Sale of dog went south. New 'owner' crazy. What are my options?

Fenika · Nov 16, 2011

Short version:

I placed an ad for my dog as a giveaway. The first lady sounded like a good home and she'd had a Livestock Guard dog before, but being hesitant I said I would want a trial period, etc, before she could outright have the dog.

I drew up a basic contract for a Trial Period AND Sale. Not to get heavy in the legal aspect, the bottom line is she was required to 1) have a trial period with my dog. 2) Have 2 of the 3 references I had previously spoken to/emailed contact me about the condition of my dog at/near the end of the trial period. 3) pay a buck for my dog.

She has not done #2 or 3. I phoned her after the trial period and politely asked for those references so I could send her the paperwork and my dog's papers and seal the deal. She said she'd have those people get back to me.

A month passes, while I foolishly wait. I get an angry email today about how my dog is a chicken killer and it's all my fault, I lied, blowing smoke, whatever. I don't want an unstable person who is out of touch with reality to own my dog.

She's in breech of contract and refuses to tell me how my dog is, only that 'she loves her and is keeping her' and her emails only get ruder, so I've stopped replying.

I made a brief call to the Sheriff's office. The lady that answered was nice but thought I would have to go through a lawyer, yet wasn't sure.

I would prefer to claim my dog, who I have papers for and crazy lady does not have any legal documentation of ownership for, asap. Well, really I would prefer the lady wasn't crazy, stopped my dog's instincts with good training, and everyone was happy, but too late.

What are my options and who should I be contacting in the state of PA? Can I try the sheriff's office again and request reporting my dog as stolen?? Would I need to go to small claims after sending this lady a letter?? Option C??! I really do not want to go through a lawyer, or take the time to drag the issue through the courts while this lady has my dog.

I'm still coming off of being pissed as hell. I did not need this.

backslashbaby · Nov 16, 2011

Damn. I'd file in small claims court, I think. It's quick and it sounds pretty straightforward that she broke the contract, eh?

Better check on that with some lawyer, though. I don't know if the remedy could be monetary instead of the actual 'property', and the whole point of your suit would be about the actual doggie.

Maybe the Humane Society could give advice, too. They must enforce their contracts somehow.

Good luck!

Fenika · Nov 16, 2011

Thanks. As I was thinking about this, I was wondering if there was a pet/livestock specific small claims court in the area. I also need to figure out if I should use my local court or her local court, should I need to go to court. Guess that's where basic lawyer advice would help (or a helpful court receptionist).

Any other advice (or very knowledgeable experience!) is greatly appreciated.

*sigh* I hope my dog isn't locked up or worse.

slcboston · Nov 16, 2011

.... I have no advice, but I just want to say...

Are you just finding ALL the crazy people lately, or does it merely seem that way?

:crazy:

Snowstorm · Nov 16, 2011

That's too bad, Fenika. I agree with backslashbaby and I would file a claim in small claims court. I don't know if there's a lawyer who would provide some guidance for you for low cost or no cost.

Good luck.

Fenika · Nov 16, 2011

><

I tried to 'vet' this person to make sure she wasn't crazy. The oddest thing she did was complain that she's jumping through a lot of hoops before ever seeing my dog.

Bos, you wanna screen all my future relationships of any sort, passing or otherwise??? Please?

Fenika · Nov 16, 2011

Thanks, Snow. And Backslash too.

Elaine Margarett · Nov 16, 2011

Did she actually sign an agreement? I believe where ever the contract was originated would be the area where you'd file.

Good luck. At least it sounds like she wants/loves the dog.

Fenika · Nov 16, 2011

Yes, I have her signature on the 1 page agreement, along with her address and phone (Sadly, I've learned the hard way about Contracts 101. Not that I'm an expert.)

And origination of contract area sounds like a good start. That would be my town.

rugcat · Nov 16, 2011

If it were possible, I'd steal the dog back, and let the woman file a claim to get it back. I doubt she'd win.

In a civil case, if you take the dog it's not theft unless the courts rule the dog is legally her property -- sort of like a car repo agent.

Of course, depending on circumstance, you could be charged with trespass.

thothguard51 · Nov 16, 2011

The local police or even the SPCA are not going to get involved because its a civil matter and not a criminal matter.

Best I can suggest is show up on her door step with a sheriff deputy, have your paperwork in hand and ask for the dog back. She obviously is not going to bring the dog to you...

As to the craziness, unsure if breach of contract means she is crazy.

My mom and dad used to raise show dogs and every buyer, even on the free give aways was checked out 10 ways to sundown, and we still had some nuts who did not follow the rules. In those cases, I think my parents just gave up so long as the animal was not being mistreated...

My mom refused to sell a Lhasa Apso to Liz Taylor because she felt Ms Taylor just wanted the IT dog of the moment. She also did not like the fact Ms Taylor had a booze problem at the time, (Married to Senator Warner and living about 20 miles from us at the time.)

Yal, but its Liz Taylor, mom...

Fenika · Nov 16, 2011

Thoth- what's the difference between getting the cops involved and showing up with the Sheriff Deputy? Would the deputy likely agree to go with me? And when she refuses, then I go to court??

The craziness is not due to the breach of contract, but the absurd and accusatory emails I am getting. Not going into details, but she's making wild, unfactual claims about how I presented my dog to her and what my dog was like in my care. Basically throwing a lot of anger at me, and I'm afraid some of that anger is going to my dog.

*sigh*

TheIT · Nov 16, 2011

Would there be anyone at a local veterinarian who might have contacts or suggestions? Humane society? ASPCA? Animal control?

I keep thinking about those Animal Cops programs on cable and hoping that the dog is all right. Good luck...

bettielee · Nov 16, 2011

Fenika said:
Yes, I have her signature on the 1 page agreement, along with her address and phone (Sadly, I've learned the hard way about Contracts 101. Not that I'm an expert.)

And origination of contract area sounds like a good start. That would be my town.

Fen, have you brought up how she bitched about having to go thru hoops BECUZ you wanted to make sure she knew what she was doing? Why isn't she giving you the dog back?

Crazy lady is crazy.

I'm sorry. I hope this works out for puppeh... :*(

Fenika · Nov 16, 2011

I dunno if the SPCA folks know much about 'custody battles'.

Bettie, I failed to mention the hoops thing because I chose not to argue with her any longer. She's all anger, no rationality, professionalism, or sense (or having any concept of legal contract. Dog is hers because she said so.)

*sigh* I hope my pup isn't stressin and is currently lying flat out and being happily ignored.

Silver King · Nov 16, 2011

Fenika said:
...Can I try the sheriff's office again and request reporting my dog as stolen??

Your dog wasn't stolen, though. You gave it to the woman. Claiming otherwise would be akin to filing a false report of theft. Even though she hasn't met the contractual obligations of the deal, the dog belongs to her now, unless a judge decides otherwise. You'll have to sue her to find out if ownership can be reverted back to you.

Only you can decide if that's worth the trouble and monetary cost. But unless the dog is being mistreated somehow, you might want to relinquish your idea of ownership without a fight. Just because the woman appears unstable doesn't mean that she's abusing the dog in any way and could very well be providing a wonderful, loving home for him.

Fenika · Nov 16, 2011

My friend made a lot of similar points as you, Fruitbat, and I partially agree having thought on it.

Not knowing, and having her refuse to tell me, how my dog is doing is the worse part. She seems more determined to make me the villain, and if my dog keeps killing her pet chickens, is she going to convince herself my dog is the villain? I don't know.

Fwiw, I did request references that had a professional aspect. I was far more willing to trust them previously. I have 0 trust now for this lady and hers as of today.

Crazy might not have been the right word, but to suddenly get attacked and informed things aren't peachy with my dog all in one is just mind blowing to me. What the hell? And just tell me how my dog is dang it.

I have steered clear of rescues when I saw what hoops they wanted me to jump through. This lady had never seen my dog and could have easily walked away if she didn't want to deal with my hoops. She had 100% no attachment to my pup until the day she was delivered.

Now I'm rambling

slcboston · Nov 16, 2011

Fenika said:
Bos, you wanna screen all my future relationships of any sort, passing or otherwise??? Please?

You *really* don't want me doing that, do you?

slcboston · Nov 16, 2011

Fruitbat said:
I have to admit I was annoyed when I got pets at the pound. I had to provide proof of this and that and the other thing, when what I remember about pets is they used to be glad you'd take them, or else you'd buy them. Personal intrusion was not part of the deal (And in my case, if nobody had taken those animals, the ones making me jump through hoops would have had no problem killing them. Not comparing you to that, just saying...).

Couple of points here, without trying to derail things.

1. Those "hoops" you are complaining about are in place to keep people from doing things like just casually buying a pet, either for themselves or, worse yet, to give as a gift at Christmas or something, when they are unprepared for the realities of pet ownership. Those hoops are there to make sure you're not just going "awww, how cute" and picking out a puppy or a kitten that, once it grows up you're no longer going to want, thus keeping it from being returned to them. Or from doing the same with a full grown animal that turns out to be more than you might think it was.

I was more than willing to go through those hoops to get my cat, because it says to me they are doing their best to make sure the animals finds good homes.

2. Most shelters, most reputable ones, no longer have a euthanasia policy. Unless there is something wrong with the animal, all animals are kept at a modern shelter until they are adopted out. So this idea that the animals are going to be put to sleep because they make people jump through hoops - such as filling out a basic questionnaire aimed at evaluating their fitness to own animals - is off base.

So maybe you ought to be willing to put up with a little "personal intrusion," as you put it, if it means in the long run it's better for the animals.

Fruitbat · Nov 16, 2011

Please read before you argue. I clearly stated that I understand the rationale for the rules, it is obvious. Also, not sure where you're getting your information that most shelters have a "no euthanasia" policy in place.

Silver King · Nov 16, 2011

Let's try to stay on topic here, please, and not argue among ourselves.

Thanks.

Elaine Margarett · Nov 17, 2011

FWIW, I'd let things calm down a little, then send a polite, non-confrontational email stating that if she decides the dog isn't working out you'll come and collect it, no questions asked, and no recriminations.

Make it as easy on the new owner to return the dog, if that's what she wants. I'd even offer up an apology to smooth things over. Afterall, it's the dog you're concerned about, not your ego.

Good luck.

Fenika · Nov 17, 2011

Thanks folks. I'm still leaning toward claiming the dog since I don't know how she's doing. This whole thing is sending off warning bells in my head, despite the logic that she could return her. I could have returned my dog to the breeder but placed her instead... Oi.

Anna L. · Nov 17, 2011

Fruitbat said:
I would honor a deal that I had made, but I have to admit I was annoyed when I got pets at the pound. I had to provide proof of this and that and the other thing, when what I remember about pets is they used to be glad you'd take them, or else you'd buy them. Personal intrusion was not part of the deal (And in my case, if nobody had taken those animals, the ones making me jump through hoops would have had no problem killing them. Not comparing you to that, just saying...).

Round here there was a man who kept buying small pets or trying to adopt them from places like the pound and the pets kept disappearing... When word got around all the breeders started watching for him. Nobody has any proof he did anything and I've not heard of it again, but yeah. Crazy people exist and death might be better than ending up in such hands.

Pet shops don't do extensive checks because they frankly don't care. They'll sell pets to anyone and too bad if the pet ends up dead.

Fruitbat · Nov 17, 2011

Fenika, good luck with it. You've gotten some good advice but if you've got that nagging gut feeling that it's just all wrong then if it was me, I'd go with that. :Hug2:

Sale of dog went south. New 'owner' crazy. What are my options?

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