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Undercover
10-03-2011, 02:37 PM
Whatever you do, please do NOT name any names, but...

do you ever get any bad vibes here at AW? Don't get me wrong, I love this place dearly and wouldn't want to jeopardize mine or anyone else's reputation, but sometimes things get misinterpreted either on my part or the reader's part. After all things could be read the wrong way sometimes. Or sometimes loud and clear and well, hurtful.

Whatever the case, I try to stay away for a while...and I do. Then the next day I peek in on my stuff and well, there some of it is again.

I've been taking a back seat to it all lately and now I am finding myself reluctant to participate. Maybe it's just me. I certainly know I have problems of my own. A whole shew of problems actually. I am beginning to think it's just me. Does anyone else feel this way sometimes?

Fruitbat
10-03-2011, 02:43 PM
Yes, definitely, and I think it is a combination. Sometimes something hits you wrong or too strongly, and that other person would have no way of knowing that. Heck, sometimes I don't even know it. Sometimes you hit their sore spots, same way. I think most of us consider ourselves rational and may not even realize that sometimes we're really not.

And then you are dealing with anybody who wants to sign up. Some people really are quite rude, blunt, know-it-all, bullying, aggressive, lacking in social skills, drunk, or mentally unbalanced. Either sometimes or all the time.

So, to answer your question, yes. LOL. *I have no idea why but this whole thing just cracked me up.*

Undercover
10-03-2011, 02:50 PM
Haha...glad you got a chuckle out of it, Fruitbat. I actually was afraid to post this. Good to know I am not alone in my druthers.

dpaterso
10-03-2011, 03:14 PM
That's the big problem with the internet... people say things they wouldn't dare say to you in real life for fear of getting punched in the kisser!

...No, wait, I mean, the big problem with the internet is that you're communicating through words only (and occasionally, smileys :)) and you don't see or hear the people you're talking to, their expressions, mannerisms, tone of voice -- which, if you were face to face, might reduce any impression of bad vibes/negativity. And it's a potential two-way communication breakdown... what you think you're saying might not come across as you intended. Everybody's different, with different thoughts and perceptions. Not to mention tastes.

What it boils down to is, some people will get you, some people won't. If they don't, who cares? Screw the internet, go get some writing done instead, that always works.

-Derek

scarletpeaches
10-03-2011, 03:21 PM
That's the big problem with the internet... people say things they wouldn't dare say to you in real life for fear of getting punched in the kisser!Round here, that would mean we were engaged. :D

Undercover
10-03-2011, 03:30 PM
That's the big problem with the internet... people say things they wouldn't dare say to you in real life for fear of getting punched in the kisser!

...No, wait, I mean, the big problem with the internet is that you're communicating through words only (and occasionally, smileys :)) and you don't see or hear the people you're talking to, their expressions, mannerisms, tone of voice -- which, if you were face to face, might reduce any impression of bad vibes/negativity. And it's a potential two-way communication breakdown... what you think you're saying might not come across as you intended. Everybody's different, with different thoughts and perceptions. Not to mention tastes.

What it boils down to is, some people will get you, some people won't. If they don't, who cares? Screw the internet, go get some writing done instead, that always works.

-Derek

Well put! Thanks Derek.

SP, you bring up a prime example of reading something differently.

Definitely will get some more writing done today and quit worrying about this non-sense. Thanks again!

backslashbaby
10-03-2011, 03:36 PM
Well, if you acted more like my characters, we'd be fine ;) :D

I think it may be because we are a bunch of writers, for lots of reasons.

That and that it's the internet. I'm so glad we didn't have it when I was growing up :D

CaroGirl
10-03-2011, 03:40 PM
Things are ever thus.

Strangers use their anonymity to troll or just be mean to others. Most people are helpful. Over time, you learn who to pay attention to and who to ignore. Why let a stranger dictate your mood? I don't. Let it go and move on to more positive areas.

scarletpeaches
10-03-2011, 03:41 PM
There are people on AW who don't like me. There are people on AW I don't like. This site's big enough for the both of us, and if any situation pisses me off enough, I take some time away because I like AW more than I dislike any one person. Once I've cooled down, it's all good.

And being 'forced offline' pushes me into the world of fleshpeoples, where I gather material for my next book anyway, so it works out in the end.

Smish
10-03-2011, 03:56 PM
Agreeing with everything Derek said, but also agreeing with this:



And then you are dealing with anybody who wants to sign up. Some people really are quite rude, blunt, know-it-all, bullying, aggressive, lacking in social skills, drunk, or mentally unbalanced. Either sometimes or all the time.


And that's precisely why AW has the "report post" function. The best way - the proper way - to deal with these sorts of issues is to click on that nifty little button. Or, you know, PM a mod.

Airing grievances in a public thread is not the appropriate way to handle things, and rarely does anybody any good.

Undercover
10-03-2011, 04:18 PM
I totally and wholeheartedly agree with everyone and everything said.

SP you bring up another great point. Not everyone's gonna like everyone. Same goes for in real life too. Heck I don't even like my own mother sometimes. (but that's a different story...lol)

Phaeal
10-03-2011, 04:28 PM
Every group I've ever been a part of, in real life and online, has had annoying people in it -- and people I've annoyed. Why should AW be any different?

In RL and here, I do the same thing. I study the annoying people until I have their individual patterns down, and then I enjoy predicting what they're going to say or do or write in any given situation.

As in "Oh, hell. This thread is going to make XXX get up on his/her XXXXX hobbyhorse. Wait for it, waaaaaaiiiiiiit -- and there he/she goes! Score!" *

Lemons to lemonade, baby. Or, as Mr. Bennet says, "For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbours, and laugh at them in our turn?'':D



* To preserve civility, one should not point out the predictable person's predictability but enjoy a private smile about it.

stormie
10-03-2011, 04:31 PM
In all my time here I've only put one person on "ignore." Then a few months later, took him off and all was okay. As others have said, it's like real life, only online you can't see their faces or hear their tone of voice to have a better sense of their attitude toward you.

Polenth
10-03-2011, 04:53 PM
You're never going to like everyone in a large community. And getting too focused on that is a bad thing... I've seen people who spend all their time shouting at the people they don't like, rather than focusing on talking to the people they do like. The result is they derail their own threads.

Devil Ledbetter
10-03-2011, 05:29 PM
There are people on AW who don't like me. There are people on AW who :heart::heart::heart: you.



As in "Oh, hell. This thread is going to make XXX get up on his/her XXXXX hobbyhorse. Wait for it, waaaaaaiiiiiiit -- and there he/she goes! Score!" I'll admit to having a whole stable of hobby horses, each a little more obnoxious than the last.

The one thing that really gets to me here is when people join AW and start threads or reply with comments attempting to earn money off of our members. Offering paid formatting or editing services, for example. It really, really pisses me off. As a long time member of this community I have benefited from the critiques, support and advice offered here, and try to share what I've learned with others. That we freely share is precisely what makes this community valuable. So when someone comes along and says to themselves, "Look at this community rich with writers, how can I monetize it for myself? Hey, here's my website for paid editing/formatting/bla bla bla" I want to punch them in the teeth.

I think anyone offering paid services for writers here should be immediately and permanently banned for violating the spirit of this community.

/rant

happywritermom
10-03-2011, 05:33 PM
I used to let it get to me. Now I get a kick out of it.
There are certain people who just love to debate and will do their very best to read the very worst in whatever others write. They thrive on it.
But keep in mind that it could be worse.
They could be part of your real life, rather than just your virtual life.
At least you can walk away from this.

scarletpeaches
10-03-2011, 05:44 PM
There are people on AW who :heart::heart::heart: you.Bleurgh. I feel all icky.

alleycat
10-03-2011, 05:47 PM
Bleurgh. I feel all icky.

Someone needs a visit from the Care Bear.

Undercover
10-03-2011, 05:48 PM
Bleurgh. I feel all icky.


Not to make you feel even ickier SP, but I'm going to share in that love...it's too hard to resist it.

scarletpeaches
10-03-2011, 05:50 PM
I hate you guys.

Devil Ledbetter
10-03-2011, 05:57 PM
I hate you guys.
Your current avatar reminds me of a Kewpie Doll.

Toothpaste
10-03-2011, 05:58 PM
LMC - I'm probably about to be one of those people you are complaining about, but I just don't see you taking this back seat as you claim to on this site. I see you taking all your anxieties about the publication process and writing thread after thread after thread about it. To me, I can't see any good coming out of indulging your insecurities like that.

Further I have never seen anyone treat you badly here. I have seen people repeat the same advice to you over and over and you not take it and then subsequently (like a day later) post a new thread on almost the exact same topic. And people showing up on that one and pointing you in the direction of a former one. If that's what you mean by mean, well then I guess people are just cruel here.

(okay, to be fair, nobody's perfect, and I am sure you have the odd legitimate reason to be upset, but I think it's a tiny bit offensive to start a thread about mean people at AW when every single one of the threads you start is met by extremely helpful advice and empathy)

But maybe, just maybe, this isn't about the other members here, but about you. You are saying others are misinterpreting your words, but I think you often misinterpret others. I truly think that every time you start a thread about wait times or form rejections or submission patterns or whatever, you are waiting for one person to come along, wave a magic wand and make everything all better. And no one can do that for you. People can only offer you pragmatic advice. And that's where the problem comes in. You don't seem to actually want to hear pragmatic advice.

My recommendation to you would to actually step back from this site. Or better still, instead of constantly starting new threads about your woes, join in the conversations others are having. On other topics. Try to take your mind off of submissions, as opposed to indulging every concern. I think it will make you feel less stressed. And maybe if you offer to help others, instead of asking constantly for help yourself, you'll see that you actually do know your stuff, and you can sit back and relax and not worry so much.

You have experience, you have writing skill, and you have been through all this before. You should have more faith in yourself, and worry just a bit less.

I apologise if this makes me one of those bad posters here. I'm truly only trying to help.

happywritermom
10-03-2011, 05:59 PM
I hate you guys.

One of my 4-year-olds pulled that on me yesterday when I told him it was bedtime in the middle of his favorite show (Recorded. He can watch it today.). I'll terrorize you with the same response:

Too bad because I'll always love you!! (minus the tickles).

alleycat
10-03-2011, 05:59 PM
I hate you guys.

Let's have a group hug to show SP that she's loved and appreciated.

Ari Meermans
10-03-2011, 06:00 PM
Bleurgh. I feel all icky.

Yeah? Well, get ready to feel ickier. :D

Undercover
10-03-2011, 06:18 PM
LMC - I'm probably about to be one of those people you are complaining about, but I just don't see you taking this back seat as you claim to on this site. I see you taking all your anxieties about the publication process and writing thread after thread after thread about it. To me, I can't see any good coming out of indulging your insecurities like that.

Further I have never seen anyone treat you badly here. I have seen people repeat the same advice to you over and over and you not take it and then subsequently (like a day later) post a new thread on almost the exact same topic. And people showing up on that one and pointing you in the direction of a former one. If that's what you mean by mean, well then I guess people are just cruel here.

(okay, to be fair, nobody's perfect, and I am sure you have the odd legitimate reason to be upset, but I think it's a tiny bit offensive to start a thread about mean people at AW when every single one of the threads you start is met by extremely helpful advice and empathy)

But maybe, just maybe, this isn't about the other members here, but about you. You are saying others are misinterpreting your words, but I think you often misinterpret others. I truly think that every time you start a thread about wait times or form rejections or submission patterns or whatever, you are waiting for one person to come along, wave a magic wand and make everything all better. And no one can do that for you. People can only offer you pragmatic advice. And that's where the problem comes in. You don't seem to actually want to hear pragmatic advice.

My recommendation to you would to actually step back from this site. Or better still, instead of constantly starting new threads about your woes, join in the conversations others are having. On other topics. Try to take your mind off of submissions, as opposed to indulging every concern. I think it will make you feel less stressed. And maybe if you offer to help others, instead of asking constantly for help yourself, you'll see that you actually do know your stuff, and you can sit back and relax and not worry so much.

You have experience, you have writing skill, and you have been through all this before. You should have more faith in yourself, and worry just a bit less.

I apologise if this makes me one of those bad posters here. I'm truly only trying to help.


I appreciate your honesty Toothpaste as you bring up some very valid points. I may post my concerns, but I surely don't boast my goals and accomplishments all over the place either. Granted, I'm not saying posting something your proud of is a bad thing. It's good to know there are successful writers out there. But since your casing my threads, I took a peek at yours as well and the majority of them are in G & A. Which some might see that as being brainwashed with braggage. It gets old after a while.

No offense, I wish you all the best...but to constantly post over and over again and not much anywhere else says something about you too.

CaroGirl
10-03-2011, 06:22 PM
I appreciate your honesty Toothpaste as you bring up some very valid points. I may post my concerns, but I surely don't boast my goals and accomplishments all over the place either. Granted, I'm not saying posting something your proud of is a bad thing. It's good to know there are successful writers out there. But since your casing my threads, I took a peek at yours as well and the majority of them are in G & A. Which some might see that as being brainwashed with braggage. It gets old after a while.

No offense, I wish you all the best...but to constantly post over and over again and not much anywhere else says something about you too.

Yeah, so, that's what the G&A forum is for. If you don't want to read about people's accomplishments, you don't go there. Unfortunately, there's no Whinging and Moaning forum so you can't weed that out as easily.

Toothpaste shares her insight and experience in many replies. She's always forthright, honest and helpful. I've learned a lot from her posts over the years. And I've read her novels, which are wonderful, btw.

Try to keep passive-aggressive insults to yourself. A tip: Anything that begins "no offense" is probably about to be thoroughly offensive.

Calla Lily
10-03-2011, 06:25 PM
I appreciate your honesty Toothpaste as you bring up some very valid points. I may post my concerns, but I surely don't boast my goals and accomplishments all over the place either. Granted, I'm not saying posting something your proud of is a bad thing. It's good to know there are successful writers out there. But since your casing my threads, I took a peek at yours as well and the majority of them are in G & A. Which some might see that as being brainwashed with braggage. It gets old after a while.

No offense, I wish you all the best...but to constantly post over and over again and not much anywhere else says something about you too.

What??? Lmc, have you read ANY of Toothpaste's posts? She is CONSTANTLY offering advice and camaraderie.

G&A is for reporting successes. People who read widely on AW know the posting pattern of members they converse with, and know who's well-rounded and who is one-note.

Disclaimer to the board: Yes, I know that was passive-aggressive on my part. I'm angry.

Theo81
10-03-2011, 06:28 PM
I appreciate your honesty Toothpaste as you bring up some very valid points. I may post my concerns, but I surely don't boast my goals and accomplishments all over the place either. Granted, I'm not saying posting something your proud of is a bad thing. It's good to know there are successful writers out there. But since your casing my threads, I took a peek at yours as well and the majority of them are in G & A. Which some might see that as being brainwashed with braggage. It gets old after a while.

No offense, I wish you all the best...but to constantly post over and over again and not much anywhere else says something about you too.


There's nothing wrong with having a rant. However, there is something wrong with starting threads in every single forum around here and making the same complaints over and over all the while not listening to the advice given. If you want to rant, keep it in R&D, but on the rest of the board I, at least, assume you're asking a question you want advice about.
And there is nothing wrong with boasting about what you achieve - it's what G&A is for.

I've seen you make this kind of knee jerk response before, and I've seen you delete it before the person concerned saw it (unless they had enough compassion to choose not to mention it and continue attempting to help; wouldn't put it past them.)

This response, right here, is why there is tension in your threads. My impression is that you have no interest in doing anything but hearing what you want to hear. I have no time for it, but that's just me.

Soccer Mom
10-03-2011, 06:36 PM
Temp locking to stop this from turning into a pile on.

Lisa, you need to take a good, hard look at yourself. Toothpaste is voicing a valid frustration. She has started a grand total of ONE G&A thread in 2011 and a whopping four threads in any forum this year.

You have started over 200 threads this year, a great many of them complaint threads. I'm going to give you a week to stop and think about your interaction at AW.

This is not a punishment. Think of this as a time of reflection. In fact, I will show it as a "self-ban" instead of a "time-out for my sins" so that others will not think you are in trouble. You aren't. You are, however, taking up a great deal of people's time and energy. Do some soul searching, some writing and think about your participation here.

MacAllister
10-03-2011, 08:37 PM
I'm actually going to step in, at this point, because there IS a problem here, Lmc71775 -- and I'm quite sure you are feeling "vibes" or tension whenever you post yet another new thread to rehash yet again the same complaints aired in your many previous threads that garnered pretty much exactly the same responses. You're wearing people out. You're wearing mods out.

So this is something I'm going to have to make decisions about: We have a community member -- a member we all care about --but who sucks all the air out of whichever room she's posting in, displays erratic and passive-aggressive behavior, reads other posts poorly or not at all, twists and distorts any responses she quotes, attempts to manipulate and control the conversation, and ignores any actual advice given, over and over again. This poster has successfully worn out nearly every mod I have, and that's a very grave situation. I've hoped for weeks that things would level out for this person, but instead, the problem behavior very much appears to be escalating.

I'm not quite sure how to address the bizarre and completely spurious response to Toothpaste's gently-worded attempt to help; I'm not even sure I should.

For the record: Toothpaste has a total of ONE post in Goals and Accomplishments, out of the last fifty posts she's made.

One.

This seems symptomatic of the problem I'm talking about, though. The truth wouldn't suit Lmc71775's need to marginalize and dismiss everything Toothpaste tried so very kindly and carefully to say; and it doesn't fit Lmc71775's need to control, distort, and define the conversation. Hence the manipulative and ludicrous mischaracterization of a fellow community member who is honestly trying very hard to help, to justify a brusque and immediate dismissal of anything said that LMC didn't want to hear. Yet again. It's a well-developed pattern LMC used to dismiss Stacia's advice, just a few days ago -- and if I recall correctly, Callalily61, before that.

It's deeply manipulative, disrespectful, and intellectually dishonest, to be blunt. And with this thread, it's finally all over.

LMC, I'm sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but I'm going to overturn Soccer Mom's week-long self-ban for you. Starting now, you'll still have reading and PMing privileges on the boards, but you no will no longer have posting privileges here.

You're not going to go on attempting to gaslight (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/power-in-relationships/200905/are-you-being-gaslighted) other members of this community any more.

I wouldn't normally be quite so public about this, but you've been having a very public melt-down all over the boards for weeks, now -- and we've *tried* to address the situation with you privately, but met with precisely the same rhetorical deflection strategies you've employed here, so at this point I think the community actually deserves to know that we have noticed, and we're taking steps to address a delicate and troubling issue as best we can.

You're welcome to PM me, of course, if you'd like to discuss the situation and my concerns in greater detail. (For that matter, anyone else concerned about the outcome of this thread is welcome to PM me with your concerns, as well.)

Leaving this thread closed.