Need advice on gun injury

A rifle is a high velocity gun so the round would go through the body. A small chunk of flesh would be removed the back of the shoulder. A small amount of blood would be present. The round will probably go through bone, so no misdirection. If shot in the left shoulder, he's in danger of hitting the heart and arteries that might make him bleed out. The man will be able to crawl as well as walk if he's not afraid of pain. Woman would crawl. They all will cry. Think of talking as if he was crying like a baby.

Rifle depends on where the soldier is from.

AK47 would be the most popular but not used my most military. M16 would be military issue by the US. I'm not too good with other world military, but that's just a quick search.

But I have to stress that if he's carrying a rifle without being a warzone, it odd enough that he's shooting with the rifle. The military only uses automatic rifles when in battle. But for operations, it could be SMGs, shotguns. Most service men rely on their pistols and hand to hand more then a rifle.


If I can get more details, I can tune you on in the scene.

Small edit: A thought and through hit, like with a high velocity round: The person at first wouldn't feel pain, the body cannot react fast enough for a couple seconds. The small wound and if the round doesn't hit any organs, the person will be able to talk but like "I-... I let him go" after a couple minutes of rest.

Well a small amount of blood at first, but they can bleed out if not wrapped. Think of about a small dot on the front and a circle about a foot in diameter on the back.

You will get more focussed answers from those familiar with the specific topic by posting in the Story Research Forum.

Kado said:

I have a scene where a character is shot in the shoulder.

He is shot by a soldier. I'm not sure what kind of rifle a soldier carries or if that is going to affect question 1.

1. Would the bullet likely be lodged in the shoulder or would it go straight through?

2. Would the guy be able to speak through the pain?*

3. Would he be able to crawl on his hands and knees (he might need to do that and if not, than I'll have to re-jig things)

4. Would he be able to walk? Well, I guess with this one I'm wondering how much the injury would slow him down.

5. Would he be bleeding profusely?


*I showed this scene to my father-in-law and he said the guy would not be able to say the line of dialogue, "I let him go" because he'd be in too much pain.

What do people think?

Sorry for the dumb questions; I really have no idea.

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Kado said:

Ah, thanks for that. Did not know about that one.

Edit: Erm...where exactly is the story research forum? It's not that I haven't looked - I used the drop down forum jump menu as well as doing laps of AW - and I'm afraid I can't find it.

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It's called Story Research: Experts and Interviewees Wanted under the discussion section.

Go here, Kado. http://absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=66

That should get you to where you want to be.

I would find a nurse or a doctor who could answer these questions for you. Don't guess because a reader who actually knows this information will roll their eyes if you get any of the details wrong.

I don't know all the answers, but I'm glad you asked because one of my pet storytelling peeves is when a character gets shot in the arm or shoulder and continues to sprint around, leap across rooftops, do cartwheels and handstands with little more reaction than an occasional handsome wince.

When I was 15 a very good friend of mine was accidentally shot in the arm with a 12 gauge: it was birdshot (lots of big bbs) at pretty close range while pheasant hunting. He damn near died from shock right there, was in intensive care for weeks and weeks, had to undergo multiple reconstructive surgeries and years of physical therapy, and to this day is partially disabled and disfigured from the wound.

He sure wasn't leaping across rooftops, shooting back, or kissing heroines.

Kado said:

Ah. This is good - information I mean - not good that it happened to your friend. Shock. Of course. I didn't think of that either. I don't know what a 12 gauge is. A shot from an AK would be worse I gather?

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I honestly don't know what's worse. I think the range and the site of the gunshot wound are as important in the "how bad" equation as the type of weapon. A twelve-gauge is a sporting shotgun.

Kado said:

I have a scene where a character is shot in the shoulder.

He is shot by a soldier. I'm not sure what kind of rifle a soldier carries or if that is going to affect question 1.

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Yes, it very much affects the answers. A rifle from the 1800's will be different from WWI, or Vietman War era vs now.

What is the setting?

Kado said:

1. Would the bullet likely be lodged in the shoulder or would it go straight through?

2. Would the guy be able to speak through the pain?*

3. Would he be able to crawl on his hands and knees (he might need to do that and if not, than I'll have to re-jig things)

4. Would he be able to walk? Well, I guess with this one I'm wondering how much the injury would slow him down.

5. Would he be bleeding profusely?


*I showed this scene to my father-in-law and he said the guy would not be able to say the line of dialogue, "I let him go" because he'd be in too much pain.

What do people think?

Sorry for the dumb questions; I really have no idea.

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There's not enough information to say anything other than generalities. Some people could get their arm blown off and they'd get up and fight one armed and lead their troops to victory. Most would lay there in the dirt dying of blood loss and passing out from the pain. Almost anything is possible, however there are things that are impossible like if the bullet goes through, that does not mean that there's no damage.

It's worth bearing in mind that, in TV and movies, characters are often shot in the shoulder because it's relatively easy to do a nasty-looking injury there while still leaving your character with a plausibly mostly working body.

If you want the injury to not slow him down too much (and to not do permanent serious damage) you'd be much better off putting the bullet through his arm. Though even then, like Devil said, it could be a really serious injury with permanent consequences.

My personal feeling (and I've never been shot) is that he'd stop being able to walk or crawl long before he'd get to the point of being unable to choke out four words.

skylark said:

It's worth bearing in mind that, in TV and movies, characters are often shot in the shoulder because of the myth that it's relatively easy to do a nasty-looking injury there while still leaving your character with a plausibly mostly working body.

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fixed it for you

skylark said:

If you want the injury to not slow him down too much (and to not do permanent serious damage) you'd be much better off putting the bullet through his arm. Though even then, like Devil said, it could be a really serious injury with permanent consequences.

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correct

Kado said:

Thanks for responding GeorgeK.

It's modern warfare - as in this day and age.

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Then I'm assuming the weapon was one of the various military, "assault rifles." That means that it's high velocity which means the shock wave damage will be greater than the initial visible damage.

The next question is the type of ammunition. Jacketted rounds are more likely to cause through and throughs. Hollow points are more likely to shatter inside someone. The simple thing is to decide what the wound is, don't mention the ammo and those who know will assume the right ammo and those who don't won't care that that detail was omitted.

Kado said:

The guy who gets shot is a commander in the army (so I don't know if that fact ought to make his pain threshold higher). The shot is unexpected; he is alone and unprepared for it. They are not engaged in battle. The soldier flips his lid over an issue too complex to go into (bear with me, there is a theme of madness here).

Is that info helpful?

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No, none of those things are really relevant to the injury. Being an officer does not require a higgher pain threshold. The being shot unexpectantly only really affects the shooter in having a better shot, so don't make the shooter a trained sniper, because he effectively missed.

Kado said:

Thanks Skylark. I never thought about the arm. And yes, I have to have my character still being able to function so that's why I thought the shoulder. Maybe the arm would be better?

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Destroy a joint, particularly a major one and you've killed that person's career. A high velocity round through the shoulder joint will almost certainly end a soldier's career and result in death, amputation or a very long and painful physical therapy course of treatment..

Edit: Never mind, I just saw your thread got moved here.

Kado said:

OK, second attempt after I put it in the wrong section.


I have a scene where a character is shot in the shoulder.

He is shot by a soldier. I'm not sure what kind of rifle a soldier carries or if that is going to affect question 1.

1. Would the bullet likely be lodged in the shoulder or would it go straight through?

2. Would the guy be able to speak through the pain?*

3. Would he be able to crawl on his hands and knees (he might need to do that and if not, than I'll have to re-jig things)

4. Would he be able to walk? Well, I guess with this one I'm wondering how much the injury would slow him down.

5. Would he be bleeding profusely?


*I showed this scene to my father-in-law and he said the guy would not be able to say the line of dialogue, "I let him go" because he'd be in too much pain.

What do people think?

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Abandon all hope, ye who enter.

Also this and this.

I'm going to disagree with the majority here - there are records of people who have been hit multiple times in combat (yes, even with modern weapons), who have continued to fight effectively, carry people off the field of battle, continued to lead troops, continued to run directly at the enemy, etc.

Adreneline is a powerful drug.

Now, have others been nicked by a bullet and completely collapsed into a puddle over the pain of a flesh wound? Absolutely.

I agree that getting hit in the actual joint is a devestating wound. However, there is quite a bit of muscle tissue in the shoulder where a high-velocity bullet could pass through and not necessarly be a killing blow.

In fact, some believe it's more dangerous to get hit by a heavier bullet moving slower than a smaller bullet moving at a high rater of speed. (One reason many people objected to the military moving from the .45 to the 9mm. They feel the 9mm doesn't have the stopping power and requires you to shoot the individual more times to get the same effect.)

Until someone is in that situation, it's impossible to know how they're going to react and how the wound will affect them. Although, a bullet to the heart or the brain is pretty standard, no matter how much adreneline (or PCP) you have going through you. *grin*

Note: Also, it's possible for a shooter to be a trained sniper and still miss (Sorry, George). That was the big climatic scene in the Day of the Jackal. The Jackal shoots at De Gaulle but misses because De Gaulle moves his head at the last second to kiss a medal recipient on the cheek. He gets killed before he can take another shot at De Gaulle.

Kado said:

I have a scene where a character is shot in the shoulder.

He is shot by a soldier. I'm not sure what kind of rifle a soldier carries or if that is going to affect question 1.

1. Would the bullet likely be lodged in the shoulder or would it go straight through?

2. Would the guy be able to speak through the pain?*

3. Would he be able to crawl on his hands and knees (he might need to do that and if not, than I'll have to re-jig things)

4. Would he be able to walk? Well, I guess with this one I'm wondering how much the injury would slow him down.

5. Would he be bleeding profusely?


*I showed this scene to my father-in-law and he said the guy would not be able to say the line of dialogue, "I let him go" because he'd be in too much pain.

What do people think?

Sorry for the dumb questions; I really have no idea.

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Some US soldiers carry M16s but most carry M4s. The only difference between them is that the M4 is a little bit shorter making it easier to maneuver and easier to hold for short people, but harder to aim for tall people. Example, I'm 6'2" and I can consistently shoot 32-34/40 with an M16 but with an M4 I can only shoot maybe 27-30. At the same time, there's this short soldier in our unit that can't even hold an M16 properly because they can't reach the grip.

The bullet would shatter in the shoulder breaking the bones and joint. Pieces of the bullet would get lodged in the shoulder.

Speak through the pain? Oh hell yes they could! In fact I can pretty much predict what they'd say: "AAGGGHH! Fuck! That's hurts!" Sorry for the language but I guarantee you won't be too concerned about being polite after getting shot. Swearing does occur.

Assuming he doesn't go into shock he'll be able to walk normally. I wouldn't recommend it but its definitely possible. As far as crawling goes, consider the one shoulder completely out of commission. That arm is getting used again for anything for a very long time. Other than that, you're fine.

Bleeding could go either way. There are some major arteries up in the shoulder there. If one gets hit, then yes. At that point, he's also not walking anywhere because he's going to lose blood, go into shock, and die. Unfortunately there's no type of tourniquet that will work that high up on the arm. If he happens to have to quick-clot then that might work, though. If the artery doesn't get hit, then you're golden.

This information all comes from military training. If you need to know what its like to go into shock, I've experienced it a few times.

Quick note: Being shot doesn't kill you. Gunshots are rarely deadly. Its the lack of proper treatment afterwards that kills you. Any soldier (myself included) knows that.

Richard White said:

I'm going to disagree with the majority here - there are records of people who have been hit multiple times in combat (yes, even with modern weapons), who have continued to fight effectively, carry people off the field of battle, continued to lead troops, continued to run directly at the enemy, etc.

Adreneline is a powerful drug.

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And how exactly is that disagreeing with

GeorgeK said:

Some people could get their arm blown off and they'd get up and fight one armed and lead their troops to victory. Most would lay there in the dirt dying of blood loss and passing out from the pain. Almost anything is possible,.

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Richard White said:

Now, have others been nicked by a bullet and completely collapsed into a puddle over the pain of a flesh wound? Absolutely.

I agree that getting hit in the actual joint is a devestating wound. However, there is quite a bit of muscle tissue in the shoulder where a high-velocity bullet could pass through and not necessarly be a killing blow.

In fact, some believe it's more dangerous to get hit by a heavier bullet moving slower than a smaller bullet moving at a high rater of speed. (One reason many people objected to the military moving from the .45 to the 9mm. They feel the 9mm doesn't have the stopping power and requires you to shoot the individual more times to get the same effect.)

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Read anything by board certified surgeons and the consensus is getting hit by a high velocity round is worse than low velocity. In fact that is almost always the first criterion in evaluating the mechanism of injury (not to be confused with triage or basic lifesaving.) On top of that you have various types of ammo, teflon coated, jacketted, non-jacketted, hollowpoint, incindiary rounds etc.

Richard White said:

Note: Also, it's possible for a shooter to be a trained sniper and still miss (Sorry, George). That was the big climatic scene in the Day of the Jackal. The Jackal shoots at De Gaulle but misses because De Gaulle moves his head at the last second to kiss a medal recipient on the cheek. He gets killed before he can take another shot at De Gaulle.

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Sorry Richard if you somehow thought that I meant that all snipers everywhere are always infallible with every single shot, but that said, today's training and the better quality of weapons as compared to WW2, I'd put my money on a sniper.