Amazon Writing Publishers Out of Deal

So,Amazon is getting gully,huh?

I don't believe they'll overtake traditional publishers. BUT if they start offering good advances and exposure,they are going to give them a serious run for their money.
But then,they might already be doing that. My knowledge about self pubbing is non existent but it is starting to look mighty interesting.

“The only really necessary people in the publishing process now are the writer and reader,” - Russell Grandinetti, one of Amazon’s top executives.

I strongly disagree. A writer who thinks they can produce a top quality piece of work living in a bubble is kidding themselves. Writers should be able to self-edit but we are also often blind to our own failings.

Removing trained professionals or even experienced individuals from the process will end up with Amazon churning out rubbish. Does he expect all writers to be responsible for cover art, formatting and design as standard?

As for Ms Davenport. I can't believe the article brought that into it. Since when does an author potentially breaking a contract after disparaging a publisher on a public blog turn her story into an example of publishers being on the run? What example are they trying to set? Read your contract and act professionally?

If Amazon offered me a massive contract I would probably sign since I have mouths to feed. As a customer, I'm turning away from Amazon. I don't like where their business appears to be heading and where it could potentially lead publishing.

I find it hard to emphatize with the publishers. Markets change, and if you don't change with the market, you'll go the way of the dinosaur. That's a universal business principle. Adapt or die.

AmsterdamAssassin said:

I find it hard to emphatize with the publishers. Markets change, and if you don't change with the market, you'll go the way of the dinosaur. That's a universal business principle. Adapt or die.

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Suggest an adaptation?

AmsterdamAssassin said:

I find it hard to emphatize with the publishers. Markets change, and if you don't change with the market, you'll go the way of the dinosaur. That's a universal business principle. Adapt or die.

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Right. None of the established publishers are adapting. None of them are putting out e-books. None of the bestsellers in the Kindle store are from any publisher other than Amazon. Oh, wait.

Torgo said:

Suggest an adaptation?

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Study the Go Rin No Sho.

Terie said:

Right. None of the established publishers are adapting. None of them are putting out e-books. None of the bestsellers in the Kindle store are from any publisher other than Amazon. Oh, wait.

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Just using Amazon as a distributor of their overpriced e-books won't keep them alive.

Alitriona said:

“The only really necessary people in the publishing process now are the writer and reader,” - Russell Grandinetti, one of Amazon’s top executives.

I strongly disagree. A writer who thinks they can produce a top quality piece of work living in a bubble is kidding themselves. Writers should be able to self-edit but we are also often blind to our own failings.

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A bit disingenous, your quote. The full quote: He pointed out, though, that the landscape was in some ways changing for the first time since Gutenberg invented the modern book nearly 600 years ago. “The only really necessary people in the publishing process now are the writer and reader,” he said. “Everyone who stands between those two has both risk and opportunity.”

What Grandinetti says, is that those who make the content [writers] and those who pay to read that content [readers] are crucial, in the sense that without the writer there is no book, and without the reader there is no sale, thus no profit.

Everyone who goes between the two [agents, publishers, editors, printers] has to take note that they do run the risk of being cut out of the process because they're not absolutely crucial to the process. So there's opportunity for them, but also the risk. A publisher/agent/editor must find a way to make their input crucial to the success of the book.

You claim that publishers, agents and editors are necessary, but there have been books published and sold without publishers, without agents, and without editors. So, while the book might ultimately benefit from the input of publishers, agents and editors, none of them are absolutely necessary in the way that the writer and the reader are to the process.

AmsterdamAssassin said:

A bit disingenous, your quote. The full quote: He pointed out, though, that the landscape was in some ways changing for the first time since Gutenberg invented the modern book nearly 600 years ago. “The only really necessary people in the publishing process now are the writer and reader,” he said. “Everyone who stands between those two has both risk and opportunity.”

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No, my comment addressed my quote and I didn't mis-quote. Yep, Amazon have editors and seem to think it's a play ball or disappear scenario for them and everyone else in the process. I believe editors are as necessary, or almost as necessary in the process. My comment does address exactly that. A writer without an editor is like a boat without a paddle IMO. So to disregard their place in the process of publishing as less than necessary is foolhardy. It takes one person most of the time to write a story but I believe it takes a team to produce a quality product.

AmsterdamAssassin said:

Study the Go Rin No Sho.

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OK, I'll retool our ebook business based on a 17th century manual on military strategy. Thanks for the advice.

So Amazon having a total monopoly on publishing is a Good Thing...

AmsterdamAssassin said:

A bit disingenous, your quote. The full quote: He pointed out, though, that the landscape was in some ways changing for the first time since Gutenberg invented the modern book nearly 600 years ago. “The only really necessary people in the publishing process now are the writer and reader,” he said. “Everyone who stands between those two has both risk and opportunity.”

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And snip to this point:

AmsterdamAssassin said:

A publisher/agent/editor must find a way to make their input crucial to the success of the book.

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Good points. That is what the quote says on the link. There will be more risk and more opportunity for the middlemen between writer and reader. And I do feel the middlemen will learn different ways to adapt, hopefully in ethical ways instead of ways like agents-as-publishers.

It's kinda exciting to see what will come out of it all.

Jodi

You can be certain that writers will be the ones who get hurt.

Writing is a very chancy business. Writers build their survival strategies based on and optimized for whatever the current system is. Any time the system changes, those survival strategies stop working. Writers suffer.

ios said:

Just have to buzz in here, because I love out of the box thinking. In fact, I'm a firm believer in studying things out of the box. I was reading the other day (I wish I can remember the source) that one source of creativity/creative solutions comes from doing that very thing, drawing from things not obviously related. For instance, I even believe some of Sun Tzu/Art of War can be adapted to business and such. In fact, I believe someone wrote a book combining Sun Tzu's philosophies and writers/writers.

So, I think it's a neat recommendation. And I'm going to see if there is a public domain copy of that book anywhere.

Jodi

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Five Rings is easily available on Project Gutenberg, I believe. There are lots of interesting lessons to be learned from books like that and The Art of War. But to be honest, when I'm asking what publishers could do to better adapt to a changing marketplace, just telling me to go read the martial classics seems a bit... oblique? Gnomic?

AmsterdamAssassin said:

Just using Amazon as a distributor of their overpriced e-books won't keep them alive.

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I've read from multiple places one of the reasons why the Big 6/big commercial houses price their ebooks that way is to protect hardbacks, where they get their biggest margins.

Not long after reading an article/ebook about that, I read a recent yardsale find, Who Stole the American Dream? by Burke Hedges; I read about the Swiss Watch Paradigm. What really struck me was what Hedges said in the example about that paradigm in regards to the Swiss's thoughts:

"This quartz thing is pretty clever. But look, if start making these quartz watches, then who's gonna want these big expensive 17 jewel jobs we make now. We'll be competing against ourselves (....) Besides, we OWN the watch business now. We're the kings of the mountain. Why mess with success? Let's not fix what's not broken."

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That makes me wonder that if ebooks are priced to protect the sales of hardbacks if the big guys are going to run into their own Swiss Watch Paradigm.

Jodi

ios said:

Ah, but I'm one of those weirdos who like adapting the unrelated stuff, like Art of War, to business and the like I guess my geek was piqued; not everyone's geek is the same ;-)

Jodi

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One might also imagine that someone like Torgo who's closely involved in managing backlist e-book conversion processes and developing best practices at a publishing house might be doing more than geeking out about it. Or reading three-hundred-year-old martial strategy books in hopes of figuring out how best to take advantage of current and forthcoming technology.

I liked this article in another thread, but I'll repeat something here I mentioned there because this the self-publishing forum and it's very highly applicable here.

First, this article is about Amazon's commercial publishing endeavors, not CreateSpace.

Second, there is a bit in the article discussing a self-published author who was offered a contract (she can't disclose details--highly unorthodox) to have her book edited and published commercially through Amazon's publishing arm.

She didn't get an advance. She's receiving editing and cover art and the title was changed, so she is getting services expected. She didn't disclose (can't) the royalties or anything, but if (and it's a fair bet, considering expenses) Amazon is offering less of a royalty rate that she got self-publishing, this is pretty messed up, IMO.

I really wish we could see a contract and at least see what their standard rate is. Anything less than what they're offering via CreateSpace is something I wouldn't be willing to recommend an author to take.

Essentially, right now they have the ability to offer a contract to any self-published author who is performing at a certain level (which they obviously know because they have the data). Yes, you'd get editing and what not, but if they aren't offering an advance and the only thing the author gets is the royalties, if the author is making less than the 70% they were being offered before, that's not right.

I don't mind the idea of an author going to another publisher and taking a lower royalty rate (especially if they got an advance...though I'd probably recommend only if they got an advance), but because Amazon controls both arms, they have a very legitimate reason to pick off the top sellers and pay them less--they make more money that way.

So yeah. I'm highly suspicious right now.

James D. Macdonald said:

You can be certain that writers will be the ones who get hurt.

Writing is a very chancy business. Writers build their survival strategies based on and optimized for whatever the current system is. Any time the system changes, those survival strategies stop working. Writers suffer.

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I'd put the word "some" in front of writers. Clearly, some writers are benefiting from the systemic changes and adapting appropriate strategies.

kaitie said:

I don't mind the idea of an author going to another publisher and taking a lower royalty rate (especially if they got an advance...though I'd probably recommend only if they got an advance), but because Amazon controls both arms, they have a very legitimate reason to pick off the top sellers and pay them less--they make more money that way.

So yeah. I'm highly suspicious right now.

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The cloak and dagger thing is somewhat suspect. But I think you are missing a key point. If a writer is making 70% royalties on their own, or X% with Amazon, they get more than art and editing. They get the power of Amazon's email blasts, ads and placement. That must be worth a certain percentage of royalties.

AP7 said:

I'd put the word "some" in front of writers.

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I'd put "most" in front of writers.

Torgo said:

OK, I'll retool our ebook business based on a 17th century manual on military strategy. Thanks for the advice.

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The reason Go Rin No Sho is still relevant today, is because it is applicable to more than just military strategy. Provided, of course, that the reader is able to apply the wisdom to their situation.

Alitriona said:

No, my comment addressed my quote and I didn't mis-quote.

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You quoted one half of a statement, and addressed that half while disregarding the second half of the statement.

I'll take Uncle Jim's advice.

He's actually been IN the game for a long, long time.

James D. Macdonald said:

You can be certain that writers will be the ones who get hurt.

Writing is a very chancy business. Writers build their survival strategies based on and optimized for whatever the current system is. Any time the system changes, those survival strategies stop working. Writers suffer.

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I'm sure you're right. But will they suffer more than the 'middlemen'? If a writer has rigid survival strategies based on the current system and the system changes, they suffer because they fail to adapt. However, I believe writers are much more flexible in changing to fit the new situation than big businesses.

Imagine the hell of Amazon gaining monopoly and bending everyone in the book business to their will, who will suffer most? The writers? The staff of current publishing houses? Agents? Free-lance editors? The readers?