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Gillhoughly
11-17-2011, 03:36 AM
From their website: http://paradonbooks.com/index.html

They're spamming the Net like a case of hives.


ParaDon Books Publishing is a privately-owned establishment, with distribution deals that reach all over the globe.
Examples, please. What books have you got, where, who's selling them?


Other companies may offer similar services, but our services are the best, and come with a personal touch. Examples, please. What books have you got? We'd like to see inside one for check on this personal touch stuff.


We have a fine team of qualified editors,
Their names, please. Where did they work previously in the publishing industry and for how long?


the best book cover graphic artists in the industry,Their names, please, and show examples of their work.


We publish both fictions and non-fictions.
"Once a manuscript pass the reading test and is accepted,"
Apparently grammar and proofing are of little concern here.


All proposal package should include a query letter, synopsis, bio, the first 50 pages, SASE (self address stamped envelope), and a $25 reading fee, mail to
ParaDon Books Publishing
P.O.Box 6347
Great Falls, MT 59406
Yog's Law violation alert. Danger, Will Robinson, Danger-danger!


Agent-submitted manuscript are excluded from the reading fee. Not surprising, since no reputable agent would bother with this place.


This company is brand new, and looking for a lot of quality stories to catalog. Not to sell? Shame-shame.

Is English just not your first language?

Please explain why there's a picture of a car dealership's showroom on your "Jobs" page.

Please explain why the heck you opened for business when you've no books to sell.

.

Creative_Solitude
11-17-2011, 04:27 AM
Did you read the message at the bottom from the Aquisitions Editor? It reads:

Here's a quick tip for all you writers out there; make sure your story have a good structure

Um...ok...lol.

Wow...

Gravity
11-17-2011, 04:53 AM
So THAT'S where the "all your base are belong to us" space aliens ended up. Huh. Montana. Who would have thought they'd end up in Montana ...

LaneHeymont
11-17-2011, 05:23 AM
Did you read the message at the bottom from the Aquisitions Editor? It reads:

Here's a quick tip for all you writers out there; make sure your story have a good structure

Um...ok...lol.

Wow...


What? Sometimes me no have good structure! Lol

Momento Mori
11-17-2011, 03:50 PM
ParaDon Books Website:
At ParaDon Books Publishing, we take care of our customers with high quality services personalized for their own unique needs. We are available to take your order online 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

This was from their submission page, which makes me think that their writers are also going to be their customers.


ParaDon Books Website:
We accept fictions and non-fictions; horror, sci-fi, adventure, mystery, suspense-thriller, hard-boiled, erotica, romance, regional, poetry-chapbook, fantasy, espionage, urban fiction, chick-lit, western, Africa, Afro-American, short-stories, experimental, young-adult, graphic novel, children-book, memoir, cook-book, how-to, travel, religion, history, and true crimes.

So they're basically taking anything, which suggests they don't have a specific strategy in place because start-ups typically find it easier to focus on a particular genre and build up their reputation in it so they can also focus their marketing and distribution activities.

The fact that they accept poetry is a big red flag. While poetry is a fine art form, there is precious little money in it.


ParaDon Books Website:
​All proposal package should include a query letter, synopsis, bio, the first 50 pages, SASE (self address stamped envelope), and a $25 reading fee, mail to

No legitimate publisher will ever charge you a reading fee. Reading submissions is part of the job and should be covered by the fact that they sell books. Even a start-up should have enough cash up front to cover its overhead in reading slush.


ParaDon Books Website:
cmarka (http://fiverr.com/cmarka): I will review your short story for a possible publication with ParaDon Books for $5
Celina Marka; Acquisition Editor


​"Here's a quick tip for all you writers out there; make sure your story have a good structure, intriguing plot, interesting dialogues, smooth pace, and one unforgettable character. I look forward to reading your submissions."




Again, no reputable publisher would be charging you a reading fee for reviewing your work.


ParaDon Books Website:
Iwill review your short-story for a possible publication with ParaDon Books if your story have the juice to pump up a lot of short story readers. ParaDon Books Publishing is unlike any other publishers in the world. Find out how; www.paradonbooks.com We are currently looking for a large volume of short-stories to publish throughout the months of 2012. If you are a serious writer, here's your chance to get publish, and earn royalties for life.

Given how badly written this is, would you really care what this alleged editor thinks about your short story? The fact that they seem to be taking rights to short stories for life also fills me with horror - it's more usual for rights to be taken for a set period and then revert to the author.


ParaDon Books Website:
​"Here's a quick tip for all you writers out there; make sure your story have a good structure, intriguing plot, interesting dialogues, smooth pace, and one unforgettable character. I look forward to reading your submissions."

Aside from the crimes against grammar in this sales pitch, I tried a Google search on Celina Marka the "Acquisition Editor" [sic] and can't find any evidence that she's worked as a professional editor for any other publisher and in spite of the details on her profile page on Fiverr: http://fiverr.com/cmarka


C Marks Profile:
I am an acquisition editor at ParaDon Books Publishing. I received my MFA from Stanford University in 2008, and worked as a freelance editor / newspaper columnist prior to my employment with ParaDon Books.

I also couldn't find any evidence on Google that she'd been to Stanford or worked in journalism/editing.

I therefore doubt that she'll be able to give an opinion any more worthwhile to feedback obtainable on the SYW forums here.


ParaDon Books Website:
ParaDon Books Publishing is seeking expert bloggers to advertise our new release books to the open general through their social media outlets; blogging, facebook, twitter, youtube, linkedin, etc. We'll pay our blogger a weekly recurring fee, and payrate will depend on how productive the blogger is, as graded by SocialMention.com


So they're going to pay people to talk about them on the web? That's not how true word of mouth develops and worse, if you've got a reputation for paying people to advertise your books, people stop believing the stuff they read about your books.

MM

aliceshortcake
11-17-2011, 04:50 PM
...if your story have the juice to pump up a lot of short story readers.

Oooh, I love it when publishers talk dirty!

aliceshortcake
11-17-2011, 07:25 PM
Oh dear...they're looking for independent sales reps:


We are a privately-owned establishment with 100s of upcoming authors whose titles will be available for sale. We offer a variety of novels from romance to mystery to urban fiction to your friends, family members and co-workers at a discounted price. Create home-based parties or simply sell out of the trunk of your car; any way you think you can generate sales in this profitable venture.

Sounds like a perfect way to lose friends and alienate people! And why would ParaDon stoop to these PA-style tactics if they already have "distribution deals that reach all over the globe"?

Creative_Solitude
11-17-2011, 07:42 PM
Oooh, I love it when publishers talk dirty!

OMG! I legitimately laughed out loud just now!

Gravity
11-17-2011, 07:58 PM
Lawzie, from the horrific grammar errors to the rights grabs to the "home-based parties or simply sell out of the trunk of your car" sales strategies, this thing has EPIC FAIL write large across it. And I thought PA was bad!

Creative_Solitude
11-17-2011, 08:08 PM
Lawzie, from the horrific grammar errors to the rights grabs to the "home-based parties or simply sell out of the trunk of your car" sales strategies, this thing has EPIC FAIL write large across it. And I thought PA was bad!

It would be a cold day in hell before I'd consider submitting my manuscript to a "publisher" who would expect me to sell my novel at home-based parties or out of the truck of my car. Geez...

Gillhoughly
11-17-2011, 10:01 PM
They've got a post on Scribd:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/72195776/ParaDon-Books-is-accepting-submissions

The poor grammar just doesn't stop.

Members of Scribd may want to leave a comment about that.

Bicyclefish
11-17-2011, 10:40 PM
Scribd: You can easily skip the postal postal process and submit with us electronically.If the first "postal" is modifying the second, you have a postal postal, i.e. a postal process that went postal.

From this site (http://londonwriterssociety.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/new-publisher/) (heavily quoted for posterity):


ParaDon Books Publishing, a new publishing industry co-founded by a newspaper mogul, Richard Egland, just announce its opening to writers [...]

Richard and his staff of professionals believes in the free market revolution of book publishing, and are willing to do whatever it takes to top over the seven major publishers of America. [...]

Richard quoted, saying, “I’m sad over what’s going on with the book industry nowadays. Book stores are closing all over the nation, and less and less people are reading fictions. Personally, I think the major book publishers are to blame for their continuing mistakes of publishing writers with mediocre talents. I know the ins and outs of running a newspaper, and believe me when I say nobody love reading stories more than me.[...]

"We will be the stepping stone that will correct the flaws of mediocre writing that’s circulating through the book market today, by only putting out writers of quality styles that will seduce and induce every readers minds. From now on, no talented writer will be rejected because there’s only enough room or budget to publish that one other writer. Every talented will have a chance to shine with us, and will. I have a fine team of qualified editors, the best cover graphic artists in the industry, a world-wide distributing channel, great promotion service, and we offer advance payment and high royalty pays to our authors. [...]

When asked, “Why the reading fee?” Richard Responded, saying, “Because I want every writer submitting their story to us to take their work very seriously and put out their best. I use to run a newspaper print so i know the burden of dealing with unsolicited submissions. I want every writer submitting to us to know that this $25 could be the best investment they’ve ever made.”

Gravity
11-17-2011, 10:59 PM
The people running that outfit plainly don't give a damn, and any writer who goes with them is a fool.


ETA: if this bunch doesn't implode within the year, we may just have a new source of cringe-worthy hilarity to mine.

Creative_Solitude
11-17-2011, 11:12 PM
"We will be the stepping stone that will correct the flaws of mediocre writing that’s circulating through the book market today, by only putting out writers of quality styles that will seduce and induce every readers minds. From now on, no talented writer will be rejected because there’s only enough room or budget to publish that one other writer. Every talented will have a chance to shine with us, and will. I have a fine team of qualified editors, the best cover graphic artists in the industry, a world-wide distributing channel, great promotion service, and we offer advance payment and high royalty pays to our authors."

Good Lord, too much telling and not enough showing. Where are these alleged books they speak of?

"Fictions and non-fictions..."

lol

aliceshortcake
11-18-2011, 02:01 AM
It would be comedy gold were it not for the fact that someone, somewhere, is probably thinking of submitting their novel (or the first draft thereof) and a cheque for $25.

Creative_Solitude
11-18-2011, 02:14 AM
It would be comedy gold were it not for the fact that someone, somewhere, is probably thinking of submitting their novel (or the first draft thereof) and a cheque for $25.

Sad indeed.

Gillhoughly
11-18-2011, 04:03 AM
From now on, no talented writer will be rejected because there’s only enough room or budget to publish that one other writer.

Uh...what??

believe me when I say nobody love reading stories more than me.
Evidently without learning a damned thing about grammar.

I use to run a newspaper print so i know the burden of dealing with unsolicited submissions.
Making up for it by ignoring the burden of proofreading.

this $25 could be the best investment they’ve ever made.”
I have bills to pay. Let ME take your cash and do squat for your career--just like ParaDon--but at least you'll have sent the money to a real editor.

Gravity
11-18-2011, 04:24 AM
The eight deadly words, "but I want to be published, damn it!" are the fuel that drives, and breeds, wallet vacuums like this one.

latourdumoine
11-18-2011, 05:15 AM
The new 401 scam? :D

Considering all the mistakes in grammar, who else thinks they were actually trying to spell pardon but either didn't notice or decided to go with the typo.

Creative_Solitude
11-18-2011, 05:46 AM
The new 401 scam? :D

Considering all the mistakes in grammar, who else thinks they were actually trying to spell pardon but either didn't notice or decided to go with the typo.

Great minds think alike. I thought the exact same thing.

Izz
11-18-2011, 05:52 AM
It seems whoever's behind comment spam has moved into publishing. Yippee.

Unimportant
11-18-2011, 06:22 AM
Once a manuscript pass the reading test and is accepted, the material will be quickly edited by one of our professionals, and then converted into eBook and audiobooks. The title will be made available through ALL of our distributing channels (Kindle, Nook, Kobo, iPad, iPhone, Podcast, etc) for a regulatory period of six months, and the rating of how well your eBook and audiobooks sell within this period will determine the Advance payment that will be offer for the Paperback and Hardcover production of your title.


Read the submission guideline to learn how to publish with us.

Are you a writer, or do you know one? Refer he/she to publish with us and we'll send you free books.


I'm guessing
1. No advances will be paid.
2. No books will go to hardback.
3. English is not their first language.

Momento Mori
11-18-2011, 03:31 PM
London Writers Society Website:
ParaDon Books Publishing, a new publishing industry co-founded by a newspaper mogul, Richard Egland,

And yet a Google search does not reveal which newspaper Mr Egland apparently moguls. In fact, the only words connecting Richard Egland with newspapers seem to come from his own press release. Truly, a legend in his own mind ...


London Writers Society Website:
Located in the Big Sky area of Montana, this company’s infrastructure is surrounded by two stretched blocks of industrial installations, and the main office edifice.

... Huh? When translated into English, I think this means that their offices are in an industrial estate in Montana.


London Writers Society Website:
Richard and his staff of professionals believes in the free market revolution of book publishing, and are willing to do whatever it takes to top over the seven major publishers of America.

Given that his acquisition editor [sic] is apparently a stranger to English grammar and there's no information on his site as to the other "professionals", I'd say that the seven major publishers of American can sleep safely in their beds for the time being.


London Writers Society Website:
In a public announcement made by the publisher yesterday, Richard quoted, saying, “I’m sad over what’s going on with the book industry nowadays. Book stores are closing all over the nation, and less and less people are reading fictions. Personally, I think the major book publishers are to blame for their continuing mistakes of publishing writers with mediocre talents. I know the ins and outs of running a newspaper, and believe me when I say nobody love reading stories more than me. That’s why I created ParaDon Books Publishing.

Personally I'm hugely reassured that this newspaper mogul seems to regard fictions [sic] and journalism as one and the same thing. It speaks so much to the quality of his work.

As regards publishers being responsible for book stores closing, has Mr Egland been living under a rock? Is he not aware of the impact of internet selling and ebooks on bricks and mortar stores?


London Writers Society Website:
“ParaDon Books is exactly what a publisher should be. We will be the stepping stone that will correct the flaws of mediocre writing that’s circulating through the book market today, by only putting out writers of quality styles that will seduce and induce every readers minds.

I'll believe this when I see a press release from Mr Egland that doesn't read as if English is his second language.


London Writers Society Website:
I have a fine team of qualified editors, the best cover graphic artists in the industry, a world-wide distributing channel, great promotion service, and we offer advance payment and high royalty pays to our authors.

Could you get one of those qualified editors to take a look-see at your press release please?


London Writers Society Website:
In the upcoming months when you buy one of our books, you’ll not only be getting a great story but you’ll also be owning a great piece of art that will look good on your furniture or digital library.

I ... what?


London Writers Society Website:
“Once a manuscript pass the reading test and is accepted by us, the material will be quickly edited by one of our professionals and then converted into eBook and audiobook. The title will be made available through ALL of our distributing channels, Kindle, Nook, Kobo, iPad, iPhone, Podcast, etc for a regulatory period of six months, and the rating of how well your eBook and audiobooks sell within this period will determine the Advance payment that will be offer for the Paperback and Hardcover production of your title,”

Here's the thing, Dick, an advance is called an advance because it's paid in advance. It is also not dependent on sales actually made but based on sales that the publisher expects to make. You seem to be confusing royalties with advances (royalties being payments made on sales). Actually, you seem to be confused about a lot of things ...


London Writers Society Website:
he is ‘preferably looking for writers of young ages that can grow with the industry and learn what the industry has to offer from within. However, age will not be the deciding factor when deciding the stories that have merit.’

I think any writer unfortunate enough to sign with your alleged publisher is going to discover all too soon what your industry has to offer.


London Writers Society Website:
When asked, “Why the reading fee?”
Richard Responded, saying, “Because I want every writer submitting their story to us to take their work very seriously and put out their best.

I do take my work seriously, that's why I wouldn't submit it to such a joke of an operation.


London Writers Society Website:
NOTE: Reading fees are normally considered a bad thing, but this one is $25.00, so it would be up to each author to decide if that’s acceptable.

So reading fees are bad, unless the writer is okay with paying it? Seriously?

MM

aliceshortcake
11-18-2011, 03:48 PM
Last night I posted on ParaDon's Guest Book, politely pointing out that no reputable publisher charges a reading fee or has a website full of grammatical errors. This morning my post had disappeared into the cornfield these jokers share with PA.

Creative_Solitude
11-18-2011, 04:37 PM
Wow....I'm not surprised aliceshortcake. Not surprised at all.

Katrina S. Forest
11-18-2011, 05:28 PM
Arg, that "paying money means you're serious" stuff drives me insane.

Hey, parents, make sure to buy your kids at least $500 worth of toys this Christmas. If you don't, that means you're not serious about loving them.

Gillhoughly
11-18-2011, 09:47 PM
Dear person in charge of all things ParaDon,

Before you start whining to us that correct grammar doesn't matter for really good stories I want you to run that opinion past your fifth grade English teacher and the local librarian.

If they stare and can't speak for a moment, take that as a big fat clue that you are wrong.

I recommend you get a copy of Elements of Style and take it to heart.

You'll find it at the library along with plenty of other books dealing with the topic.

Now, how about you post a link to Stanford to indicate that you got an MFA from them and not some mail order outfit with a similar name?

Elaine Margarett
11-18-2011, 10:25 PM
So THAT'S where the "all your base are belong to us" space aliens ended up. Huh. Montana. Who would have thought they'd end up in Montana ...

Me! Me! (Waving hand in the air) They had to go somewhere after they left Nevada.

Elaine Margarett
11-18-2011, 10:28 PM
And yet a Google search does not reveal which newspaper Mr Egland apparently moguls. In fact, the only words connecting Richard Egland with newspapers seem to come from his own press release. Truly, a legend in his own mind ...



MM


Maybe it's misspelled. Did you try googling England ?

MacAllister
11-18-2011, 11:29 PM
Heh. This just in.

Via the Contact Us link, at the bottom of the forums:

The following message was sent to you via the Absolute Write Water Cooler Contact Us form by ParaDon Assitant ( mailto:support@paradonbooks.com ).

--------------------------------

Hello there, i'm writing you guys/gals to inform you that some web bandits have taken it upon themselves to tarnish our company by every ways possible. We are asking that you remove this post http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230026 from your website or else we'll be force to make our next litigation move against your operating website.

--------------------------------

Referring Page: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230026

Creative_Solitude
11-18-2011, 11:38 PM
LOLOLOLLOL!!!

Ooh this just gets better and better!

CaoPaux
11-18-2011, 11:39 PM
:rolleyes: I'm figured they were going for ParaGon. But I do wonder what an assitant is. Less than an assistant, more than an ... ant?

Creative_Solitude
11-18-2011, 11:41 PM
:rolleyes: I'm figured they were going for ParaGon.

Or ParaCon, perhaps?

JL_Benet
11-18-2011, 11:44 PM
Now, how about you post a link to Stanford to indicate that you got an MFA from them and not some mail order outfit with a similar name?
I don't understand what a link to the Stanford website would prove. Why not a screen-shot of the directory listing in the alumni directory? That way, you can actually tell if the person went to Stanford University, as opposed to Stanford Xavier University (a noted diploma mill). I just checked my alma-mater and found that I'm still listed in the current directory, with "alumni" as my designation. That might be true for Stanford as well. Even a scan of the actual diploma is now problematic, due to websites like Superior Fake Degrees and more powerful desktop photo manipulation software. No, only a verified site mantained by an the official organization would really prove it.
That said, I did not learn grammar at all in either undergrad or grad school. We were told to read Strunk & White's and commit it to memory, but that doesn't really work that well. I've always been pretty good (due to my middle and hgh school teachers), but it wasn't until I had to teach grammar that I really got it to the degree I do today.

Giant Baby
11-18-2011, 11:58 PM
Heh. This just in.



I was just thinking as I clicked that they were horribly overdue to register some choice usernames and start bingo rolling, but this is good too.

MacAllister
11-19-2011, 12:15 AM
What slimy rock did these friggin' idiots climb out from beneath? I responded with my boilerplate for these situations:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Absolute Write" <macallister4modstuff@gmail.com>
To: "ParaDon Assitant @ Absolute Write Water Cooler" <support@paradonbooks.com>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 12:27:12 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
Subject: Re: Absolute Write Water Cooler Contact Us Form - Site Feedback

Request denied. We never delete posts or threads at the request of a
third party. As I'm sure you're aware, under the DMCA, individuals are
responsible for the content of their own posts or comments on blogs,
message-boards, or list-serves.

sincerely,
MacAllister Stone
Owner/Admin

Their answer:

if that's the case then you can expect our cyber attack within the next few days if the feed is not deleted.

This, kiddies? This sort of threat is actually against federal law. And it's really dumb to send it from an unmasked IP, from an email address attached to your own domain.


And I'm off to file a TOS abuse report.
Just sayin'.

Calla Lily
11-19-2011, 12:16 AM
:Jaw: Incredible.

Giant Baby
11-19-2011, 12:24 AM
That's freaking delightful!

Richard White
11-19-2011, 12:26 AM
This should prove amusing.

<Mr. Burns> Excellent</Mr. Burns>

MacAllister
11-19-2011, 12:27 AM
It just gets better and better:
From me:

Oh, grow up.

This, kiddies? This sort of threat is actually against federal law.
And it's indescribably dumb to send it from an unmasked IP, from an
email address attached to your own domain.

So I'm off to file a TOS abuse report with your service provider; in
the meantime, I recommend you back away from the keyboard, before you
make matters even worse.

Mac

Their answer:

file your report, our cyber attack means publishing the same defamation about your site as you did us, we already have supporters much like your website willing to post our trends.

Remember -- these people want to PUBLISH you. :D

Richard White
11-19-2011, 12:29 AM
Maybe they'll hook up with the Write Agenda.

I mean, they were SO successful with their campaign.

Wicked
11-19-2011, 12:30 AM
Cyber attack? :Wha:

Well, that just screams legitimate right there, doesn't it?

Elaine Margarett
11-19-2011, 12:32 AM
So what are they going to say about AW, that you can't spell, type and have bad grammar? Wait, that's me!

Sorry, Mac... :-(

EM,
head lowered in shame

amergina
11-19-2011, 12:38 AM
Well, that's mighty unprofessional of them, huh?

Personally, I like business folks to be professional and have an ounce of common sense. Picky picky, I know.

Creative_Solitude
11-19-2011, 12:39 AM
Wow...just wow.

And these folk are wanting would-be authors to entrust their manuscripts with them when they can barely string together a coherent sentence? This an now cyber threats? Oh really, ParaGon?

IntelligentWriter
11-19-2011, 12:45 AM
sorry to burst your bubble you guys, but i know somebody that's already signed to them, and his book is due for release next year

Richard White
11-19-2011, 12:48 AM
We know a lot of people who've signed with PublishAmerica, Tate Publishing, and a ton of other poor choices.

That's why this board is here.

We're not going to stop everyone from making a mistake, but we're going to do our best to at least ensure facts are available for people to make an informed choice.

IntelligentWriter
11-19-2011, 12:51 AM
my friend is not a first-time writer either, so i trust there's something he found interesting about this publishing.

Wicked
11-19-2011, 12:56 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMKKwcq96NM

LindaJeanne
11-19-2011, 01:31 AM
my friend is not a first-time writer either, so i trust there's something he found interesting about this publishing.
I think I've seen (poor) grammar similar to this somewhere before recently. Where could it have been?

IntelligentWriter
11-19-2011, 01:33 AM
I think I've seen (poor) grammar similar to this somewhere before recently. Where could it have been?

please show me your resume mrs. english professor

LindaJeanne
11-19-2011, 01:34 AM
please show me your resume mrs. english professor
To what end?

IntelligentWriter
11-19-2011, 01:39 AM
To what end?

I'm awaiting the resume of every self-promoting don't-know-nothing people that's bashing this revolutionary publisher. I myself have submitted my story to them, and will be back in the future to 'Promote my published book' in this same forum. I'm still waiting for that resume that proves you know English grammar more than me. Please respond

Creative_Solitude
11-19-2011, 01:39 AM
sorry to burst your bubble you guys, but i know somebody that's already signed to them, and his book is due for release next year

And I shall pray for him.

LindaJeanne
11-19-2011, 01:41 AM
I'm still waiting for that resume that proves you know English grammar more than me. Please respond

My resume shows I'm a techie -- it's rather light on anything related to English grammar. So, it hardly seems relevant to the discussion.

JL_Benet
11-19-2011, 01:49 AM
please show me your resume mrs. english professor

I don't really feel like posting my entire resume here. Partly due to privacy issues, and partly due to it not really being germaine to the topic at hand. If you really want proof (even though I don't think I'm who you were referencing in your post above), my name should be listed on the English Department webpage of Metro State University (the one in Denver). I've taught English for over a decade, with much of that time devoted to the instruction of grammar and basic writing skills.
On the publishing side, I am professionally published myself. I was also on the Publications Committee of the Horror Writers Association, where I dealt with such publishers as Penguin Books and Pocket Books (as well as reputable small presses).
None of my resume really relates to the topic at hand though, as I have no connection to the publisher being discussed. This isn't about my informed opinion, it's about the reality of the publisher's experience and expertise.

Richard White
11-19-2011, 01:55 AM
Does anyone else notice the lack of capitalization and similar sentence structure in ParaDon's defender here and the e-mail that Mac's been getting?

Oh, and my publishing resume is in my profile, (before you ask).

Izz
11-19-2011, 01:59 AM
:popcorn:

IntelligentWriter
11-19-2011, 02:05 AM
I'll say no more. I guess only the future can tell. All i know is, literary agent don't respond to queries, major publishers don't accept unsolicited manuscripts, writing contests (which i have participated in and paid for few times) don't respond to tell you who won, and self-publishing is frowned upon. That's leave me no choice but to look to the next best thing, and i heard great things about this publisher before this discussion began. Most of the comments i read here are flawed, and self-promoting. I am not who you're conspiring to be. I just don't want you guys to tarnish the reputation of my future publisher. That said, i hope ParaDon Books read this post, and take my submission into great consideration. My name is Preston Browne

Friendly Frog
11-19-2011, 02:05 AM
file your report, our cyber attack means publishing the same defamation about your site as you did us, we already have supporters much like your website willing to post our trends.
Please excuse my newbie question :o but I'm intrigued. Not many of the AW'ers here seem particularly surprised by this... childish comment of a supposedly professional firm. (It's so surreal that at first I thought it had to be a joke.) Now I've read quite a bit of the PA threads, but is this sort of behaviour so common in publishing that pretty much none of you bat an eyelid?

Richard White
11-19-2011, 02:11 AM
Frog,

Most vanity presses don't like to get called out like this. They prefer to disguise what they do, because vanity presses have had a very bad reputation in the publishing world.

They also rely on the fact that many new authors do not understand publishing and therefore can get authors to pay for things the publisher should be paying for instead.

The more authors know, the harder it is for them to make a living, because vanity presses make most of their money on sales to their own authors and the fees they charge their authors - not in sales to the general public.

So, when we point this out, the vanity publishers tend to get a tad defensive. So they resort to sock puppetry, sending in some of their new authors to "defend their publisher" or out and out threats, so they don't lose access to the money.

If you want to read some real horror stories, go to the index and check out some of the gray links (dead publishers). Some had good intentions, some did not, but many took a lot of good books down with them when they capsized.

jennontheisland
11-19-2011, 02:13 AM
Please excuse my newbie question :o but I'm intrigued. Not many of the AW'ers here seem particularly surprised by this... childish comment of a supposedly professional firm. (It's so surreal that at first I thought it had to be a joke.) Now I've read quite a bit of the PA threads, but is this sort of behaviour so common in publishing that pretty much none of you bat an eyelid?
Yup. It's actually almost amusing to some of us to see the same game played over and over again too. You know how you sometimes can't help but rubberneck at accidents? Yeah, kinda like that.

The worst part is that too often people like the poor uninformed "Preston Brown" get suckered into thinking this is actually how publishing works. It's not. Agents do take on new clients. Publishers do accept unsolicited manuscripts. Writers do not have to pay anything to be published. These truths are unfortunately not self-evident and a lot of unscrupulous assholes like to take advantage of that.

Fortunately for us, unscrupulous assholes are rarely able to look like legitimate publishers.

Giant Baby
11-19-2011, 02:16 AM
I'm still waiting for that resume that proves you know English grammar more than me.

No resume on Earth can prove it any better than this sentence does all on its own. Thank you very much for playing.

IntelligentWriter
11-19-2011, 02:18 AM
Sorry to keep jabbing at you guys, but Richard White here is a self-published author. You out of everyone should know to keep your mouth shut. Hell will freeze before i self-published. Even though i may have to

JL_Benet
11-19-2011, 02:19 AM
Now I've read quite a bit of the PA threads, but is this sort of behaviour so common in publishing that pretty much none of you bat an eyelid?
PA is an extreme case. If you go through past threads, you will find that the better small presses come to this site and clarify misconceptions. You will also notice that their clarifications reveal that they actually know a great deal about the industry. We all make typos or use unclear language; we're human. You will notice that those publishers thank the people who pointed out their gaffs, and they immediately fix their website. Even when it's a matter of policy that isn't so easily fixed, they maintain a civil tone and explain their side with logic and reason.
You will also notice that many publishers seem to come to this site seemingly ready to fight. They don't understand the mission of the site and they think that they are being attacked for no good reason.
You will notice further that the second type of publisher doesn't stay afloat for much longer than a few years. Such an attitude towards the industry is not sustainable.

Calla Lily
11-19-2011, 02:22 AM
Agents do take on new clients. Publishers do accept unsolicited manuscripts. Writers do not have to pay anything to be published.

Exactly, jenn. This cannot be said enough. The list of AWers alone who were unknown, unconnected writers who researched agents and sent out queries (sometimes many queries :)), who landed an agent or got contracted directly with a publisher and who now have ebooks and/or books on actual bookstore shelves is wonderfully long. And I'm talking real, commercial publishers that follow Yog's Law. The only place I signed a check for my book was on the back.

Yog's Law. Real publishers follow it. Period.

MacAllister
11-19-2011, 02:27 AM
For those of you playing along at home - IntelligentWriter is indeed posting from exactly the same IP that the person purporting to represent ParaDon was emailing me from, earlier today.

Quelle surprise!

Richard White
11-19-2011, 02:27 AM
:e2point:
Sorry to keep jabbing at you guys, but Richard White here is a self-published author. You out of everyone should know to keep your mouth shut. Hell will freeze before i self-published. Even though i may have to

Self-published?

:roll:

Wow.

:e2point:

Seriously. Wow.

I had no idea that I owned Pocket Books, Big Finish, LTD., Byron Preiss Multimedia/Berekley publishing, or iBooks/Simon and Schuster

Someone alert my lawyer, I owe a WHOLE bunch of back taxes.

:snoopy::snoopy:

Calla Lily
11-19-2011, 02:28 AM
Richard, let me have my agent call you...

:D


Mac, shocked. I am shocked! :sarcasm

IntelligentWriter
11-19-2011, 02:30 AM
Exactly, jenn. This cannot be said enough. The list of AWers alone who were unknown, unconnected writers who researched agents and sent out queries (sometimes many queries :)), who landed an agent or got contracted directly with a publisher and who now have ebooks and/or books on actual bookstore shelves is wonderfully long. And I'm talking real, commercial publishers that follow Yog's Law. The only place I signed a check for my book was on the back.

Yog's Law. Real publishers follow it. Period.

I just visited your publisher's website. Not attractive at all.

IntelligentWriter
11-19-2011, 02:31 AM
:e2point:

Self-published?

:roll:

Wow.

:e2point:

Seriously. Wow.

I had no idea that I owned Pocket Books, Big Finish, LTD., Byron Preiss Multimedia/Berekley publishing, or iBooks/Simon and Schuster

Someone alert my lawyer, I owe a WHOLE bunch of back taxes.

:snoopy::snoopy:

shoot my mistake then, all i seen is that your book is PRINT-ON-DEMAND alarming!!!

MacAllister
11-19-2011, 02:31 AM
This isn't gonna be pretty.

Richard White
11-19-2011, 02:31 AM
Callalily, can I hook you up. ;)

O.K., I'll come clean. I did self-publish two comics (Troubleshooters, Inc. in 1994-95 and Chronicles of the Sea Dragon in 2004) under Nightwolf Graphics, my small press comic company.

I was a proud member of the great Black and White implosion of the mid-90s during the distributor wars.

Calla Lily
11-19-2011, 02:33 AM
Confession is good for the soul, Richard. :D

Marian Perera
11-19-2011, 02:33 AM
I just don't want you guys to tarnish the reputation of my future publisher.

What reputation?


That said, i hope ParaDon Books read this post, and take my submission into great consideration. My name is Preston Browne

If ParaDon takes a public rah-rah display into account when considering a submission (rather than judging the submission on its own merits), they're even more useless to serious writers.

Medievalist
11-19-2011, 02:36 AM
I'm awaiting the resume of every self-promoting don't-know-nothing people person that's bashing this revolutionary publisher. I myself have submitted my story to them, and will be back in the future return to 'Promote my published book' in this same forum. I'm still waiting for that resume résumé that proves you know English grammar more than me better than I. Please respond

There you go ducks!

And here's my résumé (http://www.lisaspangenberg.com/teaching/cv.html)--though technically, it's a c.v.

Now then, are you going to stop being silly on the Internet?

Because you're making a total ass of yourself, and in public, and in ways that are trackable and that are going to linger.

MacAllister
11-19-2011, 02:36 AM
IntelligentWriter, while you're here, perhaps you'd like to have an actual, civilized conversation and address some of the many concerns writers have about your company?

Are you an employee or an owner? How many employees does ParaDon have? What editing and publishing experience do the owners and employees bring to the table?

Richard White
11-19-2011, 02:37 AM
shoot my mistake then, all i seen is that your book is PRINT-ON-DEMAND alarming!!!

Please, just please quit while you have some dignity left.

Gauntlet Dark Legacy was published by iBooks and the Ultimate Hulk was published by Byron Preiss Multimedia. Gauntlet was distributed by Simon and Schuster and the Hulk anthology was distributed by Berekley. Neither are available any longer after the death of Byron Priess in 2005, when his publishing companies went into bankrupcy and the licenses reverted to their original owners.

The Doctor Who anthology I wrote for was put out by Big Finish, Ltd., who had the license for Doctor Who stories until about two years ago when the BBC took them back. Big Finish is still doing Doctor Who audio books, but "The Qualities of Leadership" is still available until their current stock runs out.

The two Star Trek books, "What's Past" and "The Sky's the Limit" are still available from stores and on order from Simon and Schuster as well as in e-book format. I'm still getting royalty checks from them and hope to write for them again.

Please, please, just quit.

IntelligentWriter
11-19-2011, 02:40 AM
last time i'll be on this site. Next time you hear from me, i'll be post my own book like you guys/gals. You have nothing - no evidence - to back up your claims, and i've proved some of you guys to be a liar. And so i don't work for ParaDon, i just like heated debate. BYE

waylander
11-19-2011, 02:40 AM
I'll say no more. I guess only the future can tell. All i know is, literary agent don't respond to queries, major publishers don't accept unsolicited manuscripts, writing contests (which i have participated in and paid for few times) don't respond to tell you who won, and self-publishing is frowned upon. That's leave me no choice but to look to the next best thing, and i heard great things about this publisher before this discussion began. Most of the comments i read here are flawed, and self-promoting. I am not who you're conspiring to be. I just don't want you guys to tarnish the reputation of my future publisher. That said, i hope ParaDon Books read this post, and take my submission into great consideration. My name is Preston Browne

Maybe to you they don't.
I got an agent.
Guess I must just be a better writer than you.

Gravity
11-19-2011, 02:41 AM
For those of you playing along at home - IntelligentWriter is indeed posting from exactly the same IP that the person purporting to represent ParaDon was emailing me from, earlier today.

Quelle surprise!


I like the puppets made from socks. :D

IntelligentWriter
11-19-2011, 02:41 AM
mistype.. before i'm ambushed. Correction.
this is the last time i'll be on this site. Next time you hear from me, i'll be posting and self-promoting my own book like you guys/gals. You have nothing - no evidence - to back up your claims, and i've proved some of you guys to be a liar. And no i don't work for ParaDon, i just like heated debate. BYE

Marian Perera
11-19-2011, 02:43 AM
last time i'll be on this site. Next time you hear from me, i'll be post my own book like you guys/gals.

If you're flouncing (which means "running away"), where do you plan to post your book?

Torgo
11-19-2011, 02:43 AM
I'm awaiting the resume of every self-promoting don't-know-nothing people that's bashing this revolutionary publisher. I myself have submitted my story to them, and will be back in the future to 'Promote my published book' in this same forum. I'm still waiting for that resume that proves you know English grammar more than me. Please respond

Ahahahahahahah!!!!!!!

AAAAAAhahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm crying with laughter! I really am. A tear just rolled down my cheek. This is gold. GOLD, Jerry! Never stop.

Jersey Chick
11-19-2011, 02:45 AM
This flounce gets a 2.

No, wait... a 1 1/2.

No... I'm feeling generous. 2 it is.

Medievalist
11-19-2011, 02:46 AM
And so i don't work for ParaDon, i just like heated debate. BYE

Are you an employee or an owner?

How many employees does ParaDon have?

What editing and publishing experience do the owners and employees bring to the table?

Why do you have an identical IP to the one used by ParaDon?

Why do you make the same spelling, punctuation and grammar errors that occur on the ParaDon Web site and email blasts?

Giant Baby
11-19-2011, 02:48 AM
This flounce gets a 2.

No, wait... a 1 1/2.

No... I'm feeling generous. 2 it is.

Now, now, don't be so quick to judge. IW is FAR from finished flouncing.

Let's wait a bit and score the complete performance!

Jersey Chick
11-19-2011, 02:51 AM
I'm waiting to be called a jellous looser and to be neenered. I'll give it a three if there's a neener involved. :D

JulieB
11-19-2011, 02:53 AM
I'm waiting to be called a jellous looser and to be neenered. I'll give it a three if there's a neener involved. :D

No Jerz. You're a jealouse toady bug. :D

Medievalist
11-19-2011, 02:53 AM
Now, now, don't be so quick to judge. IW is FAR from finished flouncing.

Let's wait a bit and score the complete performance!

It is, in fact, madly refreshing and clicking through to profiles.

Jersey Chick
11-19-2011, 02:56 AM
:popcorn:

Katrina S. Forest
11-19-2011, 02:56 AM
If you aren't getting any requests from agents, there's a much better option than going with the first self-proclaimed publisher who'll give you the time of day.* It's called write a better book.

And to anyone who bashes those who choose self-publishing (by the way, I've seen no such bashing on this forum, ever), I have every bit of respect for people who look at their options and decide self-publishing is the route for them. It's not easy, and it's a lot harder to build an audience, but it's better than paying someone to take your first-time rights away.

*Time-of-day giving requires a nominal fee of $5, just to make sure you're serious about getting the time of day.

Giant Baby
11-19-2011, 02:56 AM
Precious!

ETA: Ah, double-cross-post! This is in response to Medi.

LindaJeanne
11-19-2011, 02:56 AM
Does anyone else notice the lack of capitalization and similar sentence structure in ParaDon's defender here and the e-mail that Mac's been getting?

Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at with my comment about the grammar sounding familiar. :) I thought I'd read that voice earlier in the thread.


I just don't want you guys to tarnish the reputation of my future publisher. That said, i hope ParaDon Books read this post, and take my submission into great consideration. My name is Preston Browne

Wait, I thought it was your "friend" that was going to be published by ParaDon.


Edited to Add: Oh, darn it, I didn't realize there was a page 4 now. I missed all the fun while I was off grid during my commute!

Bubastes
11-19-2011, 02:58 AM
This flounce gets a 2.

No, wait... a 1 1/2.

No... I'm feeling generous. 2 it is.

LOL! Wait, I don't think the flounce is finished yet. I think it's only a pause.

:popcorn:


I'm waiting to be called a jellous looser and to be neenered. I'll give it a three if there's a neener involved. :D

Hey, isn't there a rule against bribing flounce judges like that?

Torgo
11-19-2011, 03:00 AM
It is, in fact, madly refreshing and clicking through to profiles.

HA!

The gift that keeps on giving.

JL_Benet
11-19-2011, 03:03 AM
You have nothing - no evidence - to back up your claims, and i've proved some of you guys to be a liar.
Which evidence are you referring to?
- The evidence of poor grammar and usage is right there in their own posts and on their own website.
- The evidence that some of us are actually English professors is easily Googled. My name is on the website of the institution at which I teach; my teaching certificate is on the searchable database at my state's Department of Education. My name is in the student and alumni databases at the schools at which I earned my degrees.
- The evidence of using the same IP address is easily posted (and most likely wasn't for your own privacy). I'm pretty sure the moderator of the site has access to that information. That is a rather stupid bluff to call, in my honest opinion.
- The evidence of policies that deviate from the standard business practices of the industry was actually quoted and dissected pretty well on the first few pages.

Katrina S. Forest
11-19-2011, 03:04 AM
Precious!

ETA: Ah, double-cross-post! This is in response to Medi.

Aw, I thought I was precious. :(

Now I have to go off and question my preciousness.

Jersey Chick
11-19-2011, 03:05 AM
Hey, isn't there a rule against bribing flounce judges like that?


No. everyone knows a neener is an automatic .5 points added to the score. :D

Izz
11-19-2011, 03:06 AM
:pinata:e2dance:

Psychomacologist
11-19-2011, 03:08 AM
:popcorn:

Buffysquirrel
11-19-2011, 03:10 AM
Can someone clarify what is the minimum educational level required to post in this thread?

Psychomacologist
11-19-2011, 03:11 AM
^I think you need an English degree.

I got in on a technicality. Popcorn?

Old Hack
11-19-2011, 03:13 AM
Hey, I've got an MA. With DISTINCTION. Am I overqualified? Or will I be allowed in if I try really hard to ignore it?

Giant Baby
11-19-2011, 03:15 AM
Aw, I thought I was precious. :(

Now I have to go off and question my preciousness.

Oh, but you are! Question not!

You're just precious with 0% of the implied sarcasm in my earlier post.

(Snottiness is such a delicate art when I don't use the quote function, and fail to sprinkle in the appropriate emoticons.)

:e2flowers

Calla Lily
11-19-2011, 03:16 AM
I only have a lowly BA. :cry: But I taught English to squirrels middle schoolers. And I'm a professional copyeditor.

*holds out plate of fresh scones* Can I come in?

jennontheisland
11-19-2011, 03:16 AM
Hey, I've got an MA. With DISTINCTION. Am I overqualified? Or will I be allowed in if I try really hard to ignore it?
You're the top half of the bell curve covering for those of us still working on our undergrad (in engineering, not english, but the first three letters are the same, so I'm counting it).

Psychomacologist
11-19-2011, 03:17 AM
I think we'd have to apply a handicap, Old Hack. You have to type with one hand tied behind your back and must use the word "chagrin" at least once in every post.

Bubastes
11-19-2011, 03:18 AM
You're the top half of the bell curve covering for those of us still working on our undergrad (in engineering, not english, but the first three letters are the same, so I'm counting it).

Hee, I'm in your club. I haz no English degrees. I barely took any English classes. I r underedumacated for dis thread.

Medievalist
11-19-2011, 03:19 AM
Can someone clarify what is the minimum educational level required to post in this thread?

I dunno; my official I.Q. is 42, so . . .

And honestly, if I were all that smart, why would I need so much schooling, hmm?

Psychomacologist
11-19-2011, 03:19 AM
I don't have an English degree either. But I am English so I don't need one to be a grammar pedant :D

Calla Lily
11-19-2011, 03:21 AM
^ But you neglected to finish the above sentence with the required punctuation.

A whap of the Official Evil Nun Ruler to your knuckles!

Buffysquirrel
11-19-2011, 03:21 AM
^I think you need an English degree.

I got in on a technicality. Popcorn?

Then I'm in! *chomps popcorn madly*

Old Hack
11-19-2011, 03:22 AM
Much to my chagrin, I often have to type with just one hand because I'm too busy lifting my glass with the other.

[How was that?]

Parametric
11-19-2011, 03:22 AM
Hey, I've got an MA. With DISTINCTION. Am I overqualified? Or will I be allowed in if I try really hard to ignore it?

I'm going to sit and stare jealously for a moment. :tongue Going nuts waiting for my masters results to drop through the letterbox.

jennontheisland
11-19-2011, 03:22 AM
Much to my chagrin, I often have to type with just one hand because I'm too busy lifting my glass with the other.

[How was that?]
Well, it's better than other possible reasons to be typing one handed on the internets.

Calla Lily
11-19-2011, 03:22 AM
That image fills me with chagrin.

ETA: jenn, :ROFL:

Giant Baby
11-19-2011, 03:23 AM
Hey, I've got an MA. With DISTINCTION. Am I overqualified? Or will I be allowed in if I try really hard to ignore it?

According to post #51, we must all be married, female English professors who eschew the use of caps. Everybody else, out of the pool!

Buffysquirrel
11-19-2011, 03:25 AM
According to post #51, we must all be married, female English professors who eschew the use of caps. Everybody else, out of the pool!

Can we sit on the pool edge and dangle our toes in the water?

Calla Lily
11-19-2011, 03:26 AM
I'm doomed. I can't swim.

Richard White
11-19-2011, 03:26 AM
Sorry, I only have my AA in English. Course, I have just started my Master of English candidacy.

I'm guessing spending the last twelve years as a Technical Writer doesn't really stand out among this august crowd. I'll just sit in the corner over here and stare at my print on demand, self-published books.

Psychomacologist
11-19-2011, 03:27 AM
^ But you neglected to finish the above sentence with the required punctuation.

A whap of the Official Evil Nun Ruler to your knuckles!
Hey! I punctuated with a smile. :D


Much to my chagrin, I often have to type with just one hand because I'm too busy lifting my glass with the other.

[How was that?]
That's a 9.5 from me!


According to post #51, we must all be married, female English professors who eschew the use of caps. Everybody else, out of the pool!
But it's fun in here! *sulks*

Jersey Chick
11-19-2011, 03:32 AM
I have an AA in Liberal Arts.

Someday I'll finish my BA. I'm only 2 semesters shy, and don't really think I need it anyway. :D

Gravity
11-19-2011, 03:32 AM
I can put quite of bit on English on the cue ball when I'm running the table; does that count?

Jersey Chick
11-19-2011, 03:35 AM
I can cut an English muffin in half.

Giant Baby
11-19-2011, 03:35 AM
Can we sit on the pool edge and dangle our toes in the water?

That'll require at least an assistant professorship. Please submit your resume to IW and await his reply.


I'm doomed. I can't swim.

You could have, you know. It's your publisher's ugly website that's robbed you of the ability to swim. I certainly hope you've learned your lesson now, you published author, you.


But it's fun in here! *sulks*

This thread is not about fun, this thread is about... things that are not fun. Please go insert 5 grammatical errors to each and every page of your WIP as penance. Thank you.

LindaJeanne
11-19-2011, 03:38 AM
According to post #51, we must all be married, female English professors who eschew the use of caps. Everybody else, out of the pool!

Aw, phooey.

I have a computer science degree, a library science degree, and a boyfriend. Does that count?

PS -- and I'm in favor of the Oxford comma!

Psychomacologist
11-19-2011, 03:38 AM
This thread is not about fun, this thread is about... things that are not fun. Please go insert 5 grammatical errors to each and every page of your WIP as penance. Thank you.
What do you mean, "insert"? :ROFL:

benbradley
11-19-2011, 03:39 AM
I knew I should have invested in corn...
:popcorn:

And far be it from me to second-guess The Owner of This Site, but I'd change that user subtitle title to "Sock Puppet, Tar And Feather At Will."

CobraMisfit
11-19-2011, 03:39 AM
For those of you playing along at home - IntelligentWriter is indeed posting from exactly the same IP that the person purporting to represent ParaDon was emailing me from, earlier today.

Quelle surprise!


What?! No WAY!

*clutches pearls. collapses into lounge chair*

Buffysquirrel
11-19-2011, 03:39 AM
That'll require at least an assistant professorship. Please submit your resume to IW and await his reply.

You realise that requires me to go write a resume? at midnight?

Calla Lily
11-19-2011, 03:39 AM
*dons sackcloth and sits in corner, pouring ashes on head*

Anaquana
11-19-2011, 03:40 AM
:nothing:popcorn:

Psychomacologist
11-19-2011, 03:41 AM
What?! No WAY!

*clutches pearls. collapses into lounge chair*
I KNEW you were a pearls man, Cobra!

BTW, do you have a resume? You need a resume to get into the thread. Quick, write one.

CobraMisfit
11-19-2011, 03:42 AM
I just visited your publisher's website. Not attractive at all.


I dunno, I'm kind of attracted to it. With it's binary codes and hyperlinks. My kind of gal, uh, website.

Unimportant
11-19-2011, 03:43 AM
Please excuse my newbie question :o but I'm intrigued. Not many of the AW'ers here seem particularly surprised by this... childish comment of a supposedly professional firm. (It's so surreal that at first I thought it had to be a joke.) Now I've read quite a bit of the PA threads, but is this sort of behaviour so common in publishing that pretty much none of you bat an eyelid?

The recent, similar response from Alleviate Publications (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222506) was actually more childish, more unprofessional, and more entertaining.

Calla Lily
11-19-2011, 03:43 AM
Anyone NOT in favor of the Oxford comma must open a new thread and write in it 1000 times, "I promise to learn, grow, and punctuate more better." No copy-paste allowed! The Evil Nun Ruler hovers over your vulnerable knuckles like the Sword of Damocles.

:D

ETA: Must go offline for awhile. I expect to read much hilarity and hijinks upon my return!

Gravity
11-19-2011, 03:48 AM
I just realized Our Esteemed Yet Grammatically-Challenged Visitor didn't hang around to collect his lovely parting gifts.

"Tell him what he won, Johnny!"

"It's ... a BRAND NEW CAR!!" (cue the crowd screams) :evil

Anaquana
11-19-2011, 03:49 AM
Anyone NOT in favor of the Oxford comma must open a new thread and write in it 1000 times, "I promise to learn, grow, and punctuate more better." No copy-paste allowed! The Evil Nun Ruler hovers over your vulnerable knuckles like the Sword of Damocles.

:D

Oooh... you're evil! :evil

CobraMisfit
11-19-2011, 03:49 AM
I KNEW you were a pearls man, Cobra!

BTW, do you have a resume? You need a resume to get into the thread. Quick, write one.


A resume? Oh carp.

Um, I think I finished the Internet today.

Oh, and I carried an English book in college. Wrote the number for a cute girl in it too. Then promptly misplaced the book. Took it as a sign and majored in math-heavy stuff instead.

That work?

Gillhoughly
11-19-2011, 03:52 AM
Sheesh, I go away for a couple of hours and miss the whole pie fight. Not fair!

IntelligentWriter, you've been busted by the head honcho of AW. We know you're no more Preston Browne than I'm Halle Berry, so move past that.

The flounce lacked professionalism, but we can let that go.

The main point is no one from ParaDon replied to any of the questions posed in my first post on the company.

Lashing out on the Internet about how awful AW is won't do you any good. It will only show a continued lack of professionalism and chase off potential customers.

Yours is not a "new" thing in publishing. Yours a remarkably old thing that is often attempted by failed writers. When they can't interest a legacy publisher in their work they bitch about the unfairness of it all and complain that agents won't give them a chance--anything but admit that their writing might need more work.

So they open their own house. Larry Clopper of PublishAmerica (look up that rat hole on Google) did the same thing, bad grammar and all.

You're inviting writers to send you 25.00 to read their stories. I'm sure there will be a few just dumb enough to do that. AW's job is to let the rest know it's a bad choice.

Unless the questions are addressed--who are your editing staff and their qualifications, who are your cover artists, show samples of their work, what are your distribution channels, etc.--then we've little choice but to conclude you've indulged in rather a lot of exaggeration to make the company seem more than it is.

But that reading fee and the poor grammar were the red flags that tipped off everyone.

For what it's worth, self-publishing, thanks to free venues like Kindle and RARE success stories like Amanda Hocking, is losing its bad rep. Yes, it's still a haven for slush pile rejections, but others have made it work and turned a profit.

I expect you've put considerable work into your website--with the exception of proofreading and grammar checks--and are spamming as many resource sites as you can find on Google.

But the fact stands: you're an amateur with no real resume and expect others with even less experience to pay you 25.00 to read their work.

Quit now and get a real job. You want to learn about publishing? Work for a publisher.

But polish up those grammar skills. More than once it's been noted that English is apparently a second language for you. Fix that. Plenty of others have.

cryaegm
11-19-2011, 03:59 AM
So, this is what happens when I play Batman: AC.:Wha: I miss all the fun stuff.

Damn it. *Goes back to page one to read it all.*

ETA: Now, I wonder what else I've been missing these couple of days. All because I wanted to play Batman: AC. D:

rainsmom
11-19-2011, 04:04 AM
DAMN! I missed it.

Can we implement some kind of auto text message system to notify us when something fun like this happens?

Psychomacologist
11-19-2011, 04:07 AM
We have one. It's called twitter :D

cryaegm
11-19-2011, 04:10 AM
We have one. It's called twitter :D
Yeah, that's kind of where I found out this was going on.

I didn't realize it blew up into SIX pages.

Damn you, Batman!

rainsmom
11-19-2011, 04:15 AM
I follow Mac, and that's where I heard about this. Did I just not check early enough, or is there another address I should be following?

Anninyn
11-19-2011, 04:37 AM
I was busy in Skyrim and all this happens while I'm trying to murder my way out of prison. Typical.

Sadly, I cannot comment in this thread as I only have an A level in English Literature.

Marian Perera
11-19-2011, 05:31 AM
Sadly, I cannot comment in this thread as I only have an A level in English Literature.

Me too. I am the Ralph Wiggum of this thread.

mscelina
11-19-2011, 06:01 AM
You know what's really disturbing? I'm too busy working in legitimate publishing these days to get in on a good scammer thrashing.

Life as I know it is over.

*sniff*

*disclaimer--the Celina who created this post is in no way, shape or form the same Celina mentioned amidst all the grammatical errors on the ParaDon website. No way, no how.*

triceretops
11-19-2011, 07:12 AM
Confession is good for the artistic soul, IW. You would be surprised how many publishers have been welcomed back here, and under new light and friendship.

I once stood in a line of applicants for a job. My turn at the desk, the interviewer asked if I had any licenses or certificates. I told him I was a certified pre-delivery service technician . He wrote it down.

When I turned to leave, a stunning female (Helen of Troy face--body by Michelangelo) put her hand on my shoulder and said, "How sweet that you deliver babies."

I saw a profound wonderment and admiration in her eyes. I would have carried on and fibbed like a kid after snitching pudding, believing that this guise was worth at least a lunch date, but I snapped out it 'cause my soul was in dire need of an overhaul. I confessed, "I'm sorry, but I worked for Toyota, where I prepped new cars before they were sold."

Her eyes crossed (beat), then she patted my shoulder. With a generous grin she said, "Then you bring little baby cars into the world. That's wonderful!"

She forgave me. And I knew I would have been damned to forbidden zone if I hadn't told the truth about my real vocation.

Confession is good for the soul.

AC Crispin
11-19-2011, 07:20 AM
I've had a cold all week, so I've been lazy about keeping up with AW. So I missed all the fun. Rats!

I really hope ParaDon hooks up with The Write Agenda. They deserve each other. TWA has slightly better grammar, so maybe the ParaDon dude will learn something. (I wouldn't take bets, though.)

Hey, guess what? The Price of Freedom actually got recognized today by a new contest for "traditionally published" genre fiction. This never happened to me before! It won for 2011 Fantasy novel. Can you believe it? Nice of them not to discriminate against a tie-in.

(Oh, and it was published by Disney, ParaDon. Not exactly self-published. Though what's wrong with that???)

Here's the link, if anyone's interested. http://forwardliteratureaward.com/2011_Award_Results.html

If I'm not supposed to share good news here, then please delete this post. But I confess to being surprised and delighted.

-Ann C. Crispin
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Price of Freedom
Disney Editins

Filigree
11-19-2011, 07:24 AM
S'okay, Celina, all you ultimately missed was a fish in a barrel.

It was pretty hilarious. I'm sure that IW can't stay away for long. In fact, allow me to poke a stick at IW's universe:

I'm not known as a writer, but as an artist. My artwork is text-based, and collected by ten major universities including U.C.L.A. and Yale. I have a lowly AA degree in technical writing. In my day job I write ad-copy and edit for technical professionals. I've sold one short story to a respected anthology. My recent fiction was good enough to get a pat on the head from a senior editor at a major publishing house. Any problems I've had getting an agent are my own fault, and I'm working on them. They will not be solved by throwing money at some fly-by-night scam publisher with fewer ethics than Jack Abramoff and Bernie Madoff combined.

Flounce back, baby, and give me your best shot!

Marian Perera
11-19-2011, 08:00 AM
Congratulations, Ann! :)

MacAllister
11-19-2011, 08:01 AM
Hurray, and congratulations, Ann!

JulieB
11-19-2011, 08:02 AM
I was an English minor and came thisclose to graduating with a double minor in Journalism. I've done a little editing, written a LOT of ad copy, some boring technical documents, ghostwrote for the spokescharacter for a retailer, and had a TV-tie in book and some fiction published. Or am I confusing the ad copy with the fiction? ;-) At any rate, I have never had to pay an editor to consider my work. Heck, they even pick up the bar tab. (What muscles! :D)

FOTSGreg
11-19-2011, 08:29 AM
I actually saw the announcement of this one from our dear friend Victoria Straus on FaceBook this evening (after watching Supernatural). I missed all the action and, technically, I ain't qualified to be heres neither (I am 1 semester shy of a BS in Biology, wrote for newspapers for over 10 years (won some awards for it too), have a DD and PhD (email order from Universal Life Church which means those pieces of paper and $5 will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks (the DD's legal in all 50 states as are the ministerial credentials), did tech writing for almost 15 years, and desktop and self-pubb'd for almost 15 years during the mid-90s/early ’00’s, plus my novel, a collection, and 10 short stories self-pubb'd on Amazon so far this year (with 2-3 more shorts and another novel in the pipeline already).

So's, I is self-pubb'd and not a Engrish professorial typage with not even the quals t' dip me toes in the water. I could bartend for ya'll though.

"Just once, I'd like the chance to shoot at a educated man."

I'm actually happy these things occur every once in awhile. They make my own AW gaffs seem trivial by comparison.

NYC_Writer_001
11-19-2011, 09:05 AM
This should prove amusing.

<Mr. Burns> Excellent</Mr. Burns>

Rest assured, Richard White's books are shit, they don't sell, he spends his time on these whiny-ass loser sites, he can't market his books, for the life of him, or his pathetic prose; he sucks hind tit as much as his books. He's a loser and suckles the breasts of Ann Crispin and Victoria Strauss; a Writer Beware want-to-be. Yeh, Crispin, you know the one that just "won" that "award." What a joke. Come on Ann, do something real. Impress us Ann. This award is so lame for an author of your stature.

jennontheisland
11-19-2011, 09:08 AM
*ding*

Round Two!

Gravity
11-19-2011, 09:13 AM
Hot diggity dog! I KNEW this thread wasn't done! :popcorn:

Cyia
11-19-2011, 09:17 AM
Awee :-( This is the second troll-wollop I've missed.

C.H. Valentino
11-19-2011, 09:36 AM
WTF?

Cyia
11-19-2011, 09:39 AM
Oh, and also this:

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm214/LizzieK_photos/MCF%20RTR/WhackATrollIwon120.jpg



I'm starting a petition to have one of these games installed in every forum. Then we can give trolls all the love and attention the crave. One. Whack. At. A. Time.

:D

FOTSGreg
11-19-2011, 09:39 AM
And the bell rings for the opening of the next round. First out on the mat is NYC Writer 001 who swings wildly, laying about him with all the care of a 1st grader in a playground fight. Pow! He strikes out at Richard White. Bam! He throws a punch at Ann Crispin. Socko! He kicks at Victoria Strauss.

Now entering the ring, however, are opponents whom NYC Writer 001 has never envisaged facing in all his or her short history. I hope he's prepared, because the opponents he's about to face are formidable indeed.

And now, ladies and gentlemen, our first of the second round...

C.H. Valentino
11-19-2011, 09:41 AM
Cyia, I'm still stuck on "breast suckling"

Gillhoughly
11-19-2011, 09:57 AM
It's "Nick Caruso". Check his previous posts.


Medievalist, I'm not anonymous. My name is Nick Caruso. Did your parents really name you "Medievalist" or is that something that you just hide behind? I'm anonymous? Sure, I'm new and working on my...

A.K.A. Bouncing Bobby Fletcher of Strategic Books and Write Agenda.

A.R. Starr
11-19-2011, 10:05 AM
Oh yay! I didn't miss all the fun! *brings out popcorn to share*

MacAllister
11-19-2011, 10:09 AM
I think it says something important about the room culture that you guys would rather whack the piñata, so no one reports the post.

Hee!

(Just for the record? I have one of Richard's self-pupped comics, and a couple of his tie-in books. He's a quite good writer. And self-pubbing indie comics was sort of the state-of-the-art, for a long, long time.)

Medievalist
11-19-2011, 10:10 AM
Hey, guess what? The Price of Freedom actually got recognized today by a new contest for "traditionally published" genre fiction. This never happened to me before! It won for 2011 Fantasy novel. Can you believe it? Nice of them not to discriminate against a tie-in.

That's super!

Also post in Goals, and Tweet it so I can re-tweet. That's terribly promising news for a lot of good books by good authors that are tie-ins.

Velma deSelby Bowen
11-19-2011, 10:10 AM
Mother of gods. I go away from this site for a couple of hours, and all sorts of weirdness happens.

Cyia
11-19-2011, 10:12 AM
I think it says something important about the room culture that you guys would rather whack the piñata, so no one reports the post.

Hee!


:( I reported the post.

*haz disappointed Mac*

*hangs head in shame*

A.R. Starr
11-19-2011, 10:12 AM
I think it says something important about the room culture that you guys would rather whack the piñata, so no one reports the post.


Call it stress relief? :)

MacAllister
11-19-2011, 10:14 AM
:( I reported the post.

*haz disappointed Mac*

*hangs head in shame*

Not at all! In fact, I'm sorta encouraged. <g> It's the right thing to do -- even if it's not as much fun as playing with your prey...

FOTSGreg
11-19-2011, 10:15 AM
V, it's always been one of the reasons I come back to AW. There's always something to make me laugh waiting just around the end of the current or the next thread.

The pros, semi-pros, and others here are a constant source of amazement, inspiration, excitement, and amusement for this jaded old sob.

Even when I manage to piss Mac off (by being a bigger sob than I usually am).

:)

Richard White
11-19-2011, 10:17 AM
Rest assured, Richard White's books are shit, they don't sell, he spends his time on these whiny-ass loser sites, he can't market his books, for the life of him, or his pathetic prose; he sucks hind tit as much as his books. He's a loser and suckles the breasts of Ann Crispin and Victoria Strauss; a Writer Beware want-to-be. Yeh, Crispin, you know the one that just "won" that "award." What a joke. Come on Ann, do something real. Impress us Ann. This award is so lame for an author of your stature.

*yawn*

Wow, you step away for a bit to take care of some stuff and look at what happens. Someone not even involved in the incident decides to step in and completely shoot themselves in the foot in a manner that makes ol' IW seem like a reasonably competent sockpuppet.

"Nick", it's a Friday evening before a holiday, and it's obvious you've been in the vino again. Seriously, posting on a bulletin board drunk is a bad thing, no matter what the rest of the guys in the frat house think.

:e2drunk:

Course, if you're really Bouncing Bobby, then I've seen tons of your fiction - it's called the letters you send to the people you're trying to rip off under your 1001 fictitious names. How's that whole Write Agenda thing going for you?

Although this letter, if from Bobby, is a tad more aggressive than he was when we met face to face at BEA a few years ago. Then, when he thought he might lure me in as a customer, he was quite genteel in his conversation.

Either way, I rate it a *meh* on the scale of internet insulting.

Medievalist
11-19-2011, 10:18 AM
It's "Nick Caruso". Check his previous posts.

A.K.A. Bouncing Bobby Fletcher of Strategic Books and Write Agenda.

Yeah, the breast-and-nursing-fetish is a dead giveaway.

Still makes me snicker that the dude could miss a name as euphonious as mine, and one that's on Every Single Post I've Ever Made.

MacAllister
11-19-2011, 10:18 AM
The pros, semi-pros, and others here are a constant source of amazement, inspiration, excitement, and amusement for this jaded old sob.

Even when I manage to piss Mac off (by being a bigger sob than I usually am).

:)
Heh. No worries, Greg. Since I've got distinct SOB tendencies my own self, I rather strongly suspect I've pissed you off a time or two, as well -- so it all works out, right?

FOTSGreg
11-19-2011, 10:21 AM
Oh, Richard scores a right hook and NYC Writer 001 hits the mat. He's down...

Gillhoughly
11-19-2011, 10:21 AM
Yeah, I reported it, too. I'm surprised he's still got an active account, since he's left troll droppings elsewhere on AW

I remembered the "Nick Caruso" ID from some other place.

And that's another thread. I'm out of this one unless it's to do with ParaDon. Feeding trolls is boring.

MacAllister
11-19-2011, 10:25 AM
No worries, Gil -- I'm right there with you. The troll is already bounced, I just forgot to change the user-group title.

Interacting with it's just not worth the energy.

Gillhoughly
11-19-2011, 10:27 AM
:D

That's good news.

A drunk troll off his meds is just not fun.

But I like the pinata idea. I'll bring the baseball bats. Who's for a road trip to Rat's Mouth, FL?

Richard White
11-19-2011, 10:31 AM
Can I bring my shinai instead? Much more effective on pinatas (and trolls).

Richard White
11-19-2011, 10:37 AM
I think it says something important about the room culture that you guys would rather whack the piñata, so no one reports the post.

Hee!

(Just for the record? I have one of Richard's self-pupped comics, and a couple of his tie-in books. He's a quite good writer. And self-pubbing indie comics was sort of the state-of-the-art, for a long, long time.)

Wow, where's a blushing smiley when you need one. *blush*

O.K., boss, I'll behave better and report the trolls when they show up instead of antagonizing them. That'll teach me to listen to that little billy goat. I blame him for telling me to follow him out onto that bridge.

cryaegm
11-19-2011, 10:53 AM
;=; I missed the fun, AGAIN! Thanks SO MUCH, Batman.

Oh, and I confess: My brain thinks Ann C. Crispin and Victoria Strauss are the same person. D: I don't know why. I try to correct my brain, but it doesn't believe me half the time.

MacAllister
11-19-2011, 10:59 AM
;=; I missed the fun, AGAIN! Thanks SO MUCH, Batman.

Oh, and I confess: My brain thinks Ann C. Crispin and Victoria Strauss are the same person. D: I don't know why. I try to correct my brain, but it doesn't believe me half the time.

Although I've never been in the same room with either of 'em, let alone both of 'em at the same time, I reckon that would come as a startling development to their respective families.

cryaegm
11-19-2011, 11:04 AM
Although I've never been in the same room with either of 'em, let alone both of 'em at the same time, I reckon that would come as a startling development to their respective families.
*Sigh.* Yeah, and that's why I feel bad when my brain goes back to thinking they're just one person.

Anne Lyle
11-19-2011, 12:02 PM
So, I missed all the fun again, thanks to being asleep (rassen-frassen time zones!).

OTOH I only have 'O'-level English (Grade A, admittedly), and my publisher only won a World Fantasy Award (http://angryrobotbooks.com/2011/10/angry-robot-and-the-world-fantasy-awards-2011/) last month so I'm probably not worthy of IW's attention...

Bubastes
11-19-2011, 03:46 PM
Not at all! In fact, I'm sorta encouraged. <g> It's the right thing to do -- even if it's not as much fun as playing with your prey...

Hey, I'm a cat. What do you expect?

aliceshortcake
11-19-2011, 05:01 PM
Bloody hell! When I went to bed last night this thread was two pages long. I was rather disappointed that neither newspaper mogul Richard Egland nor Stanford graduate Celina Marka had bothered to turn up and defend themselves. To think that I slept through all this drama!

Richard and/or Celina, it isn't too late for you to come back and name those professional editors, cover artists etc working for ParaDon. We'd also like to know why a publisher with a world-wide distribution network is advertising for independent sales reps to sell your books at parties and out of the trunks of their cars.

By the way, I e-mailed Stanford University last night to ask if a Celina Marka graduated with an MFA degree in 2008.

Friendly Frog
11-19-2011, 05:21 PM
Well, this thread has been an eduction, to say the least.

Oh, and many thanks to those who took the time to answer my question about 5 pages back. :Hail:

CobraMisfit
11-19-2011, 07:41 PM
Still makes me snicker that the dude could miss a name as euphonious as mine, and one that's on Every Single Post I've Ever Made.

Woah, woah, woah....


Med's Real World Name isn't Medievalist?


*stunned silence*


BTW, did anyone else see that NYC's subject line read "Richard White's books are the s***!"? Kinda' decreases the impact of the bashing comment, unless he/she was being *gasp* clever!


(Which I doubt was the case)

TheOneTrueBen
11-19-2011, 07:45 PM
Frak, I missed ALL the fun, too. And here I've been hoping to torque of Nick Caruso badly enough he bans my books and ups my sales!

Then again, my only claim to knowledge of the English language (aside from being a native speaker and all but eliminating a Texas accent as a survival tactic) is a high school education with a few English classes in college, so I'm probably not qualified to even READ this thread, much less post on it.

Thank you for such an entertaining read. I'm off to read the one thread someone posted a link to from another press. I'll check back in a few hours to see what else I've missed.

Parentetically,
The One, True Ben

Jersey Chick
11-19-2011, 07:58 PM
Curse you, sleep. You made me miss fun.

Oh well... **sigh**

Wayne K
11-19-2011, 08:00 PM
:nothing:

areteus
11-19-2011, 08:01 PM
I love car crash threads. They are so entertaining, though I warn you all that some of you are edging very close to violating the International Conventions of Internet Rights by entering into mental combat with an unarmed opponent (it's section 3, paragraph 4b if you want to look that one up, just after the inderdiction on comparing anyone you don't like the opinion of to Hitler).

I only have GCSE English but I am arrogant and self assured enough to know when I am right about any grammar usage because I got a Mother F'ing A on that exam. Plus, I have other degrees in other subjects, including one that qualifies me to teach literacy to 10 year olds. And if 1 undergrad degree, 2 post grad degrees and a post grad teaching degree aren't enough I'll go and get my wife and our mates and we'll wade in with a handful of doctorates and a whole bushel of bachelor's degrees (some of them Oxbridge) :).

Oh, and those are real degrees. From real universities. That, you know, actually did some teaching and expected an effort from students rather than just a 'tuition payment' and P&P for the certificate...

Self publishing and POD... I think there needs to be another thread on this somewhere to properly debate this issue (can't remember if there is one out there or not...). I know I am too late to answer our Trolls' points but a couple of things anyone who thinks that either self publishing or POD are universally 'bad things' should consider:

1) Many self published books are actually books which have already been published and have had their rights released by the publisher back to the author so they can release it again.

2) I know of several small press publishers who use POD to release their books. For small press it is actually more economically viable to do it this way rather than risk a lot of cash on a print run which, while cheaper per unit in the long term, puts you at risk of greater loss if the book does not sell.

3) As I stated recently in my blog post on this issue (http://lurkingmusings.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/reflections-on-self-publication/) there are actually quite a few self published works out there which are not at all bad. Some are even of a quality which could be published but probably missed out because publishers did not see marketable value (due to being niche interest, for example).

Looking forward to the next troll attack (I have the flask of oil and the flaming torch for when you lot stab all its hit points out and we need to burn it to stop it regenerating...) as they are so much fun to watch...

Gillhoughly
11-19-2011, 08:13 PM
I went through a few other threads and it's a predictable pattern.

Dear Celina Marka,

You need to read this, since we've dealt with similar situations before. You followed the pattern set by others before you as though you had an instruction sheet:

Someone busts a possible scam operation or at least a new publisher with serious problems who charges fees.

The website's flaws are dissected in detail. Some mockage takes place at the publisher's expense.

Shortly after, probably drawn by a Google search of the operation's name, someone turns up claiming to be associated with the operation.

They heap praise on it, accuse AW members of being unpublished failures, and so on and so on.

Soon the "writer" -- due to those pesky ISP addies -- is busted as being the publisher.

In some cases the publisher himself responds, says nice things about his/her business, and wholly ignores the issues that make it a bad choice for writers.

Nasty exchange of fire follows -- none of which addresses the publisher's problems -- then a flouncing exit.

This week's variation had a party crasher providing limited amusement.

Bouncing Bobby Fletcher was probably drawn in when someone mentioned Write Agenda. I'm sure he's wasted no time in contacting Ms. Marka to urge her to jump in bed with him.

Ms. Marka--for your own sake do a Google search of The Write Agenda before you reply to its anonymous overtures. You do NOT need to deal with that kind of grief or have their slime on your name.

TheOneTrueBen
11-19-2011, 08:15 PM
Have to agree with you on the POD issue, aretus. My small press publisher uses print on demand. And there are quite a few good authors who turned self-publishing into multi-book contracts, H.P. Mallory being my personal self-pub-to-trad-pub hero.

Just to move things back on track a little:
But paying someone like Paradon to read my manuscript? How does that make their service any better than uploading my manuscript to Amazon for FREE and making up to 70% on the sales without paying them a single dime? If their website is any indication to the quality of their editing, I'm overpaying them just to read my manuscript! I'd be afraid that upon submitting it to them that my book would spontaneously develop grammar and spelling errors, not to mention punctuation and capitalization issues just from letting them have it!

The logic does not work for me.

jennontheisland
11-19-2011, 08:30 PM
Apparently there are three of us here who are "no one". ;)

Anninyn
11-19-2011, 08:37 PM
Oh dear. Self awareness is needed, as no legitimate publisher would need to do this to prove themselves falsely accused.

They'd just need to answer our questions honestly.
I am finding this very entertaining, and will never submit to this publisher. Ever.

Calla Lily
11-19-2011, 08:38 PM
Darn it, I missed round 2 completely!

*pouts*

Kateness
11-19-2011, 08:56 PM
I've been reading this thread but not joined in. Not only am I an unpublished loser, who is thus totally unqualified to join the discussion, but I don't even have an English degree. I do have an Ivy League education, though, so does that make up for it, or no?

areteus
11-19-2011, 08:58 PM
Just to move things back on track a little:
But paying someone like Paradon to read my manuscript? How does that make their service any better than uploading my manuscript to Amazon for FREE and making up to 70% on the sales without paying them a single dime? If their website is any indication to the quality of their editing, I'm overpaying them just to read my manuscript! I'd be afraid that upon submitting it to them that my book would spontaneously develop grammar and spelling errors, not to mention punctuation and capitalization issues just from letting them have it!

The logic does not work for me.

It makes logical sense to the publisher every time they convince someone to pay for the 'service'.* Though, frankly, if you are advertising an allegedly professional service in which you promised to review manuscripts for publication in exchange for a fee, one would expect them to be able to demonstrate an ability to actually write a coherent sentence or two themselves...

*And unfortunately the economics of this work out in much the same way as spam e-mail. It costs very little to set up a website (I could talk to some friends tomorrow and get it done by the end of the day AND it would be free of grammar mistakes...), call it $10 a year if you don't pay a web designer, and that is pretty much the only set up costs you need for a scam like this. If anyone at all actually sends you a manuscript with a $25 payment you have already made a profit and every subsequent $25 payment is a further profit. Plus, you can follow the PA model and consider offering other 'extras' such as agreeing to staple manuscripts to Stephen King's head so he is forced to read them for the 'reasonable' sum of $200 and basically you can milk it for all it is worth. All of this is profit, once you have paid your annual domain name fees. You don't even have to pay any staff as you don't actually need to really edit the manuscripts and since you are only selling to the author's friends and family you can use POD to avoid any print costs and not have to bother with any publicity.

The only logic is from the scammer's PoV, though. It is illogical from the writer's PoV...

aliceshortcake
11-19-2011, 10:01 PM
*sweeps away troll droppings, sockpuppet fluff and bits of exploded irony meter*

The more I look at ParaDon Books the more I'm reminded of the 419 scammers; they both use the same laughably over-the-top claims, bombastic tone and weird English. I kept expecting intelligentwriter (sic) to inform us that he needs our help to move his 200 million dollar inheritance out of Nigeria. Have the lads from Lagos moved to Montana?

LindaJeanne
11-19-2011, 10:31 PM
*sweeps away troll droppings, sockpuppet fluff and bits of exploded irony meter*

The more I look at ParaDon Books the more I'm reminded of the 419 scammers; they both use the same laughably over-the-top claims, bombastic tone and weird English. I kept expecting intelligentwriter (sic) to inform us that he needs our help to move his 200 million dollar inheritance out of Nigeria. Have the lads from Lagos moved to Montana?

It definitely has that 419 vibe to it.

But then, since people have actually fallen for the original Nigeria scam, someone is probably going to send this guy an MS and $25.

A scam works because it tells people what they want to hear. The claims he's making about the publishing industry and self-publishing alternatives are what someone wants to hear.

And anyone who isn't scared away by such a badly edited publisher page probably isn't writing in a manner that's going to get them anything more than a form rejection from agents or publishers. (Edited to add: speaking of poor editing, I just re-read this sentence, and, um, yeah :tongue. Since it's been quoted, I'll leave it as-is -- I'll claim I was going for irony. Yeah, that's the ticket.).

Anne Lyle
11-19-2011, 10:53 PM
And anyone who isn't scared away by such a badly edited publisher page probably isn't writing in a manner that's going to get them anything more than a form rejection from agents or publishers.

So true. These guys aren't looking to scam writers with even a modicum of skill, otherwise they'd put on a more convincing show. They're out for the barely-literate ones with $25 to throw away and a desperate desire to be published.

They almost make PA look respectable. Almost.

TheOneTrueBen
11-19-2011, 11:15 PM
It makes logical sense to the publisher every time they convince someone to pay for the 'service'.*
The only logic is from the scammer's PoV, though. It is illogical from the writer's PoV...

My point exactly. I do forget to insert the sarcasm indicator sometimes. :sarcasm

aliceshortcake
11-19-2011, 11:42 PM
All we need now is a Wiccan curse to really get this party swinging. And for those of you who haven't heard of Lanaia Lee, get Googling - you have a treat in store!

C. K. Casner
11-19-2011, 11:57 PM
Damn it, I take a few days off from lurking ... Nice to see ya Nick/Bobby. Are you still tracking me on the web, or have you found something better to do?

TheOneTrueBen
11-20-2011, 12:14 AM
All we need now is a Wiccan curse to really get this party swinging.

So, Sheryl Pilsbury threatened folks with a curse? :roll:

Beware, writer ascending soapbox::Soapbox:
Love her line "Yes, I am Wicca", got news for ya hon, no, yer not. Minor misspelling aside (Wiccan not Wicca), no self-respecting Wiccan would threaten to use a curse. That whole Threefold Law thing. It's called karma and it's a bitch. We also have this simple rule "An it harm none, do as ye will". So, if there are any curses to be flung about, rest assured, they ain't Wiccan :)

Thank you for your patience and tolerance. The bitching shall now cease.

C. K. Casner
11-20-2011, 12:20 AM
A curse? Seriously? Sometimes people amaze me.

FOTSGreg
11-20-2011, 12:55 AM
Um, I know this is kinda' off topic, but how can "a great piece of art" look good on my "digital library"?

I know, I know. I'd have the cover art on my ereader. But then, how does it end up looking great on my furniture?

Oh, oh! Do I get a holographic projection of the cover as part of my fee so I can have the best of both worlds?

aliceshortcake
11-20-2011, 12:55 AM
I don't know how I managed to live without AbsoluteWrite. Until I stumbled across this site about a year ago I had no idea what went on in (and around) the publishing industry. Vanity presses, utterly clueless start-up publishers, crooked agents, the saga of PublishAmerica - it was a revelation to me. Then, just when I thought I'd seen everything, along comes ParaDon Books to boggle my mind still further...

DreamWeaver
11-20-2011, 01:09 AM
"In the upcoming months when you buy one of our books, you’ll not only be getting a great story but you’ll also be owning a great piece of art that will look good on your furniture or digital library."Oh man, I *love* things that look good on my furniture! Brad Pitt, Matt Damon, Patrick Dempsey... :D

C. K. Casner
11-20-2011, 01:31 AM
Oh man, I *love* things that look good on my furniture! Brad Pitt, Matt Damon, Patrick Dempsey... :D

Hugh Jackman, the cast of '300' and Starz 'Spartacus', (sorry, I have a weakness for well-formed abs) Johnny Depp ... the list goes on.

Giant Baby
11-20-2011, 01:40 AM
Bags of money, diamonds... Johnny Depp holding bags of money and diamonds.

Not sure how he'll look in my digital library, but I suppose I'll just have to find a way to cram him in there.

aliceshortcake
11-20-2011, 01:45 AM
Going back to ParaDon's short story competition for a moment: these stories will be read (for $5), chosen, and presumably edited by a Stanford University graduate who can barely string together a coherent sentence. Said stories by unknown writers will then be published by an unknown press owned by Richard Egland, an unknown media mogul, then sold at Tupperware-style parties and out of car trunks.

Who the hell is going to buy this book? Anthologies of short stories by well-known authors, edited by professional editors, and published by the top publishers are notoriously poor sellers. The only people who buy this doomed volume will be the authors and a few of their friends and relatives.

That's assuming, of course, that ParaDon really intends to publish anything.

chopper
11-20-2011, 02:24 AM
oh boy, that's one seriously amateur website. whoever mentioned billionaire widows trapped in Nigeria really had a point - every single sentence screams "I'm a scam!"

let's hope they put their "Recommended by the Write Agenda" badge on the front page...

Momento Mori
11-20-2011, 02:27 AM
:stretches:

:yawns:

So ... what did I miss? And why does it smell like damp troll in here?

MM

aliceshortcake
11-20-2011, 02:30 AM
*Squirts lavish amounts of air freshener around the thread*

Better now?

Momento Mori
11-20-2011, 02:41 AM
Oooh. Much better. Lemony fresh.

Always a shame when someone comes here and spreads batshit around the place.

Are we returning to our scheduled viewing? If so, can someone let me have some popcorn? Sweet if we've got it.

MM

Kateness
11-20-2011, 02:48 AM
*makes regular popcorn and caramel corn*

Everyone set?

I've got liquor as well, if needed.
:D

Calla Lily
11-20-2011, 02:55 AM
*sits in the comfy chair with popcorn and diet pop*

Yes, I brought more to drink or for mixers. My mama taught me how to hostess. :)

Giant Baby
11-20-2011, 03:20 AM
Oooh. Much better. Lemony fresh.

Always a shame when someone comes here and spreads batshit around the place.

Are we returning to our scheduled viewing? If so, can someone let me have some popcorn? Sweet if we've got it.

MM

Mmm... Hold up, MM. Aren't you an actual, honest-to-Bono, bonafied lawyer? Because, if you are, I'm not sure your qualifications meet what IW was looking for here, in the role of "mrs. english professor." He was pretty specific.

Sorry, counselor. The good news is, the liquor, popcorn, and comfortable seating is all located along the perimeter with the happy outcasts. Also, sexy men have started taking up residence on the couches (with room for more sexy!). It's your basic post-flounce wrap-up show, and the viewing is FAR better from Calla's comphy chairs!

LindaJeanne
11-20-2011, 03:23 AM
Mmm... Hold up, MM. Aren't you an actual, honest-to-Bono, bonafied lawyer? Because, if you are, I'm not sure your qualifications meet what IW was looking for here, in the role of "mrs. english professor." He was pretty specific.
I'm highly, highly tempted to change my user-title to "mrs. english professor" (lower-case and all).

Momento Mori
11-20-2011, 03:39 AM
Giant Baby:
Hold up, MM. Aren't you an actual, honest-to-Bono, bonafied lawyer? Because, if you are, I'm not sure your qualifications meet what IW was looking for here, in the role of "mrs. english professor."

Are you questioning the integrity of my internet diploma in teh legel? I paid good money for that diploma and it means that I talk law gud and spell legel gud. If you is saying that my diploma is no gud then I will hit you with a cyber attack from my internet lawyer and then you'll be sorry mr internet questioner person!

:pulls up couch with the other outcasts:

:ogles teh sexy men:

:opens beer:

MM

Giant Baby
11-20-2011, 03:58 AM
I'm highly, highly tempted to change my user-title to "mrs. english professor" (lower-case and all).

Ah, but if you'd only done it when poor IW was around, he mighta been dazzled by your apparent credentials.


Are you questioning the integrity of my internet diploma in teh legel? I paid good money for that diploma and it means that I talk law gud and spell legel gud. If you is saying that my diploma is no gud then I will hit you with a cyber attack from my internet lawyer and then you'll be sorry mr internet questioner person!

But are you a "mrs. english professor"? If not... well nothing. At this point, I'm just saying... Well, he's gone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnVXIUyshng).


:pulls up couch with the other outcasts:

:ogles teh sexy men:

:opens beer:

MM

That's the spirit!

rosiroo
11-20-2011, 04:59 AM
*Squirts lavish amounts of air freshener around the thread*

Better now?

oh god, your sig is really making me laugh! :D

Jersey Chick
11-20-2011, 05:55 AM
I love this thread.

benbradley
11-20-2011, 08:12 AM
On the Internet no one know you're a dog from Lagos Montana.

Shrouded
11-20-2011, 08:44 AM
I do desire we may be better strangers. - Shakespeare, As You Like It

HapiSofi
11-20-2011, 12:39 PM
What a beautiful thread. I'm just sorry I missed this opportunity to reply:

I'm awaiting the resume of every self-promoting don't-know-nothing people that's bashing this revolutionary publisher. I myself have submitted my story to them, and will be back in the future to 'Promote my published book' in this same forum. I'm still waiting for that resume that proves you know English grammar more than me. Please respond
I'm right and I know it. I don't need credentials.

aliceshortcake
11-20-2011, 03:18 PM
I love the "self-promoting" bit, considering that anyone published by this merry band of illiterates will have to self-promote like mad to boost their sales into double figures.

Richard/Celina/Intelligentwriter: if you're still lurking, we need to know the names of your editors and cover artists. We'd also appreciate an explanation for why a newspaper mogul and a newspaper columnist are invisible to Google. At the moment I'm inclined to think that you're all the same person and that this mysterious newspaper is a figment of your imagination. :crazy:

Mods, have you heard from ParaDon's cartooney yet? Or are you battening down the hatches in preparation for ParaDon's cyber-attack?

Anne Lyle
11-20-2011, 03:21 PM
Chrome is refusing to load the ParaDon website (I fancied a laugh) - perhaps their cyber-attack has rebounded?

Anne Lyle
11-20-2011, 03:36 PM
Interestingly, the ebooks currently being published by "Paradon" are nearly all by apparently genuine self-help author Charles F Wetherall, and appear to be reissues of books from as far back as the late 80s:

http://cheapdietbooks.com/Paradon_Publishing.html

Has this new vanity press bought up an existing company? Have they duped an elderly doctor into being their first customer? I'd be pretty miffed if I were Charles Wetherall!

(Assuming Mr Wetherall isn't the "brains" behind Paradon - why claim to be a newspaper mogul if you are really a successful diet guru?)

aliceshortcake
11-20-2011, 04:34 PM
I don't think that's the same company. Paradon Publishing seems to have been in business for a few years, ParaDon Books Publishing hasn't published anything yet (and probably never will). I expect the jokers we're discussing used "ParaDon" to distinguish themselves from the older company.

amergina
11-20-2011, 05:52 PM
Man, I go to DC to see the Anglo-Saxon hoard and miss the juicy parts of this!

OTOH, Anglo- Saxon gold. Don't see that everyday.

LindaJeanne
11-20-2011, 07:27 PM
I don't think they are the same company.

Paradon Publishing seems to be in Minnestota, while ParaDon Books is in Montana.

Plus there seems to be a persistent difference in the capitalization, and the use of "Books" vs "Publishing" as the second word.


Edited to Add: There's no way that Paradon Publishing and ParaDon Books are the same company
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/product-compint-0000705699-page.html
http://www.linkedin.com/in/charleswetherall

I wonder if someone should warn Mr. Wetherall about this other company with such a similar name appearing and making such a bad impression on people?

.

Anne Lyle
11-20-2011, 07:55 PM
I wonder if someone should warn Mr. Wetherall about this other company with such a similar name appearing and making such a bad impression on people?


I think someone should notify Paradon Publishing (if they don't already know) that a Google of their company name also brings up results for ParaDon.

In the UK, making yourself appear to be another company is called "passing off" and is illegal.

aliceshortcake
11-20-2011, 08:34 PM
I can't find an e-mail address for the other Paradon. Perhaps someone in the USA could telephone Mr Wetherall?

Filigree
11-20-2011, 08:46 PM
I'll look into it.

IceCreamEmpress
11-20-2011, 10:58 PM
In the UK, making yourself appear to be another company is called "passing off" and is illegal.

It's not legal in any jurisdiction in the US, either, as far as I know (and potentially a violation of some federal trade regulations if a given state doesn't have any laws about it).

Unimportant
11-20-2011, 11:12 PM
Charles Wetherall is the owner/president (http://www.linkedin.com/in/charleswetherall) of Paradon Publishing. His blog is here (http://runawaytrader.com/) and may be the easiest way of contacting him. Judging by his blog, he's completely literate. In fact, his writing is quite compelling. That in itself tells us he has nothing at all to do with ParaDon Books Publishing.

Adding: Yup, his blog includes his email contact details (http://runawaytrader.com/ContactUs.htm). Filigree, do you want to do the honours?

jennontheisland
11-20-2011, 11:13 PM
Considering they're using a different full name and have capitalized one of the internal letters in the first word, and they've not claimed to be the other, it doesn't seem that's an issue legally. The other publisher would probably be cheesed, and could threaten them, but it doesn't look like they're doing anything obviously illegal.

Unimportant
11-21-2011, 12:25 AM
Our logo is actually ‘Welcome to the future of publishing, exactly where you can actually judge a book by its cover,’ because we all know that a picture can tell a thousand words. I am looking for the purpose of manuscripts with good characterization plus a fresh voice; the kind of stories that may become the future’s classics.
Definitely ESL.

Gillhoughly
11-21-2011, 01:03 AM
The person behind ParaDon in Great Falls, Montana is Celina Marka. Her picture is on the website's submissions page (http://www.paradonbooks.com/Services.html), along with the still uncorrected grammar.

Please check previous posts in the thread. This is from #5 by Momento Mori.[/URL]


ParaDon Books Website:
[URL="http://fiverr.com/cmarka"]cmarka (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=10268): I will review your short story for a possible publication with ParaDon Books for $5
Celina Marka; Acquisition Editor

​ "Here's a quick tip for all you writers out there; make sure your story have a good structure, intriguing plot, interesting dialogues, smooth pace, and one unforgettable character. I look forward to reading your submissions."

I'm considering that she meant to call it "ParaGon," but got the spelling wrong or found this on Google http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragon_Publishing

A paradon is a bowed string instrument;

Also a Canadian computer store: http://www.paradon.com/ ;

Also the accusative singular of parado in Esperanto (according to Wiki).

parado: Adjective parado m (feminine parada (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/parada#Spanish), masculine plural parados (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/parados#Spanish), feminine plural paradas (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paradas#Spanish))


stopped (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/stopped), halted (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/halted), immobile (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/immobile)
standing (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/standing)
unemployed (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/unemployed)
(slang (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#slang), Mexico) erected (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/erected) (a penis, when using masculine nouns, preceded by verb tener (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tener#Spanish) or traer (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/traer#Spanish))

Ese (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ese#Spanish) lo trae (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/trae) parado = That guy has an erection.




No comment on the last one.


It is reasonable to conclude that she is unconnected with any business of a similar/same name in the UK. If any of this makes it to Preditors and Editors, then the listing should include a notation to that effect.

The vibe I get is she is clueless, unpublished, unqualified amateur hoping to score some cash and get an egoboo by telling strangers she's a publisher. The education credentials and claims to having a staff of editors and artists are doubtful, being on a level with the exaggerations one might see on dating sites.

I can truthfully state I went to MIT. Which I did.

I passed through the campus looking for a coffee shop.

FOTSGreg
11-21-2011, 01:25 AM
Oh, oh, Gil! I toured the Custer Museum at Ft. Riley, got (amazingly) drunk with some old friends from the actual base there, and also toured the 45th Infantry Division Museum in Oklahoma City. Doesn't that mean I'm a Veteran? I've used the Doe Library at UC-Berkeley. I must be an alumni.

Hey, since the Custer Museum is named after George Armstrong Custer, and I've been there, I could claim to be a member of the 7th Cavalry, right?

LindaJeanne
11-21-2011, 01:46 AM
It is reasonable to conclude that she is unconnected with any business of a similar/same name in the UK. If any of this makes it to Preditors and Editors, then the listing should include a notation to that effect.
The other company with a similar name but no connection is in Minnesota, not UK. (edit: at least the one we found out about. For all I know, there may be a UK one as well.)

IceCreamEmpress
11-21-2011, 02:14 AM
Considering they're using a different full name and have capitalized one of the internal letters in the first word, and they've not claimed to be the other, it doesn't seem that's an issue legally.

I think it would depend on how much of a fuss Paradon Publishing wanted to make. It's not like you can start a soda company and call it PepSi Drinks and hope to avoid static from Pepsi. "ParaDon Books Publishing" is pretty close to "Paradon Publishing," after all.

In any case, I agree 100% that it's important for all of us to make the distinction clear for as long as ParaDon is around. Which I don't imagine will be long.

areteus
11-21-2011, 02:33 AM
I can truthfully state I went to MIT. Which I did.

I passed through the campus looking for a coffee shop.

Oh, wait, that's our benchmark? Ok, in that case I've also been to the universities of:

Oxford, Cambridge, Newcastle, Birmingham (medical school no less), Manchester (all 3 of them), Warwick, Coventry, Edinburgh, Glasgow and a few others :)

Actually, I've been to concerts or theatre productions at all of these, worked at a couple of them and had a formal dinner with the Chancellor and his wife at one of them... But I am now so claiming them as universities I have attended now :)

jennontheisland
11-21-2011, 02:34 AM
Oh, wait, that's our benchmark? Ok, in that case I've also been to the universities of:

Oxford, Cambridge, Newcastle, Birmingham (medical school no less), Manchester (all 3 of them), Warwick, Coventry, Edinburgh, Glasgow and a few others :)

Actually, I've been to concerts or theatre productions at all of these, worked at a couple of them and had a formal dinner with the Chancellor and his wife at one of them... But I am now so claiming them as universities I have attended now :)
Attended?? You had dinner with a Chancellor. You just earned yourself tenure.

Unimportant
11-21-2011, 06:47 AM
The person behind ParaDon in Great Falls, Montana is Celina Marka. Her picture is on the website's submissions page (http://www.paradonbooks.com/Services.html), along with the still uncorrected grammar.
I saw the name and picture on the website, but I reckoned it may mean nothing more than a random picture and a random name. Celina Marka may be no more real than Egland the media mogul. A google search for Celina Marka doesn't throw up anything.