Questions about book outline

ambiguous

New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
Registered
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Hello everyone,
Long time lurker, first time poster.

I've been having a friendly debate with a friend of mine who has been giving me writing advice. He suggested I come here to post this question...or series of questions :)

I've written an outline for a novel-length work of erotic fiction. It's inspired by events that took place during my senior year in high school and the following summer. I say 'inspired by' not 'copy-and-pasted' from real life.
The problem is that the central characters range in age from 16 to 19 years-old.
My advisor has informed me that erotica with characters in that age bracket isn't marketable.
I countered by pointing out books like Loose Girl, which depict illict acts by minors even younger than my own characters.
Now I wonder if this is a battle worth fighting. My advisor's response when I showed him the outline was, to paraphrase, 'ick'. Not at the content per se, but the age of the characters. He's told me (and even he admits this is a gross generalization), that the market for erotica is primarily gay men and women from their mid-20s and up. I don't know if that's true, but if it is, my book would hardly fit the target audience, unless gay men and women want to read about frolicking teenagers and all the drama that ensues from said frolicking.

The question I pose for the forum is this: Is a book about teenage sexuality publish-able?
I think the story is good. It's not a straight smut book, there is plenty of drama, betrayal, redemption and yes, love. Heck, there's even a little blackmail. Okay, a lot of blackmail, but hey, it's high school! 'You will never see a greater hive of scum and villainy...'

Second, even if it IS publish-able, is it, for lack of a better term, icky? Is it crossing a line that I'd be better off staying away from? I've tried switching it to college, but it just doesn't work. On the other hand, I have two other outlines that don't approach this topic, so would I be better off focusing my attention on them, instead?
 

Filigree

Mildly Disturbing
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Messages
16,450
Reaction score
1,547
Location
between rising apes and falling angels
Website
www.cranehanabooks.com
While I agree with you about high school being a hive of scum and villainy, I think you may be going over a line here, with the ages of your characters.

I know several 20-somethings who had wild teen years, and the CW Network banks on teen sex. But there is something alternately creepy and boring about older readers buying wank material featuring underage characters. Depending on location around the world, it may even be illegal.

I certainly wouldn't be the right market for it. 1) It's too contemporary, 2) any reminder of high school gives me a headache, and 3) teenagers tend to be rather clueless about sex, anyway. Drunken ignorance just isn't that arousing to me.
 

Satori1977

Listening to the Voices In My Head
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
5,976
Reaction score
662
Location
I can see the Rocky Mountains
There is no way you will be able to sell a sexually explicit book about teenagers to an erotica maket. Look at the websites of the big publishers out there- Loose ID, Samhain, Total E-Bound. They all have age limits in their guidelines. You might want to tone down the subject matter, and it could be sellable to a YA market. Check out the YA forum here, and consider posting this question there. Lots of YA books do have sex in them. But they are written differently than the sex in an erotic novel. Th focus is not on the sex, and it is a lot less graphic.
 

DiloKeith

Doesn't scare easily
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
621
Reaction score
110
Website
dilokeith.wordpress.com
My advisor has informed me that erotica with characters in that age bracket isn't marketable.
Yes, most of the erotica market won't take it, but I think a few will. While I see nothing wrong with it personally, having had a very active and interesting sex life in my mid-teens, the reasons already stated will ring true with many people. Twelve-yr-olds would be icky. Sixteen, an age at which we allow driving and employment, is not icky if handled correctly. I'm used to reading about teenagers in gay erotica - first times/coming of age, that sort of thing.

Alternatively, I like Satori's idea, but I know nothing about the YA market.
 

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
4,827
Reaction score
336
Location
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Website
home.comcast.net
There's quite a thriving audience for high school soap operas, but this audience is itself in the high school age range so they're not buying erotica, they're buying manga/graphic novels and stuff like Twilight. Young adult books can have sex in them, but they're not considered erotica. Maybe you want to write something more like this? If so, try the YA subforum, or whatever they are calling teen fiction these days.

Me, I like school-setting sex stories but I prefer a science fiction or fantasy setting so it's easy to say it's a university-equivalent academy where freshmen are 18.
 

dangerousbill

Retired Illuminatus
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
4,810
Reaction score
413
Location
The sovereign state of Baja Arizona
The problem is that the central characters range in age from 16 to 19 years-old.

Read the submissions guidelines for publishers. One of the least inhibited publishers out there is a1adultebooks.com , which publishes fetish, incest, torture, domination, etc, but forbids depiction of sex acts involving persons under 18 years old.
http://www.epuborg.com/authguide.htm

"WE WILL NOT PUBLISH Any sexual activity involving minors (under 18s) even if they are simply "around""

How hard to move them to junior college, ages 18-21? Although the level of maturity is bound to be different.


 
Last edited:

ambiguous

New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
Registered
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
the CW Network banks on teen sex
This. I blame the CW for my confusion :)

I looked over the outline this afternoon, and I could tweak it to fit the 18-21 year-old age bracket without losing too much. My only concern is that teenagers tend to make decisions based on the perceived reward, and on risk. This changes as we get older, and it doesn't take long. The main plot line hinges on a girl making a bad decision, and then stubbornly sticking too it. At the same time, there isn't much difference between 17 and 18, so, problem solved. Most of the real-life events I'm drawing inspiration from happened in that transitional summer between high school and college anyway.

My next question involves my (hopefully false) perception that the market for erotica is too segregated for the outline. I see everything as divided into categories: straight, bi, lesbian, gay, bdsm, and so on. My book has almost all of that, or at least undertones of it, as well as some romanticized situations that in real life weren't so great (blackmail). That said, will the Lesbian crowd get to the straight sex and be put off by it? Will the straight crowd get to the domination scenes and be turned off? Is this a problem, or am I over-thinking this?

Thanks for all the replies, I really do appreciate it!
 

Maryn

Baaa!
Staff member
Super Moderator
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
55,653
Reaction score
25,804
Location
Chair
In my experience--limited, to be sure--those students who attend their area's community college tend to be not only less academically inclined than students who go directly to four-year colleges but also less mature. It's not true across the board, certainly, but the social drama, dating scene, and all that is just an extension of high school for a great many, only with more alcohol and drugs and with apartments their parents cannot supervise.

I would think you could probably age your characters past 18 and set it there while maintaining plausibility.

Maryn, pretty sure this could work
 

ambiguous

New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
Registered
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
It was easier than expected to revise my outline. As Mayrn and others pointed out, there ain't much difference in maturity between your average seventeen year-old and your average nineteen year-old!

Instead of going through the 20k+ words I've already committed to the book, I'm going move forward as-is and make the changes in the draft.

I have a few more questions, if I'm not imposing too much on the forum.

There are two other outlines on my electronic shelf.
The first one is a fantasy novel inspired by 'Ella Enchanted'. (The most basic premise, not actual story elements.)
I think it's pretty good, but the problem is that I started it a few years ago. I was just having fun, posting what I wrote over on Literotica.
After five or six chapters, it dawned on me that I might want to publish this someday, so I stopped. I shelved what I had and moved on to other projects.
I'd like to return to the outline at some point, maybe after the one I'm working on now, but I don't know how publishers would take it, given the above.
What would you do in this situation?

The second outline is much darker, though it too is fantasy. It follows the life of a woman from early teens to adulthood. Being as brief as possible, I'm trying to breath new life into a Of-trod staple of erotic fantasy: the Succubus. Specifically, the events that lead the MC to choosing to 'sell her soul' and become one. There is a lot of other things going on besides sex; action, intrigue, love found and lost, and sweet, sweet revenge.

The question is the portrayal of sex. With the exception of one critically important character, sex is a tool, a weapon. When the female lead is a personified preying mantis, is it erotica anymore? Or has it become something else?

I've read fantasy with similar tones, just not with the lead MC, so I'm thinking there has to be other weirdos besides me who enjoy reading this kind of stuff.

Please, if you have any thoughts or opinions, share!
 

Maryn

Baaa!
Staff member
Super Moderator
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
55,653
Reaction score
25,804
Location
Chair
It's just one woman's opinion, but if the POV character is the woman who's predatory rather than aroused, I probably would find at most one sexual encounter hot. A whole novel of them, I'd come to dread those scenes pretty quickly.

Not that I insist on love or a committed relationship or anything. I'm just not turned on by sex as a weapon, although it can titillate briefly, especially if the willing victim is a submissive player.

But as I said, that's just me, and I may not be your intended readership.

Maryn, who should stop typing because she did something to her finger and it hurts
 

ambiguous

New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
Registered
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Hullo again.

I posted this question above, but I think it got lost in the initial debate. Rather than starting a new thread, I'll just re-post it here. I'm still struggling with the best way to handle this little conundrum I've gotten myself into. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
The first one is a fantasy novel inspired by 'Ella Enchanted'. (The most basic premise, not actual story elements.)
I think it's pretty good, but the problem is that I started it a few years ago. I was just having fun, posting what I wrote over on Literotica.
After five or six chapters, it dawned on me that I might want to publish this someday, so I stopped. I shelved what I had and moved on to other projects.
I'd like to return to the outline at some point, maybe after the one I'm working on now, but I don't know how publishers would take it, given the above.
What would you do in this situation?
 

Maryn

Baaa!
Staff member
Super Moderator
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
55,653
Reaction score
25,804
Location
Chair
I agree with Filigree (which was fun to say, BTW), that having given away a small amount of the completed work probably won't be an issue. However, I'd recommend rewriting the portions posted without looking at the first draft, and rechristening your characters. That way you have something fully original, though very like what you posted earlier. Nobody who does a search with a telling phrase or by character name is going to match it up to what appeared at Literotica.

Maryn, high-fiving Filigree