Creatures most Dire

Ardent Kat · Nov 1, 2011

I'm interested in people's perceptions of "dire" creatures in fantasy stories. The popular current example might be the dire wolves from George R. R. Martin's ASOIAF series.

What other books have you read with dire animals? I've read several books with dire wolves, but I can't remember reading about dire camels or dire beavers, for instance.

The D&D Monster Manual lists all kinds of creatures with the "dire" prefix, usually meaning it's the much larger nastier version of its 'normal' animal counterpart. Was this whole "dire" creature thing started by Dungeons and Dragons or was that just what popularized it?

If you read a fantasy novel that mentions a dire bear for instance, what would you as a reader assume that "dire" implied? Sheer size only? Other unusual characteristics or markings? Is it its own separate species of bear or is it a mutation that could be born from a 'normal' bear mother?

I'm interested in the opinions of fantasy enthusiasts in particular, not people who never read the genre. Do you think dire creatures are cool in fantasy books, bringing some extra spice to the menagerie real-life creatures, or is this a tired trope?

Mr Flibble · Nov 1, 2011

Neverwinter Nights had dire badgers, which were larger and more vicious than normal ones.

I think you've got a load of leeway on the separate species/mutation thing. It could work either way, and I don't think there's a definitive.

Your original Dire Wolves were actually a species that died out iirc, but it's been co opted, so I say have at it and have fun

maxmordon · Nov 1, 2011

Interesting the "Dire" bit, in the Spanish translations of George R. R. Martin books instead of using Spanish for a Dire Wolf with would render him as "Terrible Wolf" so instead of Dire Wolf, a type of wolf that existed during the ice age, the sigil of the House Stark is called a Warg Wolf. Sorry, I know this is not related with this topic but I think it's interesting and helps a bit.

I perceive "Dire" to be more savage or diabolical than regular creatures rather than size, like a stray dog that cannot simply be tamed. I could easily see a Boar being a Direswine and a rat a Diremouse but not a Capybara being a Direhamster, for example.

thomas86 · Nov 1, 2011

I think it's open to interpretation...

just like elves and orcs are described differently depending on the author, i think you can get away with making "dire" mean what you want it to mean.

I always picture it as some bigger, badder version of the animal.

BTW, D&D didn't invent the direwolf... it's actually a real species that went extinct. There's even a reference to them in a Grateful Dead song from the 70's.

elflands2ndcousin · Nov 1, 2011

Interestingly, the dire wolf (canis dirus) was an actual real-life species of prehistoric wolf. Check out the Wikipedia article.

However, as a long-time reader of fantasy I read "dire whatever" as implying something larger and nastier than its generic namesake. Within reason.

I'd buy a "dire wolf" or a "dire cat" but "dire beaver" or "dire ground sloth" would be a hard sell. Mainly because it is tough to imagine a beaver as particularly nasty.

From a purely linguistic standpoint, I think "dire wolf" works because it lets me project my own image of "dire" onto a generic namesake. A "dire lion" or a "dire wolverine" strikes me as a weaker name for a fantastical creature because "lion" or "wolverine" is so specific as to lessen the connotations of "dire". It's the difference between seeing a monstrous shadow on the wall, and actually seeing what casts the shadow.

I'd say feel free to use "dire" as a prefix for whatever fantastical creature you want, but use it advisedly. And keep the noun you use for the creature generic ("dire wolf", "dire cat", "dire bird" rather than "dire lion", "dire eagle", or "dire wolverine").

Hope this helps!
Chris

Mr Flibble · Nov 1, 2011

elflands2ndcousin said:
"dire beaver" or "dire ground sloth" would be a hard sell. Mainly because it is tough to imagine a beaver as particularly nasty.

Chris

With those teeth? Are you kidding? If they became carnivorous....

Canotila · Nov 1, 2011

I could buy "dire eagle" as being a creature. Dire bird sounds weird to me. That'd be like saying dire mammal vs. dire wolf. It think some animal names look weird paired with dire. It's more the sound of the two words together being weird than it is the idea of that animal being dire. Like dire chimpanzee, vs. dire ape (though ape is more generic).

Personally I equate the term with meaning a creature bigger and possibly nastier than the normal kind, since that's one way real life dire wolves were different than modern wolves. I can't remember reading any books with animals aside from dire wolves. World of Warcraft has dire animals in their game. I think they've got bears, lions, and bats, among others.

thothguard51 · Nov 1, 2011

While I love D&D, I have to say that some of the creatures go way overboard with what I could believe, or used in my groups. A dire rat does not work for me any more than a were rat or were beaver. To me, that's crossing a line from a fantasy story to comic book stuff. (Nothing wrong with that if you are writing comics...)

Dire wolf works because it was a real creature, just like a Saber Tooth Tiger was real and used a lot by Burroughs as were Giant Sloths, not dire sloths.

Within my own work, I don't call my larger than average wolves dire, they are Shadow Stalkers and my beta readers don't have a problem with the term. In Stephen Donaldson books, his dire like wolves are called Kresh, (giant, savage, yellow brown wolves), and it worked for me...

jjdebenedictis · Nov 1, 2011

A dire ape? Hmm. That'd be us humans, basically.

BigWords · Nov 1, 2011

Dire Chihuahua?

Smiling Ted · Nov 1, 2011

BigWords said:
Dire Chihuahua?

I imagine that would be a beagle.

Smiling Ted · Nov 1, 2011

Oh, and...
Just slapping a prefix on something won't make it more terrible in your story.
Try to imagine and understand the type of fear it inspires in your characters, and base its name on that.

thothguard51 · Nov 1, 2011

a were slug....

RichardFlea · Nov 1, 2011

Dire straights. That sums it up for me. A bigger nastier version of an 80's rock band!

Why not invent your own name? Shadow wolf or death wolf has far nastier conotations to me than dire. I would have more fear of a Terminator Worm than a dire worm. The Terminator Worm will be back.

Filigree · Nov 1, 2011

In the mms I'm currently querying, there's a big, fast reptile with fireproof camouflage skin and really horrible acid spit. The humans call them 'rock-dragons'. The non-human natives call them 'namurakka', or 'unresting jaws'. What makes them beyond nasty is that they're an endangered species on a sentient planet that likes them, so anyone killing off too many of the beasties can end up with a volcano in their backyard.

defcon6000 · Nov 1, 2011

thothguard51 said:
a were slug....

Isn't that a leech?

I realized I've never read a 'dire' creature in SF...are there any dire aliens?

BigWords · Nov 1, 2011

defcon6000 said:
are there any dire aliens?

Dire Wraiths in Marvel Comics.

dogfacedboy · Nov 2, 2011

I definitely view 'dire-whatever' as larger and meaner than the norm. But I also definitely view it as a separate species rather than a mutation. I can't say that I remember ever reading of other dire creatures, but I don't think I would assume any special characteristics other than size and aggressiveness.

That said, I find dire creatures kind of disappointing in fantasy. You have an entire world to create and all you can do is come up with a normal creature, just bigger? I mean, if the situation is right - post-nuclear-holocaust radiocative dire ferret - then it's okay. But if you must use a normal animal, do something to at least give it a fantasy name. (I feel like I've read the word 'Koden' for oversized bear before, but I can't remember where.) I always imagine a warg in a much more imposing and impressive way than I do a dire wolf.

maxmordon · Nov 2, 2011

Something I would like to see more is animals taken and put in different contexts, like what would have happened if we had bred ostriches for riding or if we had never tame cats, for example. In real life, you see it in the llama, raised to give wool since and the chihuahua which was raised, as far as I heard, for food.

Kindness · Nov 2, 2011

I normally picture them as bigger, meaner and more disgusting. For example, a dire wolf (in my mind) would be huge, shaggy and mangy with wild eyes eyes and froth spilling out from between its ginormous teeth. It would also be smarter than a normal wolf, but more selfish (so dire wolves might fight for food but would help each other take down more difficult meals -- and then they'd start squabbling over the carcass).

A dire bear would be quite cool, imo. I picture a huge bear with weirdly coloured eyes. I can imagine it pushing aside a small tree to look at you and then charging out to try and eat you.

areteus · Nov 2, 2011

One thing to consider... the word 'dire' also refers to something being awful. As in 'that film was dire'. It is sometimes hard for me to read the term 'dire wolf' and not think 'that's a really shoddy wolf'

Jess Haines · Nov 2, 2011

I believe Magic: the Gathering (*hoists flag of nerdery*) had cards for dire wolves, dire rats, dire boars, and dire badgers.

And I know I've read at least one book with dire rats, and another with dire boars.

*shrug*

Liosse de Velishaf · Nov 2, 2011

I first heard of dire wolves as an actual species, and not as a D&D monster or something similar, so I'm biased towards thinking "dire bear" sounds silly. I understand why people use the word like that, but it still annoys me.

Dave Hardy · Nov 2, 2011

The dire armadillo! That beast could get through a lot of Lone Star tallboys.

Mara · Nov 2, 2011

The dire wolf is a real animal, and it was also a monster in D&D. At some point, there was a monster in AD&D 2e that was called a "dire bat" as either its entry name or an alternate name. And then in D&D 3e, they used "dire" to mean a larger, meaner version of animals, and applied it to a large range of creatures.

World of Warcraft pretty blatantly took stuff from D&D and Warhammer, so I'm not surprised if they also had Dire animals.

But I think the reason that you don't see Dire animals other than wolves is because the idea came directly from D&D. It's perfectly fine to borrow from D&D, but most authors only do it after it's been filtered through other sources. (Likewise, White Wolf's games have probably influenced a lot of urban fantasy, even though the White Wolf settings were based on other stories, especially stuff by Anne Rice.)

Creatures most Dire

Kill your television

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Penúltimo

Chris, King of Elfland's 2nd Cousin

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Sever your leg please.

A Gentleman of a refined age...

is watching you via her avatar

Geekzilla

Ah-HA!

Ah-HA!

A Gentleman of a refined age...

Foo!

Mildly Disturbing

Geekzilla

Penúltimo

Back From My Self-Imposed Exile

Boldly going nowhere in particular.

Don't let your deal go down,

Clever User Title