Having a friend beta read for you

I have done this, and it can really go either way. One had some useful things to say, for which I was very grateful; another was brimming with praise, which is nice, but ultimately useless; a third never finished the manuscript, but has a stellar grasp of grammar and punctuation and did wonders for the technical part of what she did read.

It's never been awkward or uncomfortable. But maybe I've just been lucky that way.

My GF is my proof reader, but I have others I use for beta reads. People I trust not to blow smoke up me arse...

I have a friend betaing for me. When I got my first set of crits back, I yelled at my computer screen. "Did you even read the story?" Because he had a lot of questions that I felt had been answered in the chapters I'd sent.

So yeah, I asked him about it. Only after I'd calmed down, though. It wasn't awkward because I'd asked him for help, he provided it, and I wanted to discuss how I could make the points clearer. More importantly, I put myself into a receptive mindframe, and not a defensive one. I think that helps a lot in how you come across when asking critters for more information about a crit.

Turns out he'd only skimmed the dialogue and skipped the action scenes altogether. Because I'd asked him for help in other areas of the work and he'd tried to concentrate on those areas.

He's a good beta

I think it's more awkward when I ask friends to read my stuff and they never get back to me about it. Then I'm left to wonder if they thought it was so awful they couldn't say anything for fear of offending me and damaging our friendship. Which makes me feel bad about my writing. So I've stopped doing that.

JSDR said:

I think it's more awkward when I ask friends to read my stuff and they never get back to me about it. Then I'm left to wonder if they thought it was so awful they couldn't say anything for fear of offending me and damaging our friendship. Which makes me feel bad about my writing. So I've stopped doing that.

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I hate that. Friends who either never read it, or read it and say, "Yeah, it was really good." "Umm, well, what could I do to make it better?" "I dunno, you're the author."

That's the problem I have with my GF. She feels like I know more than her about writing so she can't tell me anything to improve on. I get "It was good!" Why? How? Any bad parts? "Shrug".

You can ask her to crit the War parts from a factual and/or realistic POV only. And leave whether the story is engaging and such to other betas. Perhaps that method would make both of you more comfortable.

As for the others who have friends/family who are reluctant to provide feedback, ask them to jot down where they skipped a part or felt like it or when their mind wondered. In short, ask them to provide their opinion as a reader not as a writer.

Most of them are probably not writers and they can't tell you the reason something is off, but they can certainly tell you where the story lagged for them.

If you have a friend who wants to read it, there's no harm. Just don't rely on that friend for crits. They don't like insulting their friends, but might be of some use for grammar/punctuation errors.

Belle_91 said:

I was wondering, has anyone had a friend that they know personally beta read their story? Is it awkward when they say something harsh and you run into them? Is it just bad to do that all together?

Thanks.

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It depends on the person and your relationship with them.

My beta is one of my very best friends, but she is BRUTAL. she doesn't let me away with anything, and she pulls up every single bit of sloppy writing. I trust her and I trust her judgement, and it doesn't impact on our friendship. I don't know what it would be like with someone else though

I actually have one of my best friends read as I go (it helps with the moral support). She tells me what she thinks about the plot and she helps me put things into perspective. Once I am done and after my first edit, she will go through it again. She is what I would call "brutally honest" but that´s also why I like her so I know it will not only be praised but constructive criticism. Knowing myself, I may get upset for a few seconds but I know my work will not be perfect from the get-go so I am looking forward to her views.
If your friend is really a specialist you could definitely try it out but if you feel uncomfortable about the feedback on your writing from that person, maybe you can just ask for views on the historical elements (does this seem credible?). You could then have another beta for the plot/writing...
In any case, good luck and keep us updated

I would use your friend to check out the historical plausibility of your story. Unless you would use her as a beta anyway (i.e. even if she wasn't an expert) I wouldn't ask her to beta, or even give her the whole book to read.

I'm assuming it is a book, of course - if it is a short story, I'd be more inclined to give her the whole lot to read for comments even if I wasn't entirely comfortable with her as a beta.

Edit: I don't have any problem with a beta being a close friend...I'm married to mine.

You need to consider the personalities involved. I don't take feedback personally and I'm a very laid-back person, so being critiqued by friends isn't an issue. I'm often chatting to my critique partner on IM when I read the critiques, as I don't need a cool down period.

If you're the sort of person prone to getting angry and taking a long time to calm down, you will find it awkward and might destroy friendships.

It's one of those times when you need to be honest with yourself about whether you'd be okay with it.

JSDR said:

I think it's more awkward when I ask friends to read my stuff and they never get back to me about it. Then I'm left to wonder if they thought it was so awful they couldn't say anything for fear of offending me and damaging our friendship. Which makes me feel bad about my writing. So I've stopped doing that.

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This has happened to me many times. I won't ever ask friends or family to read what I write again. It's not like I give them a lot to read, just a few pages. If it's not your forte, fine, tell me. Silence hurts more than saying anything at all.

From the other side of the fence: I beta for JeanneTGC in all her genres, under all her names. I have also betaed for a couple of others here on AW.

J doesn't think I'm brutal, but she does know that I'm honest. I'm not a writer, so I don't know the technical stuff(what's an em dash?), but I do know when something doesn't work for me, and sometimes why. I'm also nitpicky on historical detail.

One of the others would think I'm brutal (marking out 5-8 pages of ms in hard copy and writing NO NO NO across them in big letters might have something to do with that).

The third would probably think I made thoughtful comments, although she probably thinks I'm a slacker because I have had one of her ms for almost a year and am about 50 pages from the end. Sometimes RL just gets in the way.

MM

Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting0

I hand most of my chapters to my Mom. Since she's retired English teacher and a huge reader, she's excellent at grammar etc. What she isn't good at is the whole picture. So, having your Mom read will probably help the details, but you may want someone else to look at the whole thing.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

These are my experiences with friends and family reading my work:

Mom:
Kitty,are you well? Chile,is this-LAWD! I will throw some annointing oil on you right quick.

Brother #1
What the fuck is this? When you blow up,I want a trip to Jamaica for reading this crazy shit.Your Black card is gonna get pulled for writing this mess,sis.

Brother #2
Where are the naked chick descriptions? I ain't here for the plot,you know.

Brother #3
I like it. But it makes no sense. What is this about? Where did this character come from? Are you aware that you are insane?

Cousin Aka Best Friend
I don't like it. Do this part over. Read this again and tell me how this makes any sense. Were you high when you wrote this?

Out of all of them,my cousin is the best. She has an eye for plot holes and grammar that has been a serious help to me. Plus,she is incapable of tact.She tells me the raw truth,lol.

The awkwardness will probably be more on their part than yours.

M. Scott said:

don't rely on that friend for crits. They don't like insulting their friends

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This looks most like my experience, unless you have friends who are fellow writers or editors. I referred a comic book writer who was aiming at teenage girls to three of my teenage girl cousins, and they read every word carefully, gave him almost all positive feedback to his face, and then carried on and on about its faults once he was out of hearing distance.

It really depends on the person and the agreement you have with them.

I used to have a beta reader who was a friend, and she was the best I've had to date. But that was because she knew what she was doing and we were both comfortable with the dynamic. She'd beta-read for people before, is a writer herself, and wasn't uncomfortable about being honest. If anything, I think the fact that we're friends helped, because we could communicate well.

With friends and family who aren't writers, I've found that they're generally not as good as all-round betas. Whether or not they can give good feedback as readers depends on the person.

I think there may be more potential for it to be awkward for the friend than for the writer. A lot of us are used to criticism to some extent, but our friends may not be used to giving it. I also think it's natural to worry about someone's reaction when you give them criticism.

In your case, if you really want to ask this gal for help, I'd probably ask specifically for input on the historical accuracy. That's what you really want from her, and I think that's most likely to get good results. I think people are often more comfortable advising on areas of expertise like this, where they can give more objective feedback, than they are with giving more subjective critiques. Especially if they aren't writers or editors or anything.

My most relied-on reader is a personal friend, not another writer. I hang out with her, I've known her well since elementary school, we were bridesmaids in each other's weddings, etc.

It works out great for me, because I genuinely want to hear criticism of my work. It makes me a better writer to know where my weak points are. And I trust her opinion of my weak and strong points. It doesn't bother me when she gets a little harsh. I get excited to fix what she's pointed out to me. I'm grateful to her for the help, and no matter how much she's criticized my writing, it's never effected our friendship.

But I think how you will react depends on your general reaction to criticism. If you tend to be hurt by critiques for a while before you let them take effect, then it may be better to steer clear. You may not be able to separate your writer-self from your friend-self and keep the hurt feelings out of the friendship.

Depends on you!

I'm another in the "depends on your relationship with the person" group. However, if the person is not an experienced writer or experienced critter, and you take the attitude that the crit comments will be viewed cautiously, then you'd better take all of the praise just as cautiously.

My #1 (by age) daughter is one of my readers. She isn't a writer, but she's a voracious reader. She gives feedback concerning the story flow, plot issues, character inconsistencies, character sympathy, and things like that. She also will not hesitate to tell me when something stinks.

No matter who reads my stories, if someone doesn't understand what I'm trying to say, even though I felt I presented it in the clearest way possible, I never take the attitude that the reader just missed what I was trying to say until I first re-analyze that part to make sure I really did say it in a plain and understandable manner. If a reader is confused by a part of my story, it's likely the fault is mine, not the readers, and I'll not change my mind on that until I take a very critical look at that part of the story.,

Belle_91 said:

Alright, so I know this woman who really knows Revolutionary War History. She reenacts, and I also think she's one of the few who actually knows what she's talking about.

However, I know her personally. She's not my best friend or anything, but I do see her from time to time.

I was wondering, has anyone had a friend that they know personally beta read their story? Is it awkward when they say something harsh and you run into them? Is it just bad to do that all together?

Thanks.

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A lot will depend on you and, to a lesser extent, your friend....

if they say something harsh, will it make life difficult for YOU later? we can't really answer that, because criticism that may make one person wilt another may simply shrug off and ignore, and may make a third even more determined to fix things.

Specifically ask for feedback on the historical aspects of the book. That plays to her expertise and should make her more comfortable about the task -- probably flattered, one hopes enthusiastic. Most people like to have their special knowledge acknowledged and valued.

Then, whatever she says about the book, smile and thank her and perhaps provide a service in return or a token of gratitude. This is how you keep ALL betas happy.

I'm also in the depends on the personality group.
I'm letting my boyfriend and one of my close friend beta. Both are honest with me on plot, characters and voice of my work. They know that it helps me a lot more than just "it's good."