PDA

View Full Version : Justice League: Isn't Everyone but Superman Obsolete?



nibris
11-15-2011, 04:57 AM
Someone mentioned to me the other day that Justice League: Mortal is supposed to be coming out in like 2014. Why not just make it another Superman movie? When you've got people who are teamed with someone who, for all intents and purposes, is immortal and has all the powers necessary to do anything and everything, it makes you wonder how useful they'd really be in that team.

DeleyanLee
11-15-2011, 05:05 AM
But every supervillian has a private stock of Kryptonite, so it is necessary to have Plan B. ;)

MttStrn
11-15-2011, 09:12 AM
Superman is vulnerable to magic and attacks of conscience.
He just needs Zatanna and Batman ( or maybe Green Arrow) and he's set.

Celia Cyanide
11-15-2011, 10:55 AM
If you read the comics, you can understand why he needs everyone else.

areteus
11-15-2011, 01:32 PM
There was an online comic about this very topic not long ago. I may try to find it...

Diana Hignutt
11-15-2011, 03:23 PM
Technically, Green Lantern is the most powerful member of the Justice League...

Flash is faster than Supes...

Batman is smarter than Supes...

Wonder Woman is bolder than Supes...

Aquaman is...um...

JimmyB27
11-15-2011, 03:44 PM
Aquaman is...um...
Wetter than Supes?

Manuel Royal
11-15-2011, 04:25 PM
Aquaman is...um...Some day you're gonna need to make a lot of different species of fish work together for a common cause. Can a Kryptonian do that?

BigWords
11-15-2011, 05:19 PM
Aquaman can tell Cthulhu what to do. Lets see Supes try that.

Hopefully the film will be closer to the Detroit-era JLA than the "Super Friends in their satellite" stuff.

Diana Hignutt
11-15-2011, 06:01 PM
Some day you're gonna need to make a lot of different species of fish work together for a common cause. Can a Kryptonian do that?

I bet he can't make and throw balls of water under water, either...

Vince524
11-15-2011, 06:08 PM
Superman can't wear orange.

Kaiser-Kun
11-15-2011, 06:23 PM
It worked perfectly in the animated Justice League series. I think the OP is thinking the dumbass plots of Superfriends.

BigWords
11-15-2011, 06:45 PM
This is the reason (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE8C1WWixgc) Aquaman needs to be in the film.

I'm sure I don't have to explain why Zatanna needs to be in it... :D

Manuel Royal
11-15-2011, 06:50 PM
A bit off-topic, but I'd love to see a JSA movie (Justice Society of America; came before the JLA). Although the heavy-hitters (Superman and Batman) were honorary members, the JSA mostly featured lesser-known Golden Age heroes who didn't have their own titles.

They dealt with this a little on the Smallville tv show. It was great seeing Hawkman, Doctor Fate and (briefly) Sandman onscreen. Wouldn't you like to see them, along with Starman, Hourman, Mr. Terrific, Doctor Mid-Nite, battling crooks and Nazis in the 1940s?

Shadow Dragon
11-15-2011, 07:47 PM
Actually, in the comics, Wonder Woman beat Superman in a one on one fight and is generally more ruthless than him (including a willingness to kill). If I was a villain, I'd be more worried about her.

Diana Hignutt
11-15-2011, 08:22 PM
Actually, in the comics, Wonder Woman beat Superman in a one on one fight and is generally more ruthless than him (including a willingness to kill). If I was a villain, I'd be more worried about her.

That's what I was going for with "bolder"...ruthless didn't seem right...maybe "fiercer"...

Oh. And for Pete's sake, Shadow Dragon you're not a new kid anymore, you've got almost 2,000 posts...come up with a catchy title already...

Kaiser-Kun
11-15-2011, 09:49 PM
Actually, in the comics, Wonder Woman beat Superman in a one on one fight and is generally more ruthless than him (including a willingness to kill). If I was a villain, I'd be more worried about her.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/83917/1786985-insp_donkeysupermanwonderwoman.jpg

dgiharris
11-15-2011, 10:08 PM
Actually, in the comics, Wonder Woman beat Superman in a one on one fight and is generally more ruthless than him (including a willingness to kill). If I was a villain, I'd be more worried about her.

It couldn't have been a straight up fight.

Mel...

Shadow Dragon
11-15-2011, 10:25 PM
It couldn't have been a straight up fight.

Mel...
The basic backstory for it was that Superman was being controlled by some villain (it's been a while since I read that comic so I can't remember his name). He made Superman believe that Wonder Woman was Doomsday, one of the most powerful DCU villains. The two had the typical over the top super fight, which ended when Wonder Woman used the sonic emitter things in her wristbands right next to Superman's ears. With his super hearing, the sound was enough to knock him out.

As a post script to that fight, when she found out there was no way to break the psychic link between the villain and Superman, she snapped the villain's neck.

DeleyanLee
11-15-2011, 10:54 PM
Reading the new line of comics, it seems like it's Batman who doesn't really need anyone else. And there was the time that Bats beat the entire Legion of Superheros (who has 1 1/2 "Supermen" as members, which we don't agree with, but that's the way DC decided to play it) and figured out how to beat the whole League, even if he didn't have to do it.

And Aquaman is back to being hawt and doing more than just talking to fish in the new series. It's well worth picking up again. Finally.

Steve Coate
11-16-2011, 07:08 AM
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/83917/1786985-insp_donkeysupermanwonderwoman.jpg

They've both won battles against one another in the past.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j395/SteveCoate/wwsm.jpg

Steve Coate
11-16-2011, 07:12 AM
Reading the new line of comics, it seems like it's Batman who doesn't really need anyone else. And there was the time that Bats beat the entire Legion of Superheros (who has 1 1/2 "Supermen" as members, which we don't agree with, but that's the way DC decided to play it) and figured out how to beat the whole League, even if he didn't have to do it.

And Aquaman is back to being hawt and doing more than just talking to fish in the new series. It's well worth picking up again. Finally.

She's kicked Bats's butt too.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j395/SteveCoate/hiketeia.jpg

thebloodfiend
11-16-2011, 08:06 AM
Wonder Woman is awesome. And, technically, Superman isn't immortal. He's invulnerable. Wolverine is immortal, but only because of his infinite regeneration, which Superman doesn't have. And Wolverine isn't invulnerable. Wonder Woman is immortal, but she isn't invulnerable.

Jcomp
11-16-2011, 08:18 AM
Superman's need of his teammates is somewhat contrived due mostly to enforced mental limitations. The best explanation for this I've come across is his World of Cardboard speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_5UwS57X8). Basically, he never allows himself to completely cut loose because if he did, he'd probably lose his mind and... I dunno... fly so fast around the Earth he somehow reverses its revolution, resulting in catastrophic global damage and likely destroying all life as we know it. This would be followed by a psychotic break where he hallucinates that this act of insane omnicide didn't really bring about the end of the world, but somehow "reversed time" so he could be reunited with the girl he has a crush on, and whose life he failed to save earlier. Something like that...

Oh, and he's also not the best strategist, he's not at all ruthless, etc.

But really, I'm with the OP. For the most part, Superman should be able to take care of any situation that arises that doesn't have kryptonite or magic attached. Reminds me of a fun debate with a friend where I stated that all the X-Men need are Storm, Professor X and maybe Wolverine for covert assassination ops. Maybe. The rest of the team? Entirely superfluous.

Lovely Decadence
11-16-2011, 10:46 AM
Superman's need of his teammates is somewhat contrived due mostly to enforced mental limitations. The best explanation for this I've come across is his World of Cardboard speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_5UwS57X8). Basically, he never allows himself to completely cut loose because if he did, he'd probably lose his mind and... I dunno... fly so fast around the Earth he somehow reverses its revolution, resulting in catastrophic global damage and likely destroying all life as we know it. This would be followed by a psychotic break where he hallucinates that this act of insane omnicide didn't really bring about the end of the world, but somehow "reversed time" so he could be reunited with the girl he has a crush on, and whose life he failed to save earlier. Something like that...

Oh, and he's also not the best strategist, he's not at all ruthless, etc.

But really, I'm with the OP. For the most part, Superman should be able to take care of any situation that arises that doesn't have kryptonite or magic attached. Reminds me of a fun debate with a friend where I stated that all the X-Men need are Storm, Professor X and maybe Wolverine for covert assassination ops. Maybe. The rest of the team? Entirely superfluous.
That may be the case, but especially when it comes to his adaptations in things like Superman the animated series and Justice League and later Justice League Unlimited, they somewhat depowered him so every fight wouldn't just be a shut out (which was kind of annoying because Superman should be able to take a punch and carry large heavy objects with ease by I digress), but even if we consider that he's been written as depowered in some mediums and acts on self imposed limitations, I'd still say he'd at least need Bats for back up. Not every supervillain can be beaten with a little ol'smashy smashy, a good strategy is needed especially for some of the top tier rogues.

Diana Hignutt
11-16-2011, 03:09 PM
Give me a green lantern ring and I could kick Supes ass...just sayin...

or..

give me two weeks, a few hundred drums of gasoline, some bullets, some innocent people to act as distractions, and I could pull any crime I wanted to in Supes's protectorate...he's a big softy...and it's a major weakness.

dragonjax
11-16-2011, 03:59 PM
Superman is a big blue Boy Scout.

Now Batman, I would never, ever want to piss off.

(And that's before "the goddamn Batman" ever surfaced.)

Wonder Woman? What's happening with her these days? Is she still running around in her B&D/barely there ensemble? Didn't they try rebooting her as an 18 year old who wore black? Just curious...

areteus
11-16-2011, 04:56 PM
They did redesign her outfit. Everyone hated it. There were hate filled blogs about it.

BigWords
11-16-2011, 06:05 PM
If they returned Superman to his original power settings - the first year or so of the comics, when he fought slumlords, and was at least partway relevant - it would make for a massive improvement. The current do-anything pack of powers makes me shrug my shoulders when I see his comics. The only time I seem to give a damn for the modern Superman is in prose stories, and that's only because I don't have to wade through page after page of costumed characters hitting each other with no resolution. :Shrug:

Shadow Dragon
11-16-2011, 09:12 PM
But really, I'm with the OP. For the most part, Superman should be able to take care of any situation that arises that doesn't have kryptonite or magic attached. Reminds me of a fun debate with a friend where I stated that all the X-Men need are Storm, Professor X and maybe Wolverine for covert assassination ops. Maybe. The rest of the team? Entirely superfluous.
I'd also take Jean Gray. Particularly when she's in her Phoenix state.

dragonjax
11-16-2011, 10:13 PM
I'd also take Jean Gray. Particularly when she's in her Phoenix state.

Just look out when she's hungry. Got any spare stars for her to absorb?

Jcomp
11-16-2011, 10:16 PM
Ah hell, I think Grey in the Phoenix state is either powerful enough to need no team. When you're capable of wiping out a solar system on a whim or standing toe-to-toe with Galactucs, you're in an entirely different category.

Celia Cyanide
11-17-2011, 10:29 AM
Superman is a big blue Boy Scout.

Now Batman, I would never, ever want to piss off.

Totally. They say Superman's weakness is Kryptonite. It's really his Boy Scout nature. Despite his having no powers, Batman is the one everyone is afraid of.

When I was a kid, I was really bothered that Superman and Batman were friends. They were too different. I always thought that if they were real, Superman would be working for the government and hunting Batman. But now I see how they compliment each other. Batman does what Superman can't do. It's ironic, considering the powers Supes has.

Diana Hignutt
11-17-2011, 03:55 PM
Totally. They say Superman's weakness is Kryptonite. It's really his Boy Scout nature. Despite his having no powers, Batman is the one everyone is afraid of.

When I was a kid, I was really bothered that Superman and Batman were friends. They were too different. I always thought that if they were real, Superman would be working for the government and hunting Batman. But now I see how they compliment each other. Batman does what Superman can't do. It's ironic, considering the powers Supes has.

Exactly. Superman, I could give a sob story and he's puddy. Batman you don't F with.

Jcomp
11-17-2011, 07:19 PM
Eh. I mean, I love Batman. Huge fan. But the guy has trouble handling the Joker and Zsasz and Two-Face. Superman battles global threats on the reg, and Batman can barely keep Gotham muggers off the street for an extended period of time. And the whole Superman "Boy Scout" thing depends on who's writing him, and it's not like Batman is that much more ruthless. He's still obsessed with the "no killing" thing. How has he not at least broken the Joker's spine by now?

I've always found it strange that Batman even exists in the DC universe, much less is a contributing member of the JLA. He seems like an exiled Marvel character.

BigWords
11-17-2011, 07:45 PM
I've always found it strange that Batman even exists in the DC universe, much less is a contributing member of the JLA.

Some of his best appearances has been in Justice League titles.

"One punch..." :roll:

Kaiser-Kun
11-17-2011, 08:36 PM
When I was a kid, I was really bothered that Superman and Batman were friends. They were too different. I always thought that if they were real, Superman would be working for the government and hunting Batman.

That's exactly what happens in The Dark Knight Returns. Batman wins.

dragonjax
11-17-2011, 09:20 PM
That's exactly what happens in The Dark Knight Returns. Batman wins.

Granted, because Supes lets him. But yeah.

MttStrn
11-17-2011, 10:10 PM
SPOILER WARNING IN CASE YOU HAVE NOT READ TDKR


Granted, because Supes lets him. But yeah.

Totally disagree. Batman beats Superman straight in the fight. After, at the funeral, Superman realizes that Bruce is still alive but lets it slide.

Jcomp
11-18-2011, 12:08 AM
Granted, because Supes lets him. But yeah.

Well, Clark doesn't quite go at him hardcore. Plus he'd just taken a point blank nuclear bomb blast and had to suck up the stored solar energy of an entire forest just to stay alive, since the nuclear winter conditions have blocked out the sun. Plus Bruce gets help from Oliver Queen in the way of a kryptonite-tipped arrow.

Diana Hignutt
11-18-2011, 12:14 AM
Well, Clark doesn't quite go at him hardcore. Plus he'd just taken a point blank nuclear bomb blast and had to suck up the stored solar energy of an entire forest just to stay alive, since the nuclear winter conditions have blocked out the sun. Plus Bruce gets help from Oliver Queen in the way of a kryptonite-tipped arrow.

timing is everything...

Jcomp
11-18-2011, 12:59 AM
timing is everything...

Supports the famous ol' argument of "Batman can beat anyone if given enough prep time."

Shadow Dragon
11-18-2011, 02:01 AM
Now that I think about it, J'onn (The Martian Manhunter) is pretty much on Superman's level also. He has super strength, flying, shape shifting, mind reading and is also damn near indestructible.

Jcomp
11-18-2011, 03:12 AM
Now that I think about it, J'onn (The Martian Manhunter) is pretty much on Superman's level also. He has super strength, flying, shape shifting, mind reading and is also damn near indestructible.

Yeah. But I'd say J'onn's weakness is pretty rough. I mean at least Supes' weakness is a (supposedly) rare mineral from outer space. J'onn's weakness if freaking fire.

"Martian Manhunter, please help! Those people are trapped in that burning building!"

"Oh jeez... um... I'd love to but uh... I've got some serious manhunting to do over here."

"....what?"

"Wait, not like that. I mean, not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just... uh..." *flies away really fast*

MttStrn
11-18-2011, 06:30 AM
Darwyn Cooke sums that up real well in DC: The New Frontier (If you haven't read it do so right now. It's awesome.)

Batman to J'onn J'onzz: "It took a seventy thousand dollar sliver of meteor to stop the one in Metropolis. With you, all I need is a penny for a book of matches."

Shadow_Ferret
11-18-2011, 06:39 AM
When I was a kid, I was really bothered that Superman and Batman were friends. They were too different. I always thought that if they were real, Superman would be working for the government and hunting Batman. But now I see how they compliment each other. Batman does what Superman can't do. It's ironic, considering the powers Supes has.

I guess that depends on when you grew up. Because when I grew up, they weren't that much different. The Silver Age Batman wasn't a vigilante, like Frank Miller's Dark Knight. He was pretty much a super-smart inventor/detective who happened to hang around in a cave. When it came to Justice League, Batman was the brains of the outfit.