I'm Sure This Will Be Contentious... What Would An Agent Do For Me?

MichaelZWilliamson

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What precisely do I need an agent for?

Background: My name is easily googlable, I have 10 books in print from significant publishers, I've guested on a documentary TV series, advised on movies. I derive my functional income from my writing. (I have a sideline business that mostly supports my hobbies and ammo budget.)

Since the beginning, agents have "not quite found" my proposals "interesting enough."

I've sold every word I wrote for pay, eventually, for professional rates, save one story.

The first agent was advised, "The editor has asked for the rest of my novel." Nope. They weren't interested.

The second was advised, "The publisher's taking too long on this third work. I'm considering withdrawing and shopping it around." The publisher did buy the novel about 8 weeks later (total time close to 18 months. It happens). Agent responded, negatively, three months after that.

On the languishing story, one agent politely declined that it was not the type of work she represented. That's fair. Another said they had no open slots. That's also fair. The third said to send it in...and it came back, because the address listed in the SFWA guide, and that I CONFIRMED BY EMAIL BEFORE SENDING, was long dead.

The next, one of the "most recommended" agreed to look at the usual synopsis and chapters, sent a "please send us more" letter to SOMEONE ELSE, who called me, and we unsnarled that (I got his rejection letter). Then, when the 6 weeks came and went, and turned into 10, I made a polite inquiry call, as I was invited to, and the assistant on the phone was rude and hung up on me.

Their rejection arrived the next day.

Meanwhile, I'm still selling novels and shorts at professional rates and better (8 stories this last year, including a novel, a novella, a PB reprint of a hardcover, three? shorts, an Afterword, a couple of articles, and some TV work), cashing the checks and living adequately if not in finery. So clearly, my writing is marketable.

I've had one positive response from a well-recommended SF agent, but at present, I've got more work than I can write, so we're on hiatus and good terms, pending time to clean up the mostly-completed novel I want to send him...when I'm not being sent advance checks on other stuff.

Meanwhile, any of the others could have had 15% of what I've earned, and, according to industry wisdom, more than that, by the value they'd add to the contracts.

I'm not seeing it.

The ones who are too busy or in different subgenres were very fast and polite in their responses. The others were, to be polite, bumbling. Yet they're all highly rated.

Since I haven't managed to deal with them, I can only surmise that they're just not up to speed on the 21st century and really aren't long for this world--I remember one publisher insisting I send a PAPER MANUSCRIPT. The only paper MSS I've ever sent anyone. I'm guessing those agents are stuck in that universe, not realizing that was 30 years ago.

DISCLAIMER: This is about my personal experiences, and I am not attempting to suggest new authors diss agents without cause. No, I won't mention names.

But what's the disconnect?
 

virtue_summer

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Not an agent, but I'm not sure what the point of your post is. If you're doing fine without an agent and don't want one (which you don't seem to) then don't bother. Nobody's forcing you to.
 

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Interesting post. Just goes to show you that rules are made to be broken, eh?

I don't know, so these are just a couple of possibilities I thought of:

Perhaps an agent could have gotten you more money for your books than what you received, above their fees.

And then if you have any books that you have not been able to sell on your own, maybe they could. After all, these days most publishers do not accept unagented manuscripts (unless they make an exception for those with a lot of publishing credits). Also, agents would have the ins on who was looking for what.

Wow, did they really screw up that much? :eek:

Thanks for sharing.
 
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Izz

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If you don't want an agent, then don't get one.

There's more than one way to cook an egg, and there's more than one way to publish. What works for you might not work for someone else, and vice versa.

The only constant is that money should always flow to the author.
 
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areteus

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I agree about the possibly more money thing and maybe also possibly getting rid of some of the clauses in contracts that many authors are not aware of when they sign. That is what agents are supposed to do - find you a publisher willing to offer a contract and then negotiate the terms of that contract to be more favourable to you (because, if the relationship is working right, favourable for you is also favourable to the agent as that 15% gets bigger).

Now, one thing that occurs to me is that you seem to have been submitting to agents and publishers simultaneously... I wonder of some of your rejections are due to them not wanting to compete with the publisher or wanting to have exclusivity on who it is sent to?
 

Katrina S. Forest

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Why would this be contentious? Agents make mistakes just like writers do. I'd be lying if I said I never sent the wrong query to the wrong person. I'll believe that the same mistake happens on their end from time to time. It sounds like you just got really unlucky with agents and hit all the right notes with publishers. Congrats. If you don't think you need one, then you don't need one.

Though if you've truly sold every word you've written, I do want to know where you've sold your other 100 posts, because no one's paid me a cent for mine. :tongue
 

waylander

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You seem to be doing admirably well.....
But, your books are not published outside the US, and maybe an agent could do something about that.
I wonder how comfortable you feel trying to make sense of your royalty statements and trusting that your publisher has paid you the correct amount.
 

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Here are a few reasons why agents are usually good for the writers who have them.

1) Advances received by unagented writers are usually lower by a good margin than those received by writers with representation.

2) Agents are seriously good at negotiating contracts in their clients' favour.

3) Agents take over a lot of the work involved with chasing royalties and so on, leaving writers free to spend more time writing.

4) But the biggest reason agents are really good news is that they sell their clients' work into territories that few writers have any hope of reaching, and usually in all sorts of formats too. You might manage to sell your book in your home territory: but those other territories, and all the subsidiary rights that an agent sells too, will usually bring in more money than that first sale and then some.

As usual, if anyone isn't sure what an agent does I advise them to read Carole Blake's book From Pitch To Publication. It's really interesting and very informative.
 

leahzero

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Good for you, Michael. You write genre fiction and managed to get published by some of the few big publishers that (still?) accept unagented work. You've proven that it can be done. Kudos.

But if you wrote, say, literary fiction or YA or something not easily genre-categorizable, I think your tune would be different.
 

Jamesaritchie

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I've never heard of a writer who sold books to major publishers, but couldn't find an agent. Yours may be the most unusual experience I've ever heard.

I've known several agents who would handle any book already sold to a mid-size publisher and up, and do so happily. And agent doesn't even have to take you on as a long term client to handle the contract for a book already sold. Small publishers where there is no real money is a different story, but mid-size and up, definitely.

But, honestly, if you don't really want an agent, there's no need to have one. It's a complete myth that writers can't sell their own work all over the world. What, do people really believe a publisher in another country won't take on a book because it has no agent? This doesn't make sense, even on the surface.

Selling foreign reprint and subsidiary rights is as simple as having a book the publisher believes will turn them a profit. Simply put, if your book is selling fairly well here, foreign publishers will grab it, with or without an agent. Agents have no special powers, no hidden abilities, no secret knowledge unavailable to any writer who takes even a little bit of time to learn how the business works.

Now, you will usually receive a lower advance without an agent (Though not as much lower as many think), but who cares? Until and unless you hit the big time, money is made from royalties, not advances, and if your book sells well, if the royalties pour in, you can ask for a larger advance on the nest book, and you'll get it, agent or no.

And you can always do as I've done, and as many other writers have done, and use an IP attorney, rather than an agent. It works well, and you don't have to shell out fifteen percent of your profits for life. An IP attorney gets a one-time fee, and that's it.

But don't snub paper manuscripts. It's nonsense to think a publisher or agent who asks for a paper manuscript isn't living in the 21st century. Paper manuscripts are still very much in use by many of the largest publishers out there, and I'll have to send out four this year alone.

Technology is great, e-mail and electronic format make for great convenience, but the vast majority of books are still paper, and many agents and editors still want paper manuscripts, even when they also want electronic versions, as well.

Go by the size of the publisher, by how many books an agent sells, and who she sells them to, not by your notion of what stopped thirty years ago.
 

Lady MacBeth

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I agree with the other posters. It doesn't sound like you need an agent. You're going well without one.
 

Al Stevens

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21st century? How about 20th? The last paper manuscript I submitted to a publisher was sent 25 years ago. I've published about 20 titles and 31 editions since then. Many to NYC publishers with names we all know. We used to use Wordstar files, fer criminentlies.

Maybe that was an advantage to writing technology books. I dealt with folks who understood it.
 

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Congrats on all your success, but maybe this should be moved to the Announcements, Events, and Self Promotion forum. :rolleyes:
 

Al Stevens

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Success is such a fleeting thing. "What have you done for me lately?"
 

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I've added a bit to the title of this thread to give passers-by a better idea of what it's about.
 

Phaeal

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Hey, the less agents you need, the more for us. Win-win.
 

Susan Coffin

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That's a great question, Michael, and not at all contentious. That's wonderful you have been so successful at writing without an agent. Perhaps you can tell us how you have been so successful without an agent. :D
 

MichaelZWilliamson

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I truly wanted an agent, and yes, I'd like more overseas content--I got one query from OS, but the US publisher wanted more than the Polish company could afford. It happens.

My last attempt was two years ago. I still have a verbal agreement with the one, for when/if I get around to that unfinished MSS. I wish they'd been more interested sooner.

On the one hand, it's frustrating to be a known seller and get "eh" from these people. On the other hand, I've seen enough contracts at this point I can cut a lot of stuff myself (forex: 3 book contract--stated refund of advance if any deadline missed. I changed it to pro-rated refund of advance on incomplete deadlines, not the entire amount).

My overseas sales are limited, OTOH, as electronic sales increase, that's becoming less of a concern.

I've noticed on the one hand, agents are taking over some of the editorial functions, because slush has become too huge for most publishers to handle (it takes time to type on a manual. Any idiot can process 500 pages on a computer and print...and many do).

This seems to be a poor division of labor. It slows acceptance for new writers even more.

Twenty years ago, I was advised, by very credible writers, "Build up a folio of short stories and agents will be interested."

My advice is, "Get a blog with 20K distinct hits a day, and publishers will be interested."
 

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Thanks for sharing. That makes sense, to get the blog following. :)
 

Toothpaste

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The blog advice is sound, as is writing short stories, so long as the author has the aptitude and desire. However, one can get an agent simply by writing a good book, having no previous credits and no connections. That's what I did, that's what almost all of my close author friends did.

Now of course, any advantage you can give yourself (like a popular blog, well published short stories, and connections in the industry) is brilliant, but if you aren't interested in putting your energy towards that - especially towards a form of writing you have no interest in, I just want to remind people that if you want to work at simply being a novelist, and make your talent shine at that, you can get an agent with having written just that. In other words, don't sacrifice precious time working on one thing, because you feel obligated to work on another. Only do the blog/short stories/etc thing because that is something you are also passionate about.

As to your situation, Michael - it sounds to me like you've answered your question. You'd like an agent for foreign sales. But as others have said, agents aren't for everyone, and if you are doing fine on your own, I wouldn't add undue stress and frustration seeking representation. Do it only because you think you will benefit from one, not because you feel obligated. Agents work well for a certain kind of person (like me :) ), but they definitely don't suit everyone. Only you can really make that decision for yourself
 
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shaldna

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It depends what you want out of working with an agent really, and if that's going to be beneficial for you.

There are some points to consider:

1. Most big publishers, and many smaller ones, will nto accept unagented submissions - think of this like them using the agent as a filter to cut down on the amount of truly awful stuff coming through to thier slush.

2. Agents generalyl have better contacts in the industry and can reach people that the author, unless the author is experienced, sucessful and well connected, can't - this opens a lot more doors.

3. Agents are generally able to negotiate much higher advances than the author alone.

4. Agents are usually the shiz when it comes to contracts, and they can spot contentious issues that most people wouldn't pick up one.


Now, if you are already selling well and negotiating deals with publishers, then perhaps you don't need an agent.

It all depends, but you sound like you are doing pretty well already.
 

Katrina S. Forest

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I just want to remind people that if you want to work at simply being a novelist, and make your talent shine at that, you can get an agent with having written just that. In other words, don't sacrifice precious time working on one thing, because you feel obligated to work on another. Only do the blog/short stories/etc thing because that is something you are also passionate about.

This. I'm not saying that writing a novel that wins over an agent is somehow easier than creating a blog that gets thousands of unique visitors a day, but writing a salable novel is the craft I'm interested in.

On the one hand, it's frustrating to be a known seller and get "eh" from these people.

You do realize how many people on the forum would love to have that problem? Just sayin'.

If you do want an agent at this time, then I don't see how your approach would be any different from an unpublished writer's. Your previous sales would no doubt be of great benefit to you, but in the end, an agent still has to want to work with you over the course of your career.

If you do not want an agent now, then I'm not sure what the goal of this post is.
 
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BrianJamesFreeman

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Yours is a very weird situation indeed, I think. I was able to get 60 agents to read my last novel because I had *one* major New York publisher just interested in reading it. Agents' ears seem to perk up when they could already be a sale in the works. ;)

If you're happy with your career without an agent, then I'd said keep doing what you're doing.

If you're not selling to Hollywood and overseas, though, you might want to look into agents for those markets. It's a lot of "free money" to leave on the table.

Good luck!

Brian
 

waylander

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My overseas sales are limited, OTOH, as electronic sales increase, that's becoming less of a concern.

I'm not sure this is going to address your concern. OUS readers often cannot download e-books if they do not have a US IP address (depending on who they are attempting to purchase from)
 

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For me, the answer is simple: I despise the business side of writing. I would love to have someone else do that part for me, or at least most of it.

For you, if you are happy with your current situation, then, of course, you don't need an agent. If you want to take it one step further though, an agent can help you.

I noticed that all of your novels are published with either Baen or Avon and that the last novel you sold to Avon was in 2005, before it became HarperCollin's big romance imprint. I know HarperCollins owned it back then, but I believe it operated a little more like an indie, accepting unagented submissions and giving low advances on royalties.
Both are reputable publishers, but I'm guessing advances are small and that the distribution/publicity possibilities were not as great as they might be with some of the big houses. (I realize that the big houses don't always offer much in terms of publicity either, but often just the name of the publishing house opens doors for book signings, readings, etc.)

An GOOD agent can submit to the big six, negotiate higher advances and negotiate more in terms of publicity. He or she can also negotiate foreign rights and film rights on your behalf. Meanwhile, you can relax and write more novels.

There is a price for that next step: about 15 percent of your royalities.

It's all about what you want.