Punishment for Fraud: More Military Contracts

Don

All Living is Local
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
24,567
Reaction score
4,007
Location
Agorism FTW!
Your tax dollars at work. No wonder cutting $200 billion from their budget is such a terrible idea. :rolleyes:
Hundreds of defense contractors that defrauded the U.S. military received more than $1.1 trillion in Pentagon contracts during the past decade, according to a Department of Defense report prepared for Sen. Bernie Sanders.
...
The report detailed how the Pentagon paid $573.7 billion during the past 10 years to more than 300 contractors involved in civil fraud cases that resulted in judgments of more than $1 million, $398 billion of which was awarded after settlement or judgment for fraud. When awards to "parent" companies are counted, the Pentagon paid more than $1.1 trillion during the past 10 years just to the 37 top companies engaged in fraud.
Thankfully, it's just little companies and isolated incidents. :sarcasm
For example, Lockheed Martin in 2008 paid $10.5 million to settle charges that it defrauded the government by submitting false invoices on a multi-billion dollar contract connected to the Titan IV space launch vehicle program. That didn't seem to sour the relationship between Lockheed and the Defense Department, which gave Lockheed $30.2 billion in contracts in fiscal year 2009, more than ever before.

In another case, Northrop Grumman paid $62 million in 2005 to settle charges that it "engaged in a fraud scheme by routinely submitting false contract proposals," and "concealed basic problems in its handling of inventory, scrap and attrition." Despite the serious charges of pervasive and repeated fraud, Northrop Grumman received $12.9 billion in contracts the next year, 16 percent more than the year before.
I guess they're just "too big to fail."

ETA: Hat tip to Reason's Hit & Run Blog
 
Last edited:

Diana Hignutt

Very Tired
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
13,324
Reaction score
7,120
Location
Albany, NY
Three words: Military Industrial Complex.

(Eisenhower warned us.)
 

icerose

Lost in School Work
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
11,549
Reaction score
1,646
Location
Middle of Nowhere, Utah
It's sad when things like this don't even raise an eyebrow anymore. It's almost like we expect our government to be corrupt and idiotic in everything they do.
 

Don

All Living is Local
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
24,567
Reaction score
4,007
Location
Agorism FTW!
How long would it take some Senator's staff to write the a bill?

"If your company is convicted of fraud, no government contracts for 10 years."

There, all they need to do is put a title on it.
 

clintl

Represent.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
7,611
Reaction score
603
Location
Davis, CA
I wish we could do that. The fact is, however, that there are only a few companies that are capable of doing what Lockheed Martin and Northrup Grumman do. That's why we keep giving them contracts. We'd probably have to look to foreign companies for the work if we cut them off.
 

Don

All Living is Local
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
24,567
Reaction score
4,007
Location
Agorism FTW!
I wish we could do that. The fact is, however, that there are only a few companies that are capable of doing what Lockheed Martin and Northrup Grumman do. That's why we keep giving them contracts. We'd probably have to look to foreign companies for the work if we cut them off.
In that case, if there's nobody else to do the job, that's pretty clearly an attack against the US. Up the ante.

"If your company is convicted of fraud, all officers will be summarily convicted of treason against the United States of America for aiding the enemy, taken out back, and shot."

Dambetcha the fraud would stop, immediately.
 

clintl

Represent.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
7,611
Reaction score
603
Location
Davis, CA
In that case, if there's nobody else to do the job, that's pretty clearly an attack against the US. Up the ante.

"If your company is convicted of fraud, all officers will be summarily convicted of treason against the United States of America for aiding the enemy, taken out back, and shot."

Dambetcha the fraud would stop, immediately.

When in China...

I wouldn't go that far. But I would be wholeheartedly in favor of tossing some high level executives in prison for it.
 

Don

All Living is Local
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
24,567
Reaction score
4,007
Location
Agorism FTW!
When in China...

I wouldn't go that far. But I would be wholeheartedly in favor of tossing some high level executives in prison for it.
Yeah, it was a bit of hyperbole. At least for now.

I wonder how many high-level executives (or clerks actually involved) ended up in prison over those fraud convictions?

Throw a few butts in prison, then if it still doesn't stop, we can up the ante. :)
 

Manuel Royal

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
4,484
Reaction score
437
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Website
donnetowntoday.blogspot.com
Three years ago, one of my naive hopes for the incoming administration was that there'd be a Truman-style commission on war profiteering, and some people would be going to prison, or possibly face capital treason charges. Nope.

(I also remember voting for a Constitutional scholar. Now we have a President who's asserted his right to assassinate anyone he pleases, including U.S. citizens.)
 

mario_c

Your thoughts are not real...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Messages
3,880
Reaction score
685
Location
here
Website
www.mariocaiti.com
What was that I was hearing before? Something about our desperation to find the financial resources to restore the economy? $1.1 trillion could create a few private enterprise businesses via SACIA/SBA grants and loans, rebuild infrastructure, and stuff like that. But we'd settle for the $398 billion, which of course these selfless patriots are willing to pay back with interest.

I thought not.
 
Last edited:

Don

All Living is Local
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
24,567
Reaction score
4,007
Location
Agorism FTW!
Three years ago, one of my naive hopes for the incoming administration was that there'd be a Truman-style commission on war profiteering, and some people would be going to prison, or possibly face capital treason charges. Nope.

(I also remember voting for a Constitutional scholar. Now we have a President who's asserted his right to assassinate anyone he pleases, including U.S. citizens.)
The second sentence in paragraph B serves to explain paragraph A.

"Judge not, least you be judged," to put it generously.
 

jennontheisland

the world is at my command
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
7,270
Reaction score
2,125
Location
down by the bay
Even if there were other companies that offered the same services, these guys would still probably the lowest bidders (granted they seem to be bidding low with the assumption that they can just make up the difference with false invoices, but still: lowest bidders). And just imagine the complaints about squandering taxpayer money if the government didn't award a contract to the lowest bidder.

Besides, wouldn't laws restricting how contracts are awarded be big gubment controlling the economy? Aren't cries of "there otta be a law" bad for business and economically restrictive?
 

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
40,775
Reaction score
5,947
Location
Some personalized demiplane
On the continuum of things I'd prefer, keeping money in people's pockets so that they can spend it as they see fit is better.

(Of course, that would be even BETTER if we didn't have a century or so of jiggering the game to make it so that a tiny fraction of the population controls the wealth, so that even doing my ideologically favorite thing would be inherently flawed)

Then after that, there is taking money and using it in a relatively sane and good way, such as making jobs, or giving people medicare, or building infrastructure.

Then after that, there is taking money and using it to make your dick bigger.

That's what the US government is doing right now >:V

(That's my angry face)
 

Don

All Living is Local
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
24,567
Reaction score
4,007
Location
Agorism FTW!
Even if there were other companies that offered the same services, these guys would still probably the lowest bidders (granted they seem to be bidding low with the assumption that they can just make up the difference with false invoices, but still: lowest bidders). And just imagine the complaints about squandering taxpayer money if the government didn't award a contract to the lowest bidder.

Besides, wouldn't laws restricting how contracts are awarded be big gubment controlling the economy? Aren't cries of "there otta be a law" bad for business and economically restrictive?
I've never heard anybody argue that fraud should be legal, and there are already lots of laws on the books against it.

As for contract restrictions, any organization, government or not, can set terms to be met to be eligible for a contract. Most organizations would probably be loathe to grant contracts to companies that have defrauded them.

A specific law that deals with government contracts is different than a general law that impacts all contracts, even those to which the lawgiver is not a party.
 

Don

All Living is Local
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
24,567
Reaction score
4,007
Location
Agorism FTW!
Then after that, there is taking money and using it to make your dick bigger.

That's what the US government is doing right now >:V

(That's my angry face)
Concise and to-the-point as always, Zoombie. :)

Lady Liberty to Uncle Sam. "You've already got three friggin' shotguns, two AK-47s, and a squad's worth of pistols. Do you really think you need matching machineguns to keep burglars out of the house?"
 

SPMiller

Prodigiously Hanged
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
11,525
Reaction score
1,988
Age
41
Location
Dallas
Website
seanpatrickmiller.com
I could complain, but my parents work for Lockheed Martin >.>
You can still complain. I have relatives employed in the M-I complex, and I often complain about their companies' close relationship with the federal government. Eisenhower, of all people, warned us a long time ago, and we ignored the warning. Now we have a large standing army and a massive military budget, neither of which, as WW2 demonstrated, we need.
 
Last edited:

Don

All Living is Local
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
24,567
Reaction score
4,007
Location
Agorism FTW!
Who said fraud should be legal?
I don't know. I even said "I've never heard anybody argue that fraud should be legal." Did you think that was an accusation? Sorry. I was responding to "Aren't cries of "there otta be a law" bad for business and economically restrictive?" by pointing out "I've never heard...
 
Last edited:

jennontheisland

the world is at my command
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
7,270
Reaction score
2,125
Location
down by the bay
Laws preventing entities from entering into contracts with companies that meet certain parameters are restrictions. I've never heard you promote the idea of laws restricting economic activity before. I thought the idea of economic restrictions was just all around bad for the whole free market economy thing.
 
Last edited:

Don

All Living is Local
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
24,567
Reaction score
4,007
Location
Agorism FTW!
Laws preventing entities from entering into contracts with companies that meet certain parameters are restrictions. I've never heard you promote the idea of laws restricting economic activity before. I thought the idea of economic restrictions was just all around bad for the whole free market economy thing.
Here's what I said:

A specific law that deals with government contracts is different than a general law that impacts all contracts, even those to which the lawgiver is not a party.

I have no problem with a law that says "To get taxpayer money, your company can not have been convicted of fraud in the last 10 years." It's the government equivalent of a private company setting their own policy not to buy from such companies. It's the government's job to protect my tax money against misuse, and I think that would be a law or policy that would contribute to protecting my "investment" in my country.

I have a big problem if the law instead reads "No company may do business with any other company that has been convicted of fraud in the last 10 years."

The second would be common sense, it seems to me, but not something the government should be dictating. I have the option not to own stock in a company that regularly deals with crooks. I have no such option when it comes to the government. They can take my money and give it to crooks without my say so.
 
Last edited:

jennontheisland

the world is at my command
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
7,270
Reaction score
2,125
Location
down by the bay
A law preventing the government from doing business is still a law restricting trade. One that overrides the use of what you called common sense.

You seem to have created a double standard because it involves your money.

Well, lots of people don't want their money going to abortions, health care for someone's grandmother, or a huge ass standing military that takes it upon itself to police the world.