to me is what the vast majority of people find difficult if not impossible.
Especially those of lower income."

Hm. I think because you discovered that you took your writing for granted you went ahead and made an assumption and a blanket conclusion about other people and their writing. And then you tossed in 'those of lower income'.

Do you have anything to back that up besides your own ideas about the subject because that looks very biased to me.

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It's not an assumption. Literacy, education level, etc. correlate to income levels. There are tons and tons of studies that prove this.

dgiharris isn't saying that the poor are stupid; dgi's just realizing their own relative privilege when it comes to literacy, in comparison to someone who wasn't lucky enough to be as well educated.

The Lonely One said:

It's rampant at the college level as well, at least in classes other than those English majors take. Even then.

I don't know how professors make it through the day.

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When I first signed onto this site, I remember a post by a woman who worked in a university saying how many of the re-law students didn't understand why they couldn't use UR (for your and you are) in LEGAL BRIEFS.

Grasp of grammar isn't confined to economic levels (nor is it necessarily hindered by them).

I will agree to wear a super hero suit. But NO CAPES!!

I used to take it for granted. I went into a writing field because it was easy. I couldn't understand why people were paying me to do this. Then I hired someone who wasn't a natural writer. She wasn't a bad writer -- and her education was better than mine --but she wasn't a natural writer. That was when I realized that everyone doesn't have this skill. I began to take more pride in it after that.

leahzero said:

It's not an assumption. Literacy, education level, etc. correlate to income levels. There are tons and tons of studies that prove this.

dgiharris isn't saying that the poor are stupid; dgi's just realizing their own relative privilege when it comes to literacy, in comparison to someone who wasn't lucky enough to be as well educated.

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Income has nothing to do with it. Education in America is FREE TO ALL up through high school.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Income has nothing to do with it. Education in America is FREE TO ALL up through high school.

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+1

Neither does "luck". It's my personal opinion that study results and statistics can be bent to support either side of an argument.

I'm also of the belief that focus and desire have more to do with obtaining a quality education than income level. If it means "living" at the library, so be it.

I grew up smack on the poverty line; my father had a third-grade education, my mother completed eighth grade. Education for us kids was a priority and my parents held us to a strict level of accomplishment--I, in particular, had to have a damned good answer for receiving a "B-" on a report card, as well as an executable plan in hand for bringing the grade up.

If we hadn't already had the desire, it would have been pounded into us.

I really do mainly do what I was taught and what I heard all around me. I mean, I didn't pick up grammar books on my own time or anything. If those folks had been wrong, I would be wrong very often. I have no doubt at all.

Even reading books was something that my family and school encouraged. I didn't see Saturday morning commercials for them and beg to get them or anything

Language skills have a critical period. What happens as a kid matters tremendously.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Income has nothing to do with it. Education in America is FREE TO ALL up through high school.

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Ari Meermans said:

+1

Neither does "luck". It's my personal opinion that study results and statistics can be bent to support either side of an argument.

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Ditto these guys. Education is free in this country too. So are libraries.

Education may correlate to income -- university and such -- but literacy is possible, and available, to all.

Sob story: when I was a kid we were dirt poor, and no, I don't mean we had a very small flatscreen. I mean, I know what hunger feels like. And yet I still grew up knowing how to read and write well. Hell, I sure wasn't spending my time eating, was I?

Speaking as someone 'on the frontline' I'm afraid expectations have a lot to do with the stats on achievement. Intelligence and ability, as largely genetic traits cross boundaries of race, social class, income and other social barriers. However, what students expect to be able to achieve is largely driven by social mores.

One school I worked in was in a relatively poor area. There were some very bright girls there, some of them could have made it to Oxbridge, chosen to do medicine or law or even (if they were really bright) become teachers (apologies for the sarcasm...). However, a common complaint in the staffroom was 'I talked to so and so about careers today. She says she is going to be a hairdresser.' It was almost as if they were not aware of any other option being possible and given that the area seemed to be full of hairdresser salons, I can see why they may have thought that it was the only possible career for a woman from that area... really makes me sad.

I only really appreciated my writing when I did the PGCE and realised that a) I found the standard literacy test really easy (there were people who found it so hard that they were in tears and these are people who were post graduate trainee teachers) and b) I considered 1000 words to be a 'short essay' when others seemed to think it was 'a lot of words to write'.

Never.

Part of my ability with words comes from reading from a very early age -- and basically much of my reading skills came from listening to my father read out of books and following along on the page.

So step one, I had a parent who read, explained, and who encouraged me to do the same.

Step two, I grew up before the age of computers and cable tv and video games. Books were the only game in town, and I couldn't have survived without them.

Step three, I was fortunate enough to go to good schools, where everyone learned punctuation, grammar, and English usage, from seventh grade onward.

The result? I have the tools necessary to be a writer -- tools that make writing easy and natural, and allow me to concentrate on the creative aspects, because the mechanical stuff is so ingrained that I don't have to even think about it.

That's a tremendous advantage. Maybe I would have got there anyway, but I was lucky, lucky, and don't think I don't know it.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Income has nothing to do with it. Education in America is FREE TO ALL up through high school.

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And college is, too, if you do well in high school and get a bright futures or other scholarship.

Although public secondary education in the U.S. is a bit of a joke, there are plenty of great public/state colleges that produce brilliant leaders of industry in a wide plethora of fields.

Basically higher education is free if you try for it and find the right avenues. And even if not you can get subsidized loans.

We should rate individuals not income brackets. Just my thinking.

Ari Meermans said:

+1

Neither does "luck". It's my personal opinion that study results and statistics can be bent to support either side of an argument.

I'm also of the belief that focus and desire have more to do with obtaining a quality education than income level. If it means "living" at the library, so be it.

I grew up smack on the poverty line; my father had a third-grade education, my mother completed eighth grade. Education for us kids was a priority and my parents held us to a strict level of accomplishment--I, in particular, had to have a damned good answer for receiving a "B-" on a report card, as well as an executable plan in hand for bringing the grade up.

If we hadn't already had the desire, it would have been pounded into us.

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I'm currently below the poverty line by quite a bit and in college. Without foodstamps neither me, my wife nor my dog or cat would eat regularly. I'm taking advantage of the system that's set up to help folks like me who don't have an education, nice apartment and M3 Beamer at the expense of my parents' checkbook (do people have checkbooks anymore?).

Wondering how I'm going to pay next month's rent and loving my life.

scarletpeaches said:

Sob story: when I was a kid we were dirt poor, and no, I don't mean we had a very small flatscreen. I mean, I know what hunger feels like. And yet I still grew up knowing how to read and write well. Hell, I sure wasn't spending my time eating, was I?

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You'll find that many of the most voracious readers are those in the lowest of income brackets. Reading is cheap (free at libraries and certain after school programs). It's a means of exploration and escape. It also gives you one of the means to not be in that same income bracket when you get older.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Income has nothing to do with it. Education in America is FREE TO ALL up through high school.

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School in America is free to all. Education received depends largely on the economic status of the neighbourhood.